Dr Robert Bowman was an USA Airforce Lieutenant Commander of 101 combat missions for his country.He has a PHD in Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering.Dr Bowman noticed a radical shift in US foreign policy with the Reagan administration when they saw the policy of pre-emptive wars as a solution to US security.We now see today the folly of such policies.

see http://www.thepatriots.us/left_and_right_together.html

Dr Bowman says we must demand that Govt;
(1)follows the Constitution
(2) honours the truth
(3) serves the people

In the light of the move Globalistion,our Govt here has also failed us.Even more disturbing is that we do not have formal constitution that delineates the freedoms and rights of the individual.

Dr Bowman,"There is no longer Republican or Democrat,conservative or liberal,left or right.There are only we the patriots,speaking the truth and taking back our country."

Do we Australians have enough wisdom and courage to do likewise?

Do we Australians have enough wisdom and courage to do likewise?
Arjay,
I sincerely hope so but evidence suggests otherwise. Sorry !

The question is not can we debate an answer here but rather does the general population really want to know? I would suggest no. I don't find that i get much encouragement as i travel around, most people believe the fear campaigns that drive the pre-emptive mentality and by doing so create self fulfilling prophecies.
War is money and that money drives an economy that is crumbling under it's own weight. I am talking of the US. Here in Australia we are so convinced that unless we stay tight to the yanks and do as we are told the asians will come and get us. This attitude has made us a very poor friend to the US, the type that let's their best mate drive drunk. Our blind faith in the US system of globalisation and manipulation of world affairs has left our society paranoid and jumping at shadows.
If their really is a way forward for us here in this country then we need to find some intestinal fortitude and start voting in a way that will really hurt the government and opposition, but while we keep returning polls that show we are scared that a few boat people constitute a major security risk and that China are trying to invade because they offer aid without a condescending tone then the governments of all colours will continue to feed on our fear.

Such things begin with 'one'.... I'm up for it :)

but.. I sense Arjay ... you vision might be a bit different from mine.

You are a bit toooo deep into conspiracy lala land for me.. and that's something as I'm quite a Beck/Oreilly fan :)

This is how the lunatic left treat Orielly.. amazing stuff.

1/ Oreilly makes assertion "But our US troops committed war crimes..and perpetrated a massacre at Malmedy during the battle of the bulge.. slaughtering German soldiers who had surrended.

2/ Keith Olberman of 'Countdown' show goes to great pains of mocking Orielly.. showing clearly that it was the reverse that actually happened.. it was SS soldiers who gunned down American troops who had surrendered.

Olberman waxes eloquent and long.. wallowing in his own arrogant swill, pandering to his salivationg "gocha orielly" audience with harping that Orielly was not only wrong once..BUT TWICE at different times on the same issue....

PAUSE.... dig...dig... dig a bit more..and VOILA.. we come up with....THIS!

In his book called "The Other Price of Hitler's War: German Military & Civilian Losses Resulting from WW 2," author Martin Sorge wrote the following regarding the events that took place after the massacre:

"It was in the wake of the Malmedy incident at Chegnogne that on New Year's Day 1945 some 60 German POWs were shot in cold blood by their American guards. The guilt went unpunished. It was felt that the basis for their action was orders that no prisoners were to be taken."

CONCLUSION.
a) yes.. there WAS a 'German SS massacre of Americans'
b) Yes..there WAS also a massacre of Germans by Americans..

Orielly is 100% CORRRRRRRECT!

Oooooo...I can't wait for the video version showing Olbermann in full flight.. like he's just eaten tweeey and Granny didn't see... only to have it fly back in his own liberal face with the above :)

Given that on any subject different views will be strongly held.
Given that each side will believe they have right on their side.
I think the west should bury deeply every thought of letting minority's control our actions.
We know it is wrong to torture prisoners,and that it is wrong to cut the heads of screaming prisoners.
We understand [well some do] Afghanistan and Iraq have been costly mistakes.
But one side says get out now the other warns it may be our streets that see human bombs if we come home.
The Americans have even more voices shouting advice ,even more views, I am content not to look there for our answers.
EVERY view has Merritt and it may be the minority one that wins, but without doubt PC is just one way of getting control from those things we should save our country.

