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The Forum > General Discussion > Should the pope be

Should the pope be

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Shadow,
I could be argued, that you are a little harsh. You are assuming that the pope actually has absolute say.
I would posit that he is merely a reflection of the politic.

I think you are forgetting or disregarding a number of factors:

Organizational theory in that "The first priority of any on going organization is its own survival"
Group dynamics and the politics involved.

He was voted in as an arch conservative (i.e. he supported the status quo) Clearly he was never going to be a reformer.

Clearly Ratzinger is/was simply an ambitious fallible human, now a CEO, if you like and the Catholic church is simply another inanimate corporation selling a product.

Like every other Corporation it is the means of self actualization and acquisition of power, for people.

A corporation where the executives use what ever means it takes to maintain personal and corporate power (human nature). As in every Corporation it attempts to manipulate/control it's market place.

One should therefore, not be surprised when they use the well worn justifications "that was the views of the time", "it was within the law" or "it was for the overall good of the church (corporation)".

One is only disappointed, if one sees the Church as anything more than a glorified corporation. Like all corporations, it by the mean above is or tries to become a law unto itself. We would be wise to remember Lord Acton's dictum.
Posted by examinator, Tuesday, 13 April 2010 10:09:46 AM
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To those justice obstruction commentors,

You probably aren't interested but the media are using the term "cover up" rather rhetorically. It is meant to sound dramatic and may help sell papers but don't take it so literally. For all the faults of Bishops handling priests in the past don't jump to the conclusion that criminal behaviour must be involved simply because the media refer to it as a "cover up".

BC,

The coverage to date picks out one organisation and hunts back for 50 years to dig dirt. Any criminals within the organisation get a multitude of media coverage any time they go to court for offences from many decades ago. In the meantime 1000s of criminals go to court for current offences each year in each state without mention and media don't dig up the dirt from 50 years ago from other organisations. This does tend to misrepresent the picture.

SM,
*sigh*
The public had no idea about what he did in his previous role. He wasn't blowing his own trumpet when he took the actions. At best the media raised awareness but this guy took the ball and ran with it. The question is whether the Vatican spokespeople gave the information we are now discovering about the Pope's demonstrated devotion to eliminating child abuse but were censored or whether the Vatican hires useless PR people.

The Pope can't reverse what doesn't exist. The bloody BBC and Doylie have a lot to answer for. Now that is out there nothing will kill the rumour - not even Doylie's subsequent 'clarification'.
Posted by mjpb, Tuesday, 13 April 2010 10:40:51 AM
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Foxy,

Definitely. Do you get the feeling that noone is reading all your posts or that many in here are being disingenous because they don't like the Catholic Church? The expression talking to a brick wall comes to mind. The facts are on the table. In amongst the mud (dramatic negative inferences based on little evidence) we have a proven record of action of a man who has been a prime mover in trying to "sweep the filth" from the Church. However he is being constantly barraged by mass media and depicted as a friend of paedophile priests to the point that some in the public are talking about a need for his criminal prosecution (driven by Hitchens and Dawkins). I've said it before: it is almost like many journalists are paedophiles trying to get him removed so that the 'good 'ol days' can return.

I value your research efforts and integrity on this issue.
Posted by mjpb, Tuesday, 13 April 2010 11:40:13 AM
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Thanks for the links George.

Wow! Compare the report CJ linked to with the background of the letter:

"Vatican officials pointed out that Cardinal Ratzinger was responding to the priest's own request for dispensation from the vow of celibacy, and at the time had no authority to impose dismissal from the priesthood as a penalty for sex abuse."

So the letter being quoted didn't even relate to abuse. That is a great trick to get damning quotes. The media are stooping pretty low.
Posted by mjpb, Tuesday, 13 April 2010 11:49:10 AM
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Dear mjpb,

All that can be done in emotive issues such
as this one is to keep on presenting
more balanced views on the topic so that
hopefully it would make people think about
what's being circulated by the media.

I'm extremely grateful for your knowledge on the
topic which is far superior to mine, and for your
expressing it on this Forum. The same goes for
George, and other voices of reason.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 13 April 2010 12:44:15 PM
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Perhaps these "voices of reason" should indicate where the church has exposed any of their clergy in abuse, where the media or police have not done so already.

Without any proactive steps, all we are getting from the Vatican is words.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 13 April 2010 1:55:43 PM
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