Yutyusu forgive me, but I earn my living looking after trade union members.
I have every day of my life been a unionist.
NO not a radical not a worker is always right person fair go mate is my theme.
You and rechtub can not possibly know how badly low income workers suffered under workchoices.
Open your mind, understand some unions are different far different.
A Section of them are dieing they can not will not change.
But not all of them.
Mine is growing, refugees from others are coming.
I understand a fair days work for a fairs days pay is a must.
But can you see? see these very low income earners are often real victims of their poverty?
Cleaners and such are never union,they are self employed or to poor to pay dues.
Often, too often they are welfare recipients who get paid peanuts under cash in hand threats if they go public about unfair wages.
IR should not be a Battle Field.
One fine day both sides will understand the true promise in having a base minimum wage and that enterprise bargaining is the best way to increase productivity not slashing workers income while CEO gets over paid.
We are dealing with fellow humans not objects, rechtub bloke you have closed your mind to fairness.
By the way I am on leave but drive 400klm today for work,by invitation of a boss who wants to be sure he is doing the right thing by his workers ,such people are golden. and not uncommon, why the anti union anti worker stuff?

Belly, simply explain to me, why, when we demand a seven day society, that a coffee, a sandwich, or even a visit to the local shopping centre on a sunday should cost the employer any more than it does on any week day.

Public holidays, no worries, I have no onjections there as most food outlets get away with charging extra, but sundays baffle me.

Also, what do you propose as a support mechanisum for those employees who have lost their sunday gig, enen though they were happy with the way it was?

Some have lost as much as $200 from thier weekly wage. Many were parents working sundays while their primary earner had a day off.

Secondly, what harm can possibly be caused by school kids earning a little cash, by way of 2 hour shifts, after school and, where is the wisdom in taking that earning capacity away from the kids, which places the financial cut backs squarely on the parents.

Now if you can explain the logic in this without stating that I have lost my way, as you always do, then that would be a good change, a miricle, but still a good change.

Finnally, Madam Pm has just announced more support for older teens. I just wonder if they had been able to retain thier 2 hr shifts, if such (tax payer funded)support would be required.

Dear Belly,

Hope you have a safe trip.

Please understand that I have no issue with unions, yours in particular, so long as they are not compulsory (for either employer or employee). My issue is with the government, trampling on individuals in the name of IR laws, even and especially in non-industrial situations.

Now when you meet this golden boss who wants to do the right thing by his workers, what will you tell him when he presents cases such as the following examples?

1. My worker is an observant Jew. Working on Saturdays is out of the question, but Sundays mean nothing to him. He also has a calendar-full of sacred holidays when he cannot work, but Australian public holidays not included. He also needs extra time-off on new-moons because his morning-prayer is longer. He is happy to make up for the lost time by working on Sundays and public-holidays: Can I tweak the IR restrictions to suit his needs?

2. My worker cannot eat the food that I provide for lunch (dietary reasons). He asked me whether instead of lunch he can have a longer lunch-break, to go and get his own food. However, the union objects, claiming it is not fair and all other workers must get the same lunch-break.

3. I own a gas-station. This lady wants to do night-shifts there, but for ethical reasons is unwilling to sell cigarettes. I explained to her that it would cause me to lose some customers and she replied that she will be happy to compensate me for that financially. However, that would bring her wage below the legal minimum.

You still talk of "both sides", wishing to stop the "battle". I appreciate your good-work in classic-industrial battle-situations, but you said no word about those cases where there are no battles in the first place, where employer and employee are harmoniously on the same side to begin with, and only the government disturbs the peace. I understand that some people (you mentioned cleaners) are unhappy, but surely that is no reason to impinge on the rights of happy people.

Dear Yuyutsu
I suspect much of that happens already behind doors and if the relationship is one of mutual agreement I can't see a problem but the fact these arrangements might exist outside the law makes it prohibitive. There also may be cases where these arrangements may set precedents for other employees - but I do understand your point of view.

There could be a better system that allows for some flexibility while still adhering to some basic IR principles - I know the system is not perfect. It probably will never be perfect while human beings don't always fulfill their responsibilities - employees and employers both have obligations.

yutyusu if the worker was one of my members and you had your business in my area here is what we could do.
In fact unless the union you deal with is a rat bag group
you can do this now.
I and worker would set out times he could not work, put that to you.
You would be able to put hours you need worked out side his normal times, maybe a small place he could heat or cook his needed food.
Work hours can be extended right now so a longer lunch can be taken mostly such lunch is unpaid in any case.
NOTHING is imposable with good will on both sides the BOOTS test better of over all, is in place it does not need massive or even big wage increases.
Look at it find your options , at some time in the future I will start an IR thread after the election, I had a very wet trip near flood rain in parts of the north coast of NSW thanks.
good meeting no problems all happy coffee was good too.

Now for rechtub, I was so mum said born on the floor of a butcher shop.
Hope it was not a Saturday, way back then work week included 4 hours on Saturday a working week of 44 hours.
Now it is 36 hours for some 35 and those hours helped this country develop a recreational live style.
Can you find me on Sunday a coffee shop that does not charge a premium for the service on that day?
See in time we must address penalty rates, I have tried to explain annualized salary, same rate for every hour worked you failed to understand.
Our whole life style rotates around our kids and family.
Weekends are meant to be with the kids at their sports and taking them to ours.
PENALTY what do you think the word means?
It is a reward for not being with your family on weekends or never seeing them at night because you are still working.
I gave up my social life for 10 and 12 hour days became the one bosses asked first to do it, but that money was earned and bought my family some things I never could without it.
I pay that premium too Sunday is my day to get that coffee and raisin toastt and pay much more for it but slavery is out of fashion the worker AND his/her boss should make an honest living.
Are you blind mate to the fact it has never been law that some MUST run small businesses?