The idea for this thread has come out of
an article thread on how our country is
perceived on the global stage. Another
poster asked me why should we care what
others thought of us, and when I tried to
answer the question I was accused of being
anti-Australian.

Anyway, this made me think that why should
the recognition of the fact that we do have
problems with social transformation and accepting
diversity in this country be taken as being
anti-Australian. Surely having pride in our
national identity and recognising that we have
problems doesn't need to be a contradition. It
shouldn't be a matter of one or the other.
Should it?

What do others think?

Hi Foxy. I read your comments in the other thread and happen to agree with you; it is important to possess national pride and take ownership of our nation acknowledging and having pride.

I would have posted a comment the other evening, however it was quite late by the time I had finished comments on the other threads previously following.

I look forward to reading others OLO comments.

Enjoy your week Foxy.

I like the easy going pride we show in this country as it is.
I am thinking now about the soccer and pubs open all night for fans from Holland Germany Spain.
Have you seen little Italy in Sydney on such a night.
I fear American style super patriotism that see,s much more internal strife among different races, even American against American.
Foxy with respect,total ,,,I will not bend to the view this country has any more difficulty with excepting others than any country.
IF doubts exist about my claim this country will have problems with one culture, we know who, if we open our eyes and look at the world, we will see our future in the Nordic country's, in Holland , in England.
From country's all over the world I welcome our new Australians, it is my love, pride, and honor at being an Aussie that drives me to refuse to let PC drive me to be ashamed at who we are.

I don't think there's a more important factor to a successful nation than it's peoples attitude towards building the nation. If OLO comments are anything to go by then I think the greatest threat to Australia comes from many who call themselves proud Australians.

Dear Foxy,

I think the biggest threat to a "real" feeling of identity to any country is the influence of the "generic" miasma that has descended upon western civilisation.
I believe one has to step out of "main street" to experience the gentle scents of what it means to be Australian. We possess an inbuilt insecurity to the flux and change that dictates the migration of humans on this planet - it has always been thus.
Let's face it, most urban westerners, whichever country they reside in, lead very similar lives. They work in similar occupations, they shop in similar patterns in similar stores, they drive similar cars, their cities have similar designs, they dress alike....
It is very difficult then, for westerners who reside in urban conglomerations to feel a distinct national identity, and subsequently through insecurity, they tend to feel as if their way of life is easily threatened.
When I read the posts on OLO, those from people who have slowed down and stopped to smell the banksias are the one's whose sense of Australian identity rings true.

I don't think Australians have come to grips with what it is to be Australian. If you see Caucasian Australians on the tele with the flag draped over their shoulders then it's openly called nationalism and frowned upon by the vast majority with an opinion.

There's still a serious mistrust of immigrants - just look at the debate on asylum seekers - and there IS still and racial under-current to how the Australian society thinks as a whole. Personally, I think that comes with with the vastness of the country - geographically and culturally - and the open segregation of main stream media.

Many cultures make up this nation. Point out content on the main channels that are targeted at non-Caucasians. Usually, other cultures are aired through comedy.

Indigenous Australians are far from celebrated by main stream Australia and are either seen as a problem or pulled off the top shelf and displayed like puppets when the need arises for the international community.

Open a debate nationally on what does it mean to be Australian and I guarantee it'll turn out to be just as divisive as the immigrant debate.

Foxy,
Good Question
Poirot almost said it right for me.

I ask which Australia? The Australia of Fear, frightened of others (Muslims, boat people et al), the Luddite ( alternate power sources) ? Perhaps the one dominated by the Power mad (political partisan) induced fears to control?

Perhaps the Australia that prides itself on over rewarding the pointless physical prowess of a few genetically enabled, in meaningless feats or entertainment(?).

While studiously ignoring all that is good in the common individual

The Australia that is proud of it's culture that is steeped in blood, discrimination, prejudice?
The one that is based on exploitative Malthusian legal, financial systems?
Wantonly proffering the dubious determinist notion that “this is the way we are” so let's aggressively wallow in our short comings/myopic obsessions.

Australia is a lump of land in the pacific. One which is 60% inhospitable extremes in both terrain and climate.

Are we to take our personal IDENTITY from an inert and superficial determined location?
Are we a masochists?

Notwithstanding, I fully accept peoples right to need external confirmation of their perspectives... just not for me.

Perhaps it is/was my between cultures upbringing that make me 'the outsider' so to speak, that has given me this perspective of my identity as an individual. I simply see "Australian" as an administrative designation and meaningless beyond that.

Remember the dictum “Patriotism is the last resort of the scoundrel” it makes it's citizens more vulnerable to manipulation

Good Evening Everyone,
I must apologise for not having responded
to you all earlier, however I've spent
the entire day baby-sitting my six month
old grandson, and this is the first free
moment I've had.

Thanks to all of you who've taken
the time and trouble to respond to this
thread. It is much appreciated.

