Did Tony Abbott truly say he would have some boat people turned back to sea if he lead us?
Just what if true would that look like to the world?
Far worse than Howard's system, maybe even bringing death to some refugees, surely he did not say this?
Todays polls in my view are not yet against the bloke, people my age seem willing to believe him, but that will change if he continues to shoot from the lip.

I share your concerns Belly. What he is reported to have said doesn't sound good at all. However, as I'm travelling around at the moment and not really able to research the full context, I'd want be careful about just what he did say and what context it was said within.

don't forget that many deaths have already occurred due to Mr Rudd's trying to act tough and kind policy. The disincentive to get on leaky boats would quite likely save more lives than those that have been lost under our current incompetent Government.

Runner, please consider, you are no recommendation for the Christian faith.
In fact we are talking about people already in boats and in Australian territorial waters.
In no other place could our government turn them back legally.
You could be condemning them to die at sea, and some of them would in fact be Christians.
Ludwig sorry to say he was quoted and in fact said it.
In my first post I spoke about older people considering giving him a go.
I never could his form is well known, but my in box is increasingly full of Christian extremism, environmental extremism, and such I will never know why, but some has the e mails full history and hundreds are sending this junk around.
Abbott is fundamentally wrong, to his party and his country, in trying to buy votes he already has, with such extremist rubbish.
Our country it is said has taken in 2700 refuges in the last 12 months, those who would take less or none surely would not send them to die?

I think abott should be renamed

*Captain Plastic*

instead of

*Captain Catholic*

Dear Belly,

The guy's an idiot.

Words of wisdom don't fall out of his mouth.
He espouses whatever he thinks is going to
be "popular." In this case - pandering to
people's fears to win votes. Perhaps he and
Pauline Hanson are related?

His remarks have the potential of doing
this country a great deal of harm
internationally. They reek of the "bad
old days," when fear was the order of
the day - of people who were "different."

His words are playing on those same fears -
ignoring the fact that in most cases the
"boat people," have turned out to be genuine
refugees.

But, let him continue to speak. He only proves
the old adage to be true:

"It's better to let people think you're a fool,
then to speak and confirm it."

Foxy I doubt our refugee policy is going to damage our relations very much with most countries across the world in reality- it seems most of Europe isn't too far off what we're doing regarding refugees/immigrants in practice, nor is America or most of Asia.

Belly, give it a rest mate.

Your bloke, Ruddy, said exactly the same thing, before the election. It was being discussed elsewhere, that he has squibed it when the crunch came. Just like he squibed being a fiscal conservative, when required.

After getting this wave going, it might take more than turning a few around, to stop it. When do you start to call it an invasion?

You seem to miss the point Belly

'You could be condemning them to die at sea, and some of them would in fact be Christians.'

People have already died at sea under the Rudd Government. If it was Howard in Government the press would be howling. Your labour loyalty does seem to blind you.

King Hazza you missed the point totally, we are not talking about our policy but Abbott's far different one.
Hasbeen, give it a miss? have you no understanding?
I used only the mans own words to convict him, not mine.
It is remarkable that such a man claims to be a Christian.
Well in fact is a Christian.
Gather runner and a host of OLO Christian's, invite Abbott, lets hear them tell us why anyone, should be returned to a leaky boat.
Runner I miss no point.
You however do.
I am aware you do not represent modern Christianity, if you did?
The speed of evolving to a world without primitive belief in a God would triple.

Currently:

ABC Radio National , 2 January 1:00 PM reports:”Tony Abbot has vowed to turn refugee boats back out to sea if he becomes PM “

OLO Belly, Saturday, 2 January 2010 1:05:34 PM: “Did Tony Abbott truly say he would have some boat people turned back to sea if he lead us?
Just what if true would that look like to the world? [ tut –tut!]

OLO Belly, Saturday, 2 January 2010 6:00:29 PM “Abbott is fundamentally wrong, to his party and his country, in trying to buy votes he already has, with such extremist rubbish.
Our country it is said has taken in 2700 refuges in the last 12 months, those who would take less or none surely would not send them to die?” [ more tutting]

But, what if this happened?

