I tend to agree with Bugsy. Prison is meant to be deterrent and a punishment as I see it and with some small hope for rehabilitation (which also crosses into the deterrent aspect). The rehabilitaive aspect is certainly debatable and I would suspect not possible for many too far gone.

Prisons keep dishonest people out of society so they can do no more harm and that is fine with me.

The death penalty aspect is it's potential to be politicised and used as propoganda which increases the probability of wrongful death penalty sentencing.

I don't think we should minimise the 'mistake' aspect of a death penalty or diminish it's effects not only to the family of the accused but to the victim's family and to the greater public.

PatTheBogan makes a great point about governance in relation to the death penalty and where in some countries the death penalty is imposed too readily for 'political' reasons, clearly demonstrated by the contrast in harsher penalties for smuggling dope than for terrorism.

clearly demonstrated by the contrast in harsher penalties for smuggling dope than for terrorism.
Pelican,
Drugs cause way more harm than the occasional terrorist. Let's face it it's drugs which cause so many to become so intolerable that some people simply say stuff it & take radical action. Then we blame those who take action & mollycoddle those who cause this retaliation.
Don't for one moment fool yourself into thinking that terrorists are necessarily "bad". Most so-called terrorist attacks are simply a retaliation. If you have a bad Govt then you can vote it out but you can't vote bad bureaucrats out with it, they remain & continue to cause suffering with impunity. They are the "real" terrorists not the bloke next door who is being driven to the end of the tether. I could think of quite a few bureaucrats who should be sent to Bali with some weed in their packs. Have you ever thought how many lives are destroyed by bureaucrats ? Are you aware of how many people are driven to suicide because of bureaucrats ? No one talks about this death penalty for innocents here.

@Individual, "Have you ever thought how many lives are destroyed by bureaucrats?"

Mate, come the revolution, the bureacrats are first against the wall! With you and me having our choice of spot and weapon in the firing-squad. I couldn't agree more.

@Pericles, the politicizing of the death penality is inevitable as it is with any issue...we're politicizing over it now. As far as the death penalty for dope, that's in Muslim countries and unless you're thinking that we're about to turn predominately Muslim and for that to effect our political decisions, then it's not a realistic point.

About prison being a deterrent...didn't you notice the stat I provided about at least 60% of murders being crimes of passion? Plus, you need to appreciate that there are entire sub-cultures that don't give a rats about "doing a bit of time". It's not a deterrent other than to honest people. It's certainly not a deterrent to anyone that believes they're so smart that they can get away with the crime they are committing, which is human nature, that we all believe we're smarter than the next guy and the system. How can it be a deterrent to someone that believes they're smarter than the system? Otherwise no-one would cheat on their taxes, grab a free train-ride or newspaper, shop-lift and the myriad of petty crimes that are perpetrated each day, let alone major crimes.

Rehab: I have worked in the system. Trust me when I say it is nonexistant. Fallacy. Not even the facade of it. Just in name only of the title Corrective Services.

Finally, I would suggest this...it's not prison acting as a deterrent that prevents us from killing someone else for trite reasons. It's our own sense of right and justice that prevents us. Most of us, regardless of society, are relatively peace-loving, which is why "society" works so well and survives on not much more than tacit approval with a little governance.

Individual
Well I do have to agree with you about the drugs aspect but don't see how someone like Corby can get 20 years while those involved in bombings are treated less like prisoners (some gaining hero status) and where sentences were reduced. I did not intend my previous post to imply support of drug peddlers.

My intention was to indicate the potential dilemmas in States where death penalties are legitimised.

Ignorant and self-serving bureaucrats may cause harm but so can ignorant and self-serving businessmen, social workers and politicians etal.

Plenty of people have the potential to cause harm but we as individuals also can choose what to do about that and how we respond. We can do nothing or we can use what we have at our legitimate disposal to ensure accountability.

It is a bit difficult though if one has been sentenced to death and can no longer fight on to clear their name.

Pelican,
no argument from me there. Yes Corby is extreme & I don't really know why she had the stuff. Apparently she still claims not guilty & refused to plead guilty to get the President's leniency. That should make anyone think. Were I this President I would pardon her for that stance alone. The Bali 9 are a totally different kettle of fish. They did it with the full benefit of Corby's publicity & clearly outline risk. I find it difficult to drum up sympathy there but of course I feel for the parents.

"it's not prison acting as a deterrent that prevents us from killing someone else for trite reasons. It's our own sense of right and justice that prevents us."

You're having a lend of the forum, aren't you, MC. So you are suggesting that a group of kids growing up in isolation would naturally form a lovey-dovey Utopia? More like Lord of the Flies I would think.

But I guess that is the way some think. It's all about "How to deal with them?" and "What to do with them?". Yes, we would all live in a perfect world unburdened with the law or prisons if not for "them".

Could I proffer the quaint ideas that no-one is perfect nor without hope of improving himself?