I'm well aware of the fact that some people
are a bit touchy on the subject of any sort
of criticism of our society, or of any
accusations of racism. My purpose in starting
this thread was to explore these issues in an
honest and open dialogue. I think that most
of us can admit that we're a great society,
but we're not a perfect society.

I know that multiculturalism makes quite a few
people uncomfortable because it includes conflict,
disagreements, and misunderstandings. It is complex.
But complexity is OK. Because since European
settlement, and even before that, Australia has been
host to diverse cultures and has thrived as a result.

Look at our individual differences today -
As someone said on another website, and I quote:
"There's battling farmers, bronzed beach babes,
metro latte sippers, pompous monarchists,
yuppy republicans, sporting heroes, Aussie Ockers,
tireless tradies, soccer mums, et cetera..."

We do have problems, like any other society,
but if we admit it and deal with it (as we always
have), if we continue to aspire to social cohesion,
and respect for each other and ourselves as
Australians and human beings, then we will have
a country we can all be comfortable living in.

I am proud of my contributions to my fellow Australians Individual and proud of the fact that I too contributed towards making this country better. After all without some type of pride [minus the ego]respect and ownership of being an Australian; as opposed to owning Australia, how is one able to mix in and share any type of national togetherness to improve our country?

I believe there are many 'qualities' exhibited by most Australians that we should, as a Nation, be most proud and be proud as an Australian identity. Some of these are the following;
(i) On any occasion a major bushfire, flood or natural disaster has occurred within Australia, taking lives or people have suffered, aussies dig deep into their pockets and give, give and give. Not so in some other countries.
(ii) When shocking sad criminal or accidental situations arise, particularly those involving children, who remain living without parents, many Aussies, upon being made aware, open up their wallets and purses, to give give give and support. Not the situation in some other countries.
(iii) World wide natural disasters occur regularly. Australians open up their wallets and many volunteer, to travel and assist overseas when allowed. Our hearts open up and many of us feel the pain and suffering of other people, from all walks of life.
(iv) Most Australians I mix with through work, socially and in voluntary capacities, have 'given tremendously' to their local schools, sporting clubs, Rotary, Rotaract, or some type of organisation that assists the less fortunate and people who have suffered major losses at different times in their lives.
(v) Most of the Australians I mix with possess a great sense of humour and the majority continue to provide well for their children and families; through thick and thin, separations and divorce, bankruptcies, court cases, job losses, personal grief and loss. The majority, I have witnessed, meet their childrens physical needs and most parents attempt to meet their childrens emotional needs. However, there is always room for improvement in this fast paced life of technology [on many occasions the enemy] within the workplace!

These are just a few things most Australians support regularly and we should be proud of our country's people, particularly when we stop and observe how most of us react during times of disaster or when able to assist other people in unique sad and horrific situations.

Most Australians have beautiful hearts; let us not overlook this fact.

Dear We Are Unique,

Of course let us not forget the good that
most people do. At the same time, admitting
social and political inequalities and the fact
that those inequalities feed separateness and
can lead to intolerance, racism and reactionary
violence is also part and parcel of our society.

Recognising a country's problems is not about
being reactionary or anti Australian. As I wrote
earlier it is about aspiring to social cohesion
and respect for each other and ourselves as
Australians and as human beings. An expectation
that we should all be some kind of "same"
is not only impossible, but it also lacks
integrity.

We are a great society, but we're not a perfect
society. We should recognise the pluses, by all
means, but at
the same time we should also recognise the problems
as well so that we can deal with them .

Foxy says:

//Surely having pride in our
national identity and recognising that we have
problems doesn't need to be a contradition.//

This is quite correct in my view.
The problem comes when the 'problems' are blown up and exploited by nefarious political groups with the intent of undermining our sovereignty.

"Assylum seekers" would be one hot issue where this takes place.

Dear AGIR,

There was an excellent article
in, "The Age," Saturday, July 10, 2010. In
the "Insight" section, page 8.

The article states that, " ... a debate about
stopping the boats is as cruel as it is absurd.
...both sides of politics must lay out policy
ground rules that meet Australia's legal and
humanitarian obligations. Unless the debate is
to be about withdrawing from the United Nations
Refugee Convention, Labor and the Coalition need
to explain how they intend to meet the legal
obligations of being a signatory. Under the Howard
government, Australia was reckless in this regard
and its policies caused enormous human misery..."

Whatever system is in place, as "The Age," points
out, Australia is legally bound to assess each
asylum claim on its merits.

It is a complex issue to both political parties,
especially with an election just
around the corner.

