Well its over , or has it just begun?
Abbott won in my view he is the only one who can govern.
But we all won too.
I spent the day on a booth that is 50/50.
Only one voter got out of hand, well he said he did not need to vote, and the beer in his hand was not his first.
He chanted insults at the Liberals booth, until I moved him on.
No blood broken hearts yes, but we conservatives and Labor spoke freely and swapped cakes and drinks.
That is Australia, isn't it great?
My mob won too yesterday, a reminder went out to us, Govern for those who put you there not clicks or factions, some honesty ,some insight into what Rudd did that was so bad we had to recycle a version of the Crean/Latham/Gillard/Fitxgibbons failure to pull defeat out of the very mouth of victory would be good.

That certainly was an interesting evening's tv. I thought
of you Belly, and your predictions :) I spoke to
quite a few liberal voters at the booths and all seem to
agree, as a nation we would be better off with Costello
then with Abbott. But such is party politics.

It seems to me that the rot started to set in for Labor,
when they tried to introduce the mining tax in an election
year. That was pretty stupid thinking, for of course many
people in this nation depend on the mining industry for
the butter on their bread. Despite Gillard sorting it
out, it stayed an issue for many voters.

Gillard maybe should have waited a bit longer before
calling an election, for the Rudd saga was still on
voters minds. Then the leaks etc, which destabilised
her campaign.

State issues would have played a role too, in NSW and Qld.

One of the biggest swings was in fact against Wilson
Tuckey, so he's finally gone out to pasture. His replacement
will fight for regional areas, to make sure that the country
is not ignored as usual, to the benefit of city slickers.

So between Tony Crook, who is Tuckey's replacement, along
with the 3 independants, regional voters may well hold
the balance of power

Not meaning to interrupt the thread Belly, but OLO needs you, and others, to vote again - this time for OLO's entry for the Reinhard Mohn Prize.

There's only 19 hours left in which to lodge a vote!

Voting instructions are in the opening post to the thread 'OLO and the Reinhard Mohn Prize: Viewers' votes needed TODAY!'

I agree with Belly for once. This is a good outcome for Australia as a whole. We don’t need any more laws, but we do need to enforce the ones we have, and one of these is the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. We also need to pull the wings off State Governments, and a government with the will to enforce and execute and maintain the laws of the Commonwealth as required by Section 51 Placitum vi Constitution, is just what the doctor ordered.

After eleven and a half years, of lawlessness, Kevin Rudd came along and swept it away, and laid the foundation for this wonderful result. This wonderful result should see Andrew Wilkie, Bob Katter, Tony Windsor and Rob Oakeshott, with voices that will be heard and listened to. Some of our leading lawyers, should be shuddering and filled with fear. It is forty years since the gangsters in New South Wales took over the courts, and installed Judges, instead of the judges required by the Constitution. The word judges, without a Capital Letter, cannot authorize any one to be a Judge, and neither can it authorize any Parliament to create a Court. The word used in Ch III Constitution, court, when it stands alone, is uncapitalised, and we may even get an outbreak of honesty.

With an outbreak of honesty, the myth of State Sovereignty, will be shown for the deception it is, and the legal theft of billion of dollars, without due process of law, will now end. The Police in every State must come under the control of the Commonwealth, under s 114 Constitution, now they are in fact a de-facto army, and the Australian Federal Police must stop being a branch of the government of the day. This is serious business, because the very future of our democracy, depends on the inclusion, as required by s 45 Trade Practices Act 1974, of ordinary people, twelve in number, in every court case in Australia, and the removal of the cartel of lawyers, opening the legal profession up to the national competition policy

Sorry FG I tried then tried again, will do it yet again but getting error messages.
Well got it wrong Labor will have a minority government.
But still the outcome should be better for me and them.
Still look like getting the NBN and who knows what else both party's needed a smack.