ABC Radio National, 5 January 1:00 PM reports: “Today after a special caucus meeting, the ALP has announced that it has adopted a much tougher asylum seeker policy. From now on any further refugee boats entering our waters will be turned around and sent back…”

Then, we’d probably see this:

OLO Belly , 5 January 2010 1:01 PM “My party has shown backbone when it is needed. I know it won’t be popular with some here. But surely sixty boatloads in 12 months is too much .Surely we had to draw the line somewhere. I support my party’s stand. That rabble in opposition cannot make tough decision, they have shown they cannot lead us.
My party has shown it deserves to be in office for a hundred years, my party is already grooming Rudd junior to take over from Rudd senior and has provided extra funding to the CSIRO to clone Julia Gillard.

Refugee policy and immigration are big election issues and both sides have been guilty of swaying in the wind to see which way the tide of opinion eventually blows.

And once in government it is a different story trying to balance security and humanitarian obligations in the face of strong public opinion on both sides of the debate.

Abbott is playing on people's fears and concerns about illegal immigrants and if there is a vote in it then all bets are off and the odds against humanitarian concerns. It is hypocritical in the extreme for Abbott only the other day arguing about safety and people travelling in leaky boats and then to advocate for a policy to turn those same leaky boats around

No Belly I did not miss the point at all- Tony Abbot's policy will NOT actually offend many other countries at all, as again, the US, the EU and most countries in East Asia are not to far away- or possibly already there- and as the level of popularity for such proposals is pretty high in every one, I doubt there will be much public backlash singling us out either.

So I'm asking, which countries are we going to worsen ourselves to?

Horus, thanks for the quotes. It is always nice to see the original words.

The Howard policy was very similar to what Tony Abbott is saying now. Boats of refugees were towed back to Indonesian territorial waters, had most of their fuel removed so Australian was completely out of range, then released. I don't know whether they towed them once they hit Australian waters, but I can't see why they would not.

That policy is the principle reason the flow of boat refugees dried up during the Howard era.

There is no doubt in my mind it is completely against the spirit of the UNHRC. Whether you support the UNHRC depends on your politics I guess, but remaining signatory while wilfully ignoring it as Howard did and Abbott is proposing to do strikes me as a bit rich.

rstewart you understand I never said it don't you?
But horris adds to the list of people who claim my views are slanted by my party affiliations.
Now that is rude, blind, and unintelligent, I need not quote again at least ten threads that kick my party my threads.
I need not again say Gillard will never lead, nore have my support.
Need I say Rudd is doing a good job, that I am proud of him, but one is enough?
This I know, the bitterness at boat people, the idea they jump ques, even that we should stop them, should never be by this stupidity.
Abbott is a clown, tell me will his rants win one uncommitted vote back.
And will it not cost him ten for every one it wins?
The current opposition has only one policy, oppose for oppositions sake, and use fear if and when you like.
In government, the thought is funny, Abbott would never implement this policy
Politics in this election year will bring, and end to Abbott's career, self inflicted wound.
a start on truly rebuilding conservatives after Rudd's increased majority.
And just maybe a migration policy that is not driven by such blindness by both sides.

Years ago now I sat in on a

*Carmen "I can't remember" Lawrence*
(another bogus plastic politician, though note I found this place by way of her website)

pow wow on refugees. Carmen's response to what appeared to be the expression of a lot of genuine concern for the Asylum Seekers from her constituents was something like:

" ... Well we feel for them but you can't expect us to commit electoral suicide. ... "

Hmmm ...

Of course, me being a heckling smart _rse who Luv's to do the occasional quip, chirped up:

"VOTE FOR BOB BROWN - HE'LL FIX IT!"

HaHaHa

..

Aaah, the simple pleasures of tossing my 2c in as a part time apprentice watermelon farmer.

HaHaHa

Yay Team! Wooop, Wooop, Wooop!

