The Forum > General Discussion > Canadian democracy gone south ( to US paronoia)?
Canadian democracy gone south ( to US paronoia)?
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Posted by examinator, Saturday, 30 January 2010 11:02:57 AM
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This is a must see short video of Obama justifying what he calls "prolonged detention" without trial,on the basis that you may commit a crime.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_msTII61hWY The really big issue is preventative detention.Even if you are suspected of committing a crime,you can be detained indefinitely without legal council or a trial.ie Arrested and detained on the grounds of crimes you might commit.Are we collectively stupid,or do we just don't care? Kevin Rudd is in the process of censoring the internet and complacency abounds. Orwell must be rolling in his grave. Posted by Arjay, Saturday, 30 January 2010 3:02:11 PM
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Arjay mate, you must have cornered the market on aluminum tin foil for hats.
Linking Obama's political diatribe with our internet censorship is a long, long, long, long, long, long bow. (6degrees of separation and then some) However, Bush + US paranoia + politically bound Obama = the case. Posted by examinator, Saturday, 30 January 2010 4:16:18 PM
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Have you bothered to view the evidence examinator,or are you just content to live in your cacoon?
Posted by Arjay, Saturday, 30 January 2010 6:51:35 PM
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Dear Examinator,
There's a book written by award winning writer - Michelle Shepherd called, "Guantanamo's Child: The Untold Story of Omar Khadr," that may be worthwhile reading - if you can get a hold of a copy from a nearby library. Apparently Omar Khadr was 15 years old when he was arrested in 2002 and taken to Guantanamo. He's spent a quarter of his life there. It seems that fear has trumped fundamental rights! Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 30 January 2010 9:13:30 PM
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Arjay,
Of course I did I *always* do if I post a comment. I thought it was clear, I am examinator by name and nature. three points a. Ron Paul is a majority figure among voters. b. The commentator wasn't objective and made several unsubstantiated unproved assertion. Do you/she know *specifically* what Obama has in mind? Smarter to wait and see the detail then act,if you're a US citizen or there is a *direct* problem for Aussies. c. This has bugger all to do with us and even less about our proposed internet censoring. The only possible link is separation degrees of separation and then some. Its a bit like saying Italian politics is a shambles therefor Rudd is corrupt. The point of this topic was clearly *Canada's* lack of courage of convictions over a 15 yo citizen's human rights. We all know the detention laws in the US are an obscenity. I also believe, Howard failed as a PM for not demanding Hicks to be returned to us to deal with rather tacitly approving of the stripping of his rights. Qnly possible because of Howard's domination of the party and its belief that party's reelection/continued power trumped principal. Additionally he shared (conservative)values with GWB (arguably the worse US president ever and a *presidential* incompetent etc.) Howard, in my mind was the worst Aus PM ever, because of this and other the party and his hubris before the people acts. US idiocies has no *current* bearing on Australia other that *preemptive action*, the very issue I , you are concerned about, with preemptive prolonged detention. You need to be consistent about the rule of law...innocent untill proven guilty or preemptive laws. This applies equally to *maybe* govt excesses by drawing from different systems/countries (US) I further argue that sort of treatment being handed out to an obviously emotional influenced boy is hardly going to make him a US fan. My ultimate point was to say he represents the middle east problem in microcosm. Treat emotional people badly long enough and your fears of retaliation/terrorism will be self fulfilling prophecies. Posted by examinator, Sunday, 31 January 2010 1:20:49 PM
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"Toronto-born Mr Khadr 23 is the only citizen from a Western nation still being held at the Guantanamo prison."
hes being charge for the murder of a soldier in Afghanistan in 2002 which he denies.
Rights guaranteed to him by Canada's constitution were broken by Ottawa sending agents to question him in Guantanamo in 2004 and sharing the information with the US, the ruling from the nine judges said.
It said his continuing detention meant his rights continued to be violated.
"Canada actively participated in a process contrary to Canada's international human rights obligations and contributed to [his] ongoing detention so as to deprive him of his right to liberty and security of the person" as guaranteed by the constitution, the ruling said.
But the Supreme Court said that to order Ottawa to seek his repatriation from US detention would infringe on the government's power to conduct foreign affairs.
"It would not be appropriate for the court to give direction as to the diplomatic steps necessary to address the breaches of Mr Khadr's charter rights." "
I ask given his age at the time of the crime (15/16 at that age he was obviously a terrorist master mind.) why not charge him in a standard court for murder why military tribunal.
The second and more serious question is to the Canadian System , if the High court can't tell the govt to rectify the problem what does this say about their checks and balances in their democracy.
Sure the court can say....fix it but not dictate how?
BBC news