It appears that at last somebody has the right idea regarding the direction in which we are going as a nation.

Senator Barnaby Joyce has suggested a cessation of the payment of Foreign Aid (to most probably certain countries who have for years used the money for all the wrong reasons).

If we are to believe that we are suffering long term climate change, and not simply a "natural" periodic climatic change, which has happened many times before in the history of this planet ( according to the scientists )and if we have to placate the masses of "true believers" by implementing some sort of a "Dr Feelgood" treatment, the imposition of another type of GST ( ETS Tax )is certainly NOT the answer to the problem.

If money has to be found and spent to placate the obssessed, the idea of utilizing "tainted" Foreign Aid money is a very sensible one and one that may at the same time jerk the slack out of all those overseas recipients who have been squandering and abusing the privilage of monetary aid, for so many generations!

Our nation cannot afford another GST at this time when the financial future for a lot of our citizens is looking a trifle insecure.

Talk of implementing an ETS (Tax)and then compensating the people for the cost involved is exactly that,...TALK. The whole principle is absolutely ludicrous and people should be aware that ANY new Tax or Charge for the ETS will be a charge against every individual forever!

It certainly appears that to the majority of Australians ( not that there are many true Australians left )the matter of most import today is whether the Leader of the Opposition, Tony Abbott will continue to wear his "Budgie Smugglers".....oh my! aren`t we getting so very petty!

Priorities, Priorities, Priorities!

Groan, I'm suffering from reading such unmitigated ill thought out drivel,

More shallow denialist selfishness bollocks using the cover of National interests. Gore Vidal was right (patriotism) is the first refuge (of a scoundrel)
Talk about why this country is potentially in trouble! Oppositional spin for opposition sake !

Sure be more certain that our aid goes to stop suffering

>"It has all happened before according to scientists"< *Wrong* there has never been 6.something Billion people before. With possibly Billions of lives at stake.

The primary fresh water source of the 4 main rivers for Southern China, India and Bangladesh feeder Glaciers are retreating. what are these 300 + million going to do? The only point in question is that 25 years time frame for all glaciers. There are no replacement glacier sources on the western side of the Tibetian Plateau.
BTW the desertification of areas means a Gobi desert effect(the driest desert in the world)
I'm sure the displaced will be comforted to know its all natural,

Crackup, perhaps you need to understand the working theory better or consider the consequences of those "natural" events.

Its called perspective.

Hang on my well respected mate examinator.
Our nice old fella crackup/cuphandle often says things like this.
And is often wrong, not this time!
Thank you Barnaby Joyce! truly, you by showing how much out of touch you are, contribute to the return of my mate Kevin to the lodge.
Now I truly see a very real attempt to look like old Joe in Barnaby, he sure sounded like him in some speeches he made lost his thoughts and control of his words.
Crack up we all, me included put our selves out there, able to be rebutted when we say things here.
This is a thread that exposes you to being said to be out of touch.
Our overseas aid may well too often find its way into the wrong hands, that is shameful.
But to cut it is too.
Abbott, a man who habitually walks around with one foot in his mouth has retracted Barnaby's wandering into a minefield, he must do so often.
Why is Abbott's successor in waiting Hockey cringing? he knows winning support of out back red necks is not going to do it, the election needs thoughtful consideration not blind screaming foolishness.
My regards Barnaby just a year ago I saw some good in you, wrongly thinking it was to benefit your party.
It is in fact the ALP who grows on your emissions, thanks.

Barnaby Joyce is a "oncer."

This is a name given to a member who's
been elected contrary to expectation.
This usually happens as the result of
a landslide election. Some oncers are
shocked to find themselves converted
into honorable members having agreed to
stand for the seat on the understanding
that there was no prospect of election
but that they would be doing the party
a favour.

Others, however, become so inflamed with
political ambition that they devote all
their time in Parliament to getting
publicity, (Joyce, Tuckey, et al), often
with amusing results to the voters but
embarrassment to party leaders.

I like Barnaby Joyce and think he is a man on integrity.

Why are we borrowing from China to give to poorer countries who are kept in debt slavery by the Global Banksters? The banksters should be negating the interest payments.It is nothing but a scam just like Jokenhagen.

Dear Arjay,

I can understand your liking a man
who makes so many people laugh!

And as for "jokenhagen?"

That was begat by the charismatic
Fib-err-alls.

You don't want to believe people who
are going round in ever decreasing
concentric circles.

I like Barnaby Joyce too, but I think he's a political idiot.

As I so often do, I agree with Belly here. Joyce - and to a lesser extent Abbott - are the best things going for Rudd as we approach the inevitable election.