;-)

Belly: "rstewart you understand I never said it don't you?"

Yes, but I find discussing hearsay is often a waste of time because people often hear the most unlikely things. Horus provided good citations, putting your topic on a firm basis.

Horus's point about it being a political discussion with you presenting your sides viewpoint was just a statement of the bleeding obvious. Everybody here is doing that. Even Horus was doing that while he attacked you for doing the same thing.

Posted by rstuart, Sunday, 3 January 2010 11:25:45 AM

" ... "

I thought you made some good and valid points in amongst it here
*RStuart*

The reality to me on this issue though is this. As a nation, we are far better off from a security perspective, especially as it applies to those countries renowned for corruption, grabbing a boat load of people and screening them pre Oz entry ourselves, than we are in risking real threats who arrive on fictitious identity documents and a wallet full of dirty loot.

Further, let the boaties come for the reason of giving the coast guard something to do other than play with their joysticks.

The plain fact of the matter is that the likes of Captain Plastic et al simply do not want the boaties because they are usually poor and uneducated, and they simply do not want the associated cost of integrating them.

Sooner the likes of *Captain Plastic* would have unchecked agents of corruption and subjugation come in and buy up our land and businesses with their ill gotten gains simply because they can afford it.

..

VOTE1 anyone other than the Blue or the Red of politics if you want people to be valued on a basis other than the size of their wallet.

Sorry rstuart I find that weird,and a cop out.
Having shared my views Crean and Latham betrayed the party, started threads about the dead, murdered by its own members NSW ALP my runs are on the board.
I never walk my party's line.
But Abbott?
now surely most share my view of the two, yes only two party's can win, Labor is the only electable one.
Greens are a refugee camp for ex ALP and true left voters, no future government Will ever be driven by Bob Brown.
Only he impresses me less than mad Abbott.
In truth can I believe this of you rstuart? that your whole thought process is controlled by the party you vote for?
No I would never think that.
Yes it is true, for just a few, they are indeed few but any person, any at all, who thinks his/her party no matter right or wrong, is an enemy of that party.
Constant change and improvement is the only path to better outcomes.
Last note this, John Howard, dislike him as I do, would never ever be silly enough to say what Abbott did.

* It is hypocritical in the extreme for Abbott only the other day arguing about safety and people travelling in leaky boats and then to advocate for a policy to turn those same leaky boats around*

Not so Pelican, somebody has to be a smartarse and try to prove
you wrong, so I will have a go :)

We know very well from the Howard years, that the quickest way to
stop the boat trade, is to turn some around and send them back.
The message soon gets out, people stop wasting their money and
the boats stop coming.

So the saying that "sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind"
has some merit. For in total, alot less people will risk their
lives on leaky boats, once a few are turned around and sent back.

Note how few boats arrived, once Howard implimented that strategy
and note the 60 plus boats that arrived, once word got out that
Kevie was a soft touch.

I am certainly no Abbott fan, but on this point that you have
made, you are clearly incorrect, as the evidence shows

Posted by Belly, Sunday, 3 January 2010 6:10:54 PM

" ... Greens are a refugee camp for ex ALP and true left voters, no future government Will ever be driven by Bob Brown. Only he impresses me less than mad Abbott. ... "

That's amazing! *Belly* can see the future. What's your next trick poppet? Walk on Water?

HaHaHa

We're getting to you aren't "we?"
Hmmm?

..

OY! I'll tell U how it is. John Howard in my view is a filthy little child abuser. And that goes for his mates too.

*Bob Brown* would never knowingly abuse anyones kids under any circumstances.

Nor would he socially degrade the weary and the weak legitimate Asylum Seekers.

And whilst he may be but Human, flawed and weak like the rest of us, he appears to be a "good person," for want of a better term, and if he was to become the President of an Australian Republic, I'm sure he would put together a talented team to deal with the the economy etc etc and not indulge in the cronyism that the main parties carry on with.

