During a visit to Washington Former PM John Howard signed billions of dollars in contracts with Lockheed Martin to purchase Strike Fighters.This was apparently against the wishes of the boffins in Australia's Defences Forces at the time whom were assessing the Fighters against the competing aircraft from France and Russia.

I understand that the defence people ran simulations in which the LM Strike Fighters were sent on a mission against their Russian counterparts and none returned, and the aircraft carrier? that they had to refuel upon, was also destroyed.

Among reasons were, that the Russian aircraft could travel twice the distance on the same amount of fuel. They also had other strategic advantages such as stealth capability.

Australia's air superiority in our region has been taken for granted by Australians during the era of the French F-111 , and the LM Strike Fighters we have coming are now the subject of complaint in the U.S Congress about their rising cost without results.

Should this purchase prove a mistake?, does that mean that Australia's regional air superiority is no longer a given, as a result of this deal?. And, what can the Australian Govt do now, if the SF continues to remain in limbo and continues to escalate in cost?.

Who built the F111 mate?

Considering that the purchase of fighter aircraft is a 30-40 year decision, there is a requirement that there is long term spares and upgrade support.

Given the state of Russia 10 years ago this was far from guaranteed.

The military treaty with the US gives Australia access to the latest avionics which is almost more important than the aircraft. This is certainly not available from Russia, and is available to a lesser extent from France.

Get Real SM.

One of my first jobs was writing software for FA18s. Why? Because the RAAF couldn't get the US to make any of the mods they wanted. We're just too small to be bothered with. It doesn't matter who we buy our stuff from when you're only buying 10 of them.

Anyway, I think you all should be more worried about the submarines we're supposed to be building in Adelaide at 3 times the cost of outsourcing with no crew for them anyway.

How many F 111's did the French build?
Have you been on the sauce again? Are you looking at Mirage's?

I'm still waiting to find out which French Co built the F111.

Perhaps we should have bought a heap of the virtually new, unused F111s the US have out in the desert. I know it might be a bit like having a vintage air force, but that may not be too bad with F111s.

Houellebecq, you can't beat politics, when it comes to defence, but it sounds like you all ready know that. It was another labor government that saddled us with a fleet of subs designed by a country that doesn't even have a navy.

Now our blokes have at last made them fit for use, except for the machinery of course, but poiltics has them based in Perth. There is no way you could even man the patrol boat fleet, if it was based in Perth.

Can you imagine what a young sailor's wife, with young kids says, when he wants to move her to Perth. When he's likely to be sent off for months, she won't move more than 50Km from mum. [Well he would be sent off, if the subs ever worked].

Lovely place for a visit, Perth, but who would want to live there. Even with the pay rate they offer submariners, it's too expensive, & too damn far away. Add to that the fact that not everyone wants to spend their life under water, & you get a very small pool of crew to chose from. This way, at least, we only wear out the investment, one sub at a time.

Ruddy may have found yet another way to throw money away, but then, South Australian unions are screaming for another bone, so why not one shaped liks 6 subs?

Labor politics. We even send ships to New Castle for refit, when the dockyard doesn't have a single welder qualified to stick the things back together, & the ships crew cost the earth, having to stay in pubs for months.

Buy some lousy aircraft, why not? After all, it's hard to change the habits of a lifetime.

Apologies to Hasbeen /others for being mistaken about the F-111 being French. Please consider it the momentary recollections of an older person, but I'm not mistaken in referring to the current U.S Congress and it's concern over Strike Fighters. I'm not mistaken about Australia's past regional air superiority being considered a given by us, and I don't think it unreasonable to ask the question "why did we proceed with this purchase if military advice was to the contrary"?.

Your point SM was relevant to my post, but what if 30-40 yrs is as not relevant as before. What if other nations are taking delivery of aircraft now while yours are still on the drawing board so to speak. This may make 10 -15 yrs time frames more relevant.

And surely any Australian Govt couldn't accept aircraft from any country without an accompanying service and upgrades contracts. If we couldn't get these, then I guess we were stuck with SF's and that explains it.

