Now that a leadership spill looks inevitable in the Labor Caucus the question is which of the failed policies will she dump first:

- The BER rort
- The health plan cash splash
- The mining super tax

Secondly with the BER albatross hanging around her neck can she bring any credibility to the Labor party.

Finally will the centrist voters fall behind a far left wing union activist?

Will the centrist voters fall behind HER?

Well the question won't be that will it?

The question will become will we have our first female PM

That will score a LOT of votes, straight up...

The unions will back her up BIGTIME, the Left-Wing voters (who have been previously noted down as "right-wing" - but are generally union members, the backers of One-Nation) are the ones that are going to be taken back by Labor here.

FINALLY

YES

The Maroons have won again, the Left is in power and Labor looks set to take the next Election with a proper view to where the Country should go... Wonder how comfortable Swann is with Mr Shorten waiting in the wings?

Happy days

:D

Damn, watching this speech & the Sobbing Sod - does anyone else feel a little better now that we have a Prime Minister with Balls?

OMFG, I have never seen a "Prime Minister" sob during a speech, this the 'man' who likes to drive Public Servants to and over the edge with the horrific workload 'he' throws at them, who goes off 'his' head at people with very little cause?

So what do we have? A bully? With a very-loose grip on the truth? What's that Kevin? Training schools at ALL secondary schools? Yeah, how are the ones in the Northern Aboriginal Communities staffed and equipped?

Yeah, he said "sorry" to the stolen generation... How many children have died since then due to petrol sniffing? How many boys & girls have been sexually and physically assaulted on Aboriginal Communities since then? What precisely has this "SORRY" episode done for anybody?

As for having part of someone else inside him, he should feel quite comfortable with what happened today when Shorten put him over a barrel this morning... What a blouse, I'm sorry, but I'll say it

Just listened to Julia's acceptance speach.

I must say, it filled me with as much confidence as did the one I listened to from our Queensland Anna, when she was anointed.

I see that Beattie has endorsed Julia too. That is not a good omen.

Perhaps we need to reflect on our democratic principles? If, as seems likely, the AWU has exerted significant influence on this spill, we need to think about the 15% of the non government sector that is represented by this “influence”. This would translate, in representation terms, to perhaps 5% of voters.

If this reflects the power to dismiss our elected PM, what does this say about the power to influence policy?

The power exhibited by the AWU is only exceeded by its arrogance. I’m not a supporter of KR however; I am a supporter of majority electoral representation. How will it make any difference if JG wins the next election? Will her supporting power base change its spots?

Dunno, I saw that She refused to pass the buck over the advertising campaign, She just undertook to remove it immediately.

She also stated that She is aware of the Communities concern about "Boat People" and "Border Security", which is what the majority of voters are seriously concerned about. It is not a political issue for mine, or it shouldn't be, neither party should have any intention to allow "Boat People" (or queue jumpers with dubious claims to refugee status as they should be known) to arrive in this Country, thereby entitling them to more consideration than someone who has chosen to comply with the legal requirements of seeking Asylum. That is the best outcome I can imagine, I see absolutely no reason why EITHER major party's policy should differ on that. Illegal immigrants are just that, illegal and should be dealt with as such.

She also stated that She is willing to negotiate with the Mining Companies, but that they need to negotiate or the consensus will be that of the policy makers NOW. Failure to negotiate means their views will not be taken into account. I note in passing that Mr Gutnik has bought into Phosphate Mines in this Country (after an absence) this month, obviously there are independent buyers who are not put off by the "Super Profits Tax". If the other miners want to sell out, I'm sure Mr Gutnik & others will happily buy their shares for a pittance.

As to the rest, I was quite happily suprised to see a Politician accept their share of blame for the decisions that have been made whilst She has been in Cabinet. A pleasant change, someone actually taking ownership of the problems they deal with, let's hope it continues.

She represents Union Members, She is there to ensure they are fairly treated and that we are fairly compensated for the assets that belong to all of us, and appears to be less than overwhelmed by the noisy minority opinions. I'll actually have to put in a vote that counts (for the first time in a while).

Congratulations Julia

I realise that you're over the moon about Gillard's succession as PM Custard, but what's this capitalised "She" business?

Is it short for 'She Who Must Be Obeyed', or has she achieved divine status by becoming PM?

As stated by someone on another thread, I rather think that Gillard is just Rudd in a frock and we won't see much in the way of substantial policy change. Rather, we'll see a change in leadership style - indeed, I think the reason Rudd was dumped is simply because the ALP numbers men think that Gillard is more electable according to the polls.

It's quite appalling how personality-driven Australian politics have become. While I think Gillard is likely to be at least as good a PM as Rudd (it wouldn't be hard) and certainly better than Abbott, I'd be more supportive of her if she was likely to be able to make some substantive changes to those ALP policies that suck - like the me-tooism on asylum seekers and the spinelessness on climate change, for example.

However, it ain't gonna happen. I predict a Federal election around October, with Gillard taking almost exactly the same platform to the electorate as Rudd would have, albeit in a more populist way.

C J Morgan, "I rather think that Gillard is just Rudd in a frock "

Why stoop to gender stereotyping when even the local village idiot would be aware of Julia Gillard's education, skills and her many real accomplishments?

Another self-appointed male 'feminist' with feet of clay.

Who's "gender stereotyping"? I thought I was doing quite the opposite, by pointing to the unlikelihood of substantive policy changes and to the weakness of personality politics.

Since the present government was elected, Gillard has supported and promoted exactly the same policy vacillations and bungles as did Rudd. Gillard has got the job because she's thought by the ALP number crunchers to be more personally attractive to the electorate and thus more likely to win the forthcoming election.

Her elevation has little to do with feminism, but everything to do with populism, as you well know - but you can never resist a personal snark at me, can you Corny?

C J Morgan

Once again you protest too much.

Yeah Corny - and as usual you're all snark and no substance.

Well one thing's for sure - politics
has suddenly become interesting again.
Perhaps we will now have some real debate
on issues for a change instead of just
condemnation and finger-pointing from
the opposition. Julia Gillard may be
the street fighter that can match Tony
Abbott.

I would have preferred that Kevin Rudd
was given the chance to see out his term
in office. He did achieve a great deal in his two
and a half years. However, it seems that he did
not play by the rules set down by the Labor factions.
Julia G. it seems is more of a "team player."
At least I guess from all this she's surely learned
what not to do. Kevin Rudd simply believed in getting
the job done - not playing party politics, which
ultimately was his undoing.

"Kevin Rudd - The
Biggest Loser?" Let's wait and see - it may just
be Australia who will lose the most in the end,
especially if Tony Abbott and Co. take over.

Foxy,

Julia earned a position as a partner in a law firm, which is no small feat and she has performed well in negotiations with business and unions. She is intelligent, crisp in her communication and has risen above the personal attacks on her up to now. Her speech was measured and spot on.

Although I don't always share her politics I wish her all of the best and don't doubt for a minute that her skills and aptitude for the job are well beyond those of any of the likely contenders on opposition benches.

Kevin Rudd is gracious in defeat and Julia Gillard speaks well of him. No such decency from some and already the rogue elephants are having a go at her as a woman (the 'skirt', having 'balls' and so on), what sad sacks they are.

Dear Cornflower,

I must confess that I'm totally gutted
at present. I truly liked Kevin Rudd,
and actually thought he was doing a good
job. I thought he was an excellent PM.
And a worthy Representative of Australia
on the global stage.

To me Julia Gillard is an unknown
entity - and all I can hope is that
she is indeed her own person, and not just
someone who's going to be dictated to by
the Labor factions. I realise the enormity
of her becoming Australia's first female
Prime Minister, and I do wish her well.

I totally abhor the thought of Tony Abbott
and Co taking over.

My thanks and regards to those conservatives who have placed their pain on display in this thread.
The dismay, the failure to understand politics is of huge enjoyment to me.
Poor Kev let his failures out number his achievements, he refused to be inclusive within the party room.
ALP has snatched victory from a close call with defeat and while not yet at Julia's feet I know she will re spark us and its the ETS and mining tax along with a growing fear about[ not endorsing it]boat people that pushed us near to defeat nothing else.
Again great thanks and regards conservative pain is a tonic.

Well I think this is undoing the error made originally, when the Labor Party were too gutless to put a woman up, after the miserable Beazley years.

I debated this at length on the following thread back in March 2006

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=4259&page=0#36257

That thread was a really interesting one and worth looking back on if you have the time.

Due to Labors lack of intestinal fortitude, we ended up with Rudd rather than Gillard as PM. To many it looked like Gillard was the wrong gender for the job, in the minds of the Labor elite, and so they took the soft option. Big men until they have to be brave.

The problem with this measure is that Gillard comes to the job in the shadow of Rudd's plummeting popularity and has only a very short time to turn things around.

I am thrilled that finally we have a female Prime Minister... the process wasn't the method I would have chosen but the result is excellent.

Rudd's speech last night was the best I have ever heard him speak...Tis a pity that it was his dying breath and that he hasn't shown more spunk throughout.

Swan is a mistake as deputy...Trust Labor to get it wrong again! He is not an impressive performer.

It will be interesting to see if women get behind Gillard, because in my experience, when push comes to shove, the first person generally to let down a woman is generally another woman.

How many women were against feminism, thus undermining females, because they didn't understand the purpose of it and absolute need for it?

So many women, (and the occasional forward thinking male) have fought so hard, worked so tirelessly, copped so much crap, to finally achieve this result. They have been rewarded!

I congratulate those women (and men) on this historical event.

Lastly I hope she never uses those stupid Howard words often mimicked by Rudd ...I don't apologise to anyone for........

Those words don't make you strong, they make you irrelevant.

Julia Gillard will be a better PM methinks. No-one is perfect but she brings a down-to-earth (uncontrived) persona, a consultative management style, desire for a more harmonious relationship with the public service and better grasp of program delivery. ie. not focussed on polls and image at the expense of policy, and who knows she might ensure there are enough resources to get the job done properly.

If you are going to commit to reform you cannot do it without appropriate resourcing. The people in the frontlines trained to provide those services or oversight roles. Otherwise it is just talk. This was Rudd's big mistake and I hope Terry Moran takes a lesson as well in reviewing a burgeoning SES, diverting funds to better support operational areas of public service - afterall that is what government is about - serving the public to the best of their ability.