In addition to cutting foreign aid, I expect to hear alot more about border protection in the coming months. And lots more confused numbers from both sides.

I really hope that Barnyard's at the forefront of the Opposition campaign :)

Australians governments must cease trying to impress everybody with international political correctness. In the best interests of future generations, Australia should withdraw from most United Nations agreements and stop pretending we are a wealthy nation. Look after our own backyard and make home where the heart is.

Arjay your post and support adds much weight to Foxys views about Barnaby, thanks.
Are you very young arjay?
Or middle aged trying to bring the 60,s back.
Having been an activist every day of my life I know at some level some conspiracy's take place.
It is clear even here in our courts favoritism is given on the basis of class or financial back ground.
But you are truly lost in your theory's about theory's mud heap.
Barnaby, like others in his party, understands shouting, making out there claims, kicking the fear tin, works for some.
Remember, in fact never forget Joe, his ranting and raving, his assault on human rights, his trial, that set up that let him get away with it.
While people love this rubbish talk it wins not one vote that is not already commited to the miners interests party, once known as country party, now trying to sell its self as a national party.
Barnaby's circus act, his histrionics, are aimed at slowing the death of his party.
See the Queensland model, problems in fighting and all, is the only future for both party's.
The third conservative arm in this country our national paper, is about to become the second, until an impending Liberal split that is fast approaching as the extremists drive true Liberals to form a new party.
In four years look for Barnaby Joyce and Tony Abbott.
You will not find them in our national capital unless working for other interests Joyce the mining lobby Abbott?
Right to life?

Dear Belly,
Here in Queensland at the moment the miners interest party is the Labour party, jobs for the boys to get the taxes to put pork in the barrel as the Nats destroyed the pork producers. Anna wants to strip some of Australia's prime agricultural land to make holes so Kevies mates the Chinese can supply our food instead of us poluting our hands growing our own.

Barnaby Joyce could not work under Turnbull, but he can work with Abbot to forge Australia into One Nation. It is ironic that a red headed woman from Queensland, pursued mercilessly by Tony Abbot, coined a phrase that should be adopted by Barnaby and Tony as their election slogan, One Nation, under Almighty God.

KR promised to deliver the Constitution to 200,000 Christians who came out on a balmy Thursday evening in 2007, when he and John Howard went head too head in a televised debate run by the Australian Christian Lobby. Kevin creamed John, so well that John lost his own seat. Kevin has been a disappointment. Turnbull was the useless environment minister under Howard, who ended up presiding over the illegal and unauthorized acquisition of millions of tons of carbon sequestered in farmers trees, that provoked the Spencer Rally and Hunger strike. Barnaby was there.

As the One Nation Party has withered, so Tony Abbott is free to advocate for a United Nation, and put a stop to the United States of Australia and Rudd’s much loved COAG. A Federal Leader cannot govern unless he takes advantage of the Constitution, and takes control of the forces to execute and maintain the laws of the Commonwealth. To do this he must instruct the Governor General to appoint as her deputies, under the Constitution every Judge and Magistrate in Australia, and even if the Commonwealth must pay them, ensure they know and understand the Constitution.

The Council of Australian Governments is a farce. To effectively govern One Nation, the Commonwealth must act decisively and ensure every court remains a court, and stop the Lawyers Courts erected by the States from abusing every Australian’s civil rights. Nicola Roxon, a lawyer described Australian Courts as Casino’s. ( Her Maiden speech, oops that is not politically correct, First speech).

These illegal gambling dens, can become Palaces of Justice, when Barnaby and Tony read S 79 Constitution and put judges into federal courts, and take away the Judges. Turnbull had such a vested interest in keeping these casino’s open, he was unfit to lead

Is Barnaby a Christian? I think it is a probability because by their fruits shall you know a Christian. He certainly acts like one, even if he does not wear it on his sleeve like Tony Abbot does. We are currently under a curse in Australia, described in the first line of the Book of Ruth. Now it came to pass when judges ruled that there was famine in the land.

One of Jesus Ancestors, who much loved Almighty God was forced to flee to the land of Moab, the descendants of the incestuous coupling of Lot and his daughter. You should read the story. Lot fled and his wife turned to a pillar of salt. His two daughters, isolated and wanting a child got their father drunk, as the only available male, and had their way with him. Men are often weak, and like a drop or too. The people of Israel, with unjust Judges, suffered a famine. The Constitution sought to avoid that curse by printing the words court and judges as plural and un-capitalised in S 79 Ch III Constitution.

