Isnt it interesting how all these "leaders" become all wet and full of concern once they retire. Pity they couldnt exercise their humanity while they still had the power to make a difference.

Dear Cornflower,

The Frasers sold their 3603ha Western District Property -
Nareen in 1998.

They now live on the Mornington Peninsula in Victoria.

It might be actually worth a read of Malcolm Fraser's
memoirs - because the man has a wide and varied
history of philanthropy - that he preferred to remain
private. The same goes for his wife - who to this day
is a volunteer with the Red Cross and The Stroke
Foundation.

Anyway, the following website might be of some interest:

http://www.racismnoway.com.au/classroom/factsheets/46.html

Foxy you, as usual are spot on.
It is clear the wounds for some are very much still there.
On both sides
Just as clear bitterness blinds some.
His words about the Asian war yesterday gave me insight into his reasons for those acts in truth at that early time most thought that way.
I still love our leader from those days,even when he tells us just how good he was.
Still feel the unfairness of press and media playing un fair.
But I have the opportunity to look back with honesty.
We put the wrong people in the wrong jobs, some thought we had 23 years in power , they alone let their party down.
Bob governed much better, it is shallow and baseless to ignore the post Parliament achievements of Fraser.
History reminds me today of just how lies fear and manufactured press storys can help one side of politics harm another.
In truth that day in November , a historic day for bad deeds done, was coming without the need for such action.
The ALP made its own date with destiny and grew into todays good government.
Abbott is not unlike some I blame for that day, on my side of the house, pulling his party down, so it too can be rebuilt, he will not be judged well for it .

Bob Menzies was even worse.
Remember that he was the PRIME Minister when he decided that people should be conscripted to invade Vietnam, with a selection process by a LOTTERY.

This was unlike ANYTHING before or since- in the World Wars conscription was put to referendum- and rejected- with the result accepted.

John Howard, for all his faults, at least NEVER introduced it.

It's actually quite bizarre that the 'idols' of Australian liberalism were by far the most fascist politicians we've had since the convict days.

Dear King Hazza,

Sociology has a central lesson, it is that
societies, together with all the social
institutions and social behaviour they contain,
are continuously created and re-created by the
acts of coutless individuals whether these
individuals realize their role in the grand sweep
of history or not.

You brought up the Vietnam War.

If a modern society goes to war, it isn't
just because the leaders have opted for war,
but because the people have implicitly or
explicitly done so also - or at least,
they have not opted for peace.

The Vietnam war came to an end largely
as a result of the antiwar movement, a
social movement that consisted disproportionately
of young people, including many college students.
When the antiwar movement first challenged the war,
it received little support from politicians or
the press, and its goals seemed almost hopeless.
But the tide of public opinion gradually began to
shift.

In the USA, in the 1968 presidential primaries, an antiwar
candidate backed by student volunteers did unexpectedly
well and President Johnson decided not to run for re-election.
From that point on, political debate on the war focused
not on how to stay in it, but on how to get out of it.
Through collective action - ordinary people with few
resources other than their own determination had changed a
national censensus for war to a national consensus for peace.

A fundamental insight of sociology is that once people no
longer take their world for granted, but instead understand
the social authorship of their lives and futures, they can
become an irresistible force in history.

This was also done in the last Federal election when the voters
got rid of the Howard government (including in his own Electorate),
in a landslide.

Foxy I don't think the context was that simple as far as war goes;
As Australians get zero consultation rights when their politicians want to invade another country or join a foreign conflict there is no way to be sure anyone actually initially supported either of the wars (Vietnam or Iraq).

As it stood with the Iraq war, the voters were expected to vote the entire Liberal Party out of office (via their local candidate) and help put a different party in, on the promise that they would pull out- and in doing so risk whatever other policies they had slung along.

As for the biography on that website- I'm not impressed- a tremendous amount of fluff about his life before and after politics, and a gigantic omission of all of his nastier actions during his career.

In short, I'm simply struggling to see what is so 'wonderful' about this man- at all.