For many years I have hoped that Australians would support the VFT proposal for many reasons. Firstly, it is my view that many older people who have not had the opportunity to travel around Australia [ie the NT, WA, SA] like myself and my late grandparents, would have been able to do so. Secondly, I believe that the VFT may reduce road fatalities during Christmas and holiday periods. Thirdly, the VFT would undoubtedly boost our tourism ie students and travellers preferring to pay for a more inexpensive trip that links up capital cities and towns whilst sightseeing and travelling. Lastly, the VFT, via tourists and fellow Australian travellers, could be paid off relatively quickly. Your views?
We are unique

Sadly, the only dimension that could allow the VFT concept to work, will never be allowed to occur in this country.

>>...students and travellers preferring to pay for a more inexpensive trip that links up capital cities and towns whilst sightseeing and travelling.<<

We seem to have no mechanism for pricing-to-market our infrastructure projects, i.e. charging what the consumer is prepared to pay, and building a business from that premise.

Here in Sydney, we have seen toll roads and tunnels built and priced not for the road-user, but for the shareholder. As a result, they have all been a disaster for all concerned - road user, consortium and government alike.

I also recall getting enthusiastic about a ferry service from Sydney to Launceston, which would take your car for free. Hey, at last, an opportunity for the family to explore Tasmania without the hassle.

In the end, the cost of taking a family of three - and the "free car" - on the ferry was more expensive than taking a taxi to the airport, flying to Launceston, and hiring a car at the other end.

Not to mention, quicker.

The ferry service was discontinued after a short while. For lack of demand. What a surprise.

The other problem is that we have no effective mechanism for "big projects" such as this. Forget the transport part, heck, we can't even cobble together a half-decent ticketing system. Imagine the scope of the financial disaster if we actually had to build something.

A VFT might well have some tourism effect in the south east corner but between the south and the north and the west and the east it is hardly an option. The remoteness of the country and its prone - ness to natural upsets like line wash aways (occurred up near Katherine not long ago) would make a comprehensive VFT impossibly expensive.

However, if someone with half a brain in Canberra did commit to VFT it would also bring our freight transport system into proper focus as we move towards oil depletion and higher costs.

Right now, there is a modicum of smart thinking in the interstate rail freight world with one company running several two deck containerized services between WA and the south east every week. Highest tonnage hauled per train, self contained complete with fuel supply and sleeping quarters for drivers. It's still slow but it's the right (and profitable) thinking we need. Tourism will benefit, but it should not be the main driving force.

And don't forget that after so many years of doing nothing the Alice Springs Darwin rail link was built quick smart. By whom and why? It was not tourism I think.

Pericles: "We seem to have no mechanism for pricing-to-market our infrastructure projects, i.e. charging what the consumer is prepared to pay, and building a business from that premise."

An astute observation. I hadn't looked at it that way before, yet it is an excellent way of describing what happened.

Another way of looking at is some bankers noticed there was a lot of cheap money floating about, then concocted a way of re-selling that cheap money to governments at a hansom profit. The vehicle happened to be infrastructure projects. They did a wonderful sell job, stitching the government and we citizens up good and proper, only to be wiped out when their selling of so much of this money drove the price (ie interest rate) of it up so high it became unsustainable.

Pericles: "they have all been a disaster for all concerned - road user, consortium and government alike."

And me being my ever optimistic self, believes therein lies the solution. Everybody knows it was a disaster. The only people defending it now are the original politicians who were sold the bum steer by the banks. Surely nobody who was here at the time is going to repeat it. What's more, surely we will learn from this, and come up with a way of financing these public projects is a workable fashion?

we are unique,

The VFT competes with airlines. Right now, in an era of all time low air fares it doesn't have a hope. Until the economics change that is the way it will stay. Sadly, or fortunately depending on your point of view, the end of petroleum will cause that change. Depending on who you believe that will be within a few years, or a few decades. Either way, in the scheme of things it isn't that long.

We do not have the time to build a network of VFTs.
We barely have time enough to straighten out the existing lines to
enable faster timetables.
This needs to be done first as the original routes were developed using
horses and scoops as earth moving machinery.
Then we need to electrify the lines.
We need to reopen many closed branch lines.
Enlarging the loading gauge between Parkes and the Sydney yard to
enable the double decked containers from interstate to enter Sydney
and so go onto Newcastle is another essential work.
This what we will need for the rest of the century if we are not to
collapse into a country of small towns and villages isolated from each other.
There is more than enough to pay for and worry about than VFTs.
VFTs need a very much higher grade of permway and they have to be
almost line of sight. We simply will never be able to afford that
even on the busiest Sydney Melbourne route.
Europe is largely flat especially France, thats why they can do it.
A higher population and a smaller country is also a factor.