Ah Dream On you tell me you are getting to me but your post proves the reverse I am getting to you.
Your idiotic claim Howard, a waste of the air he breathed, was a child molester is almost mad.
Bob Brown? extremist rather than conservationist.
As much the man responsible for no ETS as any one in Australia.
See the future, yes just maybe, using understanding and a lifetime of studying politics ,I have an understanding.
But you fail to understand the present.
Yabby, Howard did not win by turning boats back at sea.
He made parts of this country non Australia, took rights to appeal away and sent people home from there.
Surprisingly he took many of them in bought them here to settle.
Even I am unsure that we should except so many, or maybe any boat people.
But drown them?
A chance exists we would by the strange wish of Abbott.
Lets think about just what Abbott, or Rudd could have said, we may well have seen support climb if.
A commitment for 20 years minimum prison for boat crews involved in smuggling, life for those who offend more than once.
I could continue but want to underline this, just as Abbott lost votes in trying to win those he already has, a cloud of condemnation will come my way.
Because Greens and the very left, think their cuddle a refugee is a majority wish.
To some extent, not popular but true, most of us, me too, are unhappy with the increasing arrivals.
No government, not any one, can make every one happy, this one is doing very much better than the last in migration via our refugee program, but in my view can do better.
Yep know the pink left will kick me, sorry Bob Brown, that will always be the color I think about when talking of you.
No new votes will be won by Brown as he ages he becomes more remote from reality.

Abbott's blown the dog whistle on refugees because it works. Even rusted on ALP true believers like my old mate Belly respond to it.

Belly, Bob Brown's no extremist. You're letting your fear of the Greens get the better of you.

Seconded CJ- it looks like an obvious case of having paid little attention oneself to Brown and the Greens and let someone else's (media journalist/editor's) stereotypes filled in the lack of information.

It shows because even the slightest information would tell one that Bob Brown won't be Prime Minister because he's a SENATOR.

And I'm saying this as someone who IS pro-border-security, and I can at least appreciate the political value of the Greens.

Would be better if we stopped being a signatory to the convention. The boats have not stopped and it is cylone season. Too risky for rescue boats this time of year. Sri Lanka can look after it's own people and soon the UN will update guidelines so last minute rush is on. The war ended, the camps are about over with. No reason for this surge if we were only accepting valid claims of persecution. It has become a joke. The US and EU are anti Sri Lanka because of their allegiance with Iran and China. Not our problem. We went along with their anti- Iraq, anti Afghanistan agendas. If they punish Sri Lanka for the last months of war then why not the US for their activities in Iraq? One rule for the large economies and another set for the smaller ones. No wonder there is rage against the west.

You are all missing the point.
With such large numbers of boats coming they are already running out
of the wrecks and the more recent boats are probably in better
condition.
In any case the crew would not go to sea if they thought they were not
seaworthy.
What happens when the navy shows up is they sabotage the boats so that
they will not be towed back to Indonesia.

So towing them back is only an option if they do not sabotage the boat
or it can be repaired.
The best solution is to impose say 20 year penalties on the crew and
make it well known in Indonesia.
That will stop it in its tracks.

If it keeps up at its present rate they will run out of suitable boats
or the charge to take them will get so high because of the cost of
the boats that they will change to coastal freighters and put
hundreds, perhaps a thousand or two on board.

Picking them up from a sabotaged boat and taking them back to
Indonesia probably won't work as Indonesia will refuse them.
The only real solution is to return them to their country of origin.

The best solution is to imprison the crew for twenty years.
According to everyone here the crew are risking the passengers and
their own lives, so they should get similar penalties to terrorists ?
hmmmm ?

The *Child Abuser john howard*

was told publicly and in no uncertain terms by Australia's most eminent body of psychiatrists

NOT

to continue to detain children under the circumstances in which he was

BECAUSE

it would result in serious mental illness for some.

And so it became for more than 1 CHILD.

We have had an eminent retired Federal Court Judges testify to this fact in this place, so I assure you, the only relevance to madness is your self delusion that people don't know the truth of this.