finally the two-party...system[suss-them]
has been reduced to the past..
and government..may become..what is was meant/to be

ie the peoples house
for their saftey/wellbeing
not multinational coorperations
or internationalistic..free trade/traitors

but there is still...much rotted chaff
ie lawyers..making laws

two party hacks,..,not realising the party rort..is over
maybe..now we can get the decentralisation of governance...and
maybe..now

we can get govt servants./.actually serving..
not policing the people..for their masters...and backyard hiden men

but time will reveal...
time will see good people returning..to politics
to serve their local communities..

not just the local sports/rorts..club
or their business assosiations/assosiates

its time we revieuwed the whole suss-tem
maybe elected specificlly..thiose who would serve in particular/posts

actualy let the people/vote for who egsactly..will reprersent trade
and who will represent the consumer..not just one party hack..chosen by the party machine

i long-ago realised..that govt should only accordc funding[and oversight..over minesterial portfolio...

that minesters nominate for a specific posting..
then go through a training process..
to get the best..person on the job..serving the common weal..
not industry/lobby

the rot began,,when we got an opposition..
that realised they must oppose..just like any debate

it soon exposed..special intrests..however
as revealed by the miners lobby..not getting a new tax
but smokers..totally unrepresented..did get their tax/..immediatly

we can live in hope..but any hope is delusion

we need representatives that represent...the people..[the living]
not dead...limited/liability..coorperations

for too long..some family trust..has lorded it over the poor
for too long lawyers have ben making laws for the people
to control the individual...person

while at the same time serving a dead corperate/trust
the so called shareholder...who only holds a share of a coorerate/debt

Hey Belly, Pal here(mucked up my re-rego). Looks like neither of us won our bet, altho gotta say I was closest to the pin.
Strikes me that both sides got what they deserved-the end of the worst govt. in 30 years and the Libs. not ready for it yet. We're in for an interesting few weeks.

Hi all,
I do not think either major party won. Their constituents are and have been unhappy with their performance for a long time.
I believe the message sent by the public for this election is: remember who put you there. Govern for the people and not just the party politics. I hope the message has gone out loud and clear to the states as well. We have a Labor government in Victoria that has lost touch with its constituents and governs for the developers rather than the people. I am active with many community and environmental issues and find that e.g. going to VCAT to get justice is difficult as although it was a Tribunal for the little people to seek justice it has become captive of the legal fraternity and it cost too much for the average John and Joan doe to afford its services. Public concerns do not have the same weight as legal argument.

Interesting times ahead that's for sure...
And whether either Party gets to form a
Government or we go to the polls again,
either way, I wonder if the pollies have
learned anything from the message that
the voters have sent them? Putting
Party allegiances ahead of consituents -
does not get good results.

I kept switching channels on Saturday night,
and watched the disgraceful attacks of Kroger
on Wayne Swan, and saw Barnaby Joyce's unsuccessful
attempts to pressure Tony Windsor. These guys
reminded me of the old saying, "A politician
should do 2 terms - one in office and one in jail!"

The outcome of this Election should serve as a good
lesson. And who knows, perhaps in the future we
may get the type of Government where Party allegiance
will no longer be important. Where local issues will
be resolved in Parliament by people who will be committed
to doing the right thing for the country, rather than the
Party.

That would be something to look forward to.

It has been clear to me for some years that the two tribe mentality (Red V Blue) is the greatest impediment to democracy in this country and is largely if not totally dysfunctional.

It is a great sadness to me that both sides are running around like chooks pecking at each other rather than being sensible enough to roll with the punches, learn and put the country before the party.

Logically I know that the entrenchment of the tribal approach to government is as deep as it is visceral. The reasons for this are many and varied. Among is the deeply ingrained cultural arrogance that there are the rulers and the ruled (Malthusian determined and politics is a means of POWER. Competence, integrity, morality, objectivity are optional and guile, manipulation, ambition and ruthlessness are preferred.

