I feel sorry for Malcolm Turnbull.
All he tried to do was direct the liberal party into a more modern tone of political thought, however the party now wants to adhere to the time honoured conservative rules and ways that mean the party still will promote a policy of old protectionist policy’s that isolate Australia from the rest of the world in terms of corporate interest, over the people, into our society that sustains an ignorance of human rights and social justice that is outdated and obsolete.
The problem is that certain members of the Australian liberal party do not believe in Global warming because it will contradict their corporate interests.
What is our alternative?
A do nothing Labor government that is in-experienced to manage an economy and a multicultural society.
The same government that allows a policy that would provide an excuse for the Australian corporate world to raise the prices for products and services they provide to us, the Australian people.
Which of course will be the ‘’real payers of any high tax or higher prices’’.

Grouchy, er ….Oscar, welcome to OLO.

Yes. I do sort of … vaguely… feel sorry for Malcolm Turnbull.

He did end up being a man of principle, and he only got tipped at the post by a single vote. So, yes the poor bugger deserves a bit of sympathy. Not much mind you, just a weeny bit!!

You wrote:

“The problem is that certain members of the Australian liberal party do not believe in Global warming because it will contradict their corporate interests.”

Yes!! This is their great problem – the continued worship of business as usual, which is based on continuous-expansion-with-no-end-in-sight profligate fossil-fuel-based economics.

You know, some people have accused Turnbull of being more akin to Labor than Liberal. But it is the crazy dinosaur continuous-growth record-high-immigration-supporting antisustainability Minchinites in the Liberal party who are actually a lot closer to Labor than Turnbull!

Oh well, maybe Malcolm will become a recycled leader, as Howard did.

I wonder how long it will be before there is a general consensus that he was a better leader than Abbott?

It's damn hard to ascertain the genuine policy of the libs when it comes to climate change.

Allegedly, Abbott is sticking with emissions targets and believes in anthropogenic global warming. His opposition to the ETS could be well founded in terms of its effectiveness and the massive concessions being given to industry rendering it somewhat useless. If he was genuine about climate change, I'd suggest a flat out carbon tax. That would make much more sense.

Smells like bulldust to me though. He's leading a party with a fair number of climate sceptics and he's not putting anything practical on the table, except uncosted promises of alternative energy sources.

Bunkum. That sounds like the Rudd approach of having cake and eating it too, except this time, half of the party goers don't want it to be cake and a fair number of them aren't convinced the cake is real.

Interesting and good to see some balls. Had a little E.mail not long a go, and the word is, the 19th is not up to the task. " A little quote. " Dont have any-more babies" a direct order from evolution." Take it as you will, maybe more the merry A. You humans cant be that thick?

Maybe REM (song) holds the solution, I don't know.. it sells its self...Sham WOW!

every time/we vote...we elect..those/who will be our masters
by voting..we achieve the status..of'wards of state'...voting powers for parental control's/..over us

the vote/demonockery..is a joke...you register/apply/beg to vote..for a master..to lord it..over you..to tell..you..what do do...thats a clever scam

The Viking Experiment..by Jacek Szkudlarek..Copenhagen
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=5540

I happen/to be blessed..with a rare point of view..observing the Danish society...When I came here..from the communist block,..I believed..that I had found a Paradise.

This has changed...LABORATORY OF ENSLAVEMENT?

The peoples..of Scandinavia come/more or less..directly from the violent..and warlike Vikings.

I guess..it was therefore extremely/interesting..for Illuminists to see..how nations..with SUCH roots/and such..”elan vitale”..will react to..an extreme social engineering..and to enslavement.

Danes,..Swedes and Norwegians/were therefore..the first..in the queue to..The Laboratory.

Having observed..these nations daily..for the last twenty years..I have not a shred of doubt..that they have been admitted..to the Laboratory..with applause.

Denmark was as an example..transformed..DIRECTLY..from being royal property..into a socialist,..collectivist state...Never was there a spate of freedom...Not a year...Not even a day!

In all/these countries,..all included,..taxes approach 80–90%.

Vast majority..of the population..think it is entirely natural...Many are prepared to pay/even more...And from their point..of view..they get a good value..for their money:..free health care,..free university education and much,..much more.

But..at the same time,..above their heads..hovers an enormous beaurocratic juggernaut..which consumes..a major chunk of taxes.

The State..knows everything about everybody...All registers are joined..and there are no secrets..for the BIG BROTHER...None.

School children..are indoctrinated..in everything/from climate change to evolution...Prepubescent children..learn how to put condom..on one’s partner’s penis...You can go to a health consulent ..nd get an advice to try a gay partner...”Don’t be so shy..and try your anus for a change,..my boy”.