As a fellow human being, I did feel a tad sorry for Mr Rudd at a personal level, however in the long run I believe Australia will be better off.

Wonder if Tanner will get the Treasurer's spot in a re-shuffle, that might be on the cards as well.

Julia will undoubtedly make a better leader but will she be a better PM and more importantly how does she weigh up agains't Abbott. These and many more questions to be answered in the coming months. Biggest concern is that though kevin couldn't sell airconditioning in a heat wave he was fairly independent of the factional influences while his popularity held. Julia though is a classic factional dealer and will be owing lot's for this lot.
Tanner is out didn't you hear pelican. Suppose he could do a Malcolm.
Remember as the plot thickens that the people wanted this, all the best.

I stated that Gillard had "balls" and I stand by that, do you understand what I mean by that? It is essentially "intestinal fortitude", her willingness to accept HER mistakes, to refuse to put the blame where others would have and then to stand on her principles?

That took balls, irrespective of gender.

I'm sorry, at least the AWU represents at least 5% of the eligible voters in this country. The Business Council of Australia doesn't represent 1% (actually the Unions represent far more than 5% of this Country, the AWU is the kernel from which the ALP was born). Rudd was elevated to Party Leader & then Prime Minister simply because he was endorsed by Caucus and elected by his electorate. Gillard can say the same, but at least she recognises that Her position is owed to the Unions, the Unions have always had that power (since the 1890's).

I personally am excited that the Unions are back in the drivers seat, that the irrelevant (like "Boat People", "WorkChoices" & "Work Visas" are no longer campaign issues, both major parties will address them the same way, ie.ignoring them). I am sick to death of politics in this Country being owned by "real" minorities, who have stacked enough inner-city branches to have a say far outweighing their real power. Politics in this Country just took a corner and the differences between the two parties will now lie in who they represent, the BCA & Mining Council or the Unions.

The fact the ALP has finally chosen Ms Gillard as our first Female PM, as tough and honest as Abbott, makes me happy. Now they have a real hope of retaining office. The fact the Labor Party now looks after workers, not grasping illegal immigrants, greens and wannabees, yes, it is way overdue. Let the Greens choose their own side, I guarantee they'll regret choosing the mining council if they choose wrong (ie.don't waste time "chasing" their vote).

Just remember one thing. This looser also had a huge role to play in much of the billions that they have wasted on our behalf.

For one pertrayed as 'so clever', I wonder why she didn't see the 'rip-offs' in the education building programe until, as usual, it was all to late.

Now as for Krud, having come to a 'thud' will he do the honnorable thing and forego his huge super and perks payouts to help fund the billions needed to fix his path of distruction. After all, he still has million of dollars that he didn't put at risk!

Finally, to my good friends belly and foxy. You didn't see that one comming did you. To busy getting tied up in your labor 'brain washing' I suspect.

Wake up and smell the roses guys. Labor stinks!

Well, well, well. What a day. Ok! you humans want to make money! Ok, so do I. In politics, the power hungry wins out. Cool! we will let you have command. But if this planet fails, the people of the world will point the fingers at you. Play your game. Its your neck on the block. ( capitalist ) I hope you know what you are doing. Labour( balance)and sorry for the rant, but this is an opinion site after all, and I give my best wishes too our First Woman Prime Australian World Leader and a great victory for Australia and for equal opportunity.

You girls have worked hard!

Lets see what you can do as a world as one.

Good luck.

TTM

Custard,
"OMFG, I have never seen a "Prime Minister" sob during a speech."

Some of us saw Malcolm Fraser weeping on election night when he lost to Bob Hawke.

Some of us have this all before and many more will see it again.

I for one am delighted that Julia Gillard has taken the reigns from Rudd. Not because I necessarily think Julia will do the job better, but because I would absolutely hate to see Abbott as Prime Minister.

At least with Julia at the helm, Labour has more than a snowballs chance in hell of winning the upcoming election than it would have had with Rudd.

What amuses me is the fact that I suspect many of Abbotts conservative supporters would not be comfortable with a female Prime Minister at all, let alone an unmarried woman living with a man. I love it!

I think Gillard may just slide into office again at the coming election.

I have to say that I didn’t always agree with Rudd –to tell the truth, I rarely agreed with him.But like Foxy “I must confess that I'm totally gutted” by the way his party treated him.

And, I agree with Tony Abbott : “A midnight knock on the door, followed by midnight execution is no way that the Australian prime minister should be treated."

But having seen that same party take great delight in character assassinations of its erstwhile leader, Mark Latham, at every opportunity ---I should have expected what happened today.

Heck, why would anyone bother being a politician, in this day and age, when it means someone is always trying to catch you out, or sell you out.Especially when, you can make more money running your own business .

How’s that old song go:
“Mama don't let your babies grow up to be [politicians] …Make 'em be doctors and lawyers and such”

Sad news that Lindsay Tanner won't be contesting the next election but he obviously has his reasons. Big shoes to fill.

Quite so Horus. Kevin Rudd is no stranger to factional leadership spills. Also hope Arbib is not awarded a Cabinet position - that would be a first mistake for Julia.

I share my Friend Foxys views ,never saw it coming never believed it would.
But Kevin, forever loved, made the tools that defeated him.
Forged the lever that separated him from party, let young members of his team, not elected have more say than ministers.
And we all know the gang of four both saved us In the GFC and made stupid choices like killing the ETS and a half sold not fully though out mining tax.
Watch the difference , we will see a much more involved team, less control and anger behind the scenes.
rechtub, your charge is hollow, in fact you should understand that dept saved us from the GFC, history even being written now, shows our current dept as a Rudd achievement.
Two posters show concerns here based on understanding, respected and liked CJ Morgan, you understand yesterday ALP voters who parked in greens country are about to return.
Boat people? no way we should return to Howard's policy but we are In a minority.
Voters do not agree are we to flog any party for delivering to voters policy's they scream for?

What's the alternative?

Here it is - - - - several years with Tony Abbott as Prime Minister:

Result - - - - huge conglomerate miners continuing with their legal tax scams, abortion outlawed, reneging on paid parental leave, climate change declared a communist plot and made illegal, work choices reinstated, unions declared "anti-Australian", the Catholic Church declared the one and only "true" church, women disenfranchised (after all they have children to raise and meals to cook...... that's all they need), Boaz (AlGoreIsRich) plucked from obscurity and made Minister for Truth and All that's Politically Correct, employer superannuation contribution reduced to ZERO (let those stupid workers pay for their own super), all infrastructure dismantled (after all this will provide jobs), internet will be compulsory dialup (who needs those bloody annoying fast speeds?), the Education Revolution will be dismantled and it will be compulsory to finish primary school (then the little misfits will have to work like every good, loyal, religious, God fearing "normal" Aussie), it will be legislated that NEVER again will a mere woman become PM. Yep, political correctness according to Tony Abbott.

Wonderful!

Belly, imagine if you lost your job but had $1million in the bank which allowed you to ride out the tough times. You would fare better than most, agree.

Well this is what happened to Australia during the GFC.

We had money in the bank, whereas many other nations didn't.

Now if we had rode the wave AND managed to just spend our savings, then I would agree that we fared well, BUT, not only has Krud wasted the billions we had, but he also wasted billions more that we don't have.

Now just how do your lot propose to re-pay that huge debt AND restock the cookie jar?

I know, tax, tax and more tax.

Wasted billions?

That's why you live in obscurity rechtub and Mr Rudd achieved the highest office in the country. You can't see even basic reality through your political bias.

The surplus could have been achieved by even a trained monkey (be it Labor or Liberal) ..... it was gained off the back of the BIGGEST MINING BOOM in our history. The biggest one EVER. Do you understand? Probably not!

That surplus WOULD have been used by the opposition, despite the fact that they said that if they were in government they would not have used it. Why? Because if they didn't do that we would have HUGE UNEMPLOYMENT, A TERRIBLE RECESSION , BUSINESS AND HOUSING COLLAPSE, and MANY LONG ARDUOUS YEARS OF RECOVERY from the damage. They would have done what EVERY OTHER FIRST WORLD COUNTRY DID ...... inject stimulus in order to avoid greater damage. Politics is NOT about telling the truth. It's about manipulation. It's about political correctness. Whether it be your brand of right wing political correctness, or someone else's brand of political correctness.

Imagine how much whingeing we would have heard from rehctub if Australia's economy had gone into recession like most of the OECD. Of course, it would all have been the fault of greedy workers and Kevin Rudd.

The amazing surplus wasn't so amazing was it, the point i got from the GFC is that 30 billion is not much money at all any more when considering global finances. I hadn't noticed that any of the economic and political commentators had a problem with the money spent rather mistakes made spending it. Stimulas has worked now we must pay it off even though the world is still struggling to find its feet.
Tanner is a real loss, i dont know who will answer Wayne Swann's questions for him now.
Julia may work out well, but the concern is to much union influence. Unions and the business council are both vital parts of the way this country operates and how we maintain the balance we have, but when one or the other gains too much leverage over government it all gets out of hand. The most recent example was Work Choices. Yes change needed to happen but that was just a bit to far. In some ways the mining tax is another example, it is a fair enough argument and needs to happen but it goes to far.
Good luck to you Julia let's hope you do great things, it would be good for us all.

I just heard Tony Abbott on the radio, trying to get some mileage out of the way that Rudd was deposed. This is particularly risible, given the means by which he took the Opposition leadership from Turnbull.

Rudd had to go because he was clearly unelectable. As I've said, I don't anticipate much in the way of policy change from the ALP, although Gillard will undoubtedly try and harness the ephemeral goodwill towards her to tweak policy in order to make it more palatable to the electorate.

Does anybody think that Lindsay Tanner's decision to leave politics is unrelated to the elevation of his long-term rival to the position of PM? He's just presented the Greens with their best chance ever of winning a lower house seat in their own right. Thanks Lindsay!

CJ and others,

I never cease to be amused by our one eyed OLO bolliticians . IMO CJ, is on the money with his comment on the dysfunctional nature of personality politics.

I can understand Rudd's need to claim he was an elected PM. however it simply doesn't stack up in logic.

