http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8356570.stm

The general who won the civil war in Sri Lanka has resigned one of the issues was he wanted a big peace time army.
His pride (he was promoted from the general in charge to head of military services) and nationalist fervor (pro Sinhalese), his apparent pride in his military skills, and his 18 moth early retirement are clear indicators that he may challenge the current President.

My concern is that as a General with high loyalty are we looking at a military dominated government or yet another Coupe?

So what? More refugees. What do you think Australia ought to do if anything ABOUT THE SITUATION IN Sri Lanka (not the refugees0.

What should Australia do?

Nothing. It is a democracy.

Fair enough you don't bother to punctuate or even proof read your posts for missing words and letters, but you could at least make an effort for new topics.

examinator

<< What do you think Australia ought to do if anything ABOUT THE SITUATION IN Sri Lanka >>

Firstly, I think the Australian Government needs to do what it can to ensure the Sri Lankan Government closes the concentration camps, and allows the Tamils held in them to go back to their homes without fear of persecution. We should sever trade and diplomatic links to get the message across if needs be.

Secondly, we need to urge the Rajapaksa Government to allow NGOs and media sources free access to the camps to monitor conditions there.

Thirdly, we should accept our fair share of the Tamil refugees, for whom their homeland is still an unsafe place to be.

And Lastly, Australia should permanently end the practice of selling arms to the Sri Lankan Government.

Houellebecq

Glad to see you digging deep and contributing so much to the discussion.

Bronny,

a) The topic is boring, and this guy just posts 3 topics a day and doesn't have the courtesy to even read them once before posting, or bother to make them readable. At least he didn't end this one with the pompous and arrogant ... 'discuss'.

b) All your 'solutions' are in the 'tell im 'es dreamin' category. Alternatively they could be put in the 'write a really nasty letter' category.

c) I am under zero obligation to add any sort of 'contribution' to the topic

Bronwyn, Rather imperialistic of you.

No one was allowed in our screening camps in Iraq (not concentration camps,no need for propoganda) So you are saying, do as we say, not as we do?

There is no evidence Sri Lanka is a dangerous place to be except if you are a terrorist. All evidence of past repatriation is that returned Tamils have been treated fairly according to the UN.

Media sources have visited the camps, please be up to date. Though why didn't we have journalist in Iraq? They could never even get past the airport.

Most importantly what evidence is there of current danger to Tamils? They are actually safer then than under the murderous LTTE rule that gave them nothing in infrastructure, education, standard of living or even enough food and stole children.

We should sever trade agreements? what do you want to do, cause a war? Please never ever go into politics. Punish poor workers. Crikey mean spirited, ignorant and diplomatically suicidal. Also sounds like you have read the LTTE website.

The people of Sri Lanka has a right to feel safe after the highest rate of suicide bombings against civilians in history. Screening camps are necessary and NORMAL. Up my way people were complaining the reaction of the cyclone was not quick enough with no fresh water and houses left roofless years later and that lasted a few hours. The suicide rate, the depression, the hardship. Lasted years.

Every single year roads are flooded and people are swept away. Loads of complaints on the fire situation in Victoria and we deal with internally. Do you think Sri Lanka should be butting in? Should the world stop trade with us? Imagine if we had a huge crisis if we have so many problems with some relatively smaller issues.

Honestly try to appreciate what they have been up against. the government would not be angelic but they nor is any.

Also the question was about a military man entering polticics, The Colin Powell of Sri Lanka.

Bronwyn,
Than you for your response,
When I did some diging, I discovered that there has been military government in Sri Lanka before.

The worrying thing is a general who thinks he's it and a bit interested in maintain racial correctness. (sound familiar?) Fiji comes to mind.

Contrary to common thought there are diplomatic issues we can follow.
You are right to focus on the alleged democracy there.

perhaps we could continue to stress that the Govt win the peace, instead of going on a (race) revenge hunt, forcing people to come to Aus.

NB the minister who threw out the regional UNICEF head for telling how it is for children.

Access to the camps are highly controlled and so is the media.

Add an unnecessarily large army for peace time and a general who thinks he's absolutely right all spells a possible coupe.

If that happens can we look forward to a mass Exodus?
What are our plans to cope?
Are freedom fighters who fear retribution, now they've lost the war, refugees or unwanted crims?
Remember the OPM (free West Papua) people?
What would be the difference?

H
Psst. Bronwyn is a teacher and smart I think she noticed my errors/ sloppy prose. I don't think she needs you to patronise her by repeating your disgust of the obvious.

Granted, I sent them off BC (before Coffee) a thousand pardons.I'll endeavour to do better. In the mean time I don't know if to don sack cloth and ashes or go to the naughty corner.

its 2 topics per 24 hours is all I'm allowed.

Just for you Perhaps, I'll end each topic with, a plea for contributions. "if it isn't too much of an imposition on your time and sensitive ego, could you please give me the benefit your esteemed opinion and blinding experience."

I get the point you don't like me....fair enough, I'm not happy about me either but the birth hospital insist one body/brain per customer...Damn!

Dear Examinator,

Bronwyn as always has come up with some excellent
suggestions.

I watched a Sri Lankan Government Official being
interviewed on TV the other evening. I must admit
that I wasn't very impressed. His answers were not
very satisfying.

I think its important that humanitarian access must
be given to the camps. The limited access currently
allowed is unacceptable. The Australian Government
could try to negotiate this. There must be access to
food, clean water and protection in the camps -
conditions have to improve.

The Government could also push to have people that have
been made homeless resettled as soon as possible - our
government could assist with aid in this matter and help
rebuild their lives.

Finally its important that a just peace that meets the
needs of all Sri Lankans is achieved. Although, I'm not
sure how this is going to be achieved with a military
government in power. At least our government could
express their point of view. People are leaving the
country for a reason. The economic refugee accusation
I simply don't buy.

TheMissus: "There is no evidence Sri Lanka is a dangerous place to be except if you are a terrorist."

I swear you pull more things out of your bum than a Magpie chasing tape worms.

If you look up the Wikipedia entry of Sri Lanka's civil war, you will see that for a part of Sri Lankan war was a very dangerous place for everybody there. It is true there isn't much evidence it is a dangerous place now - but only because we don't have a clue what it is like in there because there has been precisely one group of foreign journalists let in and they were given a conducted tour. Hitler gave conducted tours of his concentration camps too, you know.

If I was to hazard a guess, I say the picture you paint is probably right. But it is only a guess at this stage, and unlike you I am not so keen to risk the lives of others on the outcome of what is just a guess based on sensationalised newspaper reports.

Bronwyns politics is the impossible sort, designed to prove the democratic processes, which have evolved and been tested over centuries do not work and the only solution is her brand of revolution … the eternal type, Trotsky style , to which point the comment should be made, the only good thing Stalin did was to have Trotsky assassinated.

The left is good at defining everything and bad at doing anything

The left represents the pointless pursuit of perfect theories; which, with perfectly certainty, FAIL in practice

Foxy “People are leaving the country for a reason. The economic refugee accusation I simply don't buy.”

I have plenty of Sri Lankans among my circle of friends.

They did not arrive as refugees but by using their tested professional credentials, character references etc to apply for a permanent resident visas.

But if I were to ask any one of them they would say the economic benefits of living in Australia outweigh the economic benefits of living in Sri Lanka.

Suggesting “The economic refugee accusation” is not credible and is naïve in the extreme

or maybe you are just setting the “bar of acceptance and justification” deliberately too high, to maintain conformity with your own polemic?

Regarding the pontificators review of history, he tell us
“When I did some diging, I discovered that there has been military government in Sri Lanka before.”
Really