45% of children living in the state of Louisiana today, live under the poverty line. These children are nearly all African Americans.

The United States parades it's African American figurehead (Obama) on the world stage whilst it allows it's business people to pay what appears to be less than subsistence wages to African American working people in the State of Louisiana resulting in almost half their children living below the poverty line.

Whilst an improvement( in stats) on the position of A.A's 200 years ago, it is not dissimilar in terms of opportunity for progress, for at least 45% of the children mostly of rural workers of Louisiana.

If I wasn't passing judgement, I would say "the stats speak for themselves, don't they?

It is going to get a worse.The collapse of the US dollar will see poverty extend into all middle classes.

This GFC has been orchestrated by the Global Reserve Banks.They create money from nothing in the form of debt,thus shares and property become way over valued.They then restrict credit to bring on recessions.They artifically create boom and bust cycles so they can buy up undervalued assets during the busts.

We have just seen the greatest theft of money from honest people in our history,via share losses,super, property,business and job losses.The money did not evaporate,it was re-distributed to the already very wealthy few.

Dear Thinker 2,

Welcome to OLO.

I agree with you - poverty is no laughing
matter - and although single events
like recessions or hurricanes threaten
low-income workers - the worst effects
come from poor education, low-paying jobs,
and other factors that often are passed down
from one generation to the next. Lack of
education in things like birth control,
family planning, teenage pregnancies, health
problems, don't help either. Once begun the
poverty cycle can last for generations.
We don't have to look to Louisiana - we've
got our own Indigenous people that have
similar problems.

What's to be done?

From the small amount of research that I've
done on the subject of poverty - the suggestions
that makes the most sense to me is - putting into
place programs that would break the poverty cycle.
Programs like - rural entrepreneurships, Government
Leadership, Education, Work-Force Development,
Rural Health Issues, and so on.

Well you have got a nerve to say that African Americans are below the poverty line when you look the Australian treatments of aboriginals haven’t you. Bit of pot calling the kettle black I think pardon the pun.
The only impoverished thing can see here is your lack of ingenuity in this obvious beat up, along with that retarded comment about the US dollar from the financial wiz kid that wouldn’t now an American dollar if it bit him on the backside. Get real clowns and try again

*45% of children living in the state of Louisiana today, live under the poverty line. These children are nearly all African Americans.*

At times America really does seem to be like two separate countries.
In the North you will find some pretty sophisticated thinkers.

Louisiana is bible belt country, the religious right dominate.
The thinking is primitive. Sex education for schoolkids is
frowned upon. Any girl who lands up pregnant and wants an abortion,
will battle to find a place that will perform it.

Last time I saw some figures, for the above reasons, young
unmarried mothers were extremely common. No doubt poverty is
common too. I'm just very happy not to have to live there.

Australian debt as of 2008, 5.7% of GDP, that’s over 1/20 Th of the GDP as compared to the USA i.e. $ 485,000 pp as compared to $587,000 pp in Australia. For any of the dooms - day economists.
It’s unfortunate that you like so many others that quote from opinion instead of fact, and so distorts the true picture.
You make comment on the state of Louisiana which has been totally decimated by two major cyclones , and then turn around and use the obviously skewed data that must essentially come for such devastation , as a typical state of America overall.
Talk about verbal masturbation.
Let’s face it yappy the closest you ever got to Louisiana must have been in one of your (wet) dreams because you’re talking garbage on this one.
I’ve got new for you your not wanted

Tomas that was a needlessly rude post.
And it was as strange and remote from truth as Ajay's.
What got up your nose?
Welcome to our new contributor, do not be afraid we are not all like that.
The subject was not Australian Aboriginal poverty, it was not African poverty it was based on fact.
The question has to be asked what can/are we doing about it?
In the midst of such true wealth so very many live in true poverty.
In our country, as we grow wealthier more street people seem to exist.
Why?

US has always had a high rate of poverty. They banned slavery apparently but really only moved the notch up to instead of providing you a roof and food for "free" we will pay you a little bit instead. They loved illegal migrants. People in very ordinary employment could afford a live in housekeeper, child minder, gardener for a small payment. If the worker was of a different race they were doing them a favour by exploiting their labour. If it wasn't for me employing them for next to nothing they would be on welfare. The US has flourished from the exploitation of many for the benefit of a few. We used to be egalitarian but now we are starting to be the same.