Church in Denmark..is a government/institution of course..(the Queen being its titular Head).

Virtually/all Danes are Christians..but churches are empty on Sundays...Hardly anyone attend services anymore...To believe in God..is not a good idea. ..if you are a homosexual..you can get married in a church...

Priests do not even..need to believe..in God..they’re after all..just civil servants

Faith..is not considered necessary..to be a good..and conscientious civil-servant...And some priests..speak openly..(and brag in newspapers)..about their atheism...Nothing special/these days...Even kind of..politically correct.

You could ask..what is this..”Church” for?..Stupid question.

TO PAY CHURCH/TAXES..of course!..Almost all Danes..pay Church tax...Why?..In order..to get a place..at the cemetery..which would otherwise be problematic.

CARBON TAX?..YES PLEASE.

For..a Dane..therefore..to pay extra..”carbon”..tax..is no big deal,..the State's/stealing..almost everything..anyway...Two out of three/Danes..actually want carbon taxes!

Inhabitants..of this strange land,..,seem to love..their indotrinated/serfdom.

Newspapers..which are heavily/politically/correct..say year after year..that the Danes..are the happiest people on Earth...And they believe it...And..they are really happy..to be so happy...

Some people say,..and I will not/deny it,..that most..”citizens”..have probably/largely..forgotten..what real happiness is...So what?

LIBERTY?..WHAT IS….

Somehow nobody..seems to talk/about freedom and liberty...One could just as well..remove these words/from dictionaries...I am pretty sure that nobody..would have noticed...What use of liberty..when one is oh so..'happy'?

So,..you should not be/surprised..that Copenhagen..has been chosen for..the Climate Summit...People here sincerely/..believe./.in global warming..and feel..no desire to investigate..the matter for themselves.

If..the State/says it is true,..then it’s Gospel...'BIG BRODER'..would not lie to us,..would He?

There are/many strange,..often bizarre groups..and deviants...But they are not..challenging/BIG BROTHER..in any way...Some say..that BIG..is encouraging deviancy...Again,..I will not deny.

Whenever..I try to tell people/about climate hoax,..chemtrails,..FEMA camps,..toxic vaccines or 9/11 conspiracy,..they politely listen for up to two minutes..and then continue with their happy lives.

Why rock the boat?..It floats so well!

WHAT COMES AROUND….

For 1000 years..ago..the Vikings used to live off/looting expeditions all over..Europe and beyond...Today they eagerly rob each other..for the benefit of the all-powerful State..and the Illuminists.

And...everybody..is happy...by definition

This is what I call..definitive/historical justice.

I can imagine..that the Illuminists reasoned..that if they succeed in enslaving the wild Vikings,..all the other nations will follow without a problem.

P.S...Everything I have written above..has nothing to do with my neighbours and colleagues at work...Especially not with my Boss.

I like people here...They are nice,..well-educated and helpful. Really...Sometimes I think it is me..who is crazy..and I may be right...Why rock the boat?

more?
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=5544
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=5542
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=5493
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=5538
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=5523
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=5379

I think the Hadley Centre "Climate Gate" will put so called AGW in perspective.

Arjay,

Thanks for the site very interesting. The climate for Aust +2050 more than a bit scary.

Oscar, Welcome.

I do not feel a bit sorry for Turnbull. I disagree with you here. Turnbull, in dealing with the government on the ETS was simply pushing his own personal agenda. Frankly I think he is too smart to believe in AGW, so I think his motive was so he and his merchant banker mates could be involved in carbon credits trading here. The ETS is simply a tax on us that does nothing to lower CO2.

His own arrogance was his undoing. His reluctance to accept majority opinion. His chant of "I am the leader", "I am the leader" shows that clearly.

I don't know how you can say our society sustains an ignorance of human rights and social justice that is outdated and obsolete.

I also have not met anyone yet that does not agree that the climate changes and has done forever. However there are plenty that do not consider the changes are brought about by human activity. AGW is still only a theory.

I am a sceptic. I know we cannot influence the tides, earthquakes, volcanos, our orbit or rotation, continental drift, etc. yet some seem to think we are of such importance that we influence the climate. We cannot even accurately predict the weather or make it rain!

I certainly agree with you about us having to pay for an ETS and i suggest it would be quite a bit.

Banjo, you state: "I know we cannot influence the tides, earthquakes, volcanos, our orbit or rotation, continental drift, etc. yet some seem to think we are of such importance that we influence the climate. We cannot even accurately predict the weather or make it rain!"

This seems like pretty spurious reasoning to me. Applying this logic, then because we haven't affected something in the past then it won't be affected in the future.

