One more thing *Yappy* and I'll go out on a limb here but thereafter be pleased to be corrected.

The point that I take issue to again is the matter of localised global warming gasses and consequently localised effects.

You see, pursuant to local conditions, global warming gasses accumulate where they do in the atmosphere, solar radiation comes in, passes through, strikes the planets surface (partly converting to radiant heat,) bounces back and tries to head back out to outer space

BUT

instead strikes a blanket of g.w. gasses and bounces straight back down to earth again heating the place up. Simple really isn't it?

..

Obviously you have never grown tomatoes hydroponically with CO2 supplementation OR you would know this.

..

So, local considerations are very relevant as are localised shade patches, just as they are in the paddock when the stock need to seek shelter.

Park land clearing and new harvesters. I predict that will be part of the mix for "threatened" locales.

..

So, to say that the only issue is in the northern hemisphere is a nonsense.

Dream On, you really are a dreamer, aren't you? Good on you, enjoy, but we must hope other people don't get the idea you are talking sense.

For example your greenhouse example. Mate in your greenhouse the "house" part, plastic, or glass is not there to stop escaping radiation, but to stop the loss of heat by convection. The warmed air can't escape, radiative losses are of no consideration.

Now in tour "blanket" of gas, first there is nothing for any radiative heat to "bounce" off. A little is absorbed, & re-radiated in all directions, with an increasingly small percentage of it radiated towards the planet, with increasing height.

Then we find that those very gasses that form your so called blanket are the ideal material to move the heat to the high atmosphere, from which it can easily escape to space.

Yes, gas is an ideal medium for convection currents to establish, & cart your heat up & away, rather than bounce it anywhere.

Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 27 August 2010 8:49:11 PM

" ... Dream On, you really are a dreamer, aren't you? Good on you, enjoy, but we must hope other people don't get the idea you are talking sense. ... "

I am of the view that it is the lies and misinformation promoted by people like yourself that must be quashed.

I am happy to enter into an exchange of scientific citation if you wish, to demonstrate to any concerned that what I have said is correct. And then having read the majority view of the majority of credible scientists in the world people can make up their own minds.

It amazes me that you have the gall to speak with the pretense of authority when quite obviously you are clueless.

*HasBeen* is an apt handle for you as your notions are reminiscent of the "Dark Ages."

*And that is simply, whilst say with coal you have to locate it, dig it up and then transport it before you burn it, with wind, solar and geothermal you do not.*

Err Dreamer, we know all that, duh. But there are good reasons why
say the Chinese, who can make anything on the cheap, send their
boats to Australia to buy thermal coal for their power stations
and pay us billions of $. Believe me, if alternate forms of
energy were cheaper, they would not be paying us good money,
but doing it all themselves. They don't. They buy our coal.

There is a mountain of evidence discussing these costings, but
you, who claim to be well informed about science, have not even
researched the basics on this. So I'm not going to do it for you.

*But I put it to you, the problem with getting green tech established, is not because it is too expensive or not viable relatively, but rather because it will decimate the electricity industry as we know it and put a lot of people out of work.*

Sheesh, now we have a global conspiracy theory here. Never mind
the economics that we know, never mind the jobs that would be
created, never mind the fierce competition of the marketplace.
Dreamer has dreamt up a conspiracy theory to explain it all.
This is a bit like debating religion with runner, frankly its
a waste of time.

*they have plenty of it in addition to paying less than 60c per litre of fuel and less than $AU10 per 15kg clean weight bottle of gas.*

Ah ok, another conspiracy theory, it must be BP. Never mind that
Indonesia nearly blew up their budget through subsidising petrol,
never mind the riots that broke out, never mind that Australia
taxes its petrol at around 50c a litre to pay for all those
welfare costs. It must be BP.

Dreamer, stop dreaming and do your homework. Perhaps you only
post this rubbish for a bit of attention. That's what I'm starting
to presume.

*Yappy* the only one who is posting rubbish mate is your moronic conservative drivel which quite otherwise than being well researched, is simplistic propaganda the likes that we come to expect on all matters pertaining to climate change, global warming, asylum seekers, and the Stolen Generation, and the list goes on, from the conservative spectrum of politics.

1. Re China, they are in process of tooling up massive alternative energy production facilities in addition to what they are also producing and have begun developing entire seed cities based purely and only on organic and green systems. It is a work in progress but you can bet when their tech level rises, their imports of coal will reduce. Nothing surer - not if, just when.

2. Re China again, the W.H.O. estimates that in excess of 100,000+ people in China die every year because of coal pollution related respiratory disease and I would refer your attention to the 4 Corners or Cutting Edge report that recently aired on the Australian network re Australian doctors pulling their families out of Australian coal dust contaminated towns.

3. Re: the alleged evidence that you claim you could produce but choose not to, I would suggest you stop reading conservative party clap trap and back up your assertions with more than hot air and bluster. We have all seen how you attempted to denigrate female members when it became clear to all that you are little more than a big mouth.

4. It's no conspiracy theory, but there is more people than just me that consider that it is a bad joke that we need to pay the companies of other countries international level profits for the resources of Australia that belong collectively to Australians. .. It becomes increasingly obvious that you are unable to substantiate your assertions with fact so it does in turn become obvious why you resort to personal denigration. You cut a pathetic character in my view.

/TBC

5. What's a waste of time *Yappy* is you sooking and sulking and sneering because you're not getting you're own way. What a laugh!

6. Re: Indo here again you are clueless, verily, full of sh!t and you have little idea about that which you are talking. Whilst they currently have an inflation problem, the Indo's are doing relatively ok and came through the GFC pretty well. SBY holds the support of the international business community far more than any of his predecessors.

Pertamina is a very profitable company because they don't have international parasites feeding off them to the extent that Australia does. The only sense that it can be said that they subsidise their fuel is because they don't charge international price. They have a domestic price for the local market, which is still profitable, and international prices for their export products. Any residual that they need to import has its cost offset by local profits.

7. The reason there were riots, and I can but guess to which ones you refer as typically you're nonsense is non specific, is because the Soharto regime was highly corrupt.

After all, Soharto's son did little more than 1 year for having a judge executed and now they're talking about letting others involved in the Bali bombings out early too. I would not be surprised to learn that some money has been changing hands on those issues.

So, maybe you might get an appreciative audience in a troll pit after everyone has had one too many *Yappy* but here you will have to back up your assertions in order to be taken seriously.

Same goes for *Pericles* whose recent efforts have diminished compared to some of his early work, and I note "Cutting Edge" is about to release a doco on Australia Network entitled "Once there was an Island."