http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-12/australia-employers-added-workers-for-fifth-month-adding-to-rate-pressure.html

http://www.rttnews.com/Content/AsianEconomicNews.aspx?Id=1391128&SM=1

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-10948845

Given that Julia Gillard has little to show for any of Labor's policies in the past few years, she has been trying to push Labor's economic credentials.

The latest job figures show not only that that once the sugar rush of the stimulus has past, that fewer jobs have been created than claimed, but also that a large portion of those have been temporary employment.

This shift to temporary employment is largely due to a combination of market uncertainty and a reluctance by small businesses to take on full time employees given that the new fair work laws have made shedding jobs more difficult and expensive.

To add the cherry to the cake, the only sector to remain buoyant is the mining sector which now faces the prospect of the highest tax rate in the world, and a slowing in the Chinese market.

Unfortunately, no political party will make the recovery to good times, because they cannot get it through their heads, that to combat the greed of those on obscene ptofits, they have to return to the higher tax of the 1950's to 1970, of 66.6%. this kept obscene incomes at bay, and our country out of recession. the only improvement could have been the reduction of the tax on lower incomes and for business to have a no tax up to $25,000 personal and probably $100,000 or so on business, I believe you would find our economy would be a lot better off.

SM,
Really now you are getting ridiculous.
Do I need to point out the Libs problems?

Blaming Gillard for all the evils of the Rudd lead labor party is as silly as blaming the Libs policy over the last election period on Abbott. Well he was a senior member under two previous leaders.

Put down the placard and get real...I'd expect that level bollocks from some other anti commmie contributors but you

examinator while I do not find your post other than quite true you must not take shadow minster too seriously.
He after all thrives on half truths and is searching desperately for dirt even to the extent of making it up.
May be he is a script writer for Abbott?
Unemployment has been low, very low in comparison with Howard's years.
not holding my breath but Shadow should look for reality and honesty in trying to win votes this stuff he uses is for the unknowing few.

Unemployment has been low, very low in comparison with Howard's years.
Belly,
The unemployment is not higher because the Rudd Government blew all the funds with the stimulus package & now there's nothing left except the generous supplies of Public funded Public Service Superannuation.
The previous coalition had a slightly higher unemployment rate because Howard wasn't so dumb as to blow valuable funds on mindless schemes.

this mornings polls seem to agree with me.
spin spite personal and in general are not working.
right now surely Labor is as shaky as it ever will be, much needs explanation.
Not the silly stuff Indy and shadow throw about but why was Rudd dumped.
Why the dumping of the ETS.
why not DD election.
Why did we let public servants send cash to dead pensioners and even those who no longer live here.
Yes why did very poor shonky in fact contractors get away with the pink bats installations that failed.
BUT Australia is about to return my side, Abbott and the spin machine has lost this election, why?
Indy Shadow minister hasbeen you insult voters.
Any or all of you could be policy maker number one for this lost conservative mob.
To think voters are so silly they buy this rubbish is an insult.
I will continue to be balanced in my posts and will have questions for my side after Saturday.
Tell me however why with media intent on selling us a pup you are not on a winner?
Thanks however for your amusement in those posts.

Now do not use my post as evidence Labor is wrong.
It could have been 20 posts and every one about the failures of your team.
Abbott putting the fool from the Nats in finance, I do not always tell the truth Abbott the Ute gate stupidity.
Why bother?
looking forward to next weekend have dumped vote counting, I will be here at home watching every seat, may say Gday here too.

I know that the liberal party attacks the labor for the woes and Labor attacks the liberal for the same reason, but if the members of the liberal party in power would look up the history of their champion, they would find that in his years from 1944 to 1966, Australia climbed out of the depression of the '30's, by putting the top tax up to 66.6%, and it flourished for 20 years. Since then, Either John Gordon or William McMahon started the downhill roll by lowering the top tax, and it has been going downhill ever since - with the economy. Interesting, is that in the failurers in the economy, excepting for the pig farm owner, all the other PM's and treasurers have been lawyers, and Julia and Wayne Swan, are both lawyers, so don't expect any economic increase there either, and not from the liberal party either, unless they take notice of Robert Menzies, and increase the top tax back to that 66.6%, and do similatr with the corporate tax, and ban export mining.

merv09,
A top rate of 66.6% seems a little harsh, particularly considering the broad economic changes that have occurred both domestically and internationally since that time. We have become so overwhelmed by our own greed and selfishness that any suggestion that something be done that will have long term effects for the nation but might require a bit of sacrifice by the wealthy is met with the usual paranoid socialist crap from people like Shadow Minister.

