This is my 3000th post on OLO, 1500 of which are article comments and 1500 general comments.

So I thought it might be an appropriate time for me to say toodle loo, see you round, chow and bye bye and move on to other things.

But first I’d like to ask a bunch of questions:

How effective is this forum?

What are us participants achieving?

Is it helping to facilitate the views of ordinary people in reaching the decision-makers and influencing policy direction?

Or is it effectively waylaying people and causing them to spend their time expressing themselves in a place where their comments won’t be read, rather than bothering politicians or bureaucrats more directly?

Does it have entertainment or social networking value?

Is OLO the right place for people like me to express their deep concerns and put forward ideas?

Is its significance being diluted or is it expanding as its reputation as the most eminent online debating forum for social and political debate becomes better known?

What do all you good OLO contributors think?

This sort of theme has been broached before. But with the rapidly increasing number of avenues for people to have an input online, with arguably the worst Federal government now in power that we’ve ever seen and with a whole series of ominous factors bearing down on us such as population overload, climate change, peak oil, etc, I think it could be valuable to solicit an update of opinions.

BTW, I won’t be leaving this forum any time soon. I think that it is very much worthwhile spending numerous hours on it each week ( :>)

Some things are worthwhile and others are not.
There are to many pro against govt; comments here.
Which of course adds up to nothing. I believe that whatever govt' is in power comments should be constructive and not commented on like a football match.

Ludwig a good thread starter, do not go away, please.
Desmond sorry we differ, say it as you think, honesty is the best policy always.
I Ludwig do not wish to return to that thread, the one you said you could not understand my post, read it again.
However that slap at C J Morgan?
Do you understand why I find far less wrong with him than you do?
Bloke I know he is very much a green voter, and you know I proudly am from Labors center unity faction.
But time and again I have seen him slandered just for giving an opinion.
I have no barrow to push for the bloke but find less wrong than in others.
One simple statement, if we follow Desmond's lead, tell lies rather than offend we may as well close the forum down, free speech is a freedom we can measure our selfs by.
I have concerns at actions on both sides of the house, in NSW the whole building seems inhabited by useless beggars.
I am a Rudd fan, but find issues to concern me, with him and his deputy.
To debate politics we must be free to have our own opinions right or wrong it is every ones right to make a fool of himself.

Ludwig ,I've never looked.Wishing you all the best.Adios Amigos.

Adds new meaning to the term 'numerically challenged', Ludwig. I congratulate you on a topic that cannot be mis-spelled.

Who would have thought such equality of expression in the respective areas of the Forum could have arisen without contrivance? But even were contrivance to have been involved, what skill to have arrived at such a benchmark on time and even-handedly! Barely believable, but believe it we must for there it is before our eyes. Proof:

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/user.asp?id=22800&show=history

And, freezing it in time, http://twitpic.com/qukk2

To think that only hours ago (well, days, if you must) the best Ludwig could offer in response to a challenge as to how many times he had posted, or submitted, in certain respects, was 'many'. See: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=3238#76851

Just shows who does real research, and who does not, doesn't it? Hides his light under a botanical bushell does our Ludwig, does he not? (Then again, what, other than botanical, is a 'bushell' measure? It goes against the grain to think otherwise, does it not? Someone has to draw the Cv Linne, don't they? One of the two certainties, taxa, isn't it (or aren't they, as the case may be)?) Apart from death, that is.

In answer to 'how effective is this Forum etc ?', we cannot be sure, but when questions effectively asked here get answered elsewhere on other fora, one could be forgiven for thinking some notice is taken of these threads.

And, lest Ludwig be inclined to think me to be unduly loquacious, be it known that he would be right: having just recovered from a virtually direct lightning strike on my computer, with the robustness of Ubuntu Linux and an installation of Ubuntu 8.04 on an el cheapo second-hand Dell Optiplex GX520, I'm back up and away! And I've had a couple of celebratory drinks to boot, as they say in the world of geeks and computerdom, where they like boots.

