This morning I heard on the news that Tony Abbott is talking to the Greens about an "Emissions TRADING Scheme".

I've already laid the groundwork for people to understand that 'trading' and 'emissions' are simply making some very rich people even richer..

PROBLEMS.. Aside from the problems of 'vested interest' from various identities and political interests, the idea of "trading" is not neccessary to achieve the desired goal of reducing our carbon footprint.

Accountability is a horrific aspect. You pay money to buy 'Carbon Credits' which then go.....where ? we have no clue how genuine or feasible or even untainted by 3rd world corruption the 'offsets' side of things is.

CO2 OR SOCIAL AGENDA ? Closely linked to the whole idea of 'emissions trading' are 'social' goals linked to AGENDA 21 (look it up)

SIMPLE SOLUTION... as I've said already.. rather than 'trade'... a simple carbon tax, easily administered and dirECTLY applied to Solar Panel/Grid Connect inverters will immediately reduce our carbon footprint, AND our electricity costs!

Why does it have to be so complicated as the Greens/Labor/Abbott(?) would have us believe?

Agree- no 'Trading' scheme at all. It's nothing but a gigantic con.

Spread the word Hazz... for more info see Glenn Beck.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOBLr9fCjj0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft8LfE7AI2w&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvcuylMrkXk&feature=related
Hoax Planned in 1961

It sure isn't often that "I" will quote or link to the Green Left Weekly..but in this case I'll make a measured exception.

http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/36791

They are correct about the capitalists making megabucks out of it all, but incorrect about the solution being 3rd world Justice as they see it.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/12/carbon-trading-fraud-in-belgium-up-to-90-of-the-whole-market-volume-was-caused-by-fraudulent-activities/

FRAUD is rife.

http://www.takepart.com/news/2010/06/14/kyoto-unprotocol-watchdog-group-unearths-carbon-fraud

But to me..the clearest evidence of the 'scam' side of things is in the people who are driving the agenda and how they are connected to the profitable aspects, through directorships and shareholdings and WORSE oh MUCH worse... political intrigue to FORCE people to sign up.

This is lynch pin of the whole thing.. voluntary involvment won't bring in the biggggGGGG bucks.. but LAWS will ensure it.

SO...."laws" to force TRADING.. are BAD laws... very bad laws.

Laws which directly contribute to our own lowering of our OWN carbon footprint in Australia.. by subsidizing SOLARpanel/Grid connect inverters... are GOOD laws.

They also happen to be a shipload easier and less costly to administer.

ALGOREisRICH,

we will end up with some sort of scheme despite the fact that it is a con. There are actually some 'true believers' in the gw camp.They swallow pseudo science which mostly stems from the evolution myth. Fortunately like the evolution myth the different dogmas that many of the prideful scientist have clash with each other. They try the old line that 'the science is settled' knowing full well that even among their own faith their is many different opinions. The fact that the IPCC report was manipulated, twisted and fraudulent was enough to convince many just wanting the truth to have their eyes opened a little. Abbot knows that his private belief and instinct of gw being cr*p is true but politically unacceptable. Rudd also knows that his rhetoric of moral dilemmas was nothing but hypocrisy. We are all already paying much more for water, electricity gas etc in order to fund these men in white coats doing a pathetic job at playing god. It is a pity they don't do something useful about real environmental issues. We all want a cleaner less damaged world but unfortunately the green religion does more damage than good.

King Hazza:>>Agree- no 'Trading' scheme at all. It's nothing but a gigantic con.<<

Correct, down to the last detail.

Boazy, nothing personal but I find it hard to pretend you are any one else.
Worry not, Abbott will NEVER lead this country.
We will have an ETS, it may well be bought about one day by a Liberal government.
Now polls against me, I again say here openly,an understanding of the basic,s of politics will show you your party is not going to win.

Sorry but I think you are underestimating the stupidy of voters, Penrith proved that, they all waddled out of Maccas to vote for the Libs. Well all you people on disability pensions can start getting out of your wheelchairs & go get a job because Tony will make sure you don't get any any more 'free handouts'. We suffered 12 years of Liberal Govt, now it seems we are going to be faced with more of the same, only most likely even worse under The Abbot. May Tonys God help us all.