Dear We Are Unique,

I remember getting excited over the proposed
Fast Train Route - Melbourne to Sydney through
Gippsland and the Eastern Region - a few decades
ago. It didn't eventuate - for every negative
reason possible, instead of planning a route
drilling tunnels, building bridges, and making
a start of it. It may not be operable in the 21st
Century - but it could be functioning in the 22nd
Century.

Unfortunately, we in this country don't think far
enough ahead.

The Hume Highway - Melbourne to Sydney - is being
upgraded for decades. Whereas similar constructions
in California take a few years. We seem to be slow
in achievement. So we shouldn't be surprised when
anything even remotely creative is rejected or put
into the "too hard basket."

Foxy, aren't you forgetting the questions at the end of my earlier post about the Alice Springs Darwin rail line? Didn't we argue for decades about that and suddenly --- around the time or just after of the East Timor emergency it got built.

I agree wholeheartedly with you Foxy; we have the finest grade blue metal and materials, technology/engineers, labour, and companies who were keen to carry out the EIS and DA. The Govt and Economists I recall, were opposed to it.

Wonderful feedback RStuart and gave that line a thought too [ie Airlines/established modes of transport/competition].

I agree with all you stated Pericles: existing rail problems and terrain related issues; however most of these issues could be dealt with and overcome during the planning process.

I wish to add that any proposed VFT [if later given the green light] may well assist with the NSW State Rail and other State rail authorities, being forced to commit to a complete overhaul of their system and lines; therefore view that a proposed VFT would benefit the users and commuters of States Rail.

I envisage 50/50 ownership would be successful. 50% govt/50% private. Could an economist give a rough estimate as to the up and running costs without the trains?

I think for Sydney, the importance for tourism is to expand the capacity of the number of tourists that we can fly into the country. This is imperative for tourism in SE Australia, as Sydney is usually to first landing destination, if not the preferred landing destination. The only way to do this is having a second international airport in Sydney. I think there should be 2 new international airports in Sydney. The only barrier is Sydney being blocked in the basin. If a VFT can shuttle people to Goulburn south of Sydney, and to Williamtown/Newcastle in the north, we have fast passage in and out of the Sydney basin for more airports in these areas, and to the other cities and regional areas of NSW and Australia in general. Such an expansion will also benefit Newcastle, the Southern Tablelands in their tourism, and rail journeys Melbourne/Sydney/Canberra/Brisbane could be faster, changing trains at Goulbourn and Williamtown/Newcastle, where new airports can be built.

In a country of 22 million we often forget costs when wishing for such as this.
We just can not yet afford it.
We ask for American style roads, want them now, but fail to take costs on board.
Our rail systems run at a loss, we sell them contract out and have trouble getting people to use them.
One day we will get inter city fast trains.
It may be another hundred years, but it will largely be at the cost of air services.
To make fast trains pay freight would need to use the same lines.
Behind ever good idea costs haunts us.

Is everyone on here living in la la land ?
Extra airports ? Ye gods don't you realise that by the time they are
built they will no longer be needed !
The latest canary in the mine to die was Japan Airlines.
BA, judging by its losses won't be far behind.

We are going to be using electrified rail transport and coastal ships.
No more divided interstate roads, no more long distance road transport.
Even bitumen for road repairs will be expensive if available at all.
The alternative is isolated local only economies.

We do not have the time or money to waste on VFTs.
We need to restructure the existing rail system for better speeds,
electrification, and the reopening of branch lines that were closed
years ago in the era of cheap oil.
Otherwise our country towns will die.

IMO we as a species are far too obsessed with business profit and not strategic planning.

Do we consider business profit with our emergency services?
To me the VFT should be regarded as strategic and do it. Price it to get patronage. It should be businesses that fit the national strategy not the other way around.

In the light of CC sooner or later we'll need to address the issue of too many drinkers at the well of INTRA air transport.
The same goes for some industries.
Business doesn't give a stuff about our strategic issues.

Before this posting is closed; many kindest thanks to all of you who set aside time to contribute. I learned a great deal and love reading and learning/growing from your other posts on diverse issues. As Foxy states it is assisting in building a greater Nation.