Bang on the word limit!

Ludwig

<< This is my 3000th post on OLO, 1500 of which are article comments and 1500 general comments. >>

Ah ha, so that's why you didn't reply to my recent double post addressed especially to you. You didn't want to upset your neat little numbers as you neared your milestone! And here was I thinking it was because I had you stumped. Silly me. :)

I have no idea how effective this forum is as far as getting our opinions out there. The thing I like though is the quick response. If you write to a politician you'll be lucky to receive a reply, and if you do it's usually so far down the track that you've almost forgotten you've written. And then it's likely to be heavy on spin and light on substance. If you write to a paper you're likely to be heavily edited and won't always see much in the way of feedback. Here at least you mostly get a response from someone.

I find OLO a relaxing diversion. Being the opinionated type, it's good to be able to have a say on issues I consider important. Whether it goes any further or not doesn't particularly bother me. I think any time you share your ideas with others, you're impacting on their thinking to some extent, even if they completely disagree with you.

Congratulations, Ludwig, on the big 3000. Hopefully, you'll stick around for another thousand or so. The place would be much poorer without you. :)

Cheers Belly and Arjay.

I’m not going to leave OLO.

….
Forrest, old buddy, thanks for immortalising those numbers in a twitpick. Good one. A couple of celebratory drinks and a lightning strike to the back of the head eh? No wonder you are particularly loquacious this evening!! ( :>0

….
“You didn't want to upset your neat little numbers as you neared your milestone!”

Bronwyn, the numbers were almost natural. I only had to keep them on track over the last two days. Pity that such a beautiful set of numbers is now corrupted by this post !!

“Congratulations, Ludwig, on the big 3000. Hopefully, you'll stick around for another thousand or so. The place would be much poorer without you. :)”

Much appreciated. Thanks. And congrats on reaching 1000 posts three days ago.

Sorry if some find what i say as offensive.
But i am not going to tell lies to suite anyone.
I say it as i see it, and nothing is going to change that.
Some peoples opinions are just that. Without a constructive word to be seen.
All of these off site references, are someone elses opinion, which does not mean a thing, some scientific reference is good.
Have a good day.

Pretty fundamental questions, Ludwig, thanks for asking.

>>How effective is this forum?<<

I am not sure that its function is to be "effective" at anything except providing a scribble-space.

>>What are us participants achieving?<<

Don't know about others, but I pop in pretty much every day, to get a broader view on what people are thinking about widely different subjects. It's like an extended yarn in the pub, with whole lot of folk from different walks of life throwing in their pennyworth. Endlessly interesting, and useful to keep tabs on the "will of the people".

>>Is it helping to facilitate the views of ordinary people in reaching the decision-makers and influencing policy direction?<<

I doubt that, very much.

It might occasionally make individual people such as me aware of issues that might otherwise have passed them by. But influence policy? Don't think so.

>>is it effectively waylaying people and causing them to spend their time expressing themselves in a place where their comments won’t be read, rather than bothering politicians or bureaucrats more directly?<<

That's just being cynical. In fact, I suspect that people who spend time here honing and refining their thoughts and arguments would be more, rather than less, likely to "bother" politicians

>>Does it have entertainment or social networking value?<<

Entertainment, certainly. Social networking though, not at all, as contributors are anonymous.

>>Is OLO the right place for people like me to express their deep concerns and put forward ideas?<<

Only if it feels right. For some, it is good therapy to see their "deep concerns" replayed to them in print.

And all ideas, crazy or mundane, deserve to be put forward and exposed to daylight.

>>Is its significance being diluted or is it expanding as its reputation as the most eminent online debating forum for social and political debate becomes better known?<<

Significance or otherwise doesn't matter a damn, I suspect, to the individual contributor.

It's a place where we can think out loud, and get some feedback.