- I did however vote for a local representative. That was between Dumb, Dumber, "you want me to support Who?" and "You are joking, aren't you?". There was the usually statuary IQ filters, candidates that ensure the terminally senile and quadrupedal 'humans' have no part in running this country, of course.Definitely no Kevin Rudd.
- I might even say for the intellectual fringe dwellers there was an indication of Party affiliation (an the senate) but again no Kevin Rudd.
OK being the person I am I examined the policies of the candidates. Some or which could have been classified as bordering on political Hentai (cartoon porn- [some were morally/responsibly obscene]).
- That said I definitely didn't get any ballot paper with Rudd's name on it let alone indicating I was electing a PM.
Perhaps, I should consider legal action against the electoral commission in that.....

One is given to wonder at the integrity/believability of the parties concerned in that they would sink to such deliberately manipulative hyperbole as to so assert that Rudd was elected to be PM and Gillard was not.

Given the above and the further hypocrisy of The leader of the Opposition gained power one has to wonder if there are limits to his disingenuous bollitics.

But perhaps the most unsettling indication is how pliable and lacking in depth of thought the rank and file voters must be, Proving unequivocally that sensation sells better than substance. Perhaps Australians do get the politicians and politics they deserve.

The tragedy for us is the demise of Tanner as a politician. CJ, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a link. If I had a choice it would have been Gillard and Tanner, not the treasurer.

SM, I'm almost surprised by your lack of reason in this topic.

The buzz on the radio this morning:

Gillard to clamp down on asylum seekers, will this lead to a revolt within her party, and with the greens?

Mining tax, the cease fire with the mining companies will buy her some respite, but as a major proponent of the tax and the huge hole in budget that will be left if she dumps it, this will be a difficult back flip. The attack from the miners looks like returning with full force if major concessions are not quickly forth coming.

With whispers of a major blow out in the BER budget, this disaster with Julia directly responsible, looks to be the next insulation crisis. Will she nip it in the bud?

Fun times ahead.

I wonder if Julia is a magacian? Last night I'm pretty sure I heard her promis to return the budget to surplus in the same 3 years, so it's unlikely she can compcompromise much with the miners. Of course the unions wouldn't like to see miners less able to pay huge wages.

On the point of view of Ruddy being a looser, it's just as well. We have allready lost enough due to a less than perceptive electorate, who took so long to see through him.

Now to upset the women on OLO?
I found the focus on Gillard's gender, being the first *Female* PM as nauseating rubbish.
All this would indicate surprise by her gender and her(in)competence to become PM. (I'm not sure that[male or female] becoming PM is necessarily a sign of arrival.
Then again Female governmental Leaders aren't new. Now that we have one I hardly think it wise for us as a nation to trumpet our backwardness in the area of irrelevant gender differentiation with regards to competence.
All the lame street media fuss going around rabbiting on about gender role models and interviewing pubescent girls is at best premature....let's see what she does with it first. If she screws up big time (seemingly unlikely so far) and/or gets politically annihilated in 3-4 months time it will set back 'the cause'.

Even Julia herself, showed clear perspective by saying she "didn't go out to bang her head on some glass ceiling". Tat statement and it's presentation gives me some hope for sanity/focus on government and not simply spoiling and gaining government by default.

What worries me it the media and the mass women who will trivialize her by focusing on hairdos and clothing choices as though this is important. Crumbs, I can't remember the last article on Rudd or Howard's haircuts and or suits. It seems to me that many women in Australia are their own worst enemies by verifying stereo types through what sells to them in the media.

Mind you, I have been equally critical of the 'Blonk' male

I can only echo the sentiments of CJ Morgan and Examinator. I knew Lindsay from the early days when I was involved in the CPSU. He was always approachable, intelligent and a man of great integrity.

He is one of the few politicians who can provide a straight answer to any question. He is a huge loss to Labor. However, am hoping that the Green's candidate for the seat of Melbourne will be at least near his calibre, and, therefore, add some much needed diversity in Federal Politics, if the Greens win the seat.

One thing I can be certain of Melbourne will not go to the Mad Monk party.

Dear Examinator,

Those that voted for Labor candidates in the last
election voted for the Labor Party led by Kevin
Rudd, who became the Prime Minister when the Party
came into power. Previously the Party was lead by
Latham, Beazley, and the voters did not want them
to be PM, so they chose Howard. What I'm trying to
say is that voters did want Kevin Rudd as PM (getting
rid of Howard) and now many feel that they've been
let down by recent events. Let down because the
man who was their preferred leader was dumped by
the party, for whom the people voted. And, many don't
understand why the current non-elected PM could not
pursue the policies of negotiation as Deputy Leader.
Instead of ousting a leader whose policies the Party
is going to continue to pursue.

If Liberals had the nouse they would get
rid of Tony Abbott and return Malcolm Turnbull as leader.
Thus winning many swinging voters. And that may lead
to success for the Liberal Party.

The great feeling amongst people at the moment seems to be
disappointment in the Labor Party which - appears to have
gone back to faction-control. Tony Abbott & Co are not
people that inspire voters. Malcolm Turnbull, seems to be
a better choice.

Dear Severin,

I certainly hope that you're right regarding Melbourne,
and Tony Abbott. However, I live in a safe Liberal
seat - so I'm not going to hold my breath

I think the fact that Julia Gillard has become our first woman PM is something not to be dismissed lightly. The women of my extended clan got together last night and cracked a bottle of champagne along with strawberries, hot chocolates, and a large chocolate cake to celebrate the occasion. There was a lot of sympathy expressed for Kevin but the significance of the the appointment was certainly centre stage.

This is why the polls showing such negativity toward her have surprised me.

In my small sample of working mums and teenagers, even among those I know have voted Liberal in the past and probably will do again there was celebratory mood.

From a country that lead the world in female enfranchisement this has taken far too long but an election victory is needed to really validate it.

I think people are kidding if they think this will not be something Australian men and women will be considering when they go to the polls.

Dear Belly,

You'll have to forgive me.
I truly liked Kevin Rudd and thought
that he achieved an amazing amount during
the two and a half years that he was PM.
I'm still reeling from yesterday and do
feel gutted as I said.

I wish that Julia Gillard would explain
exactly what happened, and why she did what
she did. I don't question her competency,
or her negotiation skills.
However, I can't understand why she couldn't
use her negotiating skills as Deputy, if she's
still going to pursue the same programmes and
policies that Kevin Rudd instigated. Could she
not have waited and allowed him to at least
finish his term? It seems that the Party has
simply panicked. All the polls showed that
Kevin Rudd was still the preferred PM.

I feel that the Party acted prematurely.

All I wish for now is that Kevin Rudd will be
given an appropriate overseas posting - which
is the least that he deserves.

Dear Foxy,

I hear you and certainly my family has a soft spot for Kevin Rudd. I took the girls out of school and travelled to Canberra for the Apology to the Stolen Generations and we went to the Community Cabinet that came to our area. One thing that really impressed me was receiving in the mail regular Medicare cheques for dental checkups for my children. This had been an election promise and it was delivered without fanfare, it was just the business of his government. It was very painful to watch his speech.

But I am sympathetic to the view that the parties should be able to get rid of a leader because if the only way to move on a person who has lost the confidence of the people is to have us vote for the other side we are left chasing the lesser of two evils. There would have been people who would have voted Liberal against their better judgement because they felt he needed to go.

Perhaps the only way to circumvent the problem is to have primaries like in the US where people have a say in who leads the party. Without them I think we should not dwell too much on our processes.

At least the actions of Julia Gillard in calling for a timely election and not residing in the Lodge until after she has the mandate of the people, shows she has some sympathy for those like yourself.

Prediction: Within 3 months the Liberal Party will have a new leader, Joe Hockey.

Prediction: Mr Hockey will then lead the Liberal party in defeat, at the hands of Julia Gillard and the Labor Party, at the upcoming election.

Prediction: Within 3 to 5 years Australian finances will be at or very near surplus.

Prediction: Boom times are coming, get in now! In 5 years time the entire world will be in the middle of the biggest expansion and boom era ever experienced.

Prediction: The current doomsday merchants who see only bad times ahead will be the * *FIRST* * people to get aboard the gravy train. Why? Because they don't "really" believe what they write. Mostly, their writings are politically motivated. One thing's for sure - - - you can't trust a commentator, an economist (one who has a hand in the pot), a politician, a radio shock jock etc etc to tell the truth. Their very tools of trade are based on one thing.... "manipulation".

Foxy, as I've said before, you are too nice. You liked Rudd, your choice, but many think he is a conman.

Why would the libs want to go for Turnbull, he is a clone of Rudd. As we have just seen Rudd, for what ever reason, is a failure.

I am starting to like Abbott, but I'm not sure of him yet. I have no idea about Julie, but will give it a while, before I try to make up my mind.

I know it's a bit small minded, but I can't help marking her choice of hair colour against her. I think it's a silly choice, I often see on my youngest daugther's less cleaver friends. It is not what I expect on a mature woman. Ok, I know I'm old fashioned.

Benq,

But haven't you heard the end of the world happens on the 21st December 2012.

This has been prophesised by the Mayans, the Aztecs, the Hopis, the Egyptians, The Bible and now Opinionated2....lol

Hopi (passed from generation to generation) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9Vhivi6nws

Mayan, Inca, Aztec, Egyptian Prophecy 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhWTbVz-1Og

Plus the Hopi's even predicted the BP oil disaster

http://earthevolution.blogspot.com/2007/11/nine-signs-of-hopi-prophecy.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bSWzi7eAh0

* But none of the ancient civilisations predicted GILLARD would be PM *...lol

I too feel a little sorry for Kevin Rudd, as I think he has been blamed for trying to overcome the Howard's Governments failures to keep infrastructure funding flowing.

Great surpluses lousy infrastructure!

Elections are like Christmas...Generally you get a turkey...lol

Likewise the Rudd Governments failure to go after, and failure to insist that the States go after, all the people who have allegedly fraudulently misappropriated moneys through the stimulation packages is lamentable.

If what has been alleged by every right winger in the country, this has been so terrible, the Governments should have launched themselves into prosecuting the offending parties.

If I were Gillard that would be my very first step.

Many people benefited from the Insulation Scheme and yet it was still considered a bad scheme due to the flaws that were exposed.

PROSECUTE Julia... We want our money back!