A conservative of US Govt Debt is $12 trillion or $40,000.00 for every person.Per family of 4 this is $160,000.00.With jobs decreasing with income,average families cannot afford it.

Total US debt is said to be $58 trillion.This is $189,000.00 for every man,woman and child.They cannot afford the interest,let alone repay the principal.

The derivative bubble is said to be worth $150 or almost half a million dollars for every person in the USA.Who is pulling the strings via stimulus packages so the masses around the planet get entrenched into even more spiralling debt? They are still pumping more money into the Global Banksters so they can prop up their pyramid ponsy debt scams.

The whole fiasco is an elaborate con that will see the destruction of the middle classes in the West.Do the sums yourself.

The really big collapse is just around the corner.Obama and the US Fed have have just added fuel to the fire!

The once God fearing nation was greatly blessed by God. They sent many missionaries who died making other people's lives better. Unfortunately the people sold out to the secularist over the last 50 years or so and are now reaping the fruit of such stupidity. One would of thought 9/11 which saw even the Democrats praying to God might have been a wake up call. Instead their current President heads down the path of destruction as he appeases terrorist and supports the slaughter of the unborn. One can see God's hand of blessing gradually coming off the US. I hope they repent before they reap the full fruit of their indulgence. We are not far behind. Part of their judgemment is the debt they can't pay back. They have a President who has spent even more than our own PM in trying to spend their way out of recession. Only those trained in economics would approve of such an idiotic strategy.

ThomasfromTecoma,

You are talking cherry picking rubbish, Thinker 2 is correct in his assertion. You might also like to look at W Virginia, Sth Carolina, Tennessee, then throw in cities like Detroit, the other half of LA and most of Miami, as well. The poverty level in these places are horribly disproportionately poor.

In fact, Yabby is correct, that the USA is like two countries. The difference between the top 20% and the bottom 55% is extraordinary.

Australia has a smaller mega rich 10-15% with the indigenous settlement dwellers being the bottom 2%. The situation of the latter is indeed a matter of national shame. The middle class in Australia is much broader as evidenced by the spread of the debt levels.

Reuters, have an interesting demographic map of the US by voting districts. They have as one of their demographic majority sources of income 'predominantly social services'. Much of Louisiana is 'poor rural' and 'predominately Social Services' and the maps history goes back before the New Orleans cyclone.

By the way Casual labour in say bars in Miami can be paid as low as $2.00 per hour, they live on their tips. The minimum wage for a farm labourer is supposed to be $9 PH, but illegals, 'wetbacks' earn about $5 PH. Capitalism is at it's exploitative best is the US.
PS their cost of groceries are marginally cheaper than here but rents can be extortionate. Surprise, surprise, I have been there but wouldn't want to live there.

In 2004 the University of California did a study on on wealth distrubution in the USA.1% owned 34% of the net worth.19 owned 50% of USA net worth,80% owned only 15% of net worth.Some 5 yrs later the reality is far more dismal and getting worse.

It is the Global Reserve Banks and their ability to create money from nothing that creates this disparity of wealth.If you do it as an individual,it is called counterfeiting.

Thank all for you thoughts. Originally I was informed of the stat I was quoting in a recent A.B.C or S.B.S. program of the situation in Louisiana. I hope it correct.

I was not wishing to offend anyone or make comparisons between Australia and the U.S.A but was motivated by the thought that a country like the U.S.A supposedly more populous, worldly, advanced, a leading nation etc, could countenance such a stat.

There's no doubt Australia's record in relation to it's own indigenous people is equally disgraceful to that of the U.S.A, but I wasn't referring to the American Indians when I made my original post nor comparing their plight with that of the Aboriginal people of Australia.

Thank for your welcome Belly, great round-up assessment examinator, themissus says it well and makes the point that there really hasn't been much change has there?, Yabby expands to the to bigger picture and Arjay points to impending economic doom and is probably right. Oh well back to the drawing board.

A stat is a stat, if it is correct? as I originally said ," it' speaks for itself doesn't it?"