And to get ourselves comfortable with the fact that we are individuals, with one voice amongst many.

You inspire me to keep going, Ludwig!
This is only my 173rd in my first year, and I've often doubted the use of it.
But in brighter mental climes I'm convinced of OLO's edify effects, if not its effectiveness.
By edifying, I mean that OLO supports and encourages colloquies on diverse issues of importance and human trivia, in the process devolving language and interpersonal skills upon its denizens. Though we interact remotely, the forum encourages this development. It seems to me that most of the long-term devotees to the medium in time evolve enhanced skills in debating and representing themselves; more importantly yet, in cultivating personae that are greeted cordially, affectionately or brusquely as the case may be, so that a social-evolutionary process begins with each new member's stumbling advent.
My own noviciate statements early on, and even latterly, have on occasion been lacking in these graces; more accurately, the persona, half formed, has suffered the random abuses of he who must be obeyed, and so been misrepresented (for this, I sincerely apologise, Squeers).
Given time, OLO appears to breed urbane manners, wit or charm in the crudest of doppelgangers that once stalked and halted, unfinished, among the intertext.
At this point, far distant for me I fear, the respective Creator must fashion herself a new caricature, one who can strut the stage uninhibited by fear or favour. For good representation and gentility always come at a price!
On OLO's effectiveness? I shall have more to say.

its interesting to read people dont read the full posts

so i will reply to a few selections

quote],,,<<How effective is this forum?>>.clearly it has great amusment value...but i feel its educative...and a great place to meet as equals...thanks to fair moderation

What are us participants achieving?...we manage to pass the day..with challanging thoughts an opinions...its not about achievment...but exchanging facts/vieuw's...and lol...opinions

<<Is it helping to facilitate the views of ordinary people..in reaching the decision-makers and influencing policy direction?>>

no...

the few polititions/public servants..i have met here..are fixed in stone...mainly intent in bolstering their point

<<waylaying people and causing them to spend their time expressing themselves in a place where their comments won’t be read,>>>

of course its hard to know..who is reading and why...but rest assured the secuirity agencies lap up every word....some must surface somewhere near..the powers that were

<<rather than bothering politicians or bureaucrats more directly?>>.

yes a good point...but we dont have much lobbying here
and accesing them..has gotten a bit complicated

<<Does it have entertainment or social networking value?>>>both[and then some]

<<Is OLO the right place for people like me to express their deep concerns and put forward ideas?>>not sure about you...but for me it beats sitting overnight waiting for the bris/sydney train...7 am in the morning...after leaving the canberra train previojus day at 3 pm,



<<Is its significance being diluted>>>thats presuming significance...its not a science[wrong egsamplr]..its not a math journal...its opinion...i find so often its a fact free zone

<<or is it expanding as its reputation..as the most eminent online debating forum for social/and political debate...becomes better known?>>...i believe in the end...we get as we give...and not banning people with divergent[or strange vieuws]...i feel it grows...as more have a little faith...and open up

Thanks for the thoughtful responses to my questions Pericles. This is very good feedback, from one who has been on this forum for a long time.

Nicely written Squeers. I’m pleased to have given you some inspiration.

Good comments one under god. Cheers.

Ah Ludwig, I might have presented slightly more posts than you but that in no way diminishes the merit of your effort.

Of all the posters here you are one for whom I have a permanent respect and certainly one who I would like to chew over worldly affairs (and its a couple of beers) with someday.

We have disagreed on many things (although the one big thing.. people numbers, we are in full agreement on) but you have never been initiated an ad hominine attack, for which I am grateful and respectful.

It pleased me to know you will be endeavouring to add to the number of future posts… maybe revisit this particular topic when you reflect on 6,000 posts

Cheers

CR

"Some peoples opinions are just that. Without a constructive word to be seen.
All of these off site references, are someone Else's opinion, which does not mean a thing, some scientific reference is good.
Have a good day.
Posted by Desmond, Thursday, 26 November 2009 7:07:20 AM"

My reference posts are not opinion but backed by solid verifiable evidence so I recon they count for something
especially since the evidence is written in Legislation of the Government, verifiable by the universe.

