maybe loners frighten people[or maybe others insanities/but then who to judge,in seeking answer..i return to the quote

<<..whether/and how individual qualities..scale up to social qualities...For instance/..whether a group of wise individual..would emerge and act as a wise group.>>...the reply is that we we think ourselves to be...is comprised of trillions of other/individual units...each specialised/suited to do its purpose

<<Or to put it/in a more general-frame,..can a group benefit..from the individual.."social qualities"..of its participants?>>it would seem that the individual/generally has more to gain from a group/..modified of course/in that all of the group/arnt equally equal or indeed equally benificient

but then what is evil/good...for some an excuse to do its opposing[for others to judge/themselves...better[while on the self...lets se that you/or me...are composed of trillions of individual cells...[that the self can feel...alone becomes revealed as absurd]

<<since we naturally advocate>>anything that makes us feel good/or better see...<<<that if we want a group..to have such/or such quality,individuals/..need to get these qualities first.

<<Then.."maybe not"...A group of smart people/doesn't necessarily become smart...>>.or inded smarter simply by being/part of>>..A group

<<people with the best of qualities,well-intentioned,experienced,>>.of good intent/yet may allow the grossest of abuses be done...in their name...<<might or might not become useful.

<<Often,..what the group is,..and how functional/or successful..it/is,..doesn't relate,directly to the qualities/of its members...Or,rather,..we often can't guess>>.predict?<<..at the relationship/between the individuals..and the group.

<<On a more practical perspective,..is it possible/to envision emerging properties..as the result of the mastering..of these properties/at an individual level?..Do these properties..have to be value-oriented?

<<Will a group of wise individuals/turn into a wise group..or can it turn..in a globalised/mess..EVEN/with umpredictable side effects?

<<Maybe there could be/ways of individually mastering certain qualities,..which then translate..into emergent properties/of a very well functioning group.>>.if there is no ego/no us/them

<<It probably..just isn't..the kind of qualities we normally would cultivate..individually...A different kind of qualities.>>.its interesting/im looking to slip in that each individual/not only is made up of many/bits...but each incarbnate...is the earthly representative..of a heavenly/or hellish...'group'...

we individually provide expression for[on the personal level/two join together/but in the reaklms...great masses unite

<<Some people/typically do very well..in being catalysts/or collaborators in groups.>>>take gods many messengers

<<But usually/only in certain kinds of groups...If a person/has well cultivated qualities/and skills..that match/..what fits..with the other members/and the group itself,..then it works.

<<But not in groups/with very different kinds of members.>>>so the theory/goes...lol

<<Few people/have any clue/how to be part of..the success of ANY group...And maybe the attempt..of cultivating that/would be the wrong way of looking at it.

<<So,it might be/more about..how one finds who/and what..one fits with/..the people/and circumstances..one will resonate with,..and where collective-intelligence..will emerge/rather than/trying to become..a perfect component..in everything possible.

And what fits/might change from moment to moment...So it is about being able to find it..right now.>>>live time in gods living moment/now

<<Right now..there are some things/you..can do,..some ways/of doing it,..some people..to do it with,..that would produce/absolutely marvelous results,..rather easily...The Flow.

<<If you are flexible/and multi-dimensional/enough..to be open to something different/than you know,..and your perceptions are keen enough/to notice..where the/energetic point/of leverage..is right now,..it might be very different.

<<That's very different/from what both individual..and social holons were supposed to be about.

<<It's neither...It's an ad-hoc holon..willing to re-invent itself anytime...Being part of/something bigger than itself,..where there's the most synergy, action,/excitement.

<<And conscious enough/to catch a different/a better wave..when it appears.>>.even if you didnt create it

Dear Poirot,

I don't think I or my family were "eccentric,"
just not the accepted norm of suburban society
where we lived. For starters we spoke several
languages at home. We ate food that was
considered "different." I dressed differently,
from the other children at school. I behaved
differently, in that I questioned everything.
Even my school lunches were "different."
At high school, I stood out because of my height,
and constantly asking questions, which the teachers
found to be a pain.
I loved books, literature, the theatre, and listening
to storytellers - especially - my grandmother, who was the
best.

