The fact is Darwin was not the first to come up with the concept of evolution the ancient Greeks believed some species evolved from others even the Australian aboriginal’s dreamtime stories could express such evolution concepts. Darwin merely documented an arrangement of species and suggested a possible development of such.

The concept existed pre-biblical times in primitive forms, and even had theistic or spirit beings input. We might consider them fables or myths but this is how they explained the world.

Philo

I was raised a Christian within the Anglican Church. I became an atheist at age ten, when I found too much conflict with the natural world around me and literal interpretation of the bible. I probably held a belief in Jesus for a while longer, but as there is no evidence that he even existed - the bible being a collection of anecdotes by various authors with various agendas, I took the best of the teachings into account as I do with other philosophies and religious views such as Buddhism.

That you do not understand the immense contribution to science and understanding the natural world that knowledge of evolution makes is your loss. It is a part of many disciplines from medicine to agriculture. Yes, I know you are a farmer - shame you were reading the bible instead of Genetics 101.

I see no further reason in engaging with you, this thread was started by Graham Young positing that Christianity has made a significant contribution towards science, I and others disagree for reasons that have been clearly outlined in previous posts.

Live long and prosper!

Severin,
Obviously at age 10 you could make mature and intelligent decisions to determine the values and direction of life?

In my church there are professors of horticulture who teach at WS University, professor in electronics UT NSW who assisted in the development of equipment for the NASA space programme, and built the first computer for the Australian Government. Both of these guys became Christians in their 30's and are avid creationists.

But there is more to Christianity than a belief system.

Dear Philo,

Professors of horticulture who are avid creationists? Oh, well, you can lead a horticulture, but you can't make her think.

avid David

Dan,

<<You [Grim] say that I seem like a man who has invested all his faith in one idea. You don’t think it is possible to turn those tables around just for a moment and ponder, could the same be said of Darwin, or some of his followers?>>

Nope.

Evolution - as we have both established - is backed by mountains of evidence. In fact, there is not yet one thing in nature that contradicts it.

No faith required.

Of course, if you can think of something, I’d be most grateful if you’d enlighten me.

On another note, could I take your lack of response to my previous request to back your big claims as an admission that what you said wasn’t true?

Philo,

<<In my church there are professors of horticulture who teach at WS University, professor in electronics UT NSW who assisted in the development of equipment for the NASA space programme, and built the first computer for the Australian Government. Both of these guys became Christians in their 30's and are avid creationists.>>

So what is your point then?

I could deny the laws of physics and still drive a car.

Channeling Dorothy Parker eh, david f?

>>Professors of horticulture who are avid creationists? Oh, well, you can lead a horticulture, but you can't make her think.<<

I have to admit, that was the first phrase that ran through my mind when I saw Philo's claim.

I'm not sure quite how relevant horticulture is to creationism, though.

Mind you, Philo has me intrigued.

>>In my church there [is a]...professor in electronics UT NSW who ... built the first computer for the Australian Government<<

I presume we're talking about CSIRAC, Philo?

Couldn't be Trevor Pearcey, he died a couple of years back

Do you mean Maston Beard? If so, that is really fascinating, as he went on to work with radio telescopes. In fact he managed the Siding Spring Observatory for a while, if I recall correctly.

If he became a Creationist, now that would be very interesting, after gazing into the depths of the universe for all those years.

He's obviously still hale and hearty, if he's at your church. Thought he'd retired, though, must be into his nineties by now.

Tell us more, please.

But this was a little harsh, don't you think?

>>Obviously at age 10 you could make mature and intelligent decisions to determine the values and direction of life?<<

By that age, most kids have worked out that there is no Santa, no Easter Bunny and no Tooth Fairy. Some of them pretend for a while longer, to humour their parents. In much the same frame of mind, I suspect, that I was in when I accompanied my mother to church every other Sunday, for a while.

Remember, this is about about religion, not about determining "the values and direction in life."

The latter is a process. One that starts well before age ten and continues for some time after. Ceasing to believe in Santa, Jesus etc. tends however to be an event, not a process.

>>But there is more to Christianity than a belief system.<<

More, as in...?

What?