..

During her victory speech *Maxine McKew* mentioned the words of 1 of her constituents, which went something like this:

"OOOOO! isn't he the one that locks up children?"

..

Let the child abuser scream DEFAMATION if he has the stomach,
but as we ALL know, child abusers are cowards,
so I doubt we'll he much about it.

The only thought I have is "If we tried sending or towing boats back and I was a refugee with a wife and children and only death or slow starvation of my family was the alternative........what would I DO?

The opportunity might not be there but could a refugee become a terrorist? A family that takes enormous risks could be forced to take on the world. Do "we decide who comes to our country" and are we ready to fight to the death again after 65 years?

Probably the most dishonest part about this post as with many others is the self righteousness of those who have allowed themselves into being deceived that the 'left' are more compassionate than others. If it were nearly the case they would not be so callous in killing the unborn and would not have to protest violently every time they don't get their own way.

Well, no comment re Fluff or Noodle I see *Runner*

Thereafter, your comments are nonsense. The last time I heard of death and destruction re: the abortion issue was when a fruitcake so called catholic bombed a medical facility.

Now, has God/Jesus/ or the not so virgin Mary actually told you that abortion is a Sin?

Or do you just "believe" coz his popiness says so?
Or some other reason perhaps?

So, if you accept it is a matter of personal belief, then surely you accept that you like the rest of us are but mortal, imperfect and capable of error?

If you accept that, then why is that you seem to be uncapable of accepting that you may be wrong on the issue of abortion, instead of making these grandiose pronouncements as if you are the Avatar of God?

And that of course is the problem with fanatics like you.

If you were to say, I believe aborting chemically into a bucket or sucking it up the medivac is a sin under all circumstances because yada yada .. then perhaps I could take you more seriously.

I think you have become a pillar of salt, dry and barren of new information, fixated and obsessive and a bit of fluff or noodle stim would re-enliven areas of the brain long unused, and engender the flow of thoughts and feelings long forgotten, and perhaps in conjunction with a wider reading base, "new" ideas and realisations.

Come on bloke, how did you get the idea I said Bob Brown would or would not become Prime Mister?, can you truly think I do not understand a senator would have to move to the lower house?
Did you fail to understand? I said he would never influence a government, not lead influence.
Or just did you just fabricate that?
Sorry I understand the issue and Brown, he has lost the plot, under his leadership greens have too.
Refugees runner are humans too, you should address the issue not rant on about a different subject.
Greens, watch this space may well not win new seats, only so many refugees from major party's exist.

Diploman
"The only thought I have is "If we tried sending or towing boats back and I was a refugee with a wife and children and only death or slow starvation of my family was the alternative"

If only that was the case. I do realise that many of those that seek asylum are poor and want a better life for their families but the reality is that unless they are skilled they will not find it in a western nation. Even for us it is hard to get good work unless you are continually up to date with skills or trades. We just create ethnic enclaves that can continue to cause issues for decades.

The reality is for hunger it is far more viable to send money to the pLaces that need it. You can feed far more on the money we spend to rescue a few boat people. Sri Lanka has received our aid, Sri Lanka is on the road to recovery. Sri Lanka is not our enemy so we should not treat the country as such. The US hates Sri Lanka but they are behind on Chinese relations and still see China as an enemy. We do not. So the friendship Sri Lanka has with China should not colour our views as it does for the bigoted US.

Belly

'Refugees runner are humans too, you should address the issue not rant on about a different subject.'

That is exactly why the Labour party should cease their little political games and stop encouraging people in leaky boats to take a punt. It has already resulted in deaths and will continue to as long as Labour try and suck up to the UN and pretend to the Australian people they are taken a hard line. They should at least have the guts to be honest and stop playing with the lives of these desperate people.

Runner,

Remember that 353 people drowned on the SIEV-X in 2001 and there are a number of unresolved questions about that yet to be answered.

Would you prefer that we go back to the days of using agents to sabotage the boats before they sail and then ignoring distress calls as they sink?