Silvia you NEVER met a Labor foot soldier with more Passion for the party than me.
NSW ALP is my thread, it told of the defeat and its numbers hours before the polls opened.
It was earned and deserved, the rabble running NSW is not ALP.
And in no way will Penrith have an impact on federal elections.
Abbott the RABBOTT, did one brilliant thing in the run up to these polls.
He said nothing, hiding his true self.

Dear Belly....the Libs are not and never will be 'my' party... I'm not a member of any party whatsoever..not even Freddy Niles "Christian' group.

At the moment, the Libs represent the lesser of 2 evils.. EXCEPT for this moronic 'trading' aspect to CO2 control.

WHAT IS THE CLEAN DEVELOPMENT MECHANISM?

http://unfccc.int/kyoto_protocol/mechanisms/clean_development_mechanism/items/2718.php

//The Clean Development Mechanism (CDM), defined in Article 12 of the (Kyoto) Protocol, allows a country with an emission-reduction or emission-limitation commitment under the Kyoto Protocol (Annex B Party) to implement an emission-reduction project in developing countries. Such projects can earn saleable certified emission reduction (CER) credits, each equivalent to one tonne of CO2, which can be counted towards meeting Kyoto targets.

The mechanism is seen by many as a trailblazer. It is the first global, environmental investment and credit scheme of its kind, providing a standardized emissions offset instrument, CERs.

A CDM project activity might involve, for example, a rural electrification project using solar panels or the installation of more energy-efficient boilers.//

PLEASE NOTICE the term 'DEVELOPING COUNTRIES' in Paragraph 1

It boils down to "we keep polluting but help them not to"

How about we look after our OWN back yard and our OWN citizens and our OWN CO2 footprint...before embracing Marxist "Income re-distrubtion" via the Kyoto "make Maurice Strong, Al Gore & Bob Carr inCREDibly richhhhh" protocol.

SOLAR PANELS..YES.. but in OUR back yard (actually..on our own roofs)..not that of some dictator run/'corruption to the eye teeth' 3rd world country! Where our hard earned carbon dollar will end up in some scumbags Swiss bank account.

'

Don't know about Abbott not leading this country it's all a bit ugly at the moment.
There are three simple reasons why a trading scheme.
1. Big business wants it because they can exploite it and make money out of it.
2. money for the government to pay off the electorate for rising costs.
3. A great big new tax.
Now a carbon tax is of course the best way to settle this but now that Abbott has attacked the "big new tax" situation they can hardly introduce one can they. If poor old confused Kevin could have come up with a royalties trading scheme he would be a national hero.

Nairbe :) please see the 'who' of it all.

Follow the dots mate.

http://www.generationim.com/about/team.html Chairman is...?

http://www.climateexchangeplc.com/investor-relations/shares-in-issue-top-10-holders Number 5 down the list is.....?

http://www.camcoglobal.com/en/invsmajorshareholders.html

The TOP investor is.....? a company owned by....who ? :)

http://www.chicagoclimatex.com/content.jsf?id=67

(GIM has a 10% shareholding in CCX.)

Who is the 8th Director down the list ?

What did that man and 'me' (Al Gore) do in 1992?

http://www.globalens.com/DocFiles/PDF/cases/Preview/GL1429049Ppdf.pdf

Who was also a DIRECTOR of that company MMT ? :)

http://securities.stanford.edu/1008/AxlervMoltenMeta/001.html

see "Nature of Action" paragraph 7

Are you beginning to see what you did not see before ? :)

Hay Tony, you are only there because you resisted the Emissions trading scam.

Now is not the time to try to hedge your bets. If you compromise then you are no better than Turnbull. If you sacrifice your principles to buy some green preferences, you are no better than KRudd, & you will loose many more first preference votes, than you will gain preferences.

Stay strong, & call bulldust what it is, bullsh1t, gone dry.