If you consider it honestly Menzies makes Julia look like a conservative, as all politics in this country has become. The Greens offer the only left position and they are grilled for it. Western Sydney the once great strong hold of working class Australia only needed a few dollars dangled in their faces to become a conservative nursery.

Individual,
Howard did little for unemployment as the current government has done little. The mining sector boom is where employment has been generated causing labour shortages allowing for low unemployment numbers. The interesting part for me is that despite the current world economic position and the changes that labor made to industrial relations the jobs being created are full time as apposed to Howards part time work choice.

Don't worry Belly. SM is just adding to the current attack style of political campaigning.

It is just a distraction from the lack of a coherent Liberal economic policy and a bungle over policy costings as revealed by the recent 'leak'.

I've just looked at this thread and I think a couple of you are being a bit hard on SM. There's an election on, and I would have thought that those who support various parties would be spruiking their virtues. No shame to him that he is spruiking his.

Also went to the trouble of checking the unemployment rate. You might be interested in looking at this graph. http://www.ambitgambit.com/?attachment_id=4014

Shows that from 2003 on the Howard government had unemployment rates that were as low, or lower, than the current ones. Also shows that Howard inherited a rate of around 9% from the Keating government.

The figures are from the ABS.

For the record I think that Julia Gillard's role in rolling the employment laws back to a model which predates the Hawke and Keating governments is a retrograde step and will do more damage than anything else the current government has done. The graph shows you the results of inflexible labour markets when you look at the earlier years.

Australia's economy, will sink further with the policies that have been forced into the system by the use of the mining companies - as a spoilt child, using one parent against the other, with neither knowing or seeming to care what the prospects are going to be. When the recession keeps looming in the background, the unemployment will keep rising, and it would be worse now if some of the companies involved had not introduced 2 and 3 day work to keep the employment as good as they can. They have not been getting any help at all from either the Howard or the Gillard Government, I think that if some of the those on part time work were put full time, and the others were put off, the unemployment rate would be more like 10% or more, but I don't think that the Liberal party have a plan to improve it. They don't show any improvement in their policies, if they have one.

Graham you like every one else are entitled to your opinions.
And believe it or not I respect you BUT firmly think Shadow minister has gone far past fair comment, often.
Now while discounting your views about new workplace laws bringing higher unemployment, I concede your figures are right.
On unemployment.
You would be as aware as I am just a month ago most thought the figures meant we had full employment.
That highlights a truth, some welfare is wasted, some do not want work any work.
Both party's know change is needed in this area.
Now for balance and understanding, my posts have challenged media bias, and spoke of last minute change in editorial policy.
This election is very close not yet won.
But instead of looking to SM read this mornings Sydney daily Telegraph editorial, a well put to gether and true read but ends with support for LABOR.
Then read the Sydney herald goggle them see the attack adds turn off for voters.
GY I remember once I complained about a poster inferring I was a pedophile, based on some within my party.
You highlighted that truth,, then said you would delete it because it inferred I was, it was hard to understand, hard to think in a way you left the insult on the table to have a go at my party.
Bloke I do not want a panel to over see the forum I think it is counter productive.
And I have not sided with those who find you too hash, ever , but I truly think you, like every one of us, can be biased.
Shadow Minister hasbeen, and others can think as they wish so Can I let my peers judge me, you judge me but my views remain truly held.

There is a major flaw in employment numbers that has been used by both parties for years, that's the fact that a job created is measured by just 1 HOURS WORK PER WEEK.

Many employers have now canned all overtime and put thier employees on a strict 38Hr mon-fri shift and they, like me, do the sunday P/hol themselves as thier businesses simply can't afford the 'back to the 70's' pay rates.

One sneaky move by labor was to increase the loading for casuals from 20% to 25%. This was their way of creating full time work.

Another is the 'unlawfull dismissal' law. This law effects small businesses with fewer employees, which in effect negates any protection from UFD laws.

Tony abbott is running scared on IR and I think that's a shame, as to continue down the same path with IR may well be our downfall. Like it or not, we now live in a seven day society.IR laws must recognise this or many will perish.

Remeber, mining will not last forever.

I think the only long term solution will be in the form of a 'dictatorship' arrangement, the old 'do as you're told' senario. But this won't happen as long as the people get to choose who leads the country.

There are simply to many relying on 'hand outs' and they will vote for those who provide the most.