Whilst the solution is obvious the misconceptions on the USA proliferate, because people opinions are influenced by those that should know better.
I would suggest that you all pack up and take a holiday to the United States
http://www.united.com/
It’s cheaper than a trip to Uluru and stays in cheaper than ozz accommodation.
Be treated like a human being instead of a meal ticket then you could go to the local
‘Deli’ and buy oranges from Australia cheaper than you can from Australia but not as cheap the local product.
Then you could go to a gourmet vegetable shop and buy Aussie wine cheaper than you can buy it in oz but also get Californian wine cheaper again
Then you could buy specialty vegetable again cheaper than you could in oz.
If you need to conserve money however you could go to large supermarket and buy a gallon of milk that 4.55 liters to you ossies for $1.99 locally buy any brand of butter for 2 bucks a pound that’s 500 grams to you ossies . Then you could go to a butcher and buy local Angus beef at half price that you would pay in ozz.
Of course if you need medical assistance in the USA you wouldn’t buy a policy from the airlines associated insurers at $1100 per month you would go to the local group that sells accessory insurance a $160 a month that covers your hospital stay for $100 a day premium if you remember how medibank worked.
Then of course you would need a car to travel around in which would cost you $40 a day for say a corvette and fuel at $2.65 gallon which we paid today on filling up.
Then you have the gall say that the USA is in trouble financially, what’s around the corner from Australia then?

The trouble is a TV stat is a TV stat and moron is moron... what aggravates me is you sit back in your comfy chairs and pontificate about self created elusions when all you have to do is get off you bums nod do something. Like which one of yo self righteous yobbos donated to the bushfire relief as I did?
Your still a bunch of hypocrites as you still can’t even imagine the squalor you allow the aboriginal Australians to endure.
So think again before you produce some more BS STAT

*I would suggest that you all pack up and take a holiday to the United States*

Oh I did just that Thomas, some years ago now. In fact I went to
Louisianna, New Orleans to be precise, for the blues music, which
was amazing.

Other then that, frankly the place is a disaster. 100'000 people
a year are shot in the USA each year. My taxi driver claimed that
6 of his buddies had already died that year and it was only August.
Car jackings in the streets of New Orleans were common.

I saw some of the fattest people in the world, that I have ever
seen, many battling to walk. It seems that American food manufacturers have perfected the art of stuffing cheap ingredients
with salt, sugar and lard. Sadly they have exported this technology
and its affecting the health of many nations now. Next thing those
who don't have health insurance, can lose their house if they get
sick.

Racism in New Orleans was extreme. Just open hatred, expressed by
both sides voluntarily, I was frankly shocked, perhaps because in
all my travels, I have never experienced something similar before
and I've travelled on 4 continents.

Later on I flew right up North, things are quite different up
there.

So you can shove your bible bashing deep South, they are a primitive
lot down there.

*I would suggest that you all pack up and take a holiday to the United States*

I did also for many years ! I am Mrs International!

Read my lips yappy,
And a w888r is w888ker.
Did you donate your last 100 to the bushfire victims?
But your affluent enough go to the Louisiana for the music festival,
And what do you do get on the internet and tell us all about how you know everything about the USA. In how long 2 weeks or 1 week ?
you make laugh.

thomasfromtacoma,
Why is it that you choose to call people names?

Thinker 2 and the other members were only trying to elucidate a few thoughts on why such a statistic exits in a country like the U.S. which seems to pride itself on its record of human rights.

You would do well not to take these sort of criticisms personally - every country has its pluses and minuses - America is no different in that sense.

Sure I am all for common sense and logical and provable information, not personal bias and prejudice veiled by falsely presenting information that the gullible readily eat up.
If you want me to refute every inconceivable supposed fact I would be forever posting to this article. I shall not post until there is a t least spark of intelligence presented , not the absolute crap you ossies want pretend is factual.

thomasfromtacoma,

Like I said been there done that I've been there a 5 times for longer than a week or two. I've actually been to most of those places I mentioned. Reuters is hardly a BS organization and neither would their figures.
Albeit a few years ago but my son has been there 3 times for weeks at a time over the last two years Florida, Louisiana (not New Orleans), LA and mid west some place(I forget which) In Feb is due for a month in and around Texas starting with Houston.

I pointed out that average anything doesn't mean anything what I said is that the spread of wealth is incredibly uneven.

Who are you trying to kid about the health system in the US? Obama was elected on fixing it. That included the 45 million 6-7% without any cover. Have you seen those weekend free clinics on TV in one town in W Virginia where they had 16,000 poor people turn up because they had no other choice. Then let's think about the phamaceutical system.