This is manifested in the unresolved conflict in the West between Capitalist amorality (i.e. it's only wrong if you're caught) and what I call the Human Sustainability. The latter is often miss labeled as the linear opposite to Capitalism, Socialism. In fact it is an entirely different ideology and in a totally different multiple dimensional paradigm.

This election was a clear and unequivocal public warning to these power groups to change or be come extinct. Sadly the lust for power for power sake is a hard one to lay. e.g. Howard, Rudd, Abbott, Latham, Hawke et al all are it's victims. it is too soon to tell with JG despite her start to the top.

Part 1

Part 2
Abbott/Joyce and other coalition extreme hype/posturing on and since the election eve maybe calculated to suppress the independents' expectation and to gain a better Liberal negotiation position.

This is much like what Rudd did with the Mining tax but overplayed his hand ending disastrously. It took the pragmatism of Gillard to improve the position for tribe Labor.

I suspect that Gillard's skills are not so much in the Labor hype and posturing, but in the pragmatic "get it done" role. Therein lies IMO her strength as a better PM than Rudd, her pragmatism and focus to the task. (more Tanner - ish)
In my mind, I wonder if the roles of Gillard and Rudd been reversed would there have been better outcome for labor.

Then again Rudd's uber ambition would and is a problem. I hope the needed pruning will suffice. He will be a far better Minister than PM.

To me the two party preferred is the morally the rightful leader of a minority govt.

Failing that back to the polls and you watch the pendulum then.
The other mammoth in the room with diarrhea is who and how is that campaign going to be funded.
IMO it won't happen and we'll have interesting times. (ref Chinese curse) :-)

First past the post voting is not fair. Maybe we should look at Tasmania. Some kind of regional preferential might be a goer. Divide the country up into regions with multi members, not unlike the Senate. Winner take all as it is now is not stable or productive.

No, it does not worry me. If they start voting against everything, they will gain little support at the next election. This is the problem with Abbott. We know what he is against, everything that Labor has introduced. We do not know what he stands for. We do not know what his vision is. I suspect if he told us, we would run a mile.

The problem is that Mr. Abbott and his supporters do not know they have not won. Labor has not won also. If any party has won, it is the Greens. I like to think the voters have won. A government made up of more than one party represents more people. The only thing needed for this to work is to have respect for all members of the parliament, not only in your own party.

Do not the rights of the Greens and other minority parties have any merit? The present system of winner takes all does not make sense. You are saying that only one party has all the answers. I am old enough to remember Mr. Menzies not being to proud to steal policies from Labor after elections. Mr. Abbott would be better at looking at what can work instead of what he destroys. It is not about whom, what is right, or wrong, it is about what is the best way to do it. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Whether it works depends on whether the media is willing to give it a fair go. Grow up, sometimes change is in our best interest. The two party system is being found wanting. Statesmen can make it work. If it can work in most other western countries, surely we are mature to do so,

Listen to what the independents are stating. They appear to be agreeing with Labors policies not the Coalition as being in their best interest. The message they are giving is that it is about stable government not parties. It is time we grew up and come into the modern age. We should be glad to see the end of the two party systems. As for the allegations against the GG, it is insulting to say she cannot make up her own mind. The woman has a long and independent successful career. Would they be saying the same if she was the father-n-law.

Dear Flo,

You've summed things up in a nutshell, and
done it beautifully.

Echoed my sentiments, and I'm sure those
of many others.

The next couple of weeks will prove interesting
indeed.

At the risk of being seen as a gloater, for two years I have said that the only reason Kevin prised off the rusted on Christian vote from the coalition, was that he was a practicing Christian. Self delusion does not win elections, and the self delusion of the Labor Party that Workchoices was the reason 23 seats shifted camp in 2007, saw them make a fatal mistake.

This election will be won on a handful of votes, and that handful will be church attending Christians. It seems that Hasluck and Brisbane will go Liberal, the coalition will have about 72 seats, and the Independents will have five. I am including Tony Crook from Kalgoorlie, in that five, as he is acting as an Independent, and will give his vote to the one who looks after his electorate the best.