As a CONSTITUTIONALIST I am too well aware Australians have an identity crisis not knowing their true identity and on my blog http://www.scribd.com/InspectorRikati I have posted articles about this.
“Australian citizenship” is constitutionally not a nationality but rather embraces a persons political standing such as franchise.
The true constitutionally national flag remains to be the Union Jack and so also the national anthem God safe the Queen.
And Edmund Barton, born in NSW, made clear on 2 March 1898 “we are all alike Subjects of the British Crown”, and no s.128 referendum can change this!
Those who don’t know or don’t understand this simply better go back to sleep while people more alert at least are aware what is constitutionally applicable. The commonwealth of Australia is not a country, dominion, kingdom, dominion, empire but is nothing else but a POLITICAL UNION as like the European Union!

Dear Mr Gerrit H Schorel-Hlavka,

This thread is actually about our
international reputation on the global stage,
and the way that we're perceived overseas,
and why we should be concerned about it.
It is not about the Constitution
of Australia, but Thank You for your input
nevertheless.

I rather like Dennis Pryor's
summary of the "Constitution of Australia,"
which he sums up in his satirical dictionary,
"Political Pryorities: How to get on top of
Australian Politics," (with his tongue lodged
firmly in his cheek - where he exposes all the
vanity and hypocrisy of our leaders, bureaucrats,
journalists, and party hacks). Pryor tell us that:

" The Constitution of Australia -
A document providing a sumptuous living for lawyers
since its invention by the British Parliament in
1900. Written in clogged legalese (the American
constitution begins 'We the people,' the
Australian "Whereas the people,") it is a
promiscuous combination of USA Federalism and the
Westminister System. The founding fathers designed
it to keep power in the hands of the states and to
make constitutional changes as difficult as possible.
It contains a number of booby traps such as the powers of
the Senate and the reserve powers of the Crown which
were used to dismiss a government which still had a
majority in the House of Representatives..."

.
HANSARD 8-3-1898 Constitution Convention Debates (Official Record of the Debates of the National Australasian Convention)
QUOTE Mr. ISAACS.-
We want a people’s Constitution, not a lawyers’ Constitution
END QUOTE
.
HANSARD 17-3-1898 Constitution Convention Debates
QUOTE Mr. DEAKIN.-
What a charter of liberty is embraced within this Bill-of political liberty and religious liberty-the liberty and the means to achieve all to which men in these days can reasonably aspire. A charter of liberty is enshrined in this Constitution, which is also a charter of peace-of peace, order, and good government for the whole of the peoples whom it will embrace and unite.
END QUOTE
.
HANSARD 17-3-1898 Constitution Convention Debates
QUOTE
Mr. SYMON (South Australia).- We who are assembled in this Convention are about to commit to the people of Australia a new charter of union and liberty; we are about to commit this new Magna Charta for their acceptance and confirmation, and I can conceive of nothing of greater magnitude in the whole history of the peoples of the world than this question upon which we are about to invite the peoples of Australia to vote. The Great Charter was wrung by the barons of England from a reluctant king. This new charter is to be given by the people of Australia to themselves.
END QUOTE
.
It is not the constitution that is at fault but the people who are abusing/misusing their powers and for the outside world we better get it right so we do not remain to be a laughing stock not even knowing our own identity.

Our identity in 1777 was different to our identity in 1820. Our identity in 1820 was different to our identity in 1880. Our identity in 1880 was different to our identity in 1920. Our identity in 1920 was different to our identity in 1960. Our identity in 1960 was different yo our identity in 1990. Our identity in 1990 was different to our identity in 2010.

ALL countries go through major changes. NO country remains untouched by change.

If someone loves this country just the way it is now, then something can be absolutely 100% guaranteed ............ at some stage in the future our country will NOT be the way it is "now". As sure as the sun rises, as sure as we need air to breathe, "CHANGE" is a part of everyday existence in EVERY country.

Some people have real and serious problems with accepting and recognising the inevitability of "change". They want things to remain forever just as they are, or just as they were in some type of Utopian past. Guess what folks? That will NEVER happen. It NEVER has happened, and it's not happening now. "Change" is a part of life itself.

National identities are constantly changing, have done so since the beginning, and will continue to do so forever.

Dear benq,

Brilliant!

Absolutely brilliant!

Bravo, well said!

The only constant is change.

Spot on!

cont'd ...

Australia remains a magnet to people all
over the world who are willing to risk the
wrenching step of changing one homeland
for another in order to better their lives.
Patterns of immigration to Australia have
altered markedly in the past decades, and
this change has had pervasive effects on
the racial and ethnic composition of the
Australian people.

As has always been the case in Australian
history, the prospect of "alien"
immigration is provoking some anxiety among
some of the existing population. A good deal
of local prejudice and sometimes outright
hostility is directed towards asylum seekers
or "boat people." Opinion polls, too, show
wariness on this issue, making it one of
the issues in the upcoming Federal election.

It is ironic that, is such attitudes would
of prevailed in the past, the ancestors of
many of today's Australians would never have
been able to immigrate to Australia in the
first place.