Our present system is leading us to an unsustainable future and one that few seem to recognise, either that, or they simply coose to ignore the facts.

The IR laws effect the 'risk takers', the 'job creators' and all the protection of workers rights in the world will mean nothing to the worker if they don't have a job.

well read the forum added to one other thread the once Latham now political warfare one.
Still stunned still shaky threads, like sleeping your way to the top taming of the shrew shotgun wedding had a run.
List goes on surely we would have it no other way, robust debate in the plebes section of OLO.
Am I truly a fool? can it be that my truthful views on who should run this country betrays my country?
Do we all agree with this threads title? every word of it? can the host of world experts who say We did better in the GFC be wrong?
BIAS do not expect any of us not to show it but surely some care about balance about truth about this country if we let bias challenge our right to be us think as we do we put our country at risk.
OLO is our country's best forum stifle it with one sided bias and it will not be.
I am content to be measured against Shadow Minister individual and hasbeen.

Belly, I wouldn't dispute that the forum threads that have been created lately are mostly from one side. I try and balance the journal, but on the forum most things get approved. I certainly don't strive to balance the thread topics.

If you want a thread coming from your side of the debate then you should submit it.

I'm not sure that it really matters that much anyway because once the thread has been created everyone just piles in.

I don't really want to buy into this thread. What I posted was to demonstrate that SM was not peddling "half truths" and that I thought the commenters should address issues rather than accusing others of bad faith.

rehctub,

I see that you are including both major parties in your criticism, however, it was the Howard Government that instituted the one hour a week as being "employment".

Got to say that your idea of "dictatorship as the only way out is mind-boggling. I'm not entirely satisfied that you are really joining us from the vantage point of the twenty-first century. I'm sure you have a portal from somewhere long past and you visit us via it, lol. It seems that you can't believe that the pesky proletariat got the vote and propose to pedal it via some outrageous system called democracy...Are you for real?

Nairbe “A top rate of 66.6% seems a little harsh”

Agree except when compared to a top rate of

over 75% in post war, 1950 Australia, which has progressively fallen since, although with the progress of indirect tax, Tax take as % of GDP increased to about 30% by 2001.

(http://www.treasury.gov.au/documents/1156/PDF/01_Brief_History.pdf)

113%+ in post War UK (98% marginal income tax plus 15% surcharge on “unearned income”) – hence why the wealthy fled UK in 1950-60’s before being axed back by Margaret Thatcher but since the increases in UK VAT tax as % GDP has climbed from about 37% to 53% in the UK’s Blair/Brown decade of economic decay.

and 90%+ in post war (1944-45 and 1951-1963) in USA, presently 35% and consuming approximately 19.5% of GDP (Hauser’s law)

To mervs original justification “our economy would be a lot better off.”

No, because the level of tax to GDP would be “excessive” and self defeating

Strip peoples access to discretionary income and you strip all incentive to achieve.

Replace peoples discretionary income with government funded spending and you end up like the USSR

An absolutely fabulous war machine, shops with empty shelves and people trying to escape the repression of an omnipotent government.

As for the stupidity of the incumbent incompetents

Squanderers of the Howard /Liberal fiscal legacy
Bad Economics
Bad Employment policies
Bad ETS
Bad (deadly) Environmental policies
Four big bad “E”s to suggest

Labor deserve the big “E”xit next weekend

A return to Liberal government (regardless how you feel about any individuals like Tony Abbott), is to vote for a return to fiscal prudence and responsible economic stewardship.

This is really simple, just read the history books to understand

Liberal policy works
Socialist policy fails.

I see we have the usual sprinkling of “failure apologists” haranguing Shadow Minister for exercising his right of expression.

I wonder if Senator Conroy will decide to "censor" SM in his version of “brave new world” if his socialist brethren return to power to enact Conroy's

“You no agree with me, you no get to say on my national broadband network ” policy

No GY never ever do I want this forum to change, and I do not want a panel to judge posts, such things do more harm than good.
I will not put pro ALP threads in place, if I did unlike a few here I would not do so based on the following.
One eyed interpretations by media more intent on manufacturing issues than reporting news.
On posting these links, some further distort the truth in the very threads they start.
What then do I want?
Read My post history, to say I am biased is as silly as saying shadow minister is not.
post after post thread after thread say nothing but unfair hings.
Is it OK for individual to claim I betray AUSTRALIA if I vote Labor?
YES it is if I can rebut the rubbish.
You GY know who each of us are SM surely mirrors the fear and loathing on display from your side of the fence.
Labor is about to win, not because they have done every thing Right, but because Abbott supported by those who want him in power frighten us.
Last if a few read my highlighted news papers they will see I know My party has much to answer for ,much to be proud of, much to be ashamed of.
We need strong conservative party's in time we will need them to rule, but not this team not this time.