The Parliament of the Commonwealth reinforced that separation of powers by enacting S 2 to the Judiciary Act 1903. Defining Appeal: to include any application for a new trial proceeding to call in question, the proceedings decision or jurisdiction of any Court or Judge. ( Note the Capital Letters). The High Court currently is derelict in its duty because every application to it is an application for a new trial. It should take every application, ask if it was decided by judges or a Judge, and if by a Judge send it back to be done again, under S 44 Judiciary Act 1903. This is the Christian way. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and have no God other than Almighty God himself. Only Almighty God is Sovereign. Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second is His delegate, and bound by the Constitution not to discriminate on the basis of religion. Making a Judge into a local State or Federal God is illegal

foxy,
I think you're a bit harsh with 'Barny off his Banana' Queensland love their lunatics, the less sense they make the better. Well look at their history of illustrious members.
Joh:- administrative incompetence to a tee.
Bob Catter Jr he spoke and the sum total of the world's intelligence decreased accordingly
Hinz only avoided clink by dying.
Field:- obviously plenty of space one the loose kangaroos left.
McChee :- Left his wife and kids one disabled to live in poverty in order to live in luxury with his girlfriend on his un-assessable parliamentary pension. Bought an apartment but refused to transfer ownership to avoid body corp fees.
The Howard Minister for mines who had $2million in mining interest's
Labor ministers who got 'loans'
Labor minister who was a peadophile
Labour leader who was a religious and a paedophile
The high profile labor member who illegally stacked his branch
The high profile member who fiddled
The high profile labor minister who abused everyone then tried blackmail.
The current fed Lib member who turned a double digit electoral lead by being confused which parliament he was actually a member of.
Oh yes, Pauline the politically vacuous.
I haven't got to the capitalist war lords and sundry brigands.
Or the Gerrymanders (one labor one Country party).
In short Barny off his banana is shrewd enough to indulge in myopic idiocy to appeal to the disaffected Queenslanders who feel they're being left out or ignored... do you wonder why?
Overblown Ego+ Bombast+ ability to pretend 20 points loss of IQ = successful Queensland politician. (skill, integrity, policy definite disadvantage)
Do you see the pattern? Queenslanders do it their way...its often wrong, weird or illegal but it *is* definitely *their* way.

Sorry Richie ten and PV, do not believe in your fantasy God.
I could show you the foulest mouthed man I know, he will short change you every time he gets a chance.
But as he tells God he is sorry every Sunday it is ok.
Barnaby, bloke, mate, I once respected you, true, so for old times sake a tip.
Get a good chain, put it on your dog, if it leaves home the average family IQ at your place will drop ten points.

Dear Examinator,

Thanks for your take on Queensland.

You've actually made it sound a bit
like California.

Weird definitely - but also not conformist,
boring or dull!

Might now look into retiring there one day ...

Beautiful one day - perfect the next?

It is sad how many in the Labor Party don’t really understand how Christianity is the glue that used to hold society together. This Fantastic Almighty God who was called upon to bless the Commonwealth at its formation. This fantastic Almighty God who changed the government in 2007 and would have done so in 2004, if the Labor Party had been openly led by a Christian.

In 1900 the Labor Party had no illusion about what lawyers were. They were pure evil then and still are, but with thirty in the House of Representatives and a number in the Senate the Labor Party is just as much or more of a lawyer’s party, than the Liberals with 15. Workchoices with its draconian penalties for meeting, of fines of $100,000 for unionists could not have survived the first court challenge in a Christian System.

This is what was said in the Worker in 1901.

In Barton’s Ministry, of nine members there are already seven lawyers. The whole Federal show, says a writer in a southern exchange, is in the hands of these bounders the lawyers. If the Federal Parliament is composed of them in the same proportions as the so called ministry, then God help us. Every position of any importance in all the States is held by one of these rotten sharks, or by their deputies. Under no set of circumstances that can be brought forward, have they the right to represent the people in Parliament—a place where laws are made by whose distortion these humbugs live in luxury. Most of the Acts passed by the various Parliaments are framed by these artists in political fraud; more especially does this apply to the Commonwealth Constitution. If carefully read it is found to be shaped for the special benefit of the few—the lawyers, the promoters, the directors, and general managers of course all in the name of the suffering people.

While I have discovered the Constitution was a compact to unite all Australians of all denomination in a Commonwealth, the ALP has decided not to implement its provisions

Getting back to Barnaby Joyce, he was pithily described on Insiders this morning as a stump politician. Later, when directly questioned, Tony Abbott's only positive comment about him was that he would scare the bejesus out of Labor pollies in Queensland. Which might be true, but don't we first and foremost want someone who can handle the portfolio they are earmarked for? Barnaby could scare the pants off Labor as the Minister for Flying Kites; there's no need to scare the financial markets as well.

