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The Forum > General Discussion > Independent 3rd party costings.

Independent 3rd party costings.

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Given that neither party trusts the other's costing, and with due regard to the partisan nature of treasury's past actions under Wayne Swan, I would suggest an independent 3rd party.

Possibly one of the big 4 firms such as Deloites, PWC etc, could be used.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Thursday, 26 August 2010 9:43:21 AM
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[Deleted for abuse].
Posted by mikk, Thursday, 26 August 2010 1:39:55 PM
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I've had enough of these independent dudes already. They're too big for their boots. I hail Tony for telling them to piss off.

I think

Julia is being way too needy in all this.

Let her win, and see how she handles her minority governmnet. Let her have the poisoned chalice.

Lets see how those independents in seats with 10% Labor votes handle the backlash come next election

Tony's costings probably don't add up, but who cares. Nobody expects a politician to keep their promises. It's irrelevant. Oppositions since the year dot have never had the opportunity to make costed promises as they don't have access to the books.

We need the AEC to start having a bit of power to legislate standards for elections. Each party has to scribble their costings on the back of a beer coaster and hand it in by the end of week 1, and there is a mandated 5 community forums each election at set dates. No political advertising allowed unless it's actually explaining a policy and doesn't mention any other party.
Posted by Houellebecq, Thursday, 26 August 2010 2:20:26 PM
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If the independents are to stupid to know that Labour has never produced a surplus and have squandered a massive inherited surplus in less than a term then they don't deserve Abbots time. To try and compare Labours economic management against the Howard Government shows they are playing games. Houellebecq is right on this one.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 26 August 2010 3:25:13 PM
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And what happens to treasury when the Tony gets into power.

If they cant be trusted now how could he possibly work with them in government.

Not to mention the hypocrisy of Abbott and his colleagues after the supermole Godwin Grech and his relationship with the tories.

I (and I suspect Labor) dont trust that one of the big accounting companies would anything but shills for the conservatives.

Do the right thing Mr Abbott and let the treasury cast its eye over your figures.

The only reason he wont is because he knows he would be exposed as economically illiterate and his parties figures exposed as fabrications.
Posted by mikk, Thursday, 26 August 2010 4:38:27 PM
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Wow SM i agree again, a third party would be workable though the main problem that Mr Abbott has is with the process of delivery of their policies to the Treasury.
The Act involved which currently slips my mind, requires the opposition to deliver the policies to the PM's office for handing over to Treasury. The lib's made great play of this for years of course but under the current circumstances maybe this protocol could be waived and the policies could be handed directly to the treasury. As for the whole leak issue well, that could just as easily been a liberal leak so they could whip up a storm and refuse to have the treasury do the costings. I don't have the faith in Joe Hockey that i had in Peter Costello, just because they are the same party it dosen't make their word good.
It doesn't look that good for Toni being so difficult, this is a unique situation and it would appear that he has the best situation to form government if he would just bend a little. It would be a great pity if the next government was formed because one side was just being difficult. This is the independents main thrust, openness, honesty and reform to the process.
Posted by nairbe, Thursday, 26 August 2010 6:30:48 PM
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I love it! the two NSW ones are the best, true they are loved and trusted.
But huge fun reading the slanted blind opinions, almost thought I was reading the Sydney Tele, kings of spin the comic book of written comment.
If the ex Nats, all three of them hand government to any side one side will tell lies about them.
I am unafraid of Labor in opposition, it will be a better party any way it goes
Love the balanced comment here, Abbott has no intention of letting us see he lied-in his costings.
Know some thing? hope he wins! he could not tell the truth in any matter lets see him do a Rudd.
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 26 August 2010 6:51:54 PM
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Disappointing that Abbot should falter at the first hurdle. I was looking forward to seeing more of a competition.
Posted by DreamOn, Thursday, 26 August 2010 9:54:35 PM
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The issue of this thread was that treasury's work is filtered by Swan and has lost the trust of the Coalition.