If you're old or sick and you use up your allowance early you are out of pocket heaps and the drugs are much more expensive because of the fragmented negotiation system with HMOs and big Pharma's hold on the government.

So you think the US is great, you're entitled to , but at least when challenging figures compare oranges with oranges and in the same context.
Why is it when someone has more information than you, you start warbling about pontificating.
I reckon the point of discussion is to learn, something I do all the time, which I'm happy to do.
NB your stats are maybe right but don't relate to the question.

Yabby
Loved the jazz too Al's Place? or am I showing my age

Dear Thinker 2,

The US could easily eliminate absolute poverty.
In fact, if the money currently spent on federal
poverty programs were given directly to the poor,
instead of to federal and state bureaucracies,
it would raise the incomes of all the poor above
the poverty line, and still leave a surplus of
$25 billion (Daniel Seligman, "Why are people
poor," Fortune, Oct. 1, 1984).

Why, given that poverty is undesirable and that
the costs of eradicating it are so small, is this
not done? The reason lies in a pecularly American
belief: that the poor are in poverty because they
are idle and prefer to live on "handouts."

We lived and worked in the US for nine and a half
years, and found that this view is fervently held,
even by Americans who didn't know poor people,
have never tried to raise a family on welfare
payments, and haven't the vaguest idea what poverty
is really like. Opinion polls repeatedly showed
large sections of the population favouring cuts in
welfare spending or favouring plans to "make welfare
recipients go to work."

These atitudes bear little relationship to reality.
As you've pointed out - so many of welfare recipients
are children, aged people, or disabled, most of the
rest are mothers with young children, and less than
5 percent are able-bodied men, most of them unskilled
workers in areas of high unemployment. But there's
other myths: that welfare recipients are mostly
black (according to the polls nearly two-thirds are
white); that they have many children (most have two or
fewer), that they are on welfare indefinitely (most
receive welfare for less that two years) and that
welfare is a terrible burden on the taxpayer (welfare
represents 2 percent of the federal budget).
(Ian Robertson, "Sociology.").

CONT'D...

Why do these myths about the poor exist?
Ian Robertson tells us that "the ideology
that legitimates stratification in the US
holds that everyone has the same chance
to get ahead, and that inequality provides
rewards for personal effort. Most Americans
believe that the class system 'shows what
people made of their opportunities.' If those
who get ahead can claim credit for their
success, then those who fall behind must, logically
be blamed for their failures..."

The poor are therefore supposed to need incentives
to work, rather than help at the expense of the
taxpayer.

There are few complaints however about how the US
pays out far more in "handouts" to the nonpoor
than to the poor - in forms ranging from farmers'
agricultural price supports, to students' federally
subsidized loans and grants.

Robertson tells us that "Over the generations, the
human population has constructed castes and classes in
society... Like other stratification systems, social
class in the US arises out of specific historical and
social conditions. Since social stratification is socially
constructed it must, in principle, be socially modifiable
as well - provided only that people are conscious of
their own ability to change what they have created..."

Therefore whether they preserve, modify, or change the
system as it exists in the US is ultimately up to the
voters (people) themsleves.

I wouldn't hold my breath...

Foxy the system is not up to the voters.True democracy does not exist in the USA or here.

We exist in a system of corporate facism.
see "Fall of the Republic" youtube

If you want to stop poverty,then take the power of money creation away from the private banks.It is they who create inflation hence the depreciation of our money.

I often find my self in trouble for it, but I like America and Americans.
Not the Tomas fromtacoma America, not the Fox channel one.
Not the one that says poor are poor because they want to be.
I love the America that spent big money to rebuild other country's after ww2.
That still sends its youth, not armed with weapons but help to other country's.
I understand different times different people but cringe at the America /Australia that did so much harm to its native people.
But cringe too at the jingoism , blindness, my country right or wrong, defend at all costs, even from truth from Americans like tomasfrom Tacoma.
Yes I know, I understand, without America and its dead or dieing soldiers we may be slaves.
A truly great country, like ANY other it has some awful people does it not tom?

The truth is there has always been too much poverty in the US. That is the truth. It is so very easy to check via statistics and pure numbers.

The reason we need to acknowledge this is because we are headed down the same path.

It has nothing to do with the US. The poor American has been brainwashed to believe they are still better off than living in any other country. As they cannot afford to visit any other country they never learn the truth.

