STEVEN re Foxy's recommendation to read Loewenstiens "My Israel Question" I can save you the trouble...it's utter self hating socialist rubbish.

He begins with an anecdote about Hanan Ashrawi and just runs on emotion and unsupported (not rationally at least) anti Israel bluster for the whole book.. it seeks to create guilt and offer nothing by way of realistic solution. A complete waste of time. (to think..I went to a library to get this.. time from my life better spent on other things)

CUSTARD.. have fun :)

LOL Foxy,

Let's see.

You write:

"I suggest that you broaden your outlook ..."

The original post on this is about the plight of the Kurds and the direction being taken by the Turkish State since the electoral victory of the AKP.

--The Kurds were an oppressed people before Israel existed.

--Turkey's experiment with secular governance – imposed top down by Kemal Ataturk and his followers – is arguably ending.

These are two facts that have nothing to do with Israel. They would most likely be happening if Israel had never existed. The latter especially is important. The direction in which Turkey will move has a significance which extends far beyond relations with Israel.

Yet from post 2 onwards we have been discussing little but Israel. I am sure the posters here, like their counterparts throughout history, have what appear to them to be adequate rationalisations for injecting their obsession into a discussion which at most only peripherally involves Israel.

Looking at it logically why shouldn't we be discussing the Kurds and Turkey? Why should this thread be about Israel?

One symptom of IOD is the detection of nefarious Zionist plots everywhere. I thought Examinator was the all time champion here when he detected a nefarious Zionist plot in my defence of Fredrick Toben's right to free speech; but Arjay eclipses him.

You write:

"You're governed by your emotions..."

Am I?

Or is it those afflicted by IOD who are governed by their obsession?

Just as an aside Foxy, you may want to rethink your habit of handing out gratuitous advice. As it happens I have read both Lowenstein and Morris and follow Haaretz closely. I have been honoured to be a guest at the homes of members of the illustrious Sachar family.

To return to one of the topics of the original post.

There is little doubt that the AKP government is trying to position Turkey as a leader of Sunni Islam. One example of this is what appears to be a government backed attempt to revise the ahadith by getting rid of, for example:

QUOTE

"If a husband's body is covered with pus and his wife licks it clean, she still wouldn't have paid her dues."

END QUOTE

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/14/AR2006071401381.html

This led to a certain amount of aggro among Muslim scholars. Officially now Turkey is "classifying", "interpreting" and "translating" the ahadith.

The BBC discussed this here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7264903.stm

QUOTE:

Turkey is preparing to publish a document that represents a revolutionary reinterpretation of Islam - and a controversial and radical modernisation of the religion.

The country's powerful Department of Religious Affairs has commissioned a team of theologians at Ankara University to carry out a fundamental revision of the Hadith, the second most sacred text in Islam after the Koran.

END QUOTE

Imagine the Rudd Government commissioning a team of theologians to reinterpret Christianity!

Turkey has also become the leading source of Muslim creationist textbooks.

The AKP is playing a very shrewd game. While maintaining their links with Europe and NATO they are slowly re-aligning Turkey as an Islamic Republic though hopefully one that will be more democratic and less repressive than Iran.

Now this, I submit, has the makings of a much more interesting discussion than a mono-maniacal focus on Israel.

Dear Steven,

I aplogise to Custard for again having to
be off-topic here but I need to respond
to your last post to me to clarify a few
points directed at me:

1) You were the one that raised the issue on this
thread of IOD (Israel Obsession Disorder),
I didn't. I merely responded by suggesting
that there wasn't a psychological disorder
as you were suggesting but
simply attempts to present the other side of
the story.

2) My second post was again in response to your
stating that "I know exactly what I'm dealing with,"
by suggeesting that you broaden your outlook,
because from your posts the perception given,
was that you didn't.

My referring you to other sources, was not meant
as "gratuitous advice." It's merely an occupational
hazard, my being a librarian.

I am very pleased to learn that you read "Haaretz"
regularly, and that you're familiar with the other
sources I quoted. Doubly pleased that you've read
Antony Loewenstein's book. Because then you're aware
that if indeed it was "rubbish," as another poster
has claimed, Melbourne University Publishing director
Louise Adler would not have supported the project.
She understood the importance of publishing the work
that is a searching discussion from a significant
new voice in one of the most important debates of
our times.

As for your knowing the Sachar family - which ones?
My family has a history with some of them as well.

Ok, just in order to try and get back on topic here...

On the 21st May, the Autonomous Province of Kurdistan came under sustained artillery fire from Iran and also heavy airstrikes from Turkey (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64K4W520100521).

THAT IS WHY THEY ARE ACCUSED OF BEING IN BED WITH IRAN

The combined strikes, which both ignored the sovereignty of Iraq & of the autonomous province, killed "4" PKK activists and caused huge civilian casualties according to the KRG.

As Israel is not involved directly, obviously the civilian casualties mean nothing, nor does the fact that Turkey & Iran were working together against the Kurds, who have protected Allied Soldiers to the extent that not 1 Coalition Soldier was lost in Kurdish Controlled Territory.

For those with AIPD, say whatever you will, obviously the 9 killed for bashing the hell out of IDF troops and keeping them captive outweigh, by some enormous amount, the Kurdish Civilian casualties...

I'm just glad Israel didn't launch heavy airstrikes & shelling to kill only 4 terrorists, and huge numbers of civilians... Imagine the headlines. At least this way, only Reuters has the story, it wasn't mentioned to my knowledge in the Australian press.

Foxy wrote:

Doubly pleased that you've read Antony Loewenstein's book. Because then you're aware that if indeed it was "rubbish," ... Melbourne University Publishing director Louise Adler would not have supported the project."

The latter does not follow from the former.

Nor is Rudd a "new Moses" just because Adler said so.

Custard wrote:

"THAT IS WHY THEY [Turkey] ARE ACCUSED OF BEING IN BED WITH IRAN"

Don't be daft.

Turkey is not "in bed" with Iran. It is setting itself up as a RIVAL to Iran for leadership of the Muslim world.