The European Carbon Trading scheme seems both unstable and insecure.
A few of months ago it crashed from E30 to E15 then E1 and may
or may not have been caused by recycled credits.

It is open to fraud and I have not seen any reason an Australian
scheme would not also be vulnerable to such manipulation.

The Russian Oligarchs cleaned up big time by taking over decrepit
soviet era factories and closing them down and selling the carbon
credits to the dopey Europeans.
Where else do you think they got the money to buy Gazprom and other
major Russian industries ?

They are now probably salivating at doing the same in the US & here.

"SIMPLE SOLUTION... as I've said already.. rather than 'trade'... a simple carbon tax..."

Why does a solution always have to be by way of paying tribute "to" government, as if they have some kind of moral authority in CO2? I mean let's face it, they're the ones who lumbered us with coal-fired power stations for the last hundred years.

I"ve just seen a web ad by government telling people not to send nasty SMSs to each other. You will look in vain in the Constitution for a section granting government the power to waste energy and money on this activity, and that applies to a lot, perhaps most, of what government does.

If we really want to reduce our carbon footprint, why do we assume that government has a right to grow as big as it wants, constitutional or not, wasting other people's money on whatever it feels like; but the people who work at productive activity and own the money, have no right to it but what the government decides not to take? Is that fair?

Why not abolish all branches of government that are not explicitly mentioned in the Constitution, starting with the Department of Climate Change, their big flash new office building, complete with aircon and central heating, all their overseas trips, their salaries, holidays, and hotel stays? That''d have to be a good start, wouldn't it?

Al, thanks for walking Nairbe and I through that.
The brains leading the environmentalist sheep of today are as far removed from the "Silent Spring" ethos as is Dow Chemicals. The fact that the sheep know nothing other than what global media feed them does not seem to distract the zealous nature of their defense.

This 9 minutes of straight talking verifiable facts should give a clearer focus the credibility of the environmental agenda you have been sold.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEggt0ldQUI

Hey AL,
Great paper trail, though i think we must have got crossed lines.
I was trying for sarcasm. Failed obviously. Just doing economics shows us that business has much to gain from an ETS. The government money is to keep the "greedy generation" quiet at the polls and of course the big new tax is the Abbott plan to over through a government.
I must say your paper trail helps balance out the Bush administration oil interests and Iraq game to the Al Gore save the whales campaign.
It would appear that there is no one that is really doing it for the best interests of the global community, just for power and money.

Wonderful responses :) (all)....

But if that paper trail got you going..WAIT till you see THIS ONE :)

BIGGER than Ben Hur!

Note this paper trail :)

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203863204574346610120524166.html

Who lent money to who? and...for what ? (hint..what did Obama just BAN in the USA?) *think oil*

Look at what this kindly old man did recently... very recently

http://www.marketfolly.com/2010/06/soros-fund-management-bullish-on.html

See the section on 'increased positions' look for a certain oil company starting with.. 'P'

That puts his total (largest of all his investments) to around $800,000,000.. not exactly pocket change.

Sooooo....

We have the 'kindly old man' ramping up his investment in a Brazilian Oil company. And.. strangely.. we have the Obama team lending that same company 2 billion for off shore exploration :)

Soros has a foundation called "The Centre for American Progress"

What do 'they' do ?

http://www.americanprogress.org/aboutus/staff/PodestaJohn.html

Who appointed him ? "George Soros"

SOROS... huge investor in Petrbras
CAP/Podesta.. advise Obama to ban off shore oil in the USA
Obama does so.
What will happen to the price of oil in the USA ?
Who can supply that oil ? :)

Who is this man?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podesta_Group Ayeee TONY...

Which large company does he selectively represent? (starts with B)

Is Tony related to John ? :) u betcha.. brothers.

Does John and his Centre for American progress have much influence on the White house ? :)

//Most recently, Podesta served as co-chair of President Obama’s transition, where he coordinated the priorities of the incoming administration’s agenda, oversaw the development of its policies, and spearheaded its appointments of major cabinet secretaries and political appointees.//

SOROS--> CENTRE FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS--> JOHN PODESTA --> WHITE HOUSE/POLICY-TRANSITION TEAM.