@ Thomas

Your comparison of US and AU debt is flawed. AU debt includes Medicare and Social Security obligations and US debt does not! Let me make that clearer for you. The federal responsibility for it healthcare funding, age and disability pensions do not form a part of the US debt declared, even though healthcare and social security are indeed debts! Therefore, the per person debt comparison you have shown is wrong.

I am also uncomfortable with your stereotypical treatment of Aboriginals as a collective welfare case, when in fact they are not. You may not like to hear this, but most, and by that I mean the majority, of Aboriginals are getting on with their lives as productive and involved citizens. It is the few, for complex reasons, that let down the many within Aboriginal communities. And whilst it is true that a comparison between mainstream and aboriginal culture would see distorted statistical variants that do not favor the Aboriginals, it is unreasonable from such a comparison to stereotype all Aboriginals into that statistical mould.

Finally, there is nothing wrong with putting US black poverty into the spotlight as has been done with the opening post. Australians may learn something from the exploration of the subject. There may be cultural similes we can make. But whilst you brow beat the person who wants a discussion on this matter whilst hand wringing over the aboriginals, you shut your eyes to the deeper issues of power and poverty in general.

OH pluueze, don’t tell me you haven’t checked your sources accuracy thinker2
“Originally I was informed of the stat I was quoting in a recent A.B.C or S.B.S. program of the situation in Louisiana. I
Hope it correct”
You only hope it correct? Quoting from memory no doubt.
Damn and I sooo sure you were right. (That’s me being facetious in case you need it spelt out.)
Themissus
And? I bet I have spent more time in ozz than you have totally OS.
Yabby you’re so full of it, it’s beginning to reek,
Wow I am impressed that means 5 trip to the USA and lived there how long and gone to NEARLY all the places mentioned, but of course you know someone that has. Sure you do!
Personally, and this is just my opinion of course, I would be too embarrassed to backup such absolute garbage re thinker s article, without joking of course.
And now for belly
You make yappy sound positively intelligent. Perhaps you might point out my jingoism if you really know what that means.
Blindness, my country right or wrong, defends at all costs, even from truth, not the Fox channel one.
Not the one that says poor is poor because they want to be.
I am an Australian by birth and don’t believe I have stated anywhere the USA is anywhere near perfect, as you mistakenly think Australia is. Yet we have the blind faith brigade led by ignorance fed BS, that people like you proliferate and the pig ignorant lap up.
Now don’t tell me you’ve been to the USA also, as your well traveled comrades so enthusiastically quote. The problem is here you couldn’t tell a jingoist from a jingle.
Btw I am still waiting for that copy of your constitution, but don’t worry about the bill of rights its laying somewhere with the referendum on democracy results no doubt.

Examinator, Reuters is a news organization; you know the ones that SELL the story. Oh it’s got to be true cos I read it on Reuters! Duh!
Have you been to Port Augusta or Goodiwindi in your monumental worldly travels? I doubt it; otherwise you would have seen the utter prejudice and disdain that Australians hold the Aboriginal.
Bigotry I think so!
And I doubt there’s one of you that can’t quote some such stat about American Africans but I don’t see anyone jumping to the defense of the Australian Aborigine. Strange that huh?
Just of course conveniently forgetting you took their country away from them around the time the USA as fighting or the African Americas rights. e.g. The best most arable land and now the most productive mineral wealth. And before you throw in the American Indian argument you better check they’re not part of the “now infamous 45% that is below the poverty level”.
Have you by any chance seen the $5 million worth of temporary accommodation the NT has locked up? I have!
So much for your egalitarian ideals, or should I say the pathetic attitude to the Australian Aboriginals plight.
But of course that’s not your fault it’s the Nazis running the show right?
So tell me where the oranges are lemons with the aboriginal problems and the ABYSMAL conditions they endure, in Australia, compared to the so called poverty line that African American fails to meet?
Where there’s no representation as in the Police PP style of crime management that is no different to the Nazis in ww2.
The USA has a bill of rights that allows for political change to occur, not the fascist status Quo that exists in Australia. FACT not opinion!
Your country that went to a referendum to see whether it NEEDED a democracy! FACT not opinion!
Now that’s joke on monumental scale! Not only did you bumpkins hold a referendum to decide whether you needed a democracy you voted it out!! . FACT not opinion

When you have to have the capability to change you might then qualify to criticize another countries politics.
Voting isn’t compulsory in the USA that means we don’t get by on donkey vote like Australia, we actually care to vote.
Local government does the largest amount of work in the states not I the backhanded gimme a dollar for my junket to investigate the truth that Bali’s hotels are better than Australia’s manipulation of the council powers, prevalent in oz.
Local council is televised to ensure that everything’s above board. You know like transparency of government.
When a bill is accepted it goes to the people for ratification, not the immediate rush it through parliament during the 44 days a year that they sit, and then tack every other unpopular law with it they can.
You want change in Australia?
you will be holding your breath longer than I. FACT not opinion!