Interesting article Arjay but one of the problems with the term 'patriot' is that anyone can subscribe to it. Patriotism can encompass a number of ideological viewpoints all believing their stance is the patriotic one eg. racism is often defended as patriotic as is fighting unwinnable or illegal wars.

The world patriot is often misused.

I agree with the premise of your topic and that is those who 'serve' us often act as would-be-dictators making decisions at the behest of global and corporate interests.

Many elected representatives I think believe this kowtowing to vested interests is in the people's best interests often falling victim to fear ie. "what if" they ignored the self-interests of corporations and jobs were lost. This is evident in the fear mongering with the mining tax in Australia.

Others may be corrupted or mislead, either way the interests of the people are often not served.

I note though that Bowman supports the right to bear arms (gun ownership) despite this being one of the biggest problems in the US - what about a vote to let the people decide if he is so interested in "serving the people".

Bowman makes some good comments about foreign debt, trade and better care for veterans which are all worthy but I wonder if his desire to serve Americans will outweigh the rights of other nations in trade relationships. Does his form of patriotism mean lesser rights for foreigners or other nations in serving the best interests of the American people.

I don't know the answer but I would be careful first in championing someone without scrutinising exactly what his agenda might be.

Individual,you just cannot give up and leave it all to the facists.This is the most crucial time in our history.We either bite the bullet and take them on or become some whimpering simpering slaves of a corrupt global corporate system.

nairbe;History has not be taught well or revealed the true facts of how our Gopvts constantly use false flag attacks to justify imperial invasions.We have not been taught about the unfair system of fractional reserve banking,or how our Govts get into bed with corporates to reduce wages and attack individual rights.

AIR,Something you'd better learn quickly.911 treachery is no longer in the realm conspiracy theory.The laws of physics,chemistry,video evidence,witnesses etc make it conspiracy fact.Over 1200 Architects and engineers,400 scientists,hundreds of pilots,academics etc do not believe the official conspiracy therory.It is pure balderdash.

Pelican,Bush's perversion of the word ie "The Patriot Act" does not warrant its exclusion from our language.Dr Bowman in my view is a person of genuine integrity.We are the cross roads in our history and the choice is freedom or facism.It will only change as always from a grasss roots level.

Unless the PM is activating the provisions of an existing treaty (as Howard did with ANZUS recently) he/she cannot order a pre-emptive strike on anyone without a state of war having been declared first.

Declaration of a state of war can only happen with the approval of Parliament, without it the Commander in Chief of Australia’s Defence Forces would never approve the deployment, she would simply order the PM to obtain Parliaments approval first and the Chief of Defence Force Staff would never obey an order to commit to such an action without the Commander in Chiefs approval. Checks and balances are in built and are very difficult to bypass, unless of course you’re talking about complete corruption at all levels?

In your comparisons of US society to Australian society you make the assumption that the two are “alike”. Curiously this is something that many Australians do and at first glance we may appear to be alike, but I’m afraid nothing could be further from the truth as there is a considerable divide such as the US 1839 “manifest destiny doctrine” allegedly a divine gift to rule the world, expounded by Presidents Wilson and Reagan, US military exploits/deployments and expansionist policies know no rival on the planet, US constitutional precepts, statutes and societal morals/values/religions differ from Australia’s, the US has been for all its history in a state of perpetual war. The first settlers of the US were mainland European puritan fundamentalist refugees from the fanatical religious wars of Europe, Australia’s were mainly British. These are huge differences that render the appearance of likeness to that of two magnetic poles of the same polarity that constantly repel each other.