Benq

Mystic (wonderful predictions) and cynic (truth about gravy train jumpers).

Love your work.

I wish that Julia could've taken the reins from Kevin after the next election. But that was not to be. I can only imagine the gnashing of teeth and much wailing from the Liberal party now. They thought they had a chance.

Heh heh heh heh. Would love to have seen Abbott's face when he heard the news.

While I am sorry for Kevin (just the fact he thought he should work even harder revealed his lack of connection to his party) I am very happy that Australia's first female PM is Julia Gillard.

Not someone like Julie Bishop - brrrhhhhh!

I suppose only time will tell.

It will be interesting to see what happens
next, and who's going to go. Will Abbott
be replaced? Because surely the Liberal
Party should be able to see that they can't
win with him as their leader. Although I'm not
too sure about Joe Hockey. Joe seems too nice
for the political arena. Malcolm Turnbull seems
a more capable leader. I don't agree that he's
a Rudd clone at all. Turnbull seems capable of
compromise - and he's a realist.

As I posted previously - politics has suddenly
become more interesting.

Fingers crossed though, that Kevin Rudd will be given
an appropriate posting overseas. It would be a shame
not to use his talent and experience on the international
scene. Personally, I would have preferred to have seen Kevin
Rudd still represent Australia at the G20 in Toronto, instead of
Wayne Swann - who to me appears a bit toady. But perhaps
that's the way to survive in politics these days. Although it
certainly doesn't do much for Julie Bishop. She's certainly
found it difficult to get ahead any further. Perhaps
the mass of male Parliamentarians in her Party find it
difficult to equate women with position of power.

*Those that voted for Labor candidates in the last
election voted for the Labor Party led by Kevin
Rudd*

Actually Foxy, they voted for their local candidate. Enough
of their local candidites had clearly decided it was time
for Kevie to go. So in that sense, it was indeed democratic.

I think there has been enough leakage of information, that
we know what was going on behind the scenes. Kevie was becoming
increasingly insular, controlling, and out of touch, thinking
that personally he could solve it all, by sleeping even less.
It wasn't going to work and too many in the ALP could see that.

He'd also painted himself into a corner over the mining tax
and enough parlimentarians in marginal seats in WA and QLD
could see the writing on the wall, what would happen to them
at the next elections. So they acted to preserve their own arses.

Julia Gillard and Julie Bishop are quite different. Gillard has
got balls and can play with the boys, Julie would be more likely
to burst into tears. So I think Julia is a pretty good choice.
Politics is not a game for the emotionally engulfed.

But Gillard could not negotiate, whilst Kevie was calling the
shots, even as deputy PM. The mining tax was agreed by Swan
and Rudd, not Gillard or even Ferguson. That was Rudd's problem,
as time went he became increasingly insular.

Yup, Swan is a slippery character, I don't trust him either.

Yes, you would be worried about poor Kevie, but don't worry,
Theresa has big bosoms so there is plenty of space for him
to console himself and shed a few tears. Its a rough game, but
he knew that.

Foxy, Kevin Rudd is staying on in parliament. He'll be contesting the upcoming election, and will likely serve on the front bench.

He's still a young man and I think he will be leader again someday. Without doubt, he's the brightest intellect in parliament. But he's an autocratic, my way or the highway type, and this has played against him.

Labor would have still won the election with him as Prime Minister, but with a new and popular leader like Julia Gillard their winning margin will be greater. Mr Rudd was dumped for political reasons, NOT policy reasons.

Labor was EXTREMELY clever with the way they changed leaders. There was no lengthy public bloodletting, no weeks and weeks and months and months of press speculation, no chance for the Liberals to gain political momentum in parliament due to Labor leadership squabbles. Yep, Labor did it as PERFECTLY as it was possible to do.

Poor Tony Abbott's jaw must have dropped when he suddenly heard the bad news for him. He was demolished in tonight's interview on the 7.30 report when he "tried" to adopt the high moral ground with nazi style "assassination" "midnight coup" language......... it was pointed out to him that the Liberals assassinate dheir leaders with the same lack of mercy...... poor Tony was made to look foolish and a hypocrite. He had no "real" answers.

Never trust a politician to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Regardless of their political affiliation.

Posted by pelican, Thursday, 24 June 2010 11:35:11 PM
" ... Sad news that Lindsay Tanner won't be contesting the next election but he obviously has his reasons. Big shoes to fill. ... "

I think not! A *GREEN* candidate will be by far the superior choice i.m.o.

..

Posted by benq, Friday, 25 June 2010 5:53:21 AM
" ... Boaz(y) (AlGoreIsRich) plucked from obscurity and made Minister for Truth and All that's Politically Correct ... "

I found that a highly amusing piece BenQ. My thanks for a good chuckle, though I actually suspect dear *BoazY* is more than a little representative in some Australian circles.

..

Posted by CJ Morgan, Friday, 25 June 2010 8:26:34 AM
" ... He's just presented the Greens with their best chance ever of winning a lower house seat in their own right. Thanks Lindsay! ... "

YAY TEAM!

..

Posted by examinator, Friday, 25 June 2010 10:04:22 AM
" ... But perhaps the most unsettling indication is how pliable and lacking in depth of thought the rank and file voters must be, Proving unequivocally that sensation sells better than substance. Perhaps Australians do get the politicians and politics they deserve. ... "

Yes well, perhaps if they stopped indoctrinating kiddies with religious claptrap, taught the value of money, something of the legal system and the guvment departments along with what qualifications lead to what jobs producing what potential lifestyles at high school then maybe we could begin to turn around this problem.

..

Posted by Shadow Minister, Friday, 25 June 2010 10:13:29 AM
" ... Fun times ahead. ... "

I certainly hope so.

..

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=3619&page=8

Posted by DreamOn, Saturday, 8 May 2010 7:45:12 PM
" ... That's a drum to beat and even though the thought of Abbott at the helm disgusts me, Mr Wudd has to go if the allegations bear out.
Off with his head I say, and a "prayer" that *GreenBrowny et al* end up with the balance of power. .. AmenHotep. ... "

Foxy and others, first do not build a mountain out of Lindsy leaving, he truly was going months ago and for the reasons he gave.
I would have been glad to see him replace Rudd.
Now and in the future Julia will be much loved, deliver great election results to Labor.
And in time her fall will be from much the same tree that felled Kevin Rudd, I will always respect Kev.
And while Australia will fall at the feet of Julia, even I will thank her often.
I will not be at her feet.
She will do great things but shares Rudd's ego.
Kevin tried to be only his own man.
He avoided sharing his power with Cabernet.
He did not take advice.
He backed down on ETS hid involvement in roof insulation, went against his stated path in boat people.
Took more notice of his unelected staff than his team.
Recently party members told him he must be inclusive.
He said he was running the government.
His back downs destroyed his image and the party.
Yet clearly he needed to stop and re think the mining tax but only to protect his image would not budge.
Kevin Rudd great man let his ego tell him only he knew.
If he had his time over? well sadly he never will he self destructed , his view the party could not rule without him is about to be proved wrong Julia may exceed his high poll ratings in the short term, but one day will fall.
In the same fashion as Rudd and for the same reasons watch Bill Shorten he no longer has Rudd's boot on his head and will climb to the very top, read his speeches and fear not he will one day lead us very well.

Foxy: "Fingers crossed though, that Kevin Rudd will be given
an appropriate posting overseas. It would be a shame
not to use his talent and experience on the international
scene. Personally, I would have preferred to have seen Kevin
Rudd still represent Australia at the G20 in Toronto, instead of
Wayne Swann - who to me appears a bit toady."

Agree and agree.

I haven't voted for either party for a long time.

I would have been/am thrilled of course to finally see a female PM, and Julia G would have been the best of the available bunch I think - but this whole biz has that brutus kinda feel about it. I am disappointed in how it's come about.

I hoped that we would see a woman elected in her own right.

As it is, despite reports to the contrary, it has a feeling of 'votable mascot' about it.

I felt indifferent about Kevin R., but I don't like to see a PM of the country treated this way. I appreciate that the swiftness of the move deprived the opposition of an opportunity to win points from a party that seemed divided and weak, but surely to good grief they could have conferred with Kevin so that he could hand the job to Julia G and retain his dignity in the process.

It all just doesn't really seem democratic - I suspect that big biz and whatever other factions have engineered matters.

One thing though; Julia G would be wise to keep the suspect Wayne S as deputy. Maybe Kevin R's only real boo-boo was to appoint a smart and capable deputy who could capture everyone's admiration. No way that Wayne S would represent such a threat to anyone in power. Plus by keeping him close maybe she can keep an eye on him.

As someone warned; Julia G. probably needs to watch her back more carefully than any politician ordinarily would do

*I suspect that big biz and whatever other factions have engineered matters.*

One thing about some of you OLO posters, you at least bring out a
chuckle, with your paranoia about big biz. Pynchme, next time
your period is late, just blame big biz lol, for clearly you girls
blame it for just about every else!

Benq

Your latest post summarised my opinion perfectly.

Foxy

Julie Bishop has not risen further NOT because she is a woman but because she is both sycophantic and just not all that smart (haven't you noticed how she always speaks in rhetorical sound bites?).

Yabby

Take a bex and lie down. You'll feel better in about 5 days.

On Monday 21st June, Rudd and Abbott went head to head, at the Australian Christian Lobby pre-election podcast from Old Parliament House, and it was taken by Churches from all over Australia. Kevin was glib, Abbott was a bit staccato, but Abbott stated that the separation of the powers of Church and State was important.

Both recognised that the greatest grass roots political movement in the world is the Christian Church. It reaches out from Australia and has a beneficial influence wherever it takes root. It could have a much greater beneficial influence in Australia if our Churchmen actually understood just how deeply rooted Christian tradition is embedded in our institutions. Kevin Rudd unfortunately had failed to understand that the Parliament of the Commonwealth is totally impotent, while it has a bevy of lawyers, intent on preserving the power of the States and unwilling to assert the superior power for good of the Commonwealth.

As a Christian, I argue with an agnostic friend, that the State has become a de-facto Church. He argues that it is simply big business, with all the evils that affect big business, and since the Australia Act 1986, all the States are big business too. As Churches they have integrated their power from Magistrates to Supreme Court and vested it in single individuals, totally dependant upon each State Government. As Big Business all nine of them are infected with enormous corruption, and the propensity of Big Business to bribe and seek special favors, has no limits whatsoever.