To suggest that labor is the stronger economic manager, moving forward is quite bizar, to say the least.

Given thier track record, and that's pretty much all we can go on, they have to be kidding, in fact, apart from spending the billions we had in the bank, some good, but most wasted, what have they catually achieved and, who can trust they have it right this time given the number of failures they resided over, all the while madam Pm was number 2.

Simply ask yourself this question, if the labor front benchers were the board of directors of a major company you had shares in, would you feel confident enough to buy more shares. After all, that's what you're doing if you vote for labor. Providing them with more money to waste if they get it wrong, again!

Now as for avoiding the recession, well, many would have been better off to have gone through one as they now have half million dollar mortages, they didn't have, thanks to another recless labor policy.

Suck them into buying a house, that they couldn't afford, then put presure on interest rates which may well drive them out.

rechtub you and I are meant to cross swords but do you think before posting.
Do you truly understand the western world went in to debt to stop a recession? maybe a depression?
Are you up on Americas debts, seen as percentage of Gross Annual income?
England's?
The blame games is so very much less than it would have been if we did not spend.

Yes belly, i am fully aware that some have debts in the area of 90%+, but, they also have one very important thing that we don't, and that's 'bums on seats'. They also have hugely reduced property values at present and, if this changes for the better, thier debt % levels will fall.

Our population is tiny in comparison and this is why we rely so heavily on export. Look out if those countries decide to buy 'in-house' and cut us out. Then you will witness carnage.

It seems ironic that under work choices both employment was higher, and the percentage of full time workers.

This goes for the present government and all other Labor governments.

Dear Belly,
I see why the words Lefty, Righty, and Jesus offend you as you don't like to be convicted of lying. Without authority it is only wishful thinking and your opinion and carries no power or weight. Gods word is power and acomplish's what God sent it to do. I see someone was promoting unnatural Law as the way to go. That is just like you redefining the meaning of socalism. It doesn't have any power to acomplish what you wish. God is not the God of answered wishes for natural Law stops that. Satins twisted word accomidates wishful thinking.

So rechtub, shadow minister, and Richie ten, you look to Tony HIGH FIBER Abbot to get things done better.
Now my extremist right wing Christian Friend first Richie.
Your God said judge not less you be judged he threw the moneylenders out of the holly place.
He said give Cesar his dues.
LIE? are you saying my words are lies? who are you to say who is left?
Shadow unlike rechtub you have a true understanding of issues, have run a hard campaign for your side.
Not much balance but your task was to run hard and fast high fiber Tony was not much help but next election?
Hockey will do better.
Rechtub, mate what happened to my mob choking? and yours?
We are doing better because mineral exports carried both Howard and us, no brilliant government just good luck.
But we are not on the verge of mass unemployment.
We are doing better than most ,most international money people think Rudd did well.
Maybe Tony high fiber in his quite moments does too.
Need to ask him first was it a written script or on the run comment.

Howard...raped the Health system, raped the Education system, we lost free university, we won the GST...a 10% tax that increased the price of everything to more like 20%. And we found ourselves in 2 wars that have nothing to do us, WMD's, democracy or our security.

Under Howard...the figures used to calculate inflation NO LONGER contain fuel cost increases, mortgage interest rates and many other indicators for the "cost of living".

How Howard got us out of debt...he dumped our gold reserve onto the global market, lowering the value of gold, but virtually nullifying our debt overnight. That made a lot of gold companies VERY unhappy.

We lost our largest Australian company, BHP.

We won nothing under Howard, and lost a lot.

Under Rudd...billions wasted on schools by not understanding how to make companies accountable, or understanding good business practices. Billions wasted in insulation because any cat and his dog with a business name implying the fitting of insulation, got a contract, and again, were not accountable.

The GFC...regardless of which government was in power, the monies would have been mismanaged the same, as we had to follow suit with America...bail-out the big boys that lost the money, and let the little guys toil and suffer. The entire concept of the bail-outs was rubbish, and did little more than look after some big boys that will be employing consultants that were ex-government officials, in the future. The bail-outs were mostly a whitewash so that many iconic institutions were not held accountable, though a few heads did roll, they were only token to the real depth of the problems.