Considering that Labor have not yet kept to budget on anything, the best description of their budget is a wish list. The proof of the pudding is in the implementation.

How many surpluses has Labor produced ever. Zero. How has JG's BER compared to her original budget. - about 20% over so far and the costs are still rolling in.

Need I say more?
Posted by Shadow Minister, Friday, 27 August 2010 6:26:08 AM
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gee Shadow you were almost getting objective for a minute. Though you haven't noticed you have been continuously slammed over this BER stuff. You may well build a good statistical argument but you show the vision and creative imagination of a brick. With that attitude you would make a great liberal minister. Efficient, calculating but don't expect anything with vision or that might build up the portfolio into the future.
Posted by nairbe, Friday, 27 August 2010 7:11:50 AM
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Abbott's refusal to submit his party's alternative program's costings to Treasury - for 'reasons' that change daily - is highly indicative that they have something to hide. That he contravenes the spirit of Costello's Charter of Budget Honesty is classic Coalition hypocrisy.

I think that Abbott's stonewalling the Independents because he realises he lost the election and wants to force another one. Hopefully, it'll backfire completely on him and his cronies.
Posted by CJ Morgan, Friday, 27 August 2010 7:59:51 AM
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What a load of nonsense.

The Treasury stands as the impartial body and is not filtered by Swan as is implied particularly when it comes to costing Opposition policies. Government departments are at the ready with Briefs for whomever forms government without fear nor favour.

There was less fuss over Treasury's impartiality with the Godwin Grech affair and no concern from the Coalition then about leaking.

Please do us all a favour and don't insult our intelligence any longer as regard the real motives behind failure to share information on costings.

The people have already demonstrated their unhappiness with this style of politicking on either side of politics.

Kudos to the Independents - we need more of them to diffuse this adversarial style of campaign politics and more consultation with all members of parliament in policy making (as well as more participation from citizens).

Sheesh - leaks indeed.
Posted by pelican, Friday, 27 August 2010 12:53:37 PM
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SM,

Hark! what is that discordant sound yes a lone violin being played by an understudy to Arjay's paranoid solo recitals.

what's next ASIO and perhaps CIA, aliens control the treasury dept?

The truth is clear Abbott is playing probably playing cynical brinkmanship negotiation techniques. Claim victim to stir up sympathy in the independents electorates to distort the 2PP. Besides which JG in a Black hat and mustache with TA tied to the railway track with piano music is a Little unconvincing.

Personally I don't know why both sides policy costings aren't published.
Other than the current system favours the party power system.

After all is said and done it is our money EITHER SIDE are wanting to spend.

I maintain that a lot of the ignorant debate would be mollified if we the people could understand why the budget is a balancing act between competing forces.

I.e. Emotionally I can understand Bligh's asset sale and her demand that the LNP nominate alternative cuts.

How often have you heard an incoming party say 'well the budget is in worse state than we thought so we'll have to delay cancel promises we made during the election.

If we worked on a leadership with the governing party and disclosure on both sides wouldn't we the public have a better idea of our country's economic state. But wait that might preclude the simplistic 'easy fruit' scare and pork barreling campaigns. The parties might have to objectively explain why they deserve power POWER *POWER* (evil laugh)

If Abbott is on the up and up put the policies up or shut up
Posted by examinator, Friday, 27 August 2010 1:45:29 PM
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CJ, examinator et al,

Given that in the 2007 elections Labor completely failed to submit its costings, JG's and Swan's strident calls are just a little hypocritical.

As Treasury reports to the finance minister and not an independent 3rd party and given Swan's selective release of costing information on the mining tax and the selective leaking from treasury, only the most myopic of Labor tragics could claim that treasury was acting in an unbiased and professional manner.

The ring fencing of information in treasury for the coalition's costing is a compromise, and should produce results without Labor's manipulation.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Friday, 27 August 2010 3:36:59 PM
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If you can't get along with the nations treasury what hope have you got of running a country.
Let Juls Have the minority govt; [ sour grapes ] this ain't a football match.
Posted by 579, Friday, 27 August 2010 5:10:22 PM
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SM

Naughty Naughty Labor! Bad Labor...go stand in the naughty corner.