I respect Julia Gillard’s scepticism, about the value of Almighty God, and her decision to affirm her commitment rather than take an Oath. Its probably better to affirm and mean it, than take an Oath and not. What I hope she will do is assert the supremacy of the Judicial power of the Commonwealth and establish a Federal Judicial Commission, to take over and separate from the States, the forces to execute and maintain the laws of the Commonwealth. This Commission should be fully funded to pay every Judge and Magistrate in Australia so they cannot be corrupt

Dear Yabby,

Your comment to Pynch with the "Period"
reference is most inappropriate and too
personal. No female has made any personal
references to your masculine quirks/or
lack of them

Yabby, people blaming "big biz" are about as paranoid as people ranting that the miners would leave over the unions.

As to Ms Gillard PM, yes, She is admittedly a tool of the Unions, in precisely the same way that Abbot is the tool of the BCA & Mining Council of Australia. And?

We have actually, finally, returned to the system of government that this Country was built under. Business groups supporting one party & the unions & workers the other.

That the "boat people" are not to be an election issue has already been spelled out, "border protection" will be the same regardless of which major party is in power, which is as it should be. The vast majority of Australian voters have no time for illegal immigrants and to suggest otherwise is demonstrably wrong (Not PC perhaps, but a fact nonetheless).

Let's fix this Country and stop running on scaremongering about irrelevant crud. Personally, I hope that Labor wins the election, as I think they now stand a REAL chance of doing. As for Kev being knifed in the back, was he done down any more than Turnbull, Costello or the other twit (such a nonentity I can honestly not recall his name)?

Julia Gillard has been elected to her seat, and to the leadership of the Labor Party, and has been properly sworn in by the Governor-General. That makes Her our PM, regardless of whether or not she got there via an election, She is Constitutionally Speaking, our Rightful Prime Minister. Kevin Rudd was elected to his seat and by Caucus to leadership of the Labor Party, He has now been dumped by Caucus, so he is no longer PM.

Rudd went because he lost credibility, he was losing ground to a man who stated OPENLY that he tells lies ffs. He looked and sounded like a fool within his first term, he made the cardinal mistake of trying to "out-bloke" an actual "bloke", and came across as a try-hard (a deadly sin in this Country).

*Yabby, people blaming "big biz" are about as paranoid as people ranting that the miners would leave over the unions.*

Err Custard, I can't recall anyone here ranting that the miners
would leave over the unions. But people like me have indeed
pointed out that some union thugs are in fact experts at
thuggery, which has little to do with the "poor workers", as
so many seem to think.

If you really think that is to the benefit of Australians and
the Australian economy, well that is up to you. I would hardly
agree. In fact the big losers have been taxpayers, for when
thuggery breaks out at WA building sites, a great many are
Govt projects and costs are simply passed on to those taxpayers.

benq>>The surplus could have been achieved by even a trained monkey (be it Labor or Liberal)

Ah yes, but first they had to claw back the huge debt left by labor. Now that took more than a trained monkey.

So, what did labor do to assit in the recovery. They made employing people harder.

They said, and I quote "no worker will be worse off", but hey, take a stroll to your local eatery any Sunday and you will be lucky to see any staff, other than owners, over the age of 16.

So are those who lost their sunday gigs not worse off?

BTW, they were quite happy with thier sunday gigs!

Now I don't object to the stimulus, it's just the way they allowed it to be wasted.

The best way to stimulate an ecconomy is to make it easier for workers to gain employment as they then pay taxes and spend money.

Now speaking of 'tained monkeys' even they know that.

As I have said previously, there was a link between the 'boom times' as you put it and 'the removal of the hoops' when it came to employing.

Yabby, this is the sort of thing that makes me barf:

http://www.smh.com.au/small-business/unions-welcome-new-pm-20100625-z754.html

Btw: Unions nowadays are useless and I consider them "big biz" too.

(Thanks Foxy and Severin. I just took it as one of those silly sexist comments that old fellas make when they haven't got a sensible argument.)

Gawd, there was silly me thinking that the age of biology had well
and truly arrived and that the age of "secret womens business"
was well and truly passed, but not so for some, it seems.

We'll have to have those Tampax ads banned now, otherwise little
Johnie will be asking questions about what they really do with those
things :)

Yabby, you will like me less after this post.
Want to come to the Bar B Q I offered rechtub in another thread?
Always liked your position in most posts.
But have seen a change, no matter what you think of me I will continue to like and respect most of your posts.
That wise man of the east thing, it seems to drive you after the mining tax thing.
It is very real, even at national conference of my union time and again it comes up.
Anyone born east of Kalgoorlie is a walking lie, con man and thief.
More child like than the QLD V NSW thing.
I grin often smile or laugh on reading your posts,I do not see a WA person I see an Aussie bush man not much different than me.
We should not let our different locations lessen our Australian unity.
Your tampon post bloke was uncalled for, you know that look at it again ,find a better way to insult.
That Bar B Q can we wait till after Julia flogs your mob? I will have the upper hand in the debate only 4 of you against reality.
Wise man from the east Belly or is it smart a?

Gawd, Yabby - what is it with you and women?

"I think not! A *GREEN* candidate will be by far the superior choice i.m.o."

True that is the only plus Dream On. :)

Let's face it thought the Greens are not going to win in the Lower House and Tanner was one of the good ones.

He not only knew his stuff but knew how to make complicated issues best understood by the electorate, and I believe he was a decent person. Very happy for the Greens to get the seat though I just ask why couldn't it have been Arbib's seat. (Or someone of that ilk who is not a good performer but holds rank only as a powerful factional leader.)

The unions had nought to do with Rudd's demise, it was his alienation of his backbench and autocratic leadership style that led to his downfall. Once critical mass was reached that was the end.

Halo *Peli*

..

re *Julia* <snip> for now.

I have had a number of rather "potent and powerful" women in my sphere since my earliest days and now, my sense of the current situation is that it is appropriate for the likes of me to sit down, as it tis a time for others already prepared ..

.. and the Hope is, amongst other things, that there is the potential for the development of *CEREMONY* and indeed some special women's business.

For if Julia wishes to build consensus prior to moving on certain key issues, then let her conduct herself as WOMEN usually do best, with openness, inclusiveness, tolerance and compassion.

Instead of spouting off great belches of impoverished content, rather reach out by inquiring of the great multitude of enthusiastic to participate individuals in Australia as to their views, giving voice to the "Best of the Distilled Essence."

..

And for the coalition, in the hope that the future election will at least be a contest, my view is that Mr Abott specifically must no longer be the primary attack dog, and ought refrain from "playing the man" with Julia, as I suspect that part of the stamp that she will put on office will be a more sophisticated and refined manner of conducting the affairs of state.

*sHADOw mINISTEr aBBOTt* should be placed back in the fires in secret and remade, with his attack dog nature bequeathed unto other colleagues and a new focus instilled being the delivery of a sleeker, smarter policy platform, to be delivered in both an eloquent and articulate manner.

[Yes indeed "The Way, The Way" as I listen to the ethereal Chinese whispers on the wind, in the echoes of my own mind.]

For if not, an extra layer of paint will be added unto his visage, making him appear overly hostile and aggressive, as has already occurred, and the wombles will flock unto Julia in droves, and he will be left with the minority rednecks who are of not of adequate numbers to get the coalition across the line.

Dream on I understand my view as given here will be remembered.
But it is honestly held so here gos,Julia is a lot like Kevin Rudd, but smarter.
She partnered a fool, the worst leader my party ever had ever will have.
Mark Latham, a fraud a painting of a politician on toilet paper.
She will do well, be just as self centered maybe even more than Rudd.
But she will include in a God like way, her cabinet.
She too may hold back talent like Bill Shorten, weak leaders do,and in my view she one day will fall to the same sword that Rudd did for the same reasons,in time she will forget she is leader not owner of my party.
I will not be at her feet, but not an enemy, wary of anyone who found Crean and Latham of any use other than broom in hand in Parliament I stay and watch.
But I thank her for changing policy's and her victory in the election to come,this unionist till death reminds the PM 2 million members want a fair go at work.

Ummm Belly, Kevin Rudd's intelligence outweighs the collective intelligence of everyone reading this topic. That's why he reached the highest office in this country, and we live in virtual total obscurity...... he's no "fool". He possesses the highest intellect of anyone in parliament. Labor changed leaders for "political" reasons. They believe they will have a better chance at winning the election if Gillard is in charge. And they're right. It's as simple as that!

Kevin Rudd did 2 amazing things for Australia. He saved our country from a terrible, lengthy depression via his strong insistence for economic stimulus and infrastructure repair. This will be his major legacy. To put it in the language of the people "he saved our sorry ungrateful a r s e s". The other thing is of course the LOOOOOOONG overdue apology to the Aboriginal people of this land. History will show that the apology marks the beginning of Aboriginal recovery ....... there's still several hundred years to go for that recovery to be complete; our near decimation of entire cultures was THAT poignant and effective. Thank God we didn't succeed. John Howard, hang your head in dismal shame.

The general public doesn't like tall poppies, either financial tall poppies or intellectual tall poppies. Rudd was very much an intellectual tall poppy, whereas Gillard is much more "of the people". She will do well as PM and at the next election. Then eventually it will be her turn for the knife. That's "politics".

*Gawd, Yabby - what is it with you and women?*

Absolutaly nothing CJ, but in this case I'd have to
ask, what is it with you and *secret womens business*?
Did you too grow up with those kinds of hangups and taboos?

With Belly I can understand it, Australia too
suffered from the old British puritanical way
of life and many here grew up that way. Queen Victoria
was English after all.

I grew up with a Central European background and once
you cross that English Channel into France, many things
change. There never was "secret womens or mens business",
things were natural, we discussed them all as part of everyday
living and I still treat them that way.

Given your question, even your education has seemingly not helped.