"It might occasionally make individual people such as me aware of issues that might otherwise have passed them by. But influence policy? Don't think so."

It's a proven fact that one person can make a difference. even being made aware of an issue has a domino effect.
'The fluttering of one butterfly in a rainforest' to coin a phrase

"the few politicians/public servants..i have met here..are fixed in stone...mainly intent in bolstering their point"

Everyone has an alternative agenda - mine is to light a fuse of logical evaluation, then hope someone will' blow the whistle and yell fire in the hold before the situation implodes'
No matter what the issue, because people are basically logical in their own minds, someone in a corrupt system will eventually reveal all [ just like the ETS and it's complete scam ].

Things to think about in Brisbane
'http://thadeus-sez.blogspot.com/'

Wonderful stuff Col. It is posts like this that really do make me feel as though old OLO has got a lot going for it.

I’ll remember your kind words the next time I feel a bit depressed about not getting anywhere with my great concerns – population growth and sustainability, or the next time our mutual pain in the backside, CJ Morgan, levels his trade-mark insults at me just out of the blue!

….
Pepper, I see that have been a very occasional poster on this forum for a long time. Do you post elsehwere? Can you give us a comparison between OLO and any other sites?

Aaaargh. The confounded missing word syndrome strikes again.

This is one of the bad things about OLO: you can’t easily deal with errors that despite religious proof-reading and spell and grammar checking before posting, just keep damn well ‘appenin’! Grrrr.

That should have read;

Pepper, I see that YOU have been a very occasional poster…..

Wow good effort Ludwig.

As you know I share your concerns about population and sustainability and I think there is growing support so don't be disheartened. However, at worst, the way of things is sometimes chaos happens before people react - we are not always pro-active beings.

As for the impact of OLO - I couldn't say. I know as a public servant articles on OLO do get distributed around if they are relevant to a particular policy area so that is something. The Government is pretty big on monitoring the media so maybe OLO makes a small blip towards gauging public perceptions and opinions.

Whether the comments from the users rate anything with our fearless leaders who knows.

Glad to hear you are staying around. You have always been a polite, friendly and thoughtful poster.

What effect does OLO have?
Presumably we all want reform of some kind--those who don't must like things just the way they are, and I doubt there are many so contented.
In my view OLO is not only useless when it comes to the genuine reforms we need, it actually helps to entrench the status quo.
Our system is such that it will accommodate a great deal, gradually, thereby creating an illusion that we're progressive. Society's mores and norms are sacred, after all, and cannot be "seen" to be too flexible. How magnanimous of society, then, to be gradually bestowing equality status on women, gays, ethnic groups and children.
How sacred were those mores of yore? Who or what is this feckless lawgiver we esteem so highly, who vacillates so freely on our petite bourgeois "values"; who outrages and patronises at once, and accommodates both; whose grinning winning ways are perennially resented and reconciled?
OLO is this process in the lab, which allows the policy-makers to pre-empt the next push, and so maintain the illusion.
OLO is the exercise yard, where we work-out and puff ourselves up with discourse; where we conspire and collude and kid ourselves.
It's the ultimate panopticon that patronises us and informs policy all at once.
OLO provides quality data.
I'm trying to see a positive; can anyone help me?
Will be away for a few days now but the question as to OLO's effectiveness is an important issue ... ?
P.S. The Marxist terminology is there as an irritant for those who deserve it, and not my pigeon-hole :-)

3143 1535 1608!

Ripping along!

Oh the obsessiveness. When am I going to get a life??

Well, at least I’m not as mad as CJ Morgan –

3766 1373 2393…

and he’s been on this forum for a considerably shorter time!

( :>)