Feel better Now SM.

2 New (?) concepts for you!
1. Context. it's a little bit different wouldn't you say?

2. Two wrongs don't make a right ...Try telling a judge that you are your crime doesn't matter because some one else did it.!

But apart from that you still haven't addressed the real issue.

- TA is simply calling the independents stand and playing power politics as I described.
30 years of multi $1000000 negotiations and an understanding of the conservative political mind set it's simply wedge politics on steroids.
- Failing that TA is running scared that his policies are full of brown smelly stuff (i.e. BS)

He has painted himself into a corner if this tactic doesn't work and they back Labor he will cop it in the neck and there will be a dirty tricks campaign for the next 3 years and future elections to get them out.

To me this shows the real TA ... a zealot, power mad and not interested in the nation's good. If it works god better be an agnostic to help us. We'll see the same threat tactic played out in many different ways i.e. Do it MY (TA) way or else independents.

Either way the independents will be slammed and attacked continually by the clearly vindictive veggies in the Nats
Posted by examinator, Friday, 27 August 2010 5:50:56 PM
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*Posted by pelican, Friday, 27 August 2010 12:53:37 PM*

" ... Please do us all a favour and don't insult our intelligence any longer as regard the real motives behind failure to share information on costings. ... "

Well said *Peli*

..

*Posted by examinator, Friday, 27 August 2010 1:45:29 PM*

" ... Personally I don't know why both sides policy costings aren't published. ... "

In full to the public in advance of the election I would add ..

I can't stand the obfuscation and these gutter trolls running around in the shadows spreading lies and disinformation. Global Warming, Climate Change, The Stolen Generations, Asylum Seekers are all classic examples of where we see this kind of behavior.

Sadly though, within the confines of the tin pot guvment system which still presides in Australia, I suspect that the quantitative and qualitative analysts are telling the 2 major parties that the majority of Australians are simplistic bigots.

Thus, they try and split "us" in that manner, for example:

*Asylum Seekers* becomes "Illegal Immigrants" ala economic opportunists, cue jumpers, people who throw their babies into the ocean, people who endanger our representatives by burning their boats, paperless and no legal status, rabid frothing at the mouth outlanders who want to come to Australia to become dole bludgers or take our jobs for peanuts and bring our life style down ...

I could go on but hopefully you get the jist.

..

Thus, as the red and the blue of politics makes an art of lies and deceit, it becomes plain as to why they do not want the "clear light of day" shone onto "their" affairs.

Indeed, they fear public awareness as they fear and loathe those who attempt to elevate the public's consciousness.

Long has it been thus on this earth.
Posted by DreamOn, Friday, 27 August 2010 10:09:53 PM
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Examinator,

Good to see you exercising your claimed lack of bias.

Secondly, if you read my post or the news TA has submitted his costings, what he has ensured is that Swan and his cronies are not involved with the assessment.

Given the shameless power plays and pursuit of power by Labor, this is the tin pot calling the kettle black.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Saturday, 28 August 2010 5:48:53 AM
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Tony found the pike easier in his backflip than a tuck.

Got to be his silliest look yet and he emerged unabashed to score his own dive. Points awarded for bluff.

Fortunately overlooked by cartoonists who are blessed with far too much material and must be papering their floors and ceilings by now.
Posted by Cornflower, Sunday, 29 August 2010 9:45:07 AM
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Give the Libs time to implement some policies. After all, Australians gave Labor time to execute their policies which placed Australia in the Red during yet another term.

Who could do worse than Labor running up Billions in debt?

Focus on the parties Advisors and Treasurer; the PM takes advice, or if wise, should take advise from long term experienced Liberal Staffers.

Perhaps T.A. is in need of some assistance from the more 'liberal' minded Australians who could input?

At least T.A. appears to 'listen' more than 'dictate'!
Posted by we are unique, Sunday, 29 August 2010 10:54:51 PM
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