"We can't influence earthquakes!" you say. Don't be so sure. It's all a matter of scale.
http://www.livescience.com/environment/ap_051203_tallest_building.html

"Lin Cheng-horng, an earthquake specialist at the National Taiwan Normal University in the capital, Taipei, says the 1,679-foot Taipei 101 building -- named for the number of floors -- might rest on an earthquake fault line.
In the scientific journal Geophysical Research Letters, Lin wrote that the pressure of the building's 700,000 tons on the ground may be leading to increased seismic activity."

Also, you said "we can't even make it rain!"

Uh, that seems like a bit of a simplification. Recently Beijing was hit by snow remarkably early in the year due to cloud seeding.

Have you ever heard of acid rain? Last time I checked, that nifty piece of weather was all our work.

You're arguing that because we haven't caused global changes before, we never will. Before nukes, I imagine people could have made a similar argument about destroying entire cities.

Banjo, I take umbrage at your somewhat incredulous tone. The weight of peer-reviewed science stands behind anthropogenic global warming.

The vested interests in maintaining the status quo are apparent, however the motivation for a global conspiracy of scientists who have some machiavellian plot to make us reduce carbon emissions because... well... because they're evil lefty smartypantses who want grants?

Hrm. Perhaps theres a place in this argument for incredulous tones after all.

Dear Banjo.
You quote
''I don't know how you can say our society sustains an ignorance of human rights and social justice that is outdated and obsolete''.

As a country we do this because we promote a living standard for the majority that is classed as ''First world'' ,however we allow Aboriginals and certain others to live in ''third world'' conditions and we allow this very easily without too much guilt,in fact, as a nation ,we have been reported to the U.N on serveral occasions for human rights abuses against Aboriginals and refugees.
I suggest you do some research as this imformation is easily available and a first year university sociology student or a year 12 sociology student could tell you that!
Why is it outdated?
Because this way of thinking allows our nation to be behind any other world trends and this applies to Global warming also.I suspect we will be one of the last nations on earth to embrace climate change princibles because of our conservative liberal philosophies.
Why?
Because our economy and corporate intertest comes first ahead of our nations people and welfare.

TRTL,
You can take umbrage all you like, I'll stick by my opinion until there is proof otherwise. AGW is only a theory and that theory seems to be crumbling as each day passes. Believers put their faith in the top scientists and now it is revealed that they fudged figures and had other shonky practices, like carrying out their 'peer reviews' for their mates and excluding others.

I pointed out there are quite a number of things we have no influence over and I include climate in that, until proven otherwise. I notice that in your eartquake example the bloke said 'may' which means he doesn't know. Its a clear blue sky here today and I would love to see someone make it rain, but alas, that research did not prove effective. 25-50 ml over our catchment would be good.

Thanks for reminding me about acid rain. Another scare that seems to have pettered out, like the Y2K bug and atomic bombs making all the rain in the 50s. One doesn't hear of the 'hole in the ozone layer' anymore, but the upcoming scare is 'acidfacation of the oceans' which is, of course, caused by us and we will be required to pay for that.

I do not care if these scares are put up by leftys, rightys or whoever but they come and go from time to time.

There have been about a dozen,or more, occasions, in the last 100 years, that the New York Times has reported that the Earth is warming or that another ice age is pending, all with the support of eminant scientists

So why would anyone not be sceptical.

Hey, our PM claimed that a couple of hot days in Adelaide was proof of AGW, now I see that Texas had their earliest snow ever. Is that proof that the earth is cooling. Oh no! not another ice age!

As a CONSTITUTIONALIST I have been writing with Malcolm Turnbull for many years now and found that he is failing to deal with reality. Basically too stubborn and had to go. As I wrote to him and Kevin Rudd and others where is the constitutional powers for the Commonwealth to legislate for an ETS? Surely this should be the first point of order? The Commonwealth can legislate as to taxes but not as to environment as that is a state legislative power. Malcolm remained ignorant to this and had to go. Simple as that. The ETS is not a tax for sake of obtaining revenue but is to seek to achieve something it has ordinary no constitutional powers for and as such unconstitutional! The RULE OF LAW must prevail and no issue, not even climate change can be deemed to be more important then the integrity of the constitution!

Thats fair.
What your saying is that the ETS is essiantally a state issue,and if thats the case i do not think it will be implemented in a short time.

Mr. Gerrit,
I certainly am not questioning what you say, but I do have a question.

Would not the Government have access to persons with intimate knowledge of our constitution and if so I wonder why they have not advised the government of what you are saying.

If the government has been advised as you say, then they must see it as a tax, to raise revenue, or surely they would not pursue something they have no power to impliment

In light of what you say, I find the whole episode of the ETS very perplexing.