Traditionally, we could rely on Labor to have some good social policies, but not money management skills, and we could rely on the Liberals to have money management skills, and cut the excess fat off of what Labor did. But currently, both show competence only at lying, back-flipping, usurping their leaders, and saying anything that might be remotely popular to gain office, but no plans of any substance by either.

Bob Brown...frothing at the mouth with glee, holding the balance of power.

Labor has repeatedly raped small business.

Considering that this is where most new jobs are created, implementing the fair work legislation that imposes similar IR legislation on small business as large businesses is sure to result in the shedding or casualisation of employment.

Rather than claiming to be the PM of Jobs, she should claim the title of PM of part time jobs.

Shadow Minister now that the election is over, it is you know, you lost Australia won.
We should look for this country sake at rebuilding your party.
First lets get together one conservative party one team.
Oh yes you will need a dumping ground preferences and all that.
Say a few Liberal Liberals stay and run the dumping ground.
Lets start the clean up get a truck we will need it Bronwyn and Julie have to go a 44 of botox could not help and no way they can remain silent.
Pyne the pain? get him a Job inside the party but far away from Parliament.
Abbott maybe a short spell then sports minister in your next government, maybe in 3 years.
Iron bar and that poor lost bloke in the Nats Barnaby Joice?
But them a pub anything just get rid of them.
You get the drift it will mean you can no longer write party policy, but that was not a job after all any one can complain.
Joe Hockey, his first speech should go something like this.
We are sorry
for the tactics we have employed
after all we knew it worked in the past and mistakenly thought it would forever.
While we will watch every move of the government we pledge not to stop bills in the senate just because we can.
First step to Joe getting your mob over the line.

Fair enough Graham but would you be supporting a Labor/Green oriented poster with a series of constant spruiking threads when they are pulled up on it? Maybe you would - I don't know.

Spruik away by all means, we can all do it, but we should also expect retaliatory spruiking. :)

Belly,

The fact that Abbott put the wind up Labor, drag the Labor brand through the mud, got rid of Rudd, and got JG to back-flip on just about every Labor policy is enough to warm the cockles of my heart. Your outrage is the cherry on top.

What would you suggest they do with Garrett, with JG, the face of Labor incompetence?

Abbott is here to stay, and if JG wins, she can expect more of the same for the next 3 years.

Stern, Your remarks about the 66.6% tax exceeding the 30% of GPD, doesn't do your ability to do mathematics much good, and that seems to be a lot of trouble with our wonderful treasurers. Let's suppose we have that 66.6% or even that 75% on the high income, with a bit of knowledge of maths, you have to have only an average of 30% or whatever was needed. This would mean a reduction of the tax on lower incomes or no tax nil tax on say $26,000, - the minimum adult annual wage. As the corporate tax also comes into this, and from history, it seems that a top tax of 45% is the one required. The total tax has to be something like 30%, although I believe that if we had intelligent people in parliament, taking – or more truly, being paid what they are actually worth, the total tax take could be down to maybe 20%. Don't tell me that our members of parliament are any good, if they were our country wouldn't be in this hole. To join any party, you only have to sign a form “I promise to agree with the decisions of the majority” No person who had pride in his/her integrity and was intelligent, would sign this to join any of the parties. So we get what is left over as parliamentarians to run our country. And remember, they are no better than us, they are our peers, our equals, not bosses and not very wonderful employees, With the lack of integrity and intelligence they show, no employer would employ them to work in their business. The person who made up our constitution should have put more thought into it and made sure that the conditions were at the jurisdiction of responsible people, and their remuneration was determined by their employers, not by themselves.

I should have made the article about the 66.6% tax a bit clearer, because it is obvious that some people just can't get the reasoning behind it into their head. Greedy people who can see an opportunity to grab anything valuable, grab it and some CEO's are no different. Putting that high tax on high taxable incomes, puts a bit of a damper on grabbing an extreme income that you don't need, and probably don't deserve, and it results in lower prices of goods and services. I realise that there are some who just can't get their brain around this remark, but they can try or ask help from someone.

Shadow sorry bloke but Abbott's run will be over long before the next election.
He used fear and it worked Rudd surrounded himself with cringing yes sir people and did the job on himself.
You only gave me what I expected the fear and loathing tart dressed with a few untruths conservatives have always used.
But wait, not the knives but on election night and the few days after you gave me ,and thanks for it, great joy.