I'm all for good representives on whichever side of politics I'm looking at, but with Abbott, Joyce, Andrews and Ruddock in prominent positions on the Liberal front bench, it's got a touch of The Addams Family about it.

... So, who's playing Uncle Fester? Ah, Tuckey!

It was more than interesting watch Paul Howe's talk on sky news yesterday.
About Barnaby and other things, he spoke very well,
But had to get a word in over both the Liberal contender and a very FOX like commentator, who made no effort to hide his bias.
Paul highlighted a view I agree with Joyce is an assert to the ALP.
He is not capable of keeping both feet on the ground, one is going to spend a lot of time in his mouth.
How about his remark he and Abbott are not in a sexual relation for an idiot thing to say.
Nothing is assured in politics.
But a very good chance exists greens will vote for an ETS and if they do?
Enough conservative will cross the senate floor to pass it.
Greens would be brave to front an election knowing they assisted conservatives to stop action on climate change, while understanding enough votes WILL NEVER join them to pass their wish list.
Another week in the house, another wet boot and sock for Abbott and Barnaby every time they take it out of their mouths, lets see what Australian politics looks like this day next week.

Dear RobP,

Personally I believe that all governments
need at least two terms before they should
be judged. Especially in the present
circumstances where the global economic crisis
has undermined the time-frame to achieve
their agenda.

We gave the previous government repeated 3 year term
opportunities - until in the end - the electorate
lost patience.

Foxy do not fear I have never let you down.
This government is going to get its second term.
Most people think as you do.
I have studied the form judged the horses, some are either standing the wrong way around or have an unfortunate head.
In my life it has often been my unhappy job to tell my party it has lost an election weeks before it took place.
Not this time.
Tony Abbott/Barnaby Joyce.minister for tobacco interests and all, this election is going to be very bad for the extremist pirates running the Liberal party.
Trust me.
And let us not devalue our achievements rarely has a government done so much while the senate was in the hands of fools.
Every conservative leader post ww2 used fear lies headlines in their media outlets, well they never owned them but controlled them.
Our national news paper is unfortunately a front for them ,but we will return to Parliament I promise and just maybe three terms too.

Foxy,

I agree that Governments usually need at least 2 terms to get their agendas through to the point where they can be judged. As long as the current Government doesn't do anything too radical (a la Whitlam) they'll get re-elected for sure IMO. The current staffing of the Opposition front bench will only reinforce that outcome.

How long Labor goes after that will depend on how Rudd/Gillard/whoever can reinvent and/or recalibrate the party over the journey. It will also depend on what new talent the Liberals can bring into their midst and promote to the voters.

For years us country bumpkins couldn't see the difference between The Nationals and Liberals. Bob Katter left The Nationals because he is different. Barnaby Joyce is different. He says what he means and he means what he says.
When no one else was prepared to stand up to the gullibles and their scare about harmless CO2, Barnaby said what many of us felt.
Here in the country we have to have balance. There is no such thing as an easy source of funds when times are tough. We know what it is to budget to achieve balance.
So does Barnaby Joyce.

Not much of a tactic to play the man boys. Need more than this childish focus on the frontline foibles of others to hamper a man who says what he thinks and has half the country asking the same questions; particularly --why the rest of Canberra can't do the same when the spending to save game is over . thenextelection.blogspot.com

Hanrahan,

There's more to it than playing the man which, in my case, was only skin deep. Now, Barnaby doesn't resile from calling it as it is, why can't we do the same? The point behind the Addams Family quip is that it was a dysfunctional and extremely eccentric family. Is a future government with them at the helm what the country wants? Or needs? Not to my way of thinking.

Pauline Hanson said exactly what she thought too, but did that qualify her to get into a position to implement them? Barnaby can get the issues onto the agenda, fair enough. But can he solve them? That's the important question.

By the way . Well done phoenix94. As a country bumpkin you are eligible to add to the serious but contentful humor of the day via http://thiselection.blogspot.com . Should you wish to apply !

Powerful stuff often looks strange when it arrives . The truth and where they take us with it is, I hope, the critical issue for some thinking people . The extent to which Barnarby and Tony lean on those who know (who are still wearing some clothes) will be the key . I trust they won't be going to the same dress shop as others who clearly rely on colour , movement and good intentions . See you at the next election htttp://thiselection.blogspot.com

Fair comment, Hanrahan.