The other part of my question was, what can we do now if the SF situation turns for the worse. And it sounds from the posts of others, that our submarines are also a problem.

Should I start worrying about our defence capability now? this is my underlying question

We do not spend our defence $ well but no one seems to care.We are the 13 th biggest spender on defence on the planet.Per head of pop we'd have to rival the USA.Where does it all go?

it was a way to keep the dollar low...howhard often orded currency swaps...and big orders to spend au dollars to keep a low parity..so those selling our minerals in us reap nice returns..on the gifts govt gave them for pennies the ton...and of course to buy a friend in the bush

much is gestures...like the earth hour..bull...you turning off yourt power for one hour...lol..when it takes over half an hour to shut down even one generator...those of us keeping our lights on just get more amps pumped into the power we do use...and the hotwater heaters get a boost as the power gets moved to off peak

everything is so much gestures..party policy..mates rates..bang/bang..got his nickname via shooting/murder of timorians and nosey/reporters ...we got gst because the elites didnt want to pay death duties...

the claim of smoking causing lung cancer is susatained by hiding asbestos deaths..besides any cancer goes to the smoking stats..but just pay income tax on ya wages ya muggins..drink the two party coolaid..while the elect serve the elite to their next cash cow...a forrestry land developer..getting 33,000 hectares for the value of trees on it..or 70 billion of coal seam gas..for pennies the ton..and a generouse party contribution...

its time we turned on some lights..not get pats on our backs for turing them off..the federation meant states surrenderd their ability to legislate new gifts and bad laws..but no one will tell you that

thinker 2, I think you are a bit mixed up about a few things. All combat aircraft “systems” are composites of airframe, logistics, avionics, system software, multi-nation defense integration, weapons versatility and many more. Any purchase decisions are inevitably future projections, horrendously complex any cannot be over simplified.

The F111 for example is a 40 year old design, a truly astonishingly capable airframe and equally capable “G” version avionics. To emphasize this point, the Northrop F117, the now well recognized “latest” (F22N excepted) stealth aircraft, first went into service in 1967.

The simulation to which you refer? Russian << strategic advantages such as stealth capability >>, Like which ? Long range Russian “strike fighters”? Nonsense. Carrier dependent refueling? Really?

Finally, the F111 has absolutely nothing to do with “air superiority”, it’s a bomber for goodness sake!

If you just want to take a swipe at a former PM that’s your business, but you need to pick on a topic you actually understand and stop suggesting that the ADF has ever considered buying Russian Military technology of any description.

I love military aircraft (fullstop). Loving these SUPER MEGA AWSM HORNETS flying over my joint at the moment ... and their little training fighters. Makes for GREAT photo ops. Will miss the F-111's though. Love watching them cruise by.

I don't care what flies past, I'll love it.

JUST LOWER THE RESTRICTIONS ON THE SUPER MEGA AWSM HORNETS PLEASE!!. My zoom isn't THAT good.

Houellebecq,

Have you tried getting microsoft to rewrite some of their base code?

I suspect that if you approached any aircraft manufacturer, given the safety testing etc required, none of them would be prepared to work on a system they considered optimised.

The point is that you stick with the standard proven software or modify non critical components to do the little extras you want. This applies to anyone, so I fail to see the relevance of your post.

The world's defence spending is surely one the craziest of human behaviour patterns.
At present NATO is about to spend US$20 billion on a missile defence shield around Europe because they 'believe' Iran may attack Europe!
How stupid can you be? Iran may have some inflammatory habits of late but they are still sane enough to avoid that possibility.
Israel is more likely to attack any country when "push comes to shove".
John Howard like Tony Blair was a dupe of Bush's administration.
The USA always squeezes a business deal out of anyone silly enough to step onto their soil.
Of course, being on the spot on 9/11 shook Mr Howard seriously as it would anyone.
Now we all know that our 'Statesmen' are just mere mortals.