America has its own special problems, these problems are embedded in their own constitution. Not even Obama can fix the problems they face.
Low wages for afros; well that is up to their employer to address, but people being people that won't happen.
The forfront of American problems is being to free. They can not make laws that even out, the difference between black and white wages. It's against the constitution.
They didn't think black Americans would ever be free people at the time of making the constitution.

We must not be upset by tomasfromtacoma, like others he comes here loaded for bear, to insult and shout.
See no one in real life will stay long in conversation, just walking away.
We are his/her captured audience, we bound by manners, and intent on open discussion are fuel for the fire.
Say something controversial bloke, we can then have an augment.
Well no, we cannt, not worth the effort.

Sociologist Ian Robertson in his text, "Sociology,"
offers the following facts:

"Blacks are unique among minorities in that
they came to the US as slaves and were denied
basic civil rights until the 1960s."

"Moreover, they have traditionally been a people
of the rural South who began to migrate to large
cities, mostly in the North, only a generation or so
ago."

"Blacks have thus been isolated from the economic
mainstream for most of their history in the US, and
in this sense are relatively "recent," unskilled
immigrants to the industrialized areas of the nation."

"But, unlike immigrants earlier in this century, blacks
arrived at a time when the manufacturing base of the
cities was disappearing as some blue-collar jobs
vanished altogether and others were relocated to the
suburbs. Informal barriers, such as racial prejudice
and a lack of skills, kept most of the new arrivals
from the opportunities beyond the ghetto."

Robertson says:

"Despite the success of many blacks, the great majority
have been left behind, and a hard core of these form
an 'underclass' of impoverished people who have little
hope that their lives will ever improve...almost one-third
of all blacks live below the poverty line - a rate three
times that of the white population. Many are trapped in an
unending cycle of broken homes, welfare, joblessness,
violence, crime, and drug abuse. Half of the black births
in the US today are to unmarried women. One in every two
black children lives in poverty, and one in every two
lives in a home without a father. one in six black males
is arrested by the age of nineteen, and homicide is
the leading cause of death of black males between the
ages of fifteen and nineteen. Unemployment rates for
blacks are typically double those of whites, and in some
urban areas the rate for black teenagers is over 50 percent..."

All this presents a very different picture to the
proclaimed ideals of the US, as Thinker 2 stated in his
opinion post, the facts speak for themselves.

These facts remain a powder keg in the society's future.

Tom from tecoma

Yes to both, those even more recent than to 'the states'. Port Agutta as the locals call it, Wilcania and Alice in all three the prejudice is both palpable and absolutely shameful, as is the conditions.

I most certainly can and have waxed critical to the appalling state of the aborigines. If you check some of my posts on *relevant* topic I have done so there , at length. in fact I was very involved in getting voting rights for them in the late sixties.

I wasn't attacking you or US merely stating facts. Given what I saw of the country and particularly what I've read, what my son has said I'm in no hurry to move to places like rural Louisiana.

The original post was merely stating a fact not criticising the country per se.
If you have a desire to put up a critical topic of Australia , providing it's factually correct I'll comment.

I'm not that crazy about some places in Australia either(again several of my posts have said so and explained why).

NB I am in no way jingoistic. There are good and bad in every country. To me there are too many negative of the type that bother me in the US to want to migrate there.

thomasfromtacoma,

<You know like transparency of government>.
Is that like the transparency of the Democrat controlled US congress where trillion dollar stimulus bills get rammed through at 1am Sunday morning by people who haven't read it, let alone understood its implications.
FACT not opinion!

<When a bill is accepted it goes to the people for ratification>
Like the 2000 page Obamacare bill, which is opposed by the majority of people according to all the polling.
When the 2000 page healthcare bill scraped through congress only because of the Stupak amendment (219-215 where the Democrats hold 258 to the Republicans 177), Harry Reid immediately stripped it from the Senate version. This bill is about as far removed from being ratified by the people as is possible.
FACT not opinion!