I must admit, Barnaby does have a lot of magnetism about him and his PC-crusher attitude is very attractive to many everyday voters.

I guess he has the potential to change the direction of politics in this country somewhat so that there's more openness and honesty. That would be a good thing if it could happen.

A point I'd make is that he was doing perfectly well before the reshuffle. Why put him into the job as Shadow Minister for Finance where he'll be expected to do more than just be a stump politician, when it looks like he can't? It looks like a big gamble on Abbott's part. But then again, Abbott isn't the type to die wondering either.

Barnaby Joyce is a different sort of politician.
People made fun of him over mixing trillions and billions.
He cracked that now with a Labour government everything is in Trillions.

However he said something else that no one had the brains to pick up on.

All that money the government has thrown around is borrowed.
Those that gave it to us want it back plus interest.
It is going to be very hard to pay it back and we will have to borrow
more to make the payments.
It is obvious he is worried that we have got ourselves on a tiger we
cannot get off !

Hanrahan you just have to be kidding us.
Playing the man?
ROFL.
KRUDD, remember that, politics is never a well mannered thing, it ALWAYS is about personality's and trust.
Remember a great man Kim, he got his names mixed up and the world sniggered at him.
Barnaby get his tongue in a knot and you say we are playing the man.He is shadow finance minister, yet got his trillions and millions mixed up.
He spoke of cutting foreign aid but his leader said no, he spoke about not having sex with same.
polls or no poll he is going to contribute to Rudd's win.
To Rudd's increased majority victory.
He was critical of China trade.
he is lost in a world other than the real one.

As Shaun Carney points out in
The Age, Saturday Feb. 6th 2010:

" There are three frontbench portfolios
that require absolute seriousness, policy
areas where you simply cannot coast or
make up as you go along - defence, foreign
affairs, and finance."

Barnaby Joyce's appearance at the National
Press Club confirmed some of his colleagues
worst fears. He confused his billions and
trillions, made up policy as he went along,
and generally did the opposite to what a
finance spokesman is supposed to do. That is
to appear to be on top of the information,
know what he's talking about, be sober and
serious when talking about the nation's
finances.

In an election year, when swinging voters
are considering who to trust with the
economy - Joyce simply doesn't cut it.

Appointing him to the job is as Carney
confirms - is the biggest mistake that Abbott
could have possibly made.

Barnaby has now said Australia can not pay back its debts.
This from the shadow finance minister.
And about the best economic performance in the developed country's, we have far less debt that England or America.
This strange bloke is no longer funny no longer too silly to worry about.
The interesting thing is will he be gagged or remove by Abbott and when.

Belly,
I think perhaps the eager reporters and TV as well as yourself
are confusing government income (taxes etc) with GDP.
GDP is not government money but business income mostly.

The question that I think Barnaby is raising is can the government
repay loans plus interest ?

I know that we are not in as bad a position as most other governments
but the US in particular cannot pay its debt without buying faster
printing presses. We however might have to crank up the printing
press if government income is not greater than liabilities.

Thats the crux of the matter, not GDP.

Good to see you around again Bazz maybe we can say hello later in the month.
I an not for a second over looking our financial problems.
Or just how lucky we have been that things done under Hawk, Kietting and John Howard set our economy up for a softer landing that most developed country's.
And even if all wasted big sums in tax cuts baby bonuses and a lot more,, mining exports and very big fuel tax's helped.
But lets be honest, I call on true Liberals now, do not forget this spiky rather rude bloke was just months ago at war with your team too.
He is trying to become the loud mouth of politics, he truly knows some will get on his train, say he is saying it like it is,
Rubbish more jump of at the next platform than get on.
He has responsibility for opposition financial policy's.
BUT NOT FOR LONG.
Abbott knows surely you too? he can not go into an election unless its a DD one in that roll.
Conservatives ripped holes in the ALP for talking up inflation, for destroying the economy, for not being trustworthy economy managers.
The stimulus was going to bankrupt us, nothing like being facts.
From Costello and Howard OWNING the rights to being best in finances we now see, read the polls if and election was run today an increased majority for Rudd.
Barnaby is not the man to have such a roll.
We can not ignore the truth he has zero skills in that area, in fact no form for the job, and understanding this country has moved on from the flying peanuts rambling speech's Barnaby's attempts to be some one he is not may save for a while his dieing party but not the coalition.