Ah well, thats life I guess.

benq once again we clash, your terminology infers you know better than me.
Maybe you do, but as an activist from within the ALP/Union movement I remind you.
IQ is no measure of common sense, and just as Kevin bought us great victory, he bought about his own down fall.
He rarely heard the voice of his ministers, pushed into dangerous policy areas because he thought the love showed to him was forever no matter what.
His gains are forever history, we the ALP can now look forward to contained reform in our second term.
I think some one else will lead us to the third term election, it is on Julia's shoulders that result.
The fact is I will always think the best of Kev, if he could have his time over?
You can bet he would be more inclusive more reachable and this event would be avoided.
Do watch however to see if my prediction Julia will fall on the same sword comes true, Labor has real talent, share the load please.
In comparison name Abbott's replacement? and a deputy, like fishing on a sand hill I can think of none.

Yabby, my comment was prompted by this rather odd statement from you:

<< We'll have to have those Tampax ads banned now, otherwise little
Johnie will be asking questions about what they really do with those
things :) >>

What on earth was that about? It seems to be a complete non sequitur. You went from your usual union bashing to what appears to be an irrelevant jibe about tampons.

I'm sure it's relevant in your head, but even with all my education I'm having difficulty in connecting intellectually Tampax ads and Kevin Rudd's demise as PM.

Please elucidate - I'm sure it'll be entertaining :)

Dear CJ,

Perhaps Yabby can't get over the fact that
we now have a PM who happens to be female?

But this may help clarify things...
It's a list of top ten things that Yabby
understands about women:

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

10.

CJ, you clearly had not been following the thread comments.

Foxy got her titties in a tangle, so it was related to
that.

*Dear Yabby,
Your comment to Pynch with the "Period"
reference is most inappropriate and too
personal.*

But if you never followed the discussion, granted, it
would make little sense.

Dear oh dear Yabby. I went back and looked, and you posted this on Friday:

<< Pynchme, next time your period is late, just blame big biz lol, for clearly you girls blame it for just about every else! >>

That would be the original non sequitur that provoked Foxy's understandable reponse and my confusion, wouldn't it? What on earth do late periods have to do with either "big biz" or Kevin Rudd?

It was obviously just another gratuitously misogynist slur from you of the kind to which we're well accustomed. Let me assure you that such tactics don't advance your arguments one iota.

Indeed, they just make you look like a sad and embittered old man.

*Indeed, they just make you look like a sad and embittered old man.*

Hehe CJ, what wondeful conclusions you must jump to, when I mention
penises, testicles or labias of all things!

Perhaps you'd better stick to your shopkeeping for a living,
for psychology is clearly not your strong point :)

Yabby: <"Hehe CJ, what wondeful conclusions you must jump to, when I mention penises, testicles or labias of all things!">

Yabby you're boasting about being uninhibited, which shows that you're either missing the point or obtusely ignoring it.

If you want to talk about menstrual cycles and prostate peculiarities or something we can do that (on another thread).

The point being made here isn't that people here are coyly blushing because you mentioned menstruation; it's that reference to female menstrual cycles has been an old standby to claim that opinions from females are invalid because their cycles make them emotional, illogical and erratic.

An equivalent in your parlance would be to say that you're a silly old goat who thinks with his little head instead of his big one. However, I think participants here expect a little more thoughtful argument rather than crude (attempted) insults.

Some women are erratic (as are some men); some men are d/heads (but not many are truly driven only by sex. Let's leave negative stereotypes out of it.

I don't think you're stupid man; therefore I believe you're capable of more thoughtful argument

Yabby, I'm not the slightest bit worried about your apparent fixation with genitalia - whatever that has to do with either Kevin Rudd or menstruation.

I just wonder what any of it has to do with the ostensible topic of the discussion, i.e. the demise of Rudd as PM.

While I'm familiar with the tendency of farmers to anthropomorphise life in the barnyard, your extension of it to a discussion of national politics is stretching the metaphor just a tad too far, in my opinion.

I'm very happy with my stress-free semi-retirement thanks. I don't seem to experience anything like the angst that you continually express :)

But who'd want to be a farmer these days anyway?

Indeed *Belly* I find it highly believable that the ALP has some depth to its talent pool.

Judging from *BenQ's* comments though it appears that the wounds of some are still raw & sensitive.

..

However, if it were me, and unless there were compelling reasons otherwise (and admittedly when one has such a limited perspective I can easily contemplate that there might be)I would trash Mr Wudd utterly and consign him to the wilderness, as well as Garrett, and give *Maxine* a run on the front bench. (assuming she is still around and willing)

..

I note that I've seen the name of *Bill Shorten* pop up on more than one occasion in recent times, but I must admit, I know virtually nothing about him, except I seem to recall he was close to the death of some person of significance a whiles back if I recall the ABC news website's report correctly.

..

And *Julia* I see from tonight's news seeks to establish a consensus on a sustainable Australia visa vi resource and population. That potentially sounds like a good idea to me.

But the ABC alleged also that she has been accused of "Dog Whistle" politics visa vi same. I don't think I understand what that term means in that particular context.

..

And also tonight I watched *dARk sCIENCe* on Australia Network, which warmed the cockles of my Heart and note the words of one of the featured Original Ozzies:

" ... No more animosity once a bad thing has been put right. ... "

Dream on do me this one favor goggle Bill shorten then Paul Howe's.
Read the speech's of both, right now slander is bout wrongly claiming these two bought about Rudd's down fall.
It is not uninformed just a lie.
Shorten saved Australia's oldest union after a rough amalgamation.
Howe's too does so every day.
My fear? that Howe's will enter Parliament before his task is complete.
Tanner, loved the bloke, Faulkner, now he is from the left, and worth bottling his blood.
Once the right faction [who always win voting out comes in NSW ] called for him not to be returned, they then voted him back!
We have talent, Maxine? not sure she lives in a box post victory, Garrett that must happen better send Kev to China.
But put an end to safe seats for morons lets put talent in the house.
Rudd however is not the biggest looser Abbott and his mob lost the most the ALP scored another win.

*I just wonder what any of it has to do with the ostensible topic of the discussion, i.e. the demise of Rudd as PM.*

Well of course you don't CJ, for clearly you had not been following
the thread and what I written in response to Pynchme, last Friday.

Then you clearly had not either followed all the other threads
that I have been involved in for the last week or two, where
I tried to get people for one minute to think a little rationally
and objectively, about the role of coporations in our society,
why they exist and what their limits are. Yes they are flawed, but
we also need them for good reasons.

Apart from Mikk, who seemingly hates everything and wants anarchy,
nearly all the posters happened to be female, from thinker 2, Unique
and a whole lot more. What poured out was a heap of emotive rhetoric
about those "evil corporations", with seemingly no or little
understanding of the directors legal obligations and why they
can't just do as they please with shareholders money. All we
got was lots of hatred and little understanding. Pynchme was
just the last straw. Thus my post.

Dear Yabby,

Simply because people (some of whom happen
to be female) disagree with your point of view
on any given topic does not necessarily mean
that their opinion is less worthy of consideration
then your own.

The thread on corporate capitalism to which you refer
had more than one dissenting opinion that ran contrary
to yours. You claim that females didn't understand
how coporations work. On the contrary - from the posts
given, they understood only too well. However, in your
opinion, that can't be the case - because the posters
were female.

Yabby, you're going to have to learn to live with the fact
that females do have a brain, which they are capable
of using. And if corporations are perceived by them as:
"an ingenious device for obtaining profit without
individual responsibility." That does not reflect hatred
of any sort, merely an opinion.

It looks like Rudd is such electoral poison that he might not even get a seat at the kitchen cabinet.

Abbott's policy of focusing exclusively on Rudd might backfire in that JG by shafting Rudd, can distance herself from many of the policies and disasters that she had a large part of.

The coalition's task is to ensure that she takes full accountability for her past actions, and does not get away with simply using KR as a scape goat for all past mistakes including her own.

Dear Shadow Minister,

I realize what you're saying about the role
of the opposition, except that they are not
squeaky clean themselves - especially having
gotten rid of at least two previous Party
leaders. Tony Abbott has a lot to answer for himself.
And he's the last person that needs to be finger-
pointing.

The sooner that the Liberal Party realises that they
can't win with Abbott and Co. the better for them.
They need to actually address the issues with genuine
policies, not just condemnation of Labor and the
"big tax and boat people scares," (ad nauseum),
and get rid or the neanderthals that
exist on the front bench currently -
(Howard clones), and get themselves a new leader.

Other wise they may as well not bother running
in the next election. It will prove embarrassing.

*On the contrary - from the posts
given, they understood only too well. However, in your
opinion, that can't be the case - because the posters
were female.*

Foxy, when I read responses such as "we'd be better off
without corporations" it becomes rather clear, how much
emotion and how little reason posters are applying.

There have in fact been a number of threads. How many
of you posters objectively thought about the role of
corporations in our society? Would we really be better
off without corporations? Who would make your consumer
goods, who would provide the finance to build the
factories, to supply your computers, cars, toilet paper
and all the rest? It seems that none of you have even
thought about why corporations even exist. If they are
so evil as claimed, what is your suggestion of a better
alternative? So far nothing.

There are in fact females who think things through a little,
but they are few and far between. So my response was
to the many females who had clearly given it no thought
at all. They just happened to be female, I did not
choose it to be that way.

No SM........ the opposition's task is to get rid of Tony Abbott and replace him with someone more useful ............. like Wilson Tuckey or Bronwyn Bishop.

Benq and Foxy,

The two forms of government that can exist are:
- inclusive where the party in power consults the opposition and at least tries to accommodate their concerns most of the time,
- Exclusive, where the party in power completely ignores the opposition.

The latter is certainly true here. The result has been the blocking of legislation in the senate.

In the case of exclusive government, the only purpose left to the opposition is to get into power and get the government out of power. Turnbull trying to offer an alternative policy that differed partially from the labor platform did not give the voters incentive to change.

Abbott deliberately differentiated the opposition and hammered home a powerful negative campaign against Rudd and Labor. (In politics, if you cannot win, simply make your opponent lose.)

If JG is looking like being in a winning position, Abbott while not necessarily the man to govern, is certainly the main to shred her credibility.

1-0 to the coalition, and in JR's words: Game on.

Surprising as it may be, Yabby, but I haven't been following your ongoing war against the women of OLO all over the forum. I simply commented about the inappropriateness of a particularly misogynist post you made on this entirely unrelated thread.

<< There are in fact females who think things through a little,
but they are few and far between. >>

You don't exactly redeem yourself with that nonsense.

