Shadow Minister,

I can give some extremely relevant insight into the current situation via Dr Collins. It doesn't give names and dates but it is definitely relevant:

"Nowadays, however, ecclesiastical superiors are proactive and move with alacrity when accusations are made. Some priests now feel authorities have moved too far toward the other end of the spectrum... the rights of accused priests are often 'overlooked or ignored', ...often not been given legal advice or experienced support persons. They were frequently cajoled into making admissions and agreeing to resign... Priests are assumed to be guilty, their rights to fairness and a presumption of innocence ignored, and they are dismissed from ministry by bishops or superiors without any legal process, often before they have been afforded the opportunity to defend themselves. Accused priests have been kept in the dark by bishops witholding accusations or aspects of accusations. There is confusion between what are actually 'boundary violations', that is consensual adult sexual encounters, and the sexual abuse of children, which falls under the jurisdictions of criminal and canon law...A similar situation has emerged in the UK where a church lawyer who defends accused priests said that 'bishops cannot be trusted to help priests accused of child abuse'"

I hardly see this as a legal issue in terms of the pope. Surely this is a moral issue. By seeing the catholic church as a company and the pope as a ceo we are letting them off the hook. the pope is the spiritual leader to millions and there fore carries a moral responsibility irrespective of when it happened and the community values at the time. The excuse that times were different and we should consider this in our judgement is like excusing the church for the pain they have inflicted on the inhabitants of so many countries around the world. "Surely you see they were just savages". It was wrong then and it is wrong now. Even in the 16th and 17th century there were people who spoke out. The pope is guilty of moral indifference toward these people who were so systematically abused by his church. He should resign in shame or the catholic church should loose its status as a charity and church for it surely will only be a business. Our tolerance of the church machine is appalling, simply because we fear for our mortal soul? The church is the corrupt system that must answer for its behaviour.

>>Perhaps these "voices of reason" should indicate where the church has exposed any of their clergy in abuse<<
For instance, the scandal concerning the abuse of pupils at the all-male Canisius College (Kolleg) in Berlin - that in January started the snowballing of accusations, directed at teachers at not only Catholic-run institutions in Germany - were brought to public attention by Klaus Mertes SJ, the present director of the Jesuit College, after five former students notified him and named the two accused (who no longer work there). By the way, the students were 13-17 of age at that time, so technically at least some of the misdeeds look more like pederasty than pedophilia.

[If you can read German, here is the open letter addressed to about 600 former pupils (years 1970-1989) at the College: http://www.canisius.de/aktuelles/anhaenge/newsticker/anhaenge/missbrauch30.pdf. There Mertes explicitly admits there that “the scandal could not have remained undetected at the time, had a number of people in responsible positions not looked the other way”. ]

Our tolerance of the church machine is appalling, simply because we fear for our mortal soul? The church is the corrupt system that must answer for its behaviour. [Nairbe]

Spot on Nairbe with the exception of two points you expressed. I strongly disagree with the 'fear for our mortal soul' idea. The catholics I was raised with and do know, and have known for 40-50 years would never tolerate or hide sexual abuse if they had known about it in order to 'save their mortal souls'. Srike a light! Give the catholics who do possess morals and values and who are law abiding christians some credibility.

All posters here on OLO agree vehemently and/or strongly that the Priests Bishops and ArchBishops along with the Pope should be investigated and prosecuted if these individuals are found guilty
of paedophilia or coverups/protection. And rightly so!

For those not catholic and not knowing any catholics personally; use your common sense and intelligence realising that most catholics attending mass on sundays throughout their lives were totally unaware of the paedophilia until the media disclosed it after victims were forthcoming.

I would be stating these facts of any 'law abiding church goers' who were raised in a religion attending church on Sundays to use a dwelling to pray and receive some christian guidance and reassurance.

No,but they can try but will fail,as he is the head of millions of true believers in the RCC,,many have tried before,kings queens Dictators but have failed

George,

Even your example is a case where the head of school was simply extending the inquiry to other possibly effected parents. The issue was brought outside the school by the media.

Mjpb,

Compared to previously some the clergy are be dealt with severely, but no more so than else where in the community.