If Almighty God wanted a result he got what His followers asked for. We need an honest government, and an honest government is Christian. The Christian God keeps his word, and so do Bible believing Christians. An honest government, unlike the one just not returned, would accept the Australia Act 1986 is an oxymoron, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights is in fact Australian Law, enacted in 1986, as Schedule 2 to the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission Act 1986, made an element of a crime in S 268:11 and 268:12 Criminal Code Act 1995, and unless the lawyers of Australia, 30 of whom, including Bill Shorten, Nicola Roxon and Julia, were in the Labor Party in Parliament accept that truth, they are not fit and proper people to hold power.

Tony played down his Christianity, and did not flay Julia for her atheist views. Any lawyer who does not understand the Christian roots of good government derive from the Holy Bible is unfit to be a leader. When the independents give their word, they will keep it. They will take their Oath of Allegiance seriously, they are all fine men in their own right, and the Constitution as a Christian document, will ensure stability

Nice if Abbott would let us see those costings.
Not much doubt why he will not the feeble excuse is a lie,he knows why he will not do it we know too lies are not policy's Tony
Lets get grounds for a DD election and only that will save us, even if conservatives win

ok..lets/get..a few things-straight

the greens...doubled..their vote?
they claim/a swing..of 3 percent?

so any..who/REALLY WANTED...a price..on carbon..
[the greens..were the only ones/..talking about that]..
runs at arround 10..to 12 percent

the libs/got say 2 percent increase...with/no..carbon price
labour..lost a few percent..by delaying..the cap/trade

there were over 1,000,000...people
who voted informal..[1/5..or 1/6 th of the voters..who regesterd..]
these people VOTED..non/of..the abouve..

ie NO TWO-PARTY/machine-men
no global/tax..no 'green'-jobs..built on deceptions..lol

we have a chance..for change
[to go forward..with the FACTS]

WHAT HAS THE ABBOT..to hide
the libs..SET_UP..the system..
THEN FAILED TO OBEY..their own scam..!

while we-are..at it..this 'leak'...that has downers/name..ALL OVER IT
no doudt/fully..bugging the pm's rooms is a cinch..if asio..has one..LIKE that..treasury-guy...who was leaking/to..the former/liberal leader

we have paassed through..the WORST..election/spin...EVER

we have seen..how the business/lobby..runs the power-play..via faceless/men

recall...when ol barnaby/..
fluffed his millions/billions
the media..made you miss his/..main point...debt...

note..sovereign debt..as such..IS HUGE...

arnt the states-debt's
sovereign debt..that falls onto..the taxpayers?
just as bad/..as federal debt/sovereign debt..does

the states/are in this up to their ex-gratia payments..for their masters

then there-is the free-trade..deception
and lest we forget..going gren..is what got spain into its death/debt..spiral..going green..sent them broke

lets say we invent...alternatives.[go green]
china build..much cheaper than we can

the only going green..that will work for us..is growing hemp[oil/fibre..fuel/food..over 40 thousand products from one plant]

and heaps of industries..
that spin-off..from the processing of a weed

we allready have the infastructure..laid for cane farming..hemp..works much the same/system...harvest it/process it..at the defunct cane-crushing machines..

form cooperatives...give each a fair share..
and when the foreign bankers come to steal it..dont sell-out

bah..we get the leaders we deserve
im just wasteing my breath

we got the govt..we deserve
those lawyer's..who swore oath..
to the law society..arnt really legally allowed to be in govt...

where is the sepperation of powers..
or the treason..of lawyers making laws..let alone their lawyers oath,,to the BRITISH..law society

then we get to the bankers/docters..[pill-merchants all]..
and lest we forget the booze industry,..killing off ausies on the roads..and main streets..

