Belly:"Do you understand telecoms usually works at floor level not in the roof?"

Oh dear....

Belly, I installed telephony and bradband cabling for 10 years. Would you like to have a technical discussion about it?

Your beloved CFMEU dropped the ball badly, probably for petty political reasons. What is it going to do about it?

Shadow minister, I've followed this fairly closely and I can't recall the ETU/CEPU being mentioned. The noisiest concerns were raised by the NECA, which is the employer body. The ETU here in Qld has been too busy making sure Bligh doesn't get re-elected.

Did garret mean to cause harm no.
i went to one of the biggest manufactures of insulation in the country to get mine, and was told i would have to do it myself, because i had already used up my rebates on solar power and solar hot water.
So i bought the necessary ingredience and done it myself.
I am glad i did now with this bull--t going on.
My batts are 10 inches thick, with no aluminium. [and i don't have down lights ]
If you are going to have down lights make sure they are 12 volt controlled from the power meter. [ no short cuts ]
It's dodgy installers that have caused the problem. not garrets ruling.
People that have no idea of what goes on inside a ceiling.
After lunch the temp inside my ceiling measures around 60 celcius, Thats with a thermostat controlled fan cutting in at 35 celcius That should say something.

Rechtub? you have found a friend but not me.
IDIOTIC fellow your comments overlooked it was a road construction site 4 inches of greasy mud, steep batters ,footpath on top inch's away, cars parked 100,s of meters away.
Law NOT UNIONS COMPEL BOSSES to provide those things.

Yes belly sounds similar to the diggers on the 'kakoda trail'. Difference is, they weren't being shot at!

Ever heard of an umbrella, or a rain coat!

Poor buggers would be turning in their graves if they could see how 'limp wristed' our men have become.

Little wonder we are filling up with immigrants. They are happy to have a roof over their heads and a job.

As for Foxy, not wanting step on any labor party dicks, the fact remains, the minister was warned and ignored the warning and now four are dead!

Heads must roll, just as they would if it was a private company in charge.

Belly, why was the union movement not involved to prevent these terrible, avoidable deaths?

Antiseptic you have not even followed this thread!
Once more just for you.
I am not a fan of the CFMEU, go to their web page.
Read the introduction MILITANT UNIONISM.
No you just must not lay that on me.
How did they get involved, it is not their coverage.
Surely it is electrical trades work.
rechtub I have been forced to admit trying to talk to you is like riding a mountain bike without wheels.
Lot of peddling not going any place.
Facts, telecoms /optus do train well, big firms mostly do.
The people doing this work are small, money not safety drives them.
Very rare if at all to find a union member working for them.
Now think on this, some say it is Garrett's fault because he did not act on Union concerns others say it was unions fault because they did not stop the whole thing.
Are we talking about the heat stroke death? poor wiring, maybe home done wiring, do you antiseptic understand installation in new homes has not been a problem?
Last night I found a shift working crew, the gang had a trained OHXS man in place.
His boss runs 8 such teams, for reasons I will never understand HE REMOVED all elected to that position, then put every team leader into that roll.
No election, no compliance with the act.
Do I blame him the boss? the ex rep, the new one,
Well the old one was re elected last night the boss is so lucky no one died before law was restored anti every thing you flog union for being unions then flog them again for not being unions.
How can I judge you?
You fail to see modern workplace safety is infected with poor training and regulations slothful supervision and cost cutting bosses yet call for removal of a minister?

Belly:"I am not a fan of the CFMEU"; "How did they get involved, it is not their coverage."

Actually, it is their coverage, since it is a construction activity. Each home is effectively a separate building site. I see the spirit of demarcation is still strong. Perhaps that explains a bit more about why the Union movement is so on the nose.

Did I tell you what we used to call the AWU when i was a member working at the North Gonyella coal mine development? Australia's Worst Union...

Belly:"Surely it is electrical trades work."

Well, I guess it IS electrically conductive. Best tell the Metalworkers to go join the ETU/CEPU, eh?

Belly:"Very rare if at all to find a union member working for them."

Or, to pit it another way, they're on their own as far as the Unions are concerned. So much for "Workplace safety should be our number one priority" http://www.awu.net.au/200_11_1.html...

If there's no money in it the Union's not interested.

Belly:"some say it is Garrett's fault because he did not act on Union concerns"

But it wasn't the Unions who raised concerns, it was the employer bodies, such as NECA and the Master Electricians Association. http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/garrett-knew-of-insulation-death-risk-for-months-20100213-ny4b.html

The unions, especially the CFMEU, were part of the steering committee that made the decisions that lead to the deaths.

[cont]

Belly:"Are we talking about the heat stroke death? poor wiring, maybe home done wiring, do you antiseptic understand installation in new homes has not been a problem?"

The heat stroke death was the result of drinking insufficient water. Part of the training process should be to warn people that they need to drink at least a litre of water an hour under those conditions. Did the steering committee (which included the Unions) insist on that?

I'm not sure what your point is about new vs old homes. I've worked in new homes that were basically death traps, with wiring laid on top of steel framing, which the homeowner has then laid plywood on to form a loft; no separation at all of electrical and data/telephony cabling; tiny roof spaces filled with huge amounts of pine framing leading to very restricted access. I've been stuck in a roof because of being unable to turn around and had to remove tiles to get out.

Yes, old houses sometimes have substandard wiring, but no matter how new the place, if you stick a nail through foil and into an active wire you've got a problem. How much was this emphasised in the training that the Unions were part of drawing up?

Who stands to gain by Garrett's demise?