WHITE HOUSE --> BANS OFF SHORE DRILLING IN USA.

OBAMA/USA LEND 2BILL TO PETROBRAS FOR OIL EXPLORATION.

SOROS --> BIGGEST INVESTMENT= "PETROBRAS"

"WHO WINS" ? :)

A small group inhabits OLO that is waiting with baited breath for election night.
Waiting for the sheer enjoyment of telling me I got it wrong.
I have not got it wrong, Labor will be returned Abbott will never be elected to lead Australia.;
I may not live to see it[ not unwell but not well no intention to go yet] but we will have an ETS within 6 years America will too.
See Abbott is no savior, he overnight would vote for an ETS if it benefited him.
I think life exists within the Liberal party, that our country needs a solid alternative, that we one day will get just that.
Abbott remains unpopular, even within his party, five minutes mid election campaign of telling us what truly is on his mind can, maybe will put a big swing away from this fraud.

Belly, it looks like a few of those up the top of your totem are not as sure as you, that Ruddy will win again. I think they are panicking, & rightly so.

It doesn't matter too much who is the lib leader, provided it isn't that Rudd clone, Turnbull, the people are starting to see through Rudd's play acting at the "nice, smart" PM. So many of them now just want to get rid of him, they'll vote for anyone, just like your lot did.

Just think back a bit mate, you couldn't have liked Rudd too much, he is nothing like a labor leader, you just wanted Howard out. You probably would have voted for the devil himself, if necessary to achieve that end. Hell, most of you would have even voted for Latham.

Well, that's how a large & growing percentage of people feel about Rudd the dud. The only 2 people I can think of, who for me would be worse than Rudd would be Obama, or Winston Churchill, & that's saying a bit.

I don't think the voters will go for Julia either, they are about sick of lefties in skirts. Every one of them you have tried have been hopeless, although not quite as bad as Rudd.

Should be a fun couple of days in labor back rooms.

Guiillard ...Imagine... a woman 'living in sin'... while the Lords Prayer is recited at the opening of Parliament.. surreal to say the least.

Brown... living in 'abomination' and no wonder he doesn't like the Lords prayer recited.

Ohhhh those pesky Christian values eh.... but don't forget.. those values also include the bit about specks and planks..I so better not say more on that stuff.

BELLY.. do you also have shares in ENVEX ? why do we want an Emissions TRADING Scheme? rather than an emmisions CONTROL scheme which actually benefits the nation ?

I'd really like to know your answer.

Do you actually 'see' that 'trading' is just a vast capitalist/right wing trick to make a small number of people VERY wealthy ? even when the "Left" are using it ?

Boazy: << Guiillard ...Imagine... a woman 'living in sin'... while the Lords Prayer is recited at the opening of Parliament.. surreal to say the least.

Brown... living in 'abomination' and no wonder he doesn't like the Lords prayer recited. >>

It's not Julia Gillard or Bob Brown who are "surreal" here. The concepts of "living in sin" and "abomination" are hateful anachronisms that are only meaningful to prurient religious frootloops.

Religious rituals should have no place in parliament. Perhaps in the unlikely event that Gillard becomes PM, she might have enough 'balls' to get rid of the current discriminatory and inappropriate practice.

CJM

Looks like your wish is granted.

Would love to see Gillard drop the Christian ritual for something far more inclusive.

AGIR

Nyah, nyah, nyah. Childish? Yes. But given the value of your hate-filled (to anyone who is not an fundy Christian) rants over the years, probably more than you deserve.

Forgiven Fraccy... I baited for that one I guess.

But back to the issue eh.. 'TRADING' ? do you see this as a good thing or a bad? Who would really benefit from a carbon TRADING system?

Do you think a more effective approach would be a simple direct Tax approax (let's call it a community co-contribution) toward solarizing our roofs and reducing our carbon footprint at the same time....

Whadaya reckon ?