I think some of you are missing the main point here. Even if the accountancy was letter perfect - its not the key issue. Reliance on reports from the reactionaries is another example of the misplaced concreteness that prevents progress for many wannabes who never get beyond the school of mere description.
Ruddy's team team think they can spend their way forward cause we're paying. They can tell the accountant - income 's no worries "we're just about to get a new big tax ". Lovely columns, correct words and looks good! Happy days are here again !
While I share Carneys concern, Shaun's slick bit from the Age reminds me why I no longer subscribe to that paper . Slick but too quick .http://quickfiz.blogspot.com . The reactionaries paradise journal.
Some of you city slickers would benefit from slowing down and getting the whole picture - not a snapshot from the passing train .

Well done Barnaby , if you get a bit mad about the way Labor wastes money, I am sure you are not alone ! See ya at the next election , mate!

Dear Hanrahan,

Well at least you've read The Age and Carney's
article, that shows that you're open-minded.

However, it appears that the International
Monetary experts have a better understanding
of Australia's financial standing then some of
our own politicians. I think it's more than just
a matter of viewing the "bigger" picture. I think
it's a matter of removing the narrow lens through
which the picture is being viewed.

They need to pay better attention before they
speak in Parliament and give the country a bad
image globally.

As most international financial experts have confirmed -
Labor is not wasting money - it's not only saving jobs
and the economy from recession - but it's also trying
to provide social services, such as - hospitals, schools,
roads, health services, energy conservation, transport,
aged care, and much, much, more, that the previous government
neglected.

Foxy et al,
I think the problem is that as these bonds fall due the
face value plus interest will mean that services will have to be cut back.
If we owe 1000 + 100 interest and we decide not to cut back services
then we have to borrow $1100 to pay the capital & interest.
We have spent almost all the government income on running the show so
the extra needed is the problem.
You can see how this can easily run away with itself. This seems to be
what has happened to Greece, Spain and Ireland.

Unfortunately we are doing this in an energy depleting environment.
This means growth will be very limited this year and future years may
or even are likely to be a contraction economy.
Normally growth is used to pay interest, but the money has largely
been spent on non-income producing projects, so they are overheads
that will not produce increased government income let alone cover
interest.

I don't know if that is what Barnaby was worrying about as politicians
have a ban on considering energy depletion.
However they secretly may acknowledge it as it seems does the UK
government.

>A recurring theme of the morning's speakers was the need to move
>"from recognition to action". This was echoed by a representative of
>the UK Department for Energy and Climate Change (DECC)

http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/6201

What was that, did I hear someone say Costello ?

Hanrahan in my view you have sailed a bit close to the wind with your terminology.
Look back at your words, see the those against my view are idiots theme.
I do.
And Bazz are you two aware Barnaby's team are now his harshest critics?
The debate has been had ,within the coalition, he remains only because to remove him now would admit Abbott got it wrong.
No rumor, no made up story I only wish I could tell you, my information comes from within.
Now our position in the developed world is outstanding, take some credit for it John Howard, but know Rudd's leadership helped a great deal.
Hanrahan, you will indeed see Joyce at the next election.
Join a growing crowd up the back, silent at present but filling their lungs with air.
Waiting to taunt me after the election, with fingers crossed and in some cases eyes, convinced I am wrong.
But refusing to say so, until after a victory THAT WILL NOT come.
Todays federal opposition is an asset to Kevin Rudd.
And Labor will increase its majority, so take on board this, voters who think/vote other than you want, are not mugs it is Democracy at work.
You have every right to your views and every Right to be wrong.

Perhaps this will put it into perspective;

http://www.debtclock.com.au/

In a couple of days it has gone from $62B to $65B.
I think the worry is that it is going the wrong way !

A government running a country can be likened
to a home owner looking after their home.

It takes time to save and it takes time to repair
what has deteriorated during the saving period.

The present government (home owner) is now fixing
up the home - everything was run down by the previous
home owner and the current home owner is fixing it -
no matter how inconvenient it may be for those
living in the home or how concerned the occupants
are about the costs. Repairs need to be done - on the
basics or things will get worse.

Also sometimes lightening strikes unexpectedly and
takes out the roof (economic global recession) and
immediate funds have to be found to provide the
occupants of the house with shelter.

It's understandable to be concerned about the costs
involved - when one is not concerned about the extent
of repairs required - e.g. "I don't care if the roof falls
in, I just want to save lots of money!"

However, the present government has a sense of responsibility -
to the nation - and wants to assure stability and growth in the
years to come.

That would all be fine Foxy if that was where the money was going.
It is not, it is going into unnecessary overheads that could have been
done in the natural maintenance programs.
$900 to every man and his dog, most of which money went to China & Korea
to pay for LCD televisions etc. I know thats where mine went.