However, if you mean that Australians have a penchant that has developed into an aspiration to assimilate all things US, then it should be discouraged in favour of encouraging, reassuring Australian values instilling confidence in and reliance on our own abilities. So in this respect, yes we can take back the country. As to Australia’s constitutionally guaranteed rights and freedoms, they do exist and you can read them here;

http://www.dfat.gov.au/facts/democratic_rights_freedoms.html

Westralis.We are the lap dog of the USA and it's corportate masters.Where they go to war, we follow.

If you read Dr Bowman's article,we have all the entrapments and enlavements of the USA,both monetary and within our laws/regulations.

The USA constitution has been trashed by the Patriot Act and Bush's Presidential Orders.It is almost a police state and we are not far behind.

Arjay,
Your tittle for the thread is not original, but no matter.

I recognised the tittle from a country song and i think this old girl is not a bad singer and the tune is catchy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2G3wGVAnlQ

To a large extent Western Civilization is cactus. Social engineers have brainwashed a couple of generations to loathe everything about what made the West so prosperous and champion what made other nations so backward. The irony is that these socialist have greatly benefited and enjoyed the benefits of societies based largely on biblical principles. Now they despise these principles because they know that there own lifestyles are in contradiction to everything decent. Often they join 'environmental' causes and preach a self righteousness to others based on lies. In their eyes the person who works hard, is faithful to their spouse and opposed abortion and homosexuality and the Islamisation of our nation are the enemy. Many posters on OLO fall into that category.

I am convinced we have never had a perfect nation but on the whole we have been a tolerant peace loving nation. These days we are tolerant of everything that is intolerable. No amount of changes to constitutions will change deluded hearts. The Lord Jesus Christ is our nations only hope. All man's efforts at self righteousness is delusional

The author is certainly right when she writes

'As we feminists know simply having a woman in charge is not enough.'

No she is not happy with a couple of sheilas as Premiers and now Prime Minister. It has to be her type of feminist. Feminist will not be happy until the abnormal becomes normal (i.e. that women wear the pants in every area of life). With so many weak emasculated males in our society it is no wonder we are now being hen pecked from the highest levels. It is a win for the feminist but a great loss for the kids of our nation.

Dear Arjay,

"Patriotism," wrote Samuel Johnson,
"is the last refuge of a scoundrel."
I guess he was pointing out that partiotism,
like other emotional attitudes, sometimes
becomes exaggerated or distorted.
Demands for open and public demonstrations
of loyalty are often heard in times of
national crisis. During World War I, for
example, King George V of Great Britain
changed the family name of the royal family
from Saxe-Coburg to Windsor. The name
Saxe-Coburg was German, and Britain was at
war with Germany. Then during World War II,
thousands of patriotic Japanese-Americans
were placed in detention camps because of
unreasonable fears that they might be loyal
to Japan than to the US.

Of course we can't regard critics of any
country as "questionable" patriots.
As Adlai Stevenson points out, "What were
Washington and Jefferson and Adams but
profound critics of the colonial status quo?"

We surely would be a lot poorer without the
questioning of public intellectuals like,
Bertrand Russel, Jean Paul Sartre, Albert Camus,
John Maynard Keyes, Herbert Marcuse, Norman Mailer,
Noam Chomsky, Jack Kerouac, Vance
Packard, John Kenneth Galbraith, and more recently
Tor Hundloe, Richard Dawkins, Henry Reynolds,
Waleed Aly, David Marr, and many others.

"Breathes there a man with soul so dead
Who never to himself hath said,
This is my own, my native land!
Whose heat hath ne'er within him burn'd
As home his footsteps he hath turned
From wandring on a foreign strand?"
(Sir Walter Scott).

A few posters to this thread have commented on globalisation.
Not to worry, it is already ending.
Previously O had noted that both furniture and steel manufacturing
had moved back to the US from China. This was because of rising shipping costs.
Now I notice China is now buying into the US steel industry.
Hmmm is that a straw in the wind ?