Shadow Minister: << In the case of exclusive government, the only purpose left to the opposition is to get into power and get the government out of power. >>

To my mind, that's one of the biggest problems with our current version of democracy. It'd be great if Tweedledum and Tweedledumber were as interested in governing the country for the good of Australians as they are in simply holding on to power.

If Julia's election is a win Shadow Minister I want be about after your mob has a loss.
say election night
see you here.

<< There are in fact females who think things through a little,
but they are few and far between. >>

CJ: You don't exactly redeem yourself with that nonsense.

* * *

Har har! Yabby concedes that there is an occasional female somewhere who might aspire to match his superior intellect.

This is so funny!

CJ thanks for catching that gobstopper :)

Dear Yabby,

What you did choose to do was to make
inappropriate gender-based comments
rather than tackling the issues under
discussion. That is the objection that
is being raised here, and evaded by
you. Your comment made to Pynch
was totally out of line, as you well
know. Back peddling won't work.
As for the corporate thread - read the
title of that thread again - and it may just
dawn on you what the issues actually were.

*but I haven't been following your ongoing war against the women of OLO all over the forum*

Sheesh, now discussions about corporations must be a "war against
women". CJ, quit the verbal masturbation please!

Foxy, what I think is appropriate or not appropriate, is up to me
really. If you don't like it, well tough titties :)

Posted by Yabby, Monday, 28 June 2010 7:56:48 PM
" ... Foxy, what I think is appropriate or not appropriate, is up to me really. If you don't like it, well tough titties :) ... "

*Yappy* if U go round talking sh!t like that 2 yr woman brother all you'll be gettin is the old choppper sow out the back mate.

HaHaHa

And after the piglets have been at those titties all day long they probably will be pretty tough at that.

HaHaHa

..

Common as muck really, as it appears that *Yappy* (usually pretty even keeled) resorts to personal derision based on gender denigration when he fails to solicit responses from his audience commensurate with his personal sense of the worth of his own ego.

Knowing this, but afraid of the demise of his own ego in the clear light of day before his OLO peers and colleagues, he elects rather to argue the point and make a complete tit of himself.

<snicker, snicker>

My recommendation would be to:

"Bow, yr f'ing Head & apologise for yr crude and crass indiscretion, followed by a rest for no less than 3 days from OLO, and a tour of duty mucking out the sty."

benq,
This appology thing continues to raise its head.

Off topic I think, but, you would be hard pressed to find any genuine Aussie that dosn't feel sorry for what happened to the so called 'stolen generation', but, offering an appology and feeling sorry are two entirely different things.

John howard, on behalf of us all said he was sorry for what happened, and I support that.

But not one person alive today had anything to do with what happened.

I am sorry that My grand dad was shot at gallipoly, but I don't expect the present day government to appologise for sending him to war.

Krudd used this as a political stunt.

I note that governments are now considering removing children from communities for their own benefit, to protect them from phisical and sexual abuse. Some as young as 8 or 9. Is that 'steeling them', I ask?

Krud also stole thousands of hectares of land from our farmers so he could sign up for kyoto. They still pay rates on that land by the way. They just can't use it any more.

The best move Krud did was to perform a 'Kim Hughs'. It is also what he will be best remembered for.

He was nothing but a political show pony that fell on his own sword.

It's just a pitty he had his grubby little hands on our cheque book in an 'unaccountable fashion'.

Even madam PM has no job for him, althoughI suspect she wanted to offer him the job of 'tea and coffee making', but his re-introduced 'unfair dismisal laws' prevented her from replacing the current person.

What a joke he was!

And that post shows why rehctub lives in obscurity, while Kevin Rudd achieved the highest office in the land.

'nuff said

Dear Yabby,

You said, "tough titties!"

That's your world in a nutshell.

Yes benq, won the prize of all prizes and became Pm for what must be close to the shortest period ever. Yet another trophy for his case of failed trophies.

I wonder which one he admires the most, or, it is more likely he casts them aside and takes no reponsibillity for them.

Funny thing is, Madam Pm is just as popular as he was when he came to office.

I just hope she lives up to her promises because one thing we would all agree on is that outr country simply can not afford to take another stint of wasted billions.

Those falsely claimed "wasted billions" (you've really fallen for the far right wing rhetoric haven't you) saved your sorry a r s e rehctub, and everyone else in Australia. Without the stimulus (which **EVERY** first world country has adopted) and infrastructure repair Australia would be experiencing a horrid recession. Without stimulus worldwide the world would now be in the middle of a serious depression. The Liberals "policy" (so called) was to sit back, watch and DO NOTHING ...... had those amateurs been in charge. Imagine it, a country run by Abbott, Tuckey, Bishop, Hockey....... we'd be the laughing stock of the world.

Like I said, your posts show why you live in obscurity rehctub, while Kevin Rudd achieved the highest office in our country.

Benq
At no time have I said the stimulus was a bad thing.

I clearly stated that it was the way it was implimented that was wrong.

Now you can remain in denial as long as you wish, but the reality is that there have been billions wasted on failed projects, most related to the stimulus.

Insulation is of cause the worst case, then there was the wasted stimulus dollars spent on gambling, grog and cigs, all of which returned a heafty sum to the government through taxes.

As I have said from the outset, why did they not distribute specail 'debit cards' whereby the money could not be wasted on booze, gambling and cigs. And who can forget the overseas residents getting some of the stimulus, planned to stimulate 'our economy', agree?

Now I don't deny anyone the right to spend thier money on these items, but not the tax payers money.

I further stated that such a card needed a 'use by date' and, if not spent within this timeframe, any remaining credit would have been forfited.

Now I am certain that even you agree this would have stimulated the economy.

My other beef was the employment rules.

Blind freddy knows the last thing you do when times are tough is make employing people harder.

Now you can go on rubbishing me as long as you like, nothing sticks! But may I suggest you try saying something positive to defend the actions of your favourite PM.

BTW, I note that Madam PM isn't faring that well and the honeymoon may well be over. Remember, she was a huge part of all this wasted billions and people will find it very hard to forget that.

Remember the school tuck shop for $600 grand? Her baby!

Rehctub, while I realise the Liberal Party manifesto disallows you to even consider thinking outside the accompanying right wing propaganda, try ...... just "try" for one minute to understand why the stimulus was enacted.

It was put in place in order to **stimulate** the economy, in other words to provide employment and spending power in order to keep the economy turning over instead of drifting into lesser activity and eventually recession and depression. The insulation project, in this regard, was an **outstanding** success. For political reasons it was stopped owing to the 4 deaths and the lack of safety; it was a dismal "political" failure. The **economic** benefits were FANTASTIC however.

There was NOT "billions wasted" as you falsely claim while following the Liberal manifesto to the letter. There was a MAGNIFICENT economic return..... more jobs , more money, more purchases, more manufacturing, more food in mouths, more clothes on backs etc etc etc.

OK, lets see you back up the false "billions wasted" claim. A billion is one thousand million. As you have claimed "billions" (plural), that means you are claiming a sum of over 2 thousand million dollars of stimulus money has **NOT** produced any return to the economy whatsoever. Come on rehctub, back yourr claim up with **FACTS** and **FIGURES**. I want **YOUR** accounting that shows, proof positive, a ZERO return........ in other words WASTED BILLIONS.

Don't forget now........ provide the proof and actual accounting figures that at least 2 thousand million dollars of stimulus money has not produced an economic return. I'm not interested in hearing more or your right wing rhetoric and "opinion", just give me your accounting figures for the sum you claim was lost to our country, showing how, in mathematical detail, it produced no outcome.

Benq
I am not an accountant, nor do I claim to be, furthermore, the wated billions is not confined to the stimulus alone.

From memory we started with a new government and around 70 billion in the bank.

Now, less than three years later, that money is gone and we have a debt of some 60 billion or more.

That's 130 billion. Right!

Now, what has been achieved from this?

How about the money needed to fix the insulation programe and restore peoples houses so they are safe to live in.

How long will this go on and how much will this cost?

How much have houses been de-valued by having insulation installed that has been proven to be 'at risk'?

Would you feel comfortable buying a house knowing the insulation may have been fitted by some dodgy opporator?

How much was wasted on the Copenhargen fiasco?

Did we really need to pay $58 for a bowl of soup?

I seriously doubt you would find anyone that doesn't agree, yourself excluded, that there have been billions wated on failed projects.

Again, I would love to provide exact figures, but that's simply out of my league.

Benq,

Irrespective of how loyal and blinkered a Labor tragic you are, even blind Freddy can see that the BER was extremely wasteful, with construction costs 3 to 5 times what they should have been. Given the $16bn tag, $2 billion wasted on this alone would be a conservative estimate. $8bn would be closer to the mark.

As for the $9bn cash splash which went almost exclusively on imported electronics, a few jobs were retained for a few months. It would have been cheaper to employ these people directly.

While some stimulus might have been required, the retention of jobs could have been achieved for a fraction of the $42bn spent.

What we are now faced with is a desperate attempt to restore the budget with a tax grab on mining.

Labor is not being judged on its intentions, but its appalling incompetence in implementation.

SM said "Labor is not being judged on its intentions, but its appalling incompetence in implementation."

Absolutely agree.

However for rehctub to throw up the old JG was part of the group responsible, ignores the main reason for the leadership spill. It was about KR's management style and failure to consult and inform others in his team. Many MPs and Ministers only knew about changes to the ETS through the media. Dictatorial styles don't go down well in political parties in countries like Australia.

JG was a part of the Group of Four but how much influence did she have with Kevin? JG may have warned him on a number of issues as I suspect Swan and Tanner may have as well, but look to the nature of the man.

I must eat humble pie, as many moons ago I wrote on here that the leader largely doesn't matter it is policies that count, but in this case clearly that rule does not always apply.

So what we have in rehctub's reply to me giving him the opportunity to back up his false claims, is an admiktted complete and total incapacity to back up his political **opinion** with facts and figures.

The country is full of armchair critics of both political parties. These armchair critics **ALL** know exactly what's wrong with the country, exactly who's to blame and exactly what needs to be done to rectify problems. How do I know that they know all the answers? Well, all you have to do is ask them, and they'll tell you exactly what's wrong, and they'll tell you they are right.

BUT.......

Then you ask them to back up their "opinions" with fact and figures and guess what? All you get is more political "opinion"........ just like rehctub and SM.