It is going into make work programs and we will overshoot on what is needed.
It appears that Australia's stimulus was in fact 9% of GDP the
largest in the world.
Kevin's foot is still jammed on the accelerator, he must be driving a
Toyota, his campaign ute ?
He needs to try the brakes.

Bazz your one sided view is not shared by most financial leaders or voters.
This year Australia will reject those views and you can bank on that.

Dear Bazz,

Ok. let's assume the government terminated its
stimulus package - what would be the effect?

Commitments made under the stimulus package would
be negated - people who paid tentative deposits
for works under that package - would lose their
deposit monies (I would lose $2,500 deposit).
Trades people engaged to perform the work will
become unemployed, products delivered for the proposed
works would be scrapped. Materials ordered overseas
would have to be paid for. And we would have generally
a major mess.

For example, people who have hired builders to build
houses, and these builders who walked out half-way
through the building contract would leave a mess and
a financial catastrope for the home owner.
That is not a desirable outcome. Magnifiy this on a
national scale - and where would that leave the country?

All financial experts agree that Australia is ahead
of the game - but it wouldn't be it it suddenly dropped
its bundle so to speak - and closed up shop as you suggest.

As for the PM's Ute? Nah, that wasn't the PM's Ute - it
was simply an Opposition "backfire!"

Foxy,
Obviously contracts that have already been signed have to be
honoured.

I am reading Jeff Rubin's book "Your World is About to get a Whole Lot
Smaller". We was chief economist at Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce
and it appears was one of the top economists in Canada.

He compares, in the chapter I have just read, two economic bubbles
and financial crashes and how they were handled.
Japan's crash which led to their lost decade and Argentina.
Japan did not go down the stimulus route and Argentina did.
Japan had low growth for a decade and Argentina has had years of
falling services and debt.

Jeff Rubin maintains that Japan came out better and that I believe
that as we are going into an extended period of low growth or no
growth we would have been far better off emulating Japan's method of
handling the crisis.

Now we are stuck with it and risk being dragged down by the US and
European countries. There is no way we can avoid it now because the
stimulus funds were borrowed from overseas and have to be repaid from
a low growth economy and the growth is unlikely to be big enough to
pay the interest.

We will be in a low growth to contraction economy from about now to
about 2015 when energy depletion will set in and we will then have
no hope of paying our debts and will see major contraction of
services, and probably pensions etc. There will not be any school
halls being built either.

I believe this will all happen no matter what party is in power, as
neither of them over the last ten years were prepared to listen.
I suggest you read the Hirsch report and you will see why it is now
to late.

http://www.netl.doe.gov/publications/others/pdf/oil_peaking_NETL.pdf

Cheers

$65,461,585,948.00 and counting

Dear Bazz,

It seems to me that you totally believe Senator
Joyce's claims that Australia is, " the Greece
of the Pacific; the Argentina of the Antipodes;
the Iceland of the south..." a country with a
government so profligate and a public debt so
huge that it's in imminent of danger of default.

All this doesn't make sense when international
financial experts like Brendan Flynn, who analyses
Sovereign risk for Standard and Poor's gives the
Federal Government the highest triple-A credit
rating.

You only get a triple-A rating when you've got
an extremely strong ability to meet financial
obligations and very little chance of defaulting on
debt.

According to the experts we have an excellent
debt-to-GDP position which is the envy of the
industrialised world and international investors
see Australia as an excellent credit risk.

But hey, you go on believing whatever you want.
Time will tell - who's right.

As Peter Costello's former Press Secretary suggested -
Mr Abbott needs to place Senator Joyce on Ritalin
to take him down a peg or two - or sack him as the
Shadow Finance Minister.

Mr Abbott has admitted that his Minister would need
correcting, "from time to time."
He can add Senator Joyce's claims that Australia
is at risk of defaulting on its national debt
to the list.

Bazz,

If that debt is really true, why doesn't the Coalition drive a debt truck around town that emulates the website you showed us? With big red LCDs that whiz through the numbers.

It'd be interesting to see the reaction to it if nothing else.

Actually Foxy you point up exactly what is the problem.
Foxy said;
>You only get a triple-A rating when you've got
>an extremely strong ability to meet financial obligations

You can hear that attitude in financial circles every day.
We know that Standard and Poors failed in their duty to warn of
the poor nature of the financial instruments being flogged around the
world. Local government councils in Australia bought the mortgage
investments that had AAA ratings. Yet they lost most if not all their
investments, so please don't take too much notice of Standard & Poors.

