Daggett,

So now I have justify why I might vote for John Howard? Is it just me who has to justify myself to you? To whom do you justify your beliefs?

Where were you when Whitlam and company stuffed up? Were you even born? Rex Connor was disloyal to Whitlam as well as being a total incompetent. Same goes for the left lunatic, Cairns. Whitlam was dudded by his own people. The electorate endorsed the dismissal.

Anyone who considers himself a socialist, as you proudly do, is out of touch with reality and the harm that that stupid philosophy has done all around the world.

I presume you are trying change my mind, in your arrogance, but you have failed miserably and merely demonstrated your own ignorance. Dangerous naifs like you strengthen my resolve.

Robby H,

Fine one you are to talk about others being irrational. If you really believe what you say, you are away with the fairies.

Your ignorance is appalling. You don’t even know why Australia was settled in the first place. You don’t appear to have travelled anywhere in Australia to see what geographic conditions exist outside your own dunghill are like. You obviously haven’t read any of the learned opinions by people who actually have the knowledge to calculate a sustainable population for Australia.

Your opening comments are ludicrous. Even buses and other public transport have passenger limits for safety. People already in Australia have every right to say when enough is enough with immigrants.

If you want to push your nonsense, try it on with the scientists – not politicians - who will tell you that we are now well past sustainable population levels.

Rojo,

If farmers are supplying bore water to Toowoomba, how is it that that town is such dire straits? How is the water getting from farm to town? Are you sure that the bore water is potable? If it is, why were the people of Toowoomba asked if they would like to have recycled water? You say that you “believe”. Facts are needed

Leigh, I said "believe" because the proposal was made 6 months ago and Toowoomba's water crisis is not over. An interview on local radio recently "led me to believe" it is happening, but it may not be yet. Here was my original source. http://www.abc.net.au/rural/news/content/2006/s1701477.htm

rojo,

(At least you appear to have read most of my posts, and have not resorted to personal attacks, so thank you.)

The fact that there are some, as yet, unexploited reserves of underground water in parts of this country doesn't alter the fact Australia is a very dry continent and we have clearly already overshot it's carrying capacity. Even if we can exploit those reserves they are finite and piping them to the settled parts of Australia will require the further consumption of non-renewable fossil fuels.

In fact, the world's agriculture has been dependent upon such underground water. I heard a scary statistic (can't give the precise measure) a few years ago that far more water is consumed each year by the world's agricultural system than falls out of the sky above. As a result, the levels of the world's underground water tables are dropping each year. So, feeding the world's population now depends upon at least two non-renewable resources : fossil fuels and bore water.

Can I suggest that you read the transcript of an interview with Fred Pearce, author of "When the Rivers run dry" at:

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/nationalinterest/stories/2006/1730593.htm#transcript ?

In regard to the claimed achievements of landcare as opposed to Paul Sheehan's very pessimistic view, I truly hope you're right. I think some of what you describe gives me hope that the enormous damage done to our agricultural land can be undone. At the moment I am engaged in discussions with others who you would find even more pessimistic than I am in this regard. Until I am convinced otherwise, I am going to to assume that the overall truth lies much closer to what Paul Sheehan says is the case.

(ToBeContinued)

(ContinuedFromAbove)

rojo,

Yes, it is true that Beattie actually asked more people to move to Queensland only in late 2005. Although I have lost the full page advertisement, I transcribed much of it before I lost it, and posted it to http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=4591#44914

Since then, I believe he is still encourging this interstate migration. He excuses himself to say that there is nothing he can do, but he won't come out and publicly say that population growth is bad and he won't show any leadership by taking a stance against the international immigration into this country which is driving interstate immigration.

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Leigh,

As I said, I think it is reasonable to ask why you would contemplate voting for a government such as John Howard's. If you don't agree, then suit yourself.

Just because I have a different political viewpoint to you, that doesn't give you the right to resort to personal abuse. I had thought that we had something in common in regard to questions of the environment and to population, however, if you have chosen to allow those other differences be a barrier between us, then I consider that your problem and not mine.

BTW, I was an early teenager during the years of the Whitlam government and had something to say about it at: http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=5018

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RobbyH, you wrote: "Khemlani ring a bell Daggett? Or was he too alleged only?"

I had already acknowledged the Khemlani affair. You should read my posts more closely.

Please tell me why, if a Minister chooses to use unorthodox means to raise funds for a worthy end, does that make him incompetent? What are your criteria for judging a government susc as Whitlam's as incompetent, other than taking as gospel truth, what the media barons choose to tell you?

Did you also disagree with Connor's plan to buy back the farm and make this country energy independent?

The beauty of THINKING & VOTING Contrary.

I am fanging to see who Howard and Iemma and the other state leaders are REALLY working for. They sure as hell aren't working for average Australian citizens and taxpayers. Bloating city populations to stress US so we will be bigger, more obedient CONSUMERS. In order to compete with presure-cooker populations and foreign ownership and ensuing foreign charging rights, we will need to buy and consume more and yes gamble more and take drugs to ease our pain. Guess who wins?

Women in our society are already asking the appropriate questions about the perils of this global Corporate Consumer nudge:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/motherhood-statements-of-feminism-ring-hollow/2007/01/01/1167500060563.html

I would like to see what post-ministerial appointments Howard, Iemma and co get and from WHOM. Its nice to know who your governors really are in a so-called DEMOCRACY. Aren't other Australians at all curious? Don't we have the right to lift the veil and find out?

I guarantee for starters that Howard and Iemma etc will not return as opposition leaders beause there is no glory, no added post-ministerial inducements in that.

And remember If Federal Labor and state Liberals are elected and keep immigrating, toadying to foreign and McBank corporations and stressing us out of our basic human right to quiet enjoyment of our cities and environment they can be Thought and Voted out the next election.

ITS THAT EASY.

Life doesn't have to be like a box of chocolates ... You CAN find out which one you want to get.

I should also point out that Clive Hamilton of the Australia Institute (http://www.tai.org.au) wrote an excellent article against population growth and further high immigration in the Sydney Morning Herald of 30 December. It is entitled:

"It's life, but certainly not as we want it"

... and can be found at:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/its-life-but-certainly-not-as-we-want-it/2006/12/29/1166895477172.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

This drew a response and further discussion (now closed) at http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/30/and-a-happy-new-year-to-you-too-clive/