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The Forum > General Discussion > I think we can put these stereotypes to bed now

I think we can put these stereotypes to bed now

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Into the leadup of the election, I have been hearing the usual countless parrot-lines about the various politicians, and of Australian Democracy in general, but three really stuck out for me; Independents are just pro-Labor, and Australian Democracy is "the best in the world" and "ain't broken" to warrant "not fixing".
What I find to be the absolute best outcome of this election is that it's making it really hard for the usual advocates to stick to these points now- if not outright debunking all of them.

1- Australian Democracy's non-brokenness; To be fair, it would depend on what it would actually take before you would consider a system 'broken'. Not getting into the political decisions that we may or may not support at all, or the policy made through partisan thinking (opposition broad-band), or even the Whitlam removal; but I was thinking, surely having NO government simply because the numbers between majors are close and the remaining members *might* pick a side, and can take as long as they want would be pretty close to "broken" don't you think?

2- The best system of democracy in the world. Indeed, so long as you don't count Switzerland, Sweden, Austria and in general, almost every parliamentary democracy in Europe in which if an election were close, or neither party would be in an overall majority, the parties are automatically merged, and they get things DONE. Have a look at any standard of living chart if you don't believe me. Had we have based our governance on any of these other systems we would HAVE a government by now- possibly one that might represent over 45% of the country this time.

3- The independents, after well over a week now, are STILL hung on which side they'll support. Surely if they were as partisan as people would believe they would have just picked Labor at LEAST a week ago?
The problem with this point is, were they to pick LAbor in the end (likely for the Broadband deal), many people will still think they were red inside.

Any thoughts?
Posted by King Hazza, Wednesday, 1 September 2010 10:39:10 AM
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Seeing as you asked. Any thoughts?. Yes, TOTALLY bored with politics.
Posted by StG, Wednesday, 1 September 2010 11:26:12 AM
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Yes Hazza, let’s go again in six weeks, the suburban eco warriors may have time to look past the undeliverable eco pipe dreams that drove them to the Greens party, to the deliverable fixed costs to living policies that will be immediate, costly and contribute nothing to cleaning the global environment. Got to get rid of compulsory voting especially seeing the left has indoctrinated the youth vote with warm and fuzzy ideals that serve a global master and not our population.
Posted by sonofgloin, Wednesday, 1 September 2010 3:16:38 PM
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How weak, silly and uninformed king Hazza those who say that are.
These three are just as likely to put Abbott in power as Labor.
Abbott however appears to want another election, and will use greens and these three if he gets it.
All three are ex Nats put in office by ex Nats voters who trust them.
IF they put Labor in power it may cost them their seats.
But who ever they put in it will be seen by blind fools as wrong.
I think they are doing us all a favor, my side needed the kick and if given the chance will get it right.
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 1 September 2010 5:46:28 PM
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Well, my point is we're one of the only democratic western countries that are incapable of forming a government because of something like this occurring.

And the independents seem rather neutral (and taking their bloody time). I'm arguing against the stereotype that they're actually pro-Labor.
Posted by King Hazza, Wednesday, 1 September 2010 8:07:23 PM
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I think it's a bit naive to expect that these blokes would jump into bed with either of the majors too quickly.

To start with they maximize their bargaining power by making both of then wait a bit. The promise list will be growing daily.

They did not expect to be in this position, so are taking some time to explore just what they can get for their electorates, & with these blokes, that is what they want to do.

They would not be human if they did not like a bit of time in the spotlight.

If they are going for the coalition, they will want some time, [lots of it I would expect] to rub their combined nose in the dirt.
Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 2 September 2010 11:14:35 AM
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There are many people, I suspect to the right side of politics pushing for another election. Why are they so sure that the numbers next time will be in their favour? If there was another election, it will be in different environment to the last. The swing in this election was mainly to the Greens, not the Coalition. It will be hard to say after this election that voting for the minor parties is a wasted vote. The community has been force to focus on politics. It will be a better-informed public if they are force to the polls. Many policies hidden, mainly by the Coalition are now in the open. Such things as Rental Coupons put the Liberal web site the night before the election with data of what they meant. Another month or so down the track will allow Ms. Gillard to settle in better. I cannot see any reason at this time why the Greens would lose votes. The three independents all have huge majorities. The Coalition’s action of handing their policies to the Treasury will mean a more even playing field. The parties having no money will mean that they will have to sell their policies. Slogans, mother hood statements and ridicule of the other party will not be good enough. The party that pushes for an election needs to move with caution. This could actually be a good election to lose.
Posted by Flo, Thursday, 2 September 2010 1:05:34 PM
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Very good points you guys- especially hope you're right Flo
Posted by King Hazza, Thursday, 2 September 2010 1:31:14 PM
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Yeah, I'm with Flo on this, voter swing was definitely to the Greens - both Libs nor Labor need to take note, especially Abbott.