My son is in the financial business and I asked him why are financial
advisors, investment companies and indeed the whole financial field
continuing to advise investment instruments that assume recovery
and business as usual ?
His answer was enlightening.

If they tried to structure their business around energy depletion in
the next decade or even sooner and considering a zero growth regime
they would not get many subscriptions and the projected returns
would be so low as to be unprofitable.

They are faced with telling it as it is and going out of business now !
As my son said, "What can we do except hang on and hope".

Some financial people are like the politicians, they just don't want
to know and tell the public how it is until it cannot be avoided.

Following this discussion I have put my money where my mouth is and
I am moving into fixed deposits while I think about it.
The latter part of the year is where we might get an indication as I
note Alan Kohler on ABC has been dropping hints about that.

Dear Bazz,

Your son has proven my point.

Criticizing and undermining our government -
scaring off investors - would be detrimental
to our economy.

Senator Joyce needs to take heed - as does
the Opposition.

Things could get much worse.

Bazz the stimulus was/is extreme, but not new whole financial plans involving such government interventions are to be found in our history.
Both sides used them and continue to do so.
Your doom and gloom, may well be right, but because the mess is not yet over.
Do you understand our total debt if compared with Americas is crumbs?
Or England's
Ice lands, Greece, a host of country's.
And have you doubts if in power in 2008/9 conservatives here would have, like every western world country, spent money we did not have.
Let us not mix up the true remaining western debt problem with this country's position.
To compare our country with any south American one is at best uncharitable.
The subject of this thread is Barnaby Joyce.
either a fool or a man who lies repeatedly to bring about unfounded fear.
Both in my opinion.
And not even close to having the skills his job demands, then again it appears Abbott got what he asked for.
fear and a shadow of Joe the flying foolish peanut.
Your task Bazz is to find a reason other than truth to cover Abbott dumping our Barny pre election, he will do so.

Well gentleman, you have had your chance to make a few telling points , but your back to playing the man and his foibles.
Barnaby , with his succinct and competent explanation of just how any decent Treasurer would review foreign investment made minced meat of the " he's not competent" trashing he's been getting .
Jones didn't get it , but I am sure many in the ABC audience across Australia could see who had some competency to talk big picture ecomia matters, and it wasn't Tanner http://abctv.blogspot.com
Tanners tired old talk of reasonableness in all matters demonstrated the woosy leadership style of those who can't stand up and say what they think in their appointed households.
Those who follow careless free trade talk to its natural end will find its " let everyone do what they like" -
sound's good to me ? Whats this ?--Labors version of how to grease the wheels of entrepreneurship, the trickle down theory of investment ? ) - The Labor party are running a family where the children are in charge and the noisy and the novel get what they want.
Barnaby wasn't alone on QandA last night. The pretty ones were trying to chime in- Labor looks like they can't do anything with the household budget but blow it on poorly targeted tokens, trinkets and old touchstones.
Well done Barnaby

The problem Foxy and Belly has nothing to do with our relative
position re other countries, but just the lack of growth.
Growth is getting very hard to produce.
Because energy has become so expensive, remember it has increased by
about five times in less than a decade, a large part of what would
have been GDP has ended up paying for the energy to produce that GDP.

The stimulus expenditure has not been in production but in overheads.
Therefore that expenditure, except for income tax & gst will not
produce enough return to cover capital and interest.

Even I as a non economist can see that.
I am not sure that Barnaby understands that either as I have never
heard him say anything about energy depletion. Wait a minute, I have
just remembered he did say something about peak oil some years back.
I guess he has been pulled into line by the politicians of both
parties and told it is a non subject !

No I am not paranoid, it is a world wide political plot !

I am greatly amused by the last two posts.
And extremely happy our Barny remains in the house.
Polls clearly still show an ALP victory.
Good onya Barny trouble!

>>Barnaby , with his succinct and competent explanation of just how any decent Treasurer would review foreign investment made minced meat of the " he's not competent" trashing he's been getting.<<

Do you believe he actually cut through, though? Which goes to my earlier point that he's not the best guy for the job. The problem with Barnaby is that he's typecast himself. The only thing that cuts through are his one-liners. As soon as he gets serious, it suddenly isn't noticed.

This will always be a problem for a politician regardless of whether he knows what he's doing. If the Coalition wants a hint, they should look to more solid individuals to put in charge of their economic team. If I was in their shoes, Turnbull would be leader and a sober individual like Andrew Robb would be Treasurer. As long as Joyce is in his current positione, the Coalition will gain no traction in the important economic arguments.