Forcing boats that may not be able to make the return journey to safety back into International waters is not much different from the SIEV-X incident.

On that occassion 65 men, 142 women and 146 children were sacrificed on the altar of politics.

It's time to stop using this matter as a political weapon and find a bi-partisan solution.

rache,
You have been well indoctrinated if you still believe the wild speculation of Marilyn Sheperd and Co, about the Siev X and the theories of agents sabotaging the illegals boats. All wild speculation without any substance what so ever. The people on the Siev X drowned because of their own misadventure. Grossly overloaded, it sailed from Indonesia and sank in the Indonesian rescue zone and was never our responsibility. If you have questions, ask the Indonesians.

My question, from that period, is why any of those rescued by the Tampa were allowed into Australia and why some were not charged with hijacking the Tampa. More recently those on board the Oceanic Viking should not be allowed into Aus and should face hijacking charges.

The present government has encouraged people to try the sea journey which has resulted in about 50 deaths in about 18 months.

Belly,
You and I both know that Abbott, in government, could not turn the boats around any more than Rudd can, even though he said he would before the last election. The only way to stop the illegals from trying the sea journey is by not giving them what they want. i.e. Permanent residence on mainland Aus. As I have said before, it took the previous government about 5 years to discover that

No one seems to think my suggestion of gaoling the crew for 20 years
is a good idea. I haven't seen a better suggestion.

Yesterday there was a program on the BBC called My Country and
that days country was Italy.
The program was about the road south of Naples.
There are thousands of African boat people living in the area
which also has a mafia problem.

If you want to see the effect of uncontrolled boat people arrivals
go to bbcworld.com and watch it.
What a mess !
As one Nigerian put it, the third world has moved to the first world.

I think some of you have been telling lies and b.s. stories for so long that you have forgotten what the reality is.

There is only one issue.

*LEGITIMATE ASYLUM SEEKER*

or not.

From an international legal perspective, other than in the minds of the nefarious, it matters not how a person arrives, though one hopes they can achieve same safely for all concerned.

As stated, better they come on a boat. Gives the NAVY & INTEL crew something to do, keeping them sharp and on the ball.

All the red and blue of politics want to do is compete for the red necked, underbelly of Australia vote.

OH! And if the handling capacity of the processing facilities aren't big enough then we'll just have to make more, which would be a good idea if we are also going to be able to cope with likely abundant amounts of future climate refugees.

Is it getting warmer Noddys, or is it getting warmer?

Captain Plastic should retire i.m.o. for either being a turkey brain or a liar visa vi climate change.

LEGITIMATE ASYLUM SEEKER

We need new criteria to ensure the aslyum seeker fless GENUINE fear of political persecution. Anyone can fit the criteria these days it seems. Needs to be updated.

Yes I think I may actually agree with *TheMissus* on that one.

Australia is of course, whilst far from ideal and perfect, a most wonderful place, full of wealth and resources and only a few people.

This does of course make it very attractive for the fringe dwellers and caste offs of other countries in particular, and others too of course, to come. We must be in an active state of readiness, as there always has been and there always will be abusers.

What the Australian current political establishment must come to terms with is its want to discriminate on the basis of personal finance. In re-assessing the value of new Aussies, we can in fact bolster our economy which is short of skilled tradies, not business people and corruption kiddies.

And of course, it is the poor people who have these skills, and ones that we don't have, not *Hoo Flung Dung* and his dubious paper work and 1M bank balance.

..

P.S.

Resistance is Futile.

well bazz that was my idea, 20 years, and I do mean it.
Banjo, I know Abbot would not tow them out to sea, but the crimson fool said he would.
in winning an election, it starting to, you must not concentrate on those you can bank on.
Conservatives did this, over the ETS, say it is not true but in fact it is true.
more voters are lost by such actions as saying we should become a rogue nation, remember the UN attitude to us under Howard's system.
King Hazza seems to place little value on my understanding of politics, bank on this, Greens are not sailing well, just 6 months ago I thought they would control the upper house after the next election.
I want that election to be both houses and now, I give zero value to the independents and want them out of Parliament.
But believe me only very committed greens would want them in control of the senate with this modern Bob Brown in change.
I have advice for my minister, unless it is deliberate, unless he is trying to build up green votes, he must take

Oh how I hate that name: "Boat People", are they from the transformers movie?