As for myself, I voted Greens in both houses and if there was to be another election I see no reason to change my vote. Besides, the majority of voters who voted Green as a protest were mostly disgruntled Labor voters, so it is reasonable to suggest that another poll would result in a Labor victory.

Abbott may want to reconsider what he wishes for.
Posted by Johnny Rotten, Thursday, 2 September 2010 2:11:32 PM
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Belly, the complaining and whining I have been doing over the current Labor mob, and my sentiment that the party is a stranger to the Labor party I grew up with is echoed in the following from Kim Beazley senior. "When I joined the Labor Party, it contained the cream of the working class. But as I look about me now all I see are the dregs of the middle class."

I have been railing against the uni educated lawyers and assorted bludgers that hi jacked the Labor movement for years, and the generational change has not done the party credit. They wanted to be Liberal and they failed, so how will they track back to their roots? Get rid of the idea of a "Right" faction first, if your Labor you are left of center and friend to the working class rather than the well trodden descriptive of "chardonnay socialist" that as a joke title became true and relevant in this current crop of leaders.
Posted by sonofgloin, Thursday, 2 September 2010 4:03:03 PM
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Johnny Rotten:>> As for myself, I voted Greens in both houses and if there was to be another election I see no reason to change my vote.<<

JR, it's a democracy of sorts so it is your right.

Given that we should immediately pray for a benevolent dictator to overthrow the democratic system. We could then be assured that policy that advantages the nation would be implemented, if only to make the stature of the dictator grander, they seek adulation you see. The Greens have policy that comes from Europe and benefits the green Europeans who seek self fulfillment at the cost of the nation that educated and sadly fed them. I would be content if you stopped eating JR.
Posted by sonofgloin, Thursday, 2 September 2010 4:31:26 PM
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Sonofa do not disagree with you but.
See voting green in the lower house got one seat.
It in some booths was only counted once, those who protested did not make the vote count.
Labor has been infected with some middle class twits, but some great middle class leaders too.
Rudd had his greater love not been for himself, was one.
Not trying to be smart or hurtful but just know greens will NEVER BETTER THIS VOTE federally.
See do not get carried away less than 15% no more, including the anti Labor protesters.
I would offend many if I repeated workers fears about greens spoken in just this week, country people fear them.
Bob Brown tipped me over the edge my concerns are real and life long but his efforts to get in the way of preference deal sees me except for NSW never giving them mine again while he leads
I however an voting for them in my state and ALP will not get preferences, unless they call an early election and get out of the place soon.
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 2 September 2010 6:26:47 PM
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Belly:>> Rudd had his greater love not been for himself, was one.
Not trying to be smart or hurtful but just know greens will NEVER BETTER THIS VOTE federally.
I would offend many if I repeated workers fears about greens spoken in just this week, country people fear them.<<

Belly I agree, this is the Greens finest hour electorally. My issue with the Greens platform is that it is lifted from Greens Europe. The problem with Greens Europe platform is they only bring results if adopted internationally. When a single nation adopts the "pay for your prosperity" policies it stifles the home economy and does not impact globally. It's teenage wish list stuff, lovely dream but everybody has to play.
Posted by sonofgloin, Thursday, 2 September 2010 8:50:49 PM
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Well said room exists for a conservation party.
My view is both majors need a kick as they focus on winning majority's.
But my whole life is invested in a fair go at work for union members.
On reporting back to my party my polling in lunch sheds was clear Latham could not win a raffle I was rejected.
While I was sprouting an ALP victory here my polling said we had no chance.
About to leave, bit late but driving far and meeting many workers.
About 2% if the subject come up will not reject the greens are frightening, only about three in ten will admit to voting Labor.
IF a new leader comes soon for the greens, voters may take a generation to bring them down below a 5% base vote.
If this Parliament lasts three years strange is it may seem we will owe it to them but they will be further away from country workers,closer to city refugees in the bush but never close to average Aussie.
Posted by Belly, Friday, 3 September 2010 6:16:10 AM
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