I believe that I am here as
part of a larger picture. That my entity is a part of an
energy of which there are many parts.
My life has had to take a certain turn,
as it will continue to do.

However, I do believe that it is my responsibility
to make the choices in my life that I feel are
necessary for me to be the kind of
person that I am. All of us live and die, and
we live life as we feel we have to live it
if we feel decency, honor, respect, compassion, truth, love,
sympathy,and empathy. All of those are the forces, energies,
dispositions out of which we make our choices, for they
are very real for us, and within our abilities to offer to others,
because somewhere within our individual existence is a
need for love, for compassion, for a safe harbour in the arms
of somebody.

My choice is to trust that we are
where we are, when we are, how we are,
for a reason - that each of us has a life,
lived as it was meant to be.

The public service is a very good example of where thinking outside the norm is not encouraged despite recent rhetoric for public servants to be frank and fearless and think outside the square.

Anyone who has been in the system knows it is almost impossible to swim against the tide of popular policy, budget cuts and, at worst, against the more insidious maladministration, fraudulent or empire building rorts. Those who don't conform are bullied and made to feel isolated from the pack which is why whistleblowing is a rare event.

The whistleblower is nearly always the one compelled to leave a dysfunctional workplace such as the experienced by the nurse in the Patel case.

The same is true of corporates when it comes to workplace politics, but they do offer some latitude for outside thinking if it might mean an increase in profits.

As a lifelong non-conformist I can tell you it is hard to take the disdain meted out by society in general. Tolerance is a very rare beast from where I sit. A refusal to be dominated leads to dismissal and marginalisation.
Society today is designed as a series of hierarchys and in general people are expected to be, and almost always are, submissive and obedient to those higher up the tree than them.
I just cant do it. You try and stand over me and I will resist.

I asked a wise friend of mine how do people do it? How do they get up everyday and go to a job they hate, with a boss who treats them like dirt, to slave away all day for a pittance while those at the top enjoy the fruits of the good life, AND get payed a motza to boot? Or live with a paternalistic husband or father who expects to be waited on hand and foot and will "exert" his authority at the slightest provocation. Or bow down to the highest "authority" there is and be a godbotherer.

He said that they "want" things, like a house and a car and a family, social connections, security etc etc, and are willing to degrade themselves and submit to whatever indignity to get them. Told what to wear, told how to speak, told how to think, restricted in what you can say and think (especially if "they" dont like it), told when you can eat, talk, piss.

I dont know how I became such an anti-authoritarian or why I dont "want" the same things everyone else does. I do know I am not prepared to be anyones slave no matter how much "stuff" they throw at me. I should be allowed to be myself and society should be more tolerant of difference and change.

Dear Foxy,

My reference to eccentrics was really only one example of people who choose not to conform in society,
Your family was still conforming to cultural and social norms that were inherited from past experience in another country - some, no doubt you have chosen to retain as they have meaning and resonance for you and your family. As you point out, this is something to do with making your own choices in your life.

Dear Pelican,

Your reference to the public service rings true.
Koestler writes: "If we look at any form of social organisation, from insect state to Pentagon, we shall find that it is hierarchically ordered, The same is true of the structure of living organisms and their ways of functioning - from instinctive behaviour to the sophisticated skills of piano playing and talking."
He seems to be saying that everything is a holon - that it is complete in itself, and yet it exists operationally as part of a more complex system and so on and so on...

Dear mikk,
The daily grind of a worker bee existence is instilled very young in industrial society. It is possible to do things a little differently to a certain degree if one really wants to.
My son doesn't get up in the morning and put on a uniform - his learning is effected through things that interest him - his social experiences are with people that he (with guidance from us) chooses.
We are hoping this experience of education endows him with a well developed ability to think for himself in a society that prefers that most of us take our instruction from a faceless educational bureaucracy.