<not the immediate rush it through parliament>
refer above

<then tack every other unpopular law with it they can.>
You mean like the U.S. federal hate crimes bill which was was tacked onto a defence bill so that if it didn't get passed the troops wouldn't get funding.
FACT not opinion!

The US probably has one of the best systems of government in the world but it is fast being subverted by Obama and his radical, tax-cheating cronies.
Opinion based on facts!

but what herman fails to explain is that even an ozzie can see where the democratic process is working not the behind closed doors procedure that the ozzy governmtn abuses to teh nthdegree and in caseyou haventread my othe post herewstheref tot the famous ozzy constitution that evryone thinks they have !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_constitution

The Constitution of Australia is the supreme law under which the Australian Commonwealth Government operates. It consists of several documents. The most important is the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Australia. The Constitution was approved in referendums held over 1898 – 1900 by the people of the Australian colonies, and the approved draft was enacted as a section of the Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act 1900 (Imp), an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom.
The Commission of Assent was signed by Queen Victoria on 9 July 1900, upon which the Constitution became law. The Constitution came into force on 1 January 1901. Even though the Constitution was originally given legal force by an Act of the United Kingdom parliament, the Australia Acts removed the power of the United Kingdom parliament to change the Constitution, and only the Australian people can amend it (by referendum).
Other pieces of legislation have constitutional significance for Australia. These are the Statute of Westminster, as adopted by the Commonwealth in the Statute of Westminster Adoption Act 1942, and the Australia Act 1986, which was passed in equivalent forms by the Parliaments of every Australian state, the United Kingdom, and the Australian Federal Parliament. Together, these Acts had the effect of severing all constitutional links between Australia and the United Kingdom. Even though the same person, Queen Elizabeth II, is the monarch of both countries, she acts in a distinct capacity as monarch of each.
No wonder the government hides it from the world as if it doesn’t exist. IT DOESN’T!
So go to the queen of Australia with your bitches and complaints. I am just stating FACTS not personal opinion related to some meager comprehension of what exists. I am still hissing myself about the democracy referendum result.

Now that tomfromtacoma has calmed down he correctly points out, that we don't really have a constitution or more precisely "A Bill of Rights". In fact "the argument in Australia has been whether we actually need one or not".

What's interesting about this, is historical. The modern Australian that we imagine ourselves to be was originally born of the Eureka uprising which was effectively a rebellion against authority. The poor and downtrodden managed to claw their way out from under the Union Jack temporarily but not much changed and most of it's conventions remain. This is why today's Aust Flag represents a compromise with the UJ in the top right hand corner. I think todays Ozzies still retain a healthy mistrust of authority and/or the symbols of authority (like flags etc) deep down even today.

I think we do need a bill of rights tom and others. Apathy is our problem. It's part of our historical paradigm to let the dust settle and wait to see what happens. We've been doing this since Eureka and the dust has been settling for about 150 yrs. We haven't even started to think about what rights we would have in our country have we?. History has it's effect on the future.

The American right to bear arms is most probably born of the American Civil War. Would it be correct to suggest that a lot of Americans (back when their constitution was born) felt that it was wise to mistrust each other and possibly even now feel in their own historical paradigm that Govt can govern as long as they can individually bear arms and have the protection of a bill guarantee-ing their individual civil rights .

I mention this not to compare or criticize but to pose the question, "Would we have a right to bear arms in our constitution/bill of rights?. Would we feel the need to bear arms or not?

Peter Hume
From the ridiculous to the absurd hey peter
And to thinker2
So you ADMIT what I was saying about your research into the post that’s now turned into a political correct behavior proposition. Claims that YOU didn’t check out are correct, thanks for that.
A retraction is in order I think. Roflmao.
And if you read the constitution carefully (IF indeed you can read? you can it on disc book if need be) the 2 amendment right bear arms 1791 was for militia and the protection of the personal property in time of conflict. Which when you consider the period it was written was appropriate. That’s if you want to wax lyrical about history. That’s during time 1850 odd where the white Americans were fighting a civil war for the rights of the black Americans. Something I have yet seen in Australia the pent up feeling that country would go to civil war about black right.
But just to clarify your insinuation that I am a pro gun lobbyist I aint.
And just to clarify the Australian law doesn’t work, in that guns used for crime m are now isolated to the criminals and police (although I gotta admit it’s difficult to tell them apart in oz). The recent gun armistice, god how many do we need? After the government wasted so much money disguised as a Medicare levy. Real democratic process that huh.
That the confidence in the SAPD is 10% pro 90% against and reported crime in oz is 30% compared to 21 % here.