Foxy ,If you read Dr Bob bowman's article,you would have understood he was talking about being true to your fellow man.It had nothing to do with war mongering or flag waving.Being patriot has many meanings like the word love.Love can be lustful and self destructive as well as being a positive force.Being Patriot to your country means in this instance being true and faithful to your own people.Globalisation via a world Govt is a devisive totalitarian philosophy.It will be our worst nightmare.

Globalisation is not dead.The Global Reserve banking system has a strangle hold on our Govts and economies.Why did Labor go to China to borrow money when it could have been generated here and kept under control via interest rates?

Foxy's apt description of patriotism historically, is spot on, but at least the Americans
have a "Bill of Rights".

I guess, you would have to support such a bill in it's entirety, if you are going to
support a bill of rights at all. Hence Dr Bowman's support for bearing arms?.
The U.S. bill of rights has it's flaws and requires further amendment.
Run that past your patriots!.

Of course freedom is not best expressed or ensured ,by, or with the barrel of a gun as proposed by the U.S bill of rights.
There is no connection between the actual civil rights a person has, and his individual capacity to defend or support them.

In fact being armed in America probably increases the possibility of being killed
but not much else.

In Australia we would have to start with a Bill of Rights and then have a "new
mainstream party" that supports it's implementation.

I doubt, that either major party would advocate or support such a proposition today.

Could and should this be a rallying point for those who feel as Arjay questions,
"do the people of Australia need their country back?". I think we do!.

Thinker, bearing arms is a double edged sword.In this present time in our history,thank your god that the US people still have that right, since Bush has wrought a totalitarian system of his "Patriot Act" that negates habeous corpus.The US now has "preventative denention" whereby those who are suspected of being terrorists can be incarcerated indefinitely without trial.

Now Obama wants to legalise assassination of suspected terrorists.Which part of totalitarian facism do you not understand?

Bearing arms in the USA at this present time in our history, keeps the corporate facists and their compliant oligarchs in fear of the consequences of their avarice and power lust.John Howard took away our arms after Port Author.When push comes to shove,force prevails.

If you want your freedoms,you will have to will have to fight for them.The price is eternal vigilance.

Dear Arjay,

I read not only the link you provided,
but I'm also familiar with Robert Bowman
and what he's advocating. Perhaps if you
re-read my earlier post - you may grasp
the points that I was trying to make.
Especially concerning the abuses of
patriotism.

The word "patriotism" comes from the Greek
word, "patris," which means "fatherland."
Its the love and loyal support of one's
country. It includes attachment to a
country's land, and people, admiration for
its customs and traditions, pride in its
history, and devotion to its welfare. The
term suggests a feeling of oneness with the
nation - that is why I also included the poem
by Sir Walter Scott in my earlier post.

As for wars and flag waving, well in wartime,
as students of history are well aware,
patriotic songs and slogans have helped unite
citizens in support of their country. Strange
though, many have said that they're prepared to
die for their country but no one ever says they're
prepared to kill for it. I guess that only confirms
the fact that while most people agree that patriotism
involves serving one's country, many disagree on how
they can best perform this service. Some might say
that the national government speaks for the country,
and that the people should therefore actively support
all government policies and actions. Others like
Bowman argue that a true patriot will speak out if
convinced that the country is following an unjust
or unwise course of action.

"What's in a word? A rose by any other another name would smell as sweet." Foxy ,you dwell too much on the literal meaning of the tools of meaning,rather than reading between the lines.

What say you about the real perpetraitors of poverty in our financial system who steal via stealth,ie counterfeiting our currency? Do you understand this reality?

Dear Arjay,

I understand the reality only too well.
We lived and worked in the US for close
to ten years and it was quite an education.
It also inspired in me a thirst for knowledge.
And, an awareness that it isn't enough to
condemn. One needs to look critically at
motivation, circumstances, context, or any
other consideration before one can make
intelligent judgements. Otherwise it can all
too easily lead to the questionable practice
of stereotyping.