That's why these armchair critics and armchair experts (on both sides of the political spectrum) live their lives in obscurity (people like rehctub and Shadow Minister etc etc) while people with "real" intelligence and drive achieve the highest office in the land.

Do not feel bad about rechtub and shadow minister, both have axes to grind.
SM fits exactly his name here, lost bewildered and prone to silly assertions.
Both can not bring themselves to know the truth Labor will have an increased majority.
Abbott the Rabbott will be the next head to roll.
Maybe even before the election, if it is months away he is more than unlikely to be there.
Abbott who got behind his leader, with knife in hand should look over his shoulder post election Hockey will emerge to lead.

Belly, I doubt whether anyone is likely to put up their hand to overthrow Abbott before the election. They were probably beginning to think they had a chance before Labor decided to act.
One would expect Abbott and most of his shadow front bench to go quietly down the gurgler after election time. I predict that Turnbull will take up where he left off after the election - although I'm sure Hockey will be in for the contest.

If you had that right about Turnbull, no better second in charge could be found than Hockey.
But Turnbull while the man for the job may not get an invite.
However for the very same reason Rudd went Abbott well could too,and before the election.
The man has form, he just can not keep his mouth out of trouble, both increasing ALP polls and decreasing conservative ones can maybe will unseat him before the loss.
In time it will Be such as Turnbull who returns Liberals to power

Belly,

I agree that it may be tempting to jettison Abbott before the election,
However, I can't see that anyone would really want to take up the leadership post at such short notice, lose the election and have their chance dashed before they've had a chance to really stamp their personality on the leadership.
They were having a bit of a coasting ride toward election day prior to Rudd's demise, however, now they are going to have to articulate their policies and control Abbott's mouth at the same time.
If Abbott loses, I think his shadow ministers, who were all shunted into position after they ousted Turnbull, will be washed up.
Turnbull decided to stick around because he knows he is Prime Minister material - and he was incensed that Rudd pushed aside the ETS. My bet is if Abbott loses, the Liberals will do an about face and rush back to Turnbull.

benq, you asked me to provide actual figure of the money that has been wasted, and I can't. I have told you that.

So, rather than try to make fun of me, why don't you tell us just where the money went and what KR has achieved with our 130 odd Billion.

Now I recon you might be puching it 'up hill' if you genuinely think that billions have not been wasted.

Now as for Tony Abbot, he has placed enough presure on Krud, that he has resigned, and that is a win for all Australians in it self, don't you all think.

Meanwhile, madam Pm is doing a great job at upsetting the gays and the god botherers.

Ploitics todays seems like a good old game of 'foot in mouth', hey!

Benq
Another question, or questions.

Do you think the wasted money from the stimulus was a good thing. Wasteage such as on gambling, or those tens of millions sent to OS people, or the $600K tuck shop, or the bungled insulation program and the possible billions needed to fix it, or the wasted millions on the solar rebate system.

I suggest you try telling your story to those who have lost their jobs, or lost their ligitimate businesses, or, lost thier family homes, or even worse, lost thier lives, or those of loved ones.

Do you really think they feel the billions have been well spent and that your beloved 'lord Rud' is the cleverest man on the planet.

I doubt it!

I think you are a typicle 'one eyed' labor brainwashed toss!

Wake up and smell the roses.

Dear rehctub,

If benq's a "labor toss," as you so rudely
put it, then what are you?
And if we wouldn't have had the stimulus
package - the entire country would have gone
down the gurgler just like Greece did.

In the opinion of the rest of the world -
Australia was one of the very few nations to survive
the global financial disaster thanks to the fast action
of Kevin Rudd and his government.

Would you have preferred to see Australia with massive
unemployment, bankruptcy, even suicides, but millions
of dollars in the government's coffers?
Obviously, you must have salted away your wealth at
the expense of those around you and you really don't
care for the survival of your own country and its
people. In my opinion it sounds criminal on your part
to accuse the previous PM for saving the country and
its people from a major disaster.

*And if we wouldn't have had the stimulus
package - the entire country would have gone
down the gurgler just like Greece did.*

Sorry Foxy, but that is basically nonsense.

Greece has gone down the tube, through far
too much "Govt debt, including cooking the
books. It eventually caught up with them.

Australia came through the GFC so well, because
what Costello had set up. Tight regulation of
banks, so they had no shonky loans to deal with,
as did British and American Banks. No Govt debt,
one of the few Govts in the world to be in this
position. An economy that had been booming, perhaps
even too strongly before. In WA restaurants could
actually find staff again, so could farmers, unlike
before, when things were overheated.

If there had been no stimulus package, unemployment
might have crept up a bit higher, maybe to 7% rather then
5%. But contrary to popular opinions, a bit of a recession
is not such a bad thing. Those who took too much risk,
overborrowed, run businesses who are not viable anyhow etc
go under, new businesses later on open, stronger healthier.

Greece is in a totally different position. Govts borrowed
so much for so long, that lenders started to question
their ability to repay their debts and wanted higher
interest rates, due to the higher risk. What it came
down to was that because of all the debt, higher interest
rates would send the Govt broke, they simply can't pay the
bill. So they need cut spending, less social services,
lower Govt wages etc and now people are rioting, as they
refuse to accept it. That is driving tourists away, so
they will be even worse off, then before.

What Costello had set up saved the Australian economy,
not what Swann did

No yabby, Mr Costello did NOT set it up. That's a "liberal" myth.

The truth is, the MINERS were responsible for our surplus. Any, I repeat "any" treasurer would have been capable of building such a great surplus if, like Mr Costello, they rode on the back of ............... THE BIGGEST MINING BOOM TIMES AUSTRALIA HAS EVER HAD IN IT'S ENTIRE HISTORY. As a result, for several years, our economy was literally GOING THROUGH THE ROOF! Thanks to the miners.

A trained monkey could have produced a great surplus during those boom days!

But it's a nice "myth" yabby, and has become a part of PC Liberal folklore. Trouble is, only staunch Liberal party faithful "believe" it. Why? Because they see political gain in the propagation of the myth.

Not so Benq, because of course Mr Costello started making reforms
10 years before that. The price of iron ore and coal rocketed
10 years later.

What Costello did provide was an economy for business to flourish,
and so it did. What Costello did was pay off debts for years
and put money away for public service retirement costs.

We know what happens when Labor is faced with a cookie jar, the
cookies are soon gone. Perhaps they should have hired a trained
monkey, rather then Mr Swann.

I accept that it was Keating/Hawke who started with economic
reforms and Costello continued with them. But Swann ain't no
Keating, nore a Costello. More like a goose, I'm afraid, as we
saw when he was about to ruin the mining industry.

Yabby,

I'm actually quite impressed that you accept that Keating/Hawke were responsible for reforms. I've always heard that their's were the real reforms and that Costello/Howard were good managers of those reforms.
Perhaps you can explain which team was responsible for which reforms.
This is not a trick or snide question - I'd really like to know.

Foxy,

Do you still believe in Santa. The stimulus package was a wild over reaction that we will be paying off for a decade.

Most people held onto their staff as they were well aware of the difficulty of replacing them when things came right.

Greece is the prime example of decades of Socialist rule.

Poirot, that's correct. Previous Labor governments set up the reforms, conditions and organisational infrastructure that enabled the mining boom to contribute so effectively to the surplus. Many of them bitterly opposed by the Liberals, but "of course" KEPT by the Liberals (and even expanded slightly) when they were elected.

As I said, even a trained monkey could, and should, have produced a good surplus during the mining boom.

But the Liberal "myths" from the Party faithful continue on of course. It's good for a laugh. It shows why they ended up in opposition and why Mr Howard was not just kicked out of the top job but kicked out of parliament altogether. The Liberals are sore losers. They believe they were born to rule.

Poirot, the last PM who refused to change was in fact Fraser. Howard
as treasurer, nearly resigned his job because of that. Keating
could finally make the long overdue changes. Floating of the A $,
deregulation of the banks, selling off Qantas and the CBA, the
start of the reduction of tariffs, the end of centralised wage
fixing and move to enterprise bargaining. But when he left,
Australia still had a major Govt debt and budget deficit.

Costello made major changes to the tax system, paid off Govt debt,
made Australia more business friendly by clamping down on militant
unions, deregulated the labour market to some degree, reduced tariffs
even further, got rid of a whole lot of small taxes with the GST,
continued with the reduction in tariffs.

Above all, he fought Howard and others all the way, when they tried
to put their hands in the cookie jar, for he felt more tax money
should be returned to taxpayers. The last of those tax returns will
just hit your wage packet on July 1, if you are on wages.

On that one, Swan had little choice but to promise what Costello
had set up.

Costello also reorganised the regulation of banks by appointing
a tough regulator, which got the banks through the GFC in such
great condition.

Under Costello interst rates were low, so was unemployment, as
both small and large businesses were investing, for Govt gave
them the confidence and conditions to do so.

Mr Swan was ready to send business down the tube and it took voter
unrest and the sacking of a PM, for the Govt to see reason. Mr
Swan now blows with a new wind, but he hardly has talent.

Dear Foxy
You know by now that I only throw mud when enough has been thrown at me.

Now as for 'what am I', simple, as always I am a swinging voter, but, above all else, I am 'risk taker' and I will vote for who places the least amount of risk in what I do, that being, running a small business.

Now it's easy for those who work for someone to critisize their every move, but, remember this, for every worker in a small business, someone has taken a risk to give them that job.

Now rather than whinge about 'workers rights', how about you lot spare a thought for our 'risk takers', because, without them, you would be out there trying to find work in an extreemly competetive workforce, whereby, perhaps the top 50% would have a job and the rest would starve.

Think about this the next time you let loose on someone who actually puts thier house on the line to provide jobs for the masses.

Of cause you can all have a go yourselves, but hey, very few of you have the guts to have a go and have this attitude that having a job is a god given right, rather than the privilage that it is.

Now as for you'Krud cronies' I don't really think you realise just how close your DH leader came to ruining this country with his mining tax fiasco.

Now as for Mdam PM, well, in just a week, she has upset the gays, upset the bible bashers and upset all but the multi national miners, of which, I doubt any of them vote here anyway.

So who does that leave?

Boy the truth hurts on this site, hey!