And that the feeling of safety in oz is 62 % compared to 82 % here in the USA if you want to quote stats that can be VERIFIED.
But all you want someone to massage your brunt ego, rather than correct and ideological failing of the Australian government.
You see you problem is you can’t admit your wrong about a little thing like the UN- Australian constitution (amongst others), so you rant and rave about everything but the truth, which is all I am after. Someone who will actually think about what my criticisms are not wear handle that says so, as you do.
So please explain if you can the result s of referendum 1967. And when you do explain it that w999ker Hume, so I don’t have to bother reading these ridiculous attempts to entrap a personal opinion.
Whitewash that about the democracy referendum again. ROFLMAO

thomasfromtacoma,

I would like to apologise on behalf of my fellow Ozzies here. You are right - it seems they that rather than make you feel welcome here on our quintessential Australian political chat site, they have gone out of their way to argue with you. Sadly they often take the Australian penchant for free, open and honest debate to such raucous levels outsiders have trouble for seeing it for what it is.

This is not good. You have shown us what polite, well mannered, quietly persuasive, and self defacing people you Yankees really are. They should be thanking you.

But as they haven't, allow me to do so now - Thank You.

Well thank you rstuart for the deep and heartfelt apology. Reminds me of the scene in saving Private Ryan when Tom Hanks says similar. More over its says lot for the aussie power for forgiveness being such god created beings of course that they can forgive this Australian born American. Just warms the heart god dang it. Still hissing myself over the democracy referendum though.

Thinker “Whilst an improvement( in stats) on the position of A.A's 200 years ago, it is not dissimilar in terms of opportunity for progress, for at least 45% of the children mostly of rural workers of Louisiana.”

Oh that is terrible

Horrendous

American poverty must be the worst thing on earth

It is a clear sign of the failings of capitalism

Until one considers

Poverty in India

Poverty in the former USSR and its satellites

Poverty in Mexico

The poverty of Africa

The poverty of many Asian countries

If American “poverty” is so terrible – why are so many people from all around the world signing up to join through both legal “green card” schemes and illegal boat landing and night-smuggling schemes?

Maybe they feel that “American poverty” will be so much better than the poverty they already know.

tomfromtacoma misconstrues my latest proposition/response to his earlier post as admissions or retraction regarding the truth or otherwise of my original post.

ColRouge makes the point well that people from the third world countries would still prefer living in America to their own poverty, and thank you rstuart for the chuckles.

The stat I originally quoted in my original post was part of the content of a TV program screened by either ABC or SBS, both highly regarded as credible public sources of information here.

The point I am making thinker2 s that stats are not facts and I your case they’re positively dubious.
A fact is something that indisputable in that it has occurred, not the government mouth piece you hold in high regard. just shows that you’re as thick as you are in error.
http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/
Try this for a credible, but still OPINIONATED link from the ABC and see how many retractions they come up with.
And the SBS is far worse in terms of reporting track record and journalistic accuracy.
Whereas I have quoted indisputable facts e.g.
The referendum on a democracy results for instance
The 2 amendment to the American constitution
The civil war that Americans fought for the liberation of the black man which I note you haven’t commented on.
I haven’t seen any ozzie war for black liberty. Yet England banned slavery first well before the United States. So why hasn’t the Australian aborigine got full citizen rights?
The constitution that allows Somalian to come in under political protection and become an Australian citizen, yet an aboriginal still can’t vote? See referendum 1967! That you actually went to referendum and VOTED out the aborigine’s right to vote is denied. The USA has a bill of rights that says
“All citizens regardless of race color or religion “which I would daresay is downright unconstitutional l in ozz. You make me laugh
It’s an irrefutable fact, and no doubt ground to take the Australian government to court over.
The plain facts are that the ozzie constitution is a collection of ad hoc decisions to cover political stuff ups , simply no more than bunch of bigots and clowns you elect to do your conscience work for you.
Why because your all bigots that why!
We don’t need democracy big sars.
First you need cerebral an enem