A Rose by any other name?

"Cradled by the earth's warm body
Nourished on the richness of its soil
Surviving the summer storms
The biting wind, winter's harsh breath

Its petals succulent, soft, crimson in colour
Hiding an unknown magic
Innocence contained
The line, smooth and delicate

Coming to full bloom
With the sun's gentle touch
The slender beauty of a bud no longer
A rose grown to its height, formed by nature
to beautify

How often, but temporarily?

How often is this child of nature's
torn from its mother's limbs?
No longer to share her children
And bask in the glory of the sun.

Lifted out of their midst
Into the darkness of artificial light
To briefly bring warmth,
Colour and life into a man made home

Destiny, a web cruelly woven
A pattern ending on a waste heap
In some deserted garden spot
Nature's torment not yet ended

Where once if temporarily
Shone the beauty of a rose
Stands a plastic replacement
Perfectly crafted, yet hiding a promise
it never can keep!"
(Written in 1989).

I am one of those who have lost confidence with the members of the political parties who have got into power since 1970, I have found that they have no knowledge, intelligence, loyalty or decency when looking at the morass they have driven the economy into for our workers and small business - as well as others. The big demand that we keep exporting more and more of our non-renewable and non-value-added resources, is only the demand of idiots or total traitors. Apart for the fact that coal sold by BHP for $US98/tonne, and resold to Pohang from Sth. Korea, for an estimated $US308.70 / tonne, the payment to the mining companies and the Government, for these exports, is made by the prices we pay for the imports from those countries whether it is China, Japan, USA, UK, Germany or whoever. I don't deny that those people who are employed by the mining companies and those maintaining the equipment need consideration, however it would be much better if they were justly employed in Australian manufacturing for providing a good economy and environment for our descendants and for their future; the export mining won't provide for that. I suspect that the wind farms and solar power is sufficient for domestic and small business, but would be inadequate for heavy industrial machinery, but would a big help. Our main problem comes mainly from the intelligence – or lack of , by the people “chosen by the political parties to be our representatives” in parliament. There is no way can those people chosen, properly represent a true section of the Australian community, there are too many lawyers for one thing, and as for them being the major part of our present PM and treasurer and previously ones as well, particularly since the 1970's, when the economy, intelligence, decency and really - all things relative to a successful progressive country, have been put into the old dunny can and thrown into the river.

Foxy,I like your poem.

The most important key to this whole deception is WTC 7.It was the third building on 911 that came down in a controlled demolition style which no plane impacted.It took 6 yrs for NIST to release a sham report which even it admits it is flawed and cannot explain the collapse.

From 911 came the invasion of Afghanistan,Iraq, Pakistan and now are looking for excuses to invade oil rich Iran.

Don't forget Prof Neils Harritt will be at Sydney 17/7/10 this weekend; 280 Pitt St Sydney,to present his proof of explosives used in the World Trade Centre. See http://www.911oz.com

Dr Bob Bowman also lists this in his article as a major issue.He says we need a new independant investigation.

Foxy says:

Then during World War II,
thousands of patriotic Japanese-Americans
were placed in detention camps because of
unreasonable fears that they might be loyal
to Japan than to the US.

Interesting conundrum.... often wonder how I'd act if PM during a similar time.

But perhaps such actions result from other 'actions' which in turn stem from the racial and religious background of certain segments of the community.

The middle east is a classic.

Australia is basically pro Israel.....

there are seditious segments which are 'pro Palestinian' and they make their voices and wishes heard.. seeking to overturn government policy.

If it came to serious war where Australia was an Ally with Israel in a conflict with some Arab Country....on which side would they be ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QO2dX91xwe0&feature=related

Imagine if some elements of British society poured onto the streets and yelled "FREE FREE SUDETENLAND"......just prior to that political zealot Adolph taking the initiative and 'liberating' it from 'oppression' in the name of 'freedom for German people'

Dear Arjay,

I value your opinion.
You've given me much to think about.

