AJ...one more thing...I don't mind my own faith being criticized.

All I ask is that it be based on sound facts :) ie..the same approach we just worked through.
Thanx.

Boaz, as a recovering Christian AJ is apparently more inclined to indulge your comparative mythology game. To me it's something akin to comparing Mickey Mouse with Donald Duck comics.

Indeed, AJ expresses very well why some of us are less concerned with Islam than with Christianity in Australia:

<< if Muslims were posting here on OLO as much as Christians are; if they were the ones with powerful lobby groups influencing our government; if they were the ones pushing their religion into our state schools; if they were the ones with big, rich, flashy cults like Hillsong that seem to like drawing in the youth by impressing the ones that like shiny things , only to pollute their minds; if they were the ones knocking on my door while I’m still asleep on a Saturday morning; if they were the ones opposing reforms in this country based on an unprovable and unfounded belief system; if they were the ones inventing Trojan horses like Intelligent Design to sneak religion into science classrooms; then I would be criticizing them more. >>

I've said something similar to one of your previous incarnations, before I stopped playing your game.

AJ Philips wrote:

"Christianity was lucky enough to be dragged kicking and screaming out of their[dark ages] with the assistance of the secular values of Western societies."

Absolutely spot on.

And that is why Europe surged ahead in science and technology while the Arab world, still the heart of Dar-ul-Islam, remains technologically backward. What is the sometimes called the "golden age" of Islamic science is really the dying embers of a PRE-ISLAMIC spirit of scientific inquiry that Islam killed.

I am glad that you understand the importance of "draw Muhammad" day.

Grateful wrote:

"stevenlmeyer: i'm aware of the issue but haven't given it much thought. besides its way off topic"

It is NOT "off topic" because, as a number of posters here have pointed out, one of the defining characteristics of fundamentalists is the desire to impose their beliefs on others by force or intimidation.

In the light of controversies such as the Muhammad cartoons your assertion that you "haven't given it much thought" beggars belief.

Do you really expect anyone with a functioning brain cell to believe that statement?

In any event your EVASION answers my question. If you were truly prepared to play by the rules of liberal democracy you would not have to think about it.

Grateful,

You are just another Muslim seeking to impose his beliefs on the rest of us. I suspected as much from the start and your evasiveness has confirmed it.

Steven

I take your point regarding "appeasement". However, I find Christianity to be of equal concern, more because of its insidious nature. While Islam is has all the subtlety of a hammer, Christianity operates under tacit approval. We have a complete religious nutter in the form of Steven Fielding, right now being given air space that does nothing to help anyone and simply stultifies any enlightened progress.

AJ has already summarised my views extremely well and CJ has beaten me to the punch by quoting him.

We cannot lose our autonomy by appeasing ANY religion. Nor can we manage religion through force and alienation.

It is a fraught and difficult path between rational tolerance and outright discrimination. There is no magic bullet - and in a predominately 'christian' nation our vigilance needs be focused on Christian fundamentalists.

grateful you asked about Atheism in light of this meaning of fundamentalism: "Can we say that a fundamentalist someone who is prepared to uphold a view or belief despite reason or evidence to the contrary. The belief or view is non-negotiable"

The difference is an Atheist is not upholding a view other than to say they do not believe in a supernatural deity of which there is thus far no proof or evidence. Religion is faith-based belief and as such implies a lack of evidence in definition.

Faith is not evidence and the view is only non-negotiable due to lack of evidence.

If I can use a simple example, ie. not believing in the Tooth Fairy or Easter Bunny does not make someone a fundamentalist non-believer.

The scariest thing about faith based beliefs is there is always the potential to lead vulnerable people to commit atrocities without reason or question, whether it be in the name of Allah or God, recognising that most mainstream Muslims and Christians do not support violence.

The idea that people are born corrupt is inane frankly, and if that were true even religious beliefs would not save us from ourselves.

Boazy,

Your comments to grateful...*sigh*