They are refugees, they are men, women and children. If we are talking about the Tamil refugees then we are really talking about world heritage.

"Tamils have been called the last surviving classical civilisation on earth.
Inheritors of religious and cultural traditions going back to the Iron Age, the Tamils have a classical literature older and richer than most European countries. Their earliest works date from the third century BC.

In India's tropical deep south, the Tamils have tenaciously maintained the older forms of their civilisation, while at the same time taking on board modernity and globalisation."
Michael Wood, BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/india/gal_india_south_03.shtml

I could continue here about what is going on in Sri Lanka, but to me that is not the point. See my views in my first article here: "Joshua's footsteps"

My view of any “turn boats around” strategy is it would be a firm statement of by a future Liberal government

Confirming that the government that it placed its own citizens and electorate, who it is charged to represent, above and before the selfish demands of a bunch of opportunist “economic refugees”.

Krudds efforts have encouraged this current “wave” as he has weakened Australia’s resolve (basic capitulation versus the more stoic practices of the previous Howard government)

Any boat, loaded with those who seek to circumvent Australian migration laws, should not be allowed to disembark and the passengers produce a drain on public resources through being housed, fed or maintained at the expense of the Australian tax payer.

Those who seek illicit entry into Australia and seek to flout our right to choose who comes here are anarchists by any name and anarchy and should be discouraged at every opportunity.

Of course.. Krudd has his eyes set on a top UN role… that is why heis “brown-nosing” to the third world nations, puting his own egocentric asspirations above and before the expectations and interests of Australians

Dreamon- I think criteria should also include the mental/emotional state and compatability of the refugee, and the actual circumstances and allegiances of the individuals should also be considered (which, as of present, they currently are by the immigration department).
For example, if the person were persecuted by the government of his/her own country for belonging to a terrorist group, extreme religious cult, mafia or warlord clan which would be considered a security risk if operating in our own society/would not qualify for a license to practice here, I think a trip back is exactly what they SHOULD be given. I think legitemacy AND zero social risk assessment is what should be considered.

Belly- personally I analyze every single candidate and the practices and policy of every party they represent (especially on integrity and interest in actually doing their job, earnest support for more democracy/public ownership, or at least pointing out corruption).
On this criteria I've placed certain independents, Greens, and some grassroots minor parties (liberal and conservative types) at the top, some of the single-issue parties next, the loony religious parties below them, and the Liberals, Labor, Nats and Democrats dead last (as they've proven that they're blatantly filled to the rim with corruption). How anyone informed could still seriously think any of the four bottom candidates would still be trustworthy, authentic or even competent due to past performances is lunacy.

King Hazza start a thread I will come, but like it or not, with very few execptions, we vote two partys.
No independent in the senate is worth feeding.
Col Rouge your views are your right.
And in my view not even close to reality.
In fact a near mirror image of Abbotts unrealistic and no government would ever put them in place here.

Belly “Col Rouge your views are your right.
And in my view not even close to reality.”

Absolutely, My views are My right

And your “view” is, to my view, a complete irrelevance Belly

Something so removed form reality that only some form of socialist apologist would seek to find comfort in them.

Now we have that sorted maybe you could actual comment on what I said,

instead of doing your usual “projectile hurling from the back of the throat, into the wind - and all down the front of your shirt”

Why dont some of you charitable do-goofers go for a holiday to western europe, just anywhere in western europe, and see what benefits people from the "leaky boats" syndrome have done for the country that welcomed them and then post again on this web?
I am not a Liberal but if they come out and endorse Abbot's feelings on asylum seekers and economic refugees they have my vote. Absolutely.