Dear AGIR,

Your comprehension and rationalization of the
Japanese internment camps of American citizens
in the US - is truly quite beyond belief. I imagine
you could find a way to explain to Holocaust
survivors that the current government at that
time in Germany had good reasons for doing
what it did. Or that the Soviet Union had
every right to do what it did in its Gulags.
After all both governments were only "protecting their
interests," according to your given arguments.
I wonder though what the victims of these actions
would have to say to you?

Boaz: << there are seditious segments which are 'pro Palestinian' and they make their voices and wishes heard.. seeking to overturn government policy. >>

Why is it "seditious" to disagree with Australia's support of Israel? I was under the impression that this is a relatively free society where the electorate is quite entitled to question government policy, as long as they do so lawfully.

When you stage one of your silly attention-seeking protests that you brag about here, are you being "seditious"?

Why do you people continue to pay attention to Boaz/ploycarp/agir? He's got you all JUST where he wants you . . . . . paying attention to **HIM**. The best way to handle that type fundamentalist loony (whose brain is fed and controlled by the USA fundamentalist religious right), is to ignore him. His attitudes have nothing in common with the God he falsely claims to worship. The USA fundamentalist religious right is basically a **POLITICAL** organisation formed from the breakaway fundamentalist religious movement in the USA over 100 years ago. Just like the fundamentalist Muslim movement, they use God's name to proffer inhumane and controlling political and social agendas. Fundamentalists, whether they claim to be Christian or Muslim, are not Christians or Muslims; they are "fundamentalists". . . . radicals. The underlying philosophy being that if the world was under "their" control, then God's word would be done.

Foxy,"You value my opinion." Thank you.I'm just trying to create awareness.We are the crossroads of avery important time in our history.We could in the West,go the way of many totalitariarn countries.It will be our worst nightmare.The Oligarchs control our Govts.We only have to look ar our leaders.Julia Gillard makes announcements form the Lowy Institute,an ultra ring wing institute.We hear on our media ABC etc reps from the Lowy Institute setting the agenda on opinion.

Merv09.Welcome to OLO.There is much work to be done.Change will only come at a grass roots base ie from the people.

Perhaps the totalitarian era has already arrived in Australia Arjay, and its already too late.
As you say the announcements from the Lowy Institute etc and then setting the agenda.

It's scary stuff for mine and I'm not satisfied that either side of politics can best represent Australia currently
as both sides sing from the same hymn book.

The forthcoming election is like a grand final where both sides are wearing the same guernsey.

What can we do about this, ? that is the question Arjay, Foxy (great poem too) and others.

With democracy as our only instrument, how does a majority have it's voice heard?.

Are you allowed to write "none of the above" on your ballot paper.

And if a majority of people did this, would electoral democracy (for once)
be a true representation of the peoples will?.

Could we then stop, and find out through peoples conference (or similar)
" just what it actually is", that we the majority would want for our country's
future, independence and sovereignty etc.

Seems like a stupid idea, I admit it, but frankly, I for one as a long term supporter of
a major political party will not abide voting for them again, and as for the Greens
they're at least third of the unsuitable choices.

So what can a voter do when no one represents your viewpoint?.

thinker 2,thanks for your contribution.The key to open people's mind is WTC 7.The evidenece is clear and irrefutable.Once people digest this reality then they are ready for the enormity of this betrayal and oppression.

The other major area of attack is the banking system.The international Res Banks,IMF,World Bank, Bank of International Settlements are the financial source of this power that steal from us through the creation too much inflationary money.People have to be made aware of how the fractional reserve system of banking works to steal money via stealth.

Net working is the way to go. http://www.911oz.com Luke Rudowski's http://www.wearechange.org/
Richard Gage's http://www.ae911truth.org/ http://www.globalresearch.ca
http://mycatbirdseat.com/ Webster Tarpley http://www.tarpley.net/

These are good sites.Perhaps you can suggest some others.