just so the govt can serve its mates..bah

Hi All,

If Abbot refuses to allow Treasury to check his costings then the only conclusion is that they are suspect. A recognised accounting firm but if the Liberals asked for it to be done and set certain parameters may have done them and methodology. These may be the areas questioned, leading to a much scrutiny of his costings.
Secondly, the two main parties need to realise that other parties need to have their input given sufficient weight and they should be treated with respect. I include other parties and Independents in this statement.
In the past, the two major parties have considered that theirs and only their policy are relevant. They have not truly represented their constituents or governed for the people of Australia. Government has been mainly catering for the big business end of town, including Mining. Even the small businesses have been largely ignored.

so whats the latest
well julia..speaks at the press-club..midday
too little..too late

but lets/look at..the co-e-lition...two party/prefered..[what.a joke]

see how labour/liberal/national/greens...
of which only/two are coelition...yet/all colude/under

what we/are missing ..is the single/party/partly-people nominated/under

so whats/the..true state..of play
i guess labourites..got the most votes
liberals..came second
nationals third

independants came 4th
and greens..got one

[ok thats/the numbers..for the lowest-house
but..the media wont/report it..that way]

anyhow..here/is..whats going to-happen
the libs...seek 6 mounths..to do their/vile
before the/greens..take over..the senete..

to do this/they have 6 billion..for broad-band,,to the inependants..electorates

then/they-will..bring-in cap/trade...
[rudd..followed howards..plan]after-all...lol[did/you..even notice?]

so that/is inevitable..
[you can/see..the big-push..is on..in the media..[inter-nationally]

but where/is..that scare...[you know..the hole..in the ozone..
that we were previously..told..will/bring higher-temp...[and IT..did]

nothing/can fix...the REAL-problem
so whats..the scam?

ok lets/see..a price on carbon..[then/much-like..aid..to the/sick and dying..pennies..to green_the/world]...

but what/is..this greening all about?..[AL]gore?

cap/trade..to wit..bonus..for the carbon-traders
see..the /cam works..like this

you pay..one dollar..to buy/your carbon
then you are ALLOWED to polute..all you wish..

as long as you pay..the big-new-tax...see the libs/..labs..REALLY WANT_IT..for their elitist/freetrading/multinationalist';s..mates/backers/financiers..
NEEDING TO KEEP..INDUSTRY GOING..building all/that..green-stuff..for their greed..our consumptive/need

so they..shut-down..a poluting/industry..in say/briton
[like the steel industry..it has/allready-shut/down

then use..a portion..of their..carbon-credits..
to build,,A NEW.one in india..[making much-more..polution/but also nice NEW-industry]..built..with your carbon-taxes/gullability...[and nice/bonus..all-round..for their/mates

and the..ozone-hole..well..who cares...
they got/..air-con..and hug- bonus...they are..fine

anyhow you/..know the state..of play
what can you/do

nuthing

aint..demon-autocracy...grand...!
gotta /love..the two partly-system..as well

and as for..reform...well mate get-out there and fundraise
the multinationals..who own..most of it..need new blood...mainly lawyers..who are allready/used to making excuses..for criminals

whats the/biggest..change..for the good..
that wont be allowed to happen

the media...reporting facts..not sporting fictions..and entertainting us with cop/lawyer/adrenolin..shows..and peers based sport/drama..but thats/what..the mugs/think..they want

anyhow..well played tony/alexander[neat trick..that 2de/week[as frazer/confirmed..last nights..qa

you got sucked-in julia

if you hadda/stayed on the left..you might have/had..a shot
instead..the party elites[face-less money-men...win...again]

one thing/they learned..from all-that..sampling
if you limit..the choices
they allways/will..yet chose..something..lol...anything

[ok..less-voted for the/greens..than those..who didnt vote..at all

[1.6..millionm..regesterd..but didnt vote...
why..because in/the end..it dont make/any difference

one of them..coluding/two-parties..ALLWAYS WINS