OK, now call me a racist. That doesnt worry me. I love Australia more than any of you could.This country doesnt deserve to be trashed.

socratease

Col you remain the rude bloke I have grown to know.
Socratese, the art of debate, verbal tennis if you like is not your strong point.
I know how bad it is in europe, Sydney for that matter.
I am no fan of some migrants, sorry but true.
Dislike with every inch of my being those who think intergration is not needed once they come here.
So what did you and Coil base your diatribe on.
UNDRER STAND gentle men, Abbott must wish every night he had not said it.
This you must learn/should know Liberals will vote Liberal Labor will vote Labor.
The polls clearly show, the intent is to vote Rudd back.
Half witted statements like Abbotts true, take votes away, for every redneck he makes happy he turns ten away.
He could have said he would return to his partys policy returned every one, and won votes but he got it wrong he lost thinkers votes to retain red necks who had no other place to go.
And no understanding of politrics.

Belly “Col you remain the rude bloke I have grown to know.”

Ah Belly, thankyou, sometimes you say the sweetest things…

Even though I seem to upset your “genteel sensibilities”

Maybe try switching from English Breakfast to Earl Grey, I hear its better for those who are a little “delicate”

What worries me about this whole boat people or indeed any illegal
immigrant claiming asylum is how do you determine if they are genuine ?

If they say they are wanted by their government, what do you do ?
Go and ask that government.
They may answer yes we want to hang them for crimes.
They might say that because they want to be rid of them.
But maybe they meant it and they are a criminal.

If the foreign government say no, let them stay in Australia.
Then we should send them back.
But what if that government lies ?

Just because a whole boatload says they will be killed if sent back
is no reason to believe them. After all they have a long time to
practice their story to the point of believing it themselves.

Frankly with few exceptions, I suspect the vast majority are of no
concern to their governments, I'll bet they have no idea who they are.
Further more they couldn't care less.

The few exceptions would be in the system at the first safe country
and would not be arriving here after a stay in Indonesia.

I would like to know how our government or indeed the UNHCR is able
to ascertain the truth. I feel we are been taken for a ride.

Ah Col bloke its coffee black.
Bazz we may well be closer on this issue than others.
no way I would risk drowning them.
And not a chance of me supporting the Howard way.
Yes the PC mob will scream for my guts, but we take refugees, from camps all over the world.
My plan is different, but I think a bit more mainstream than the mad monk.
Send more home, ASAP.
Imprison for longer terms those involved.
And just maybe increase intake from those camps, at the expense of uninvited arrivals.

Belly "Ah Col bloke its coffee black."


I hear that is often used in colonic irrigation....

so enjoy

and make sure you are first at the coffee pot.... :-)

Thanks for your good wishes brother Col.
I have little need to use it for that, again thank you.
My view remains the same, Abbott won no Friends with yet another silly statement.

Hey Soctatease said
"He is richest who is content with the least, for content is the wealth of nature"
and
"Let him that would move the world first move himself."
and
"If a man is proud of his wealth, he should not be praised until it is known how he employs it."

oops no that was Socrates

All you idiots are living in glass houses....
dont throw stones at the Monk.He's a damn side smarter than any of you ever will be

socratease

Ah first day back at work, [well done a lot while on holidays] and that post gets me in the mood.
long drive hours in fact for meeting and will be smiling at the lost nature of that post for rest of week.
Abbott has not had a platform to rant from while Parliament is down.
Yes he and Joyce have continued to rant.
They try to convince confirmed conservatives to vote? as they always do!
Done a good job, but not won one vote from Rudd.
Abbott is no good to his party the underlining issue still is the very right took control with him, and the wound will fester until he fails, he will do so this year, badly,

Firstly socratease, who is throwing stones besides you?
The real monk said; I am intelligent, because I know I know nothing.
Secondly, really be careful who you call an idiot, because this idiot may be doing your pathology one day.
Using a famous name, like Soctatease (even if you spell it humorously) or Banjo mans that you feel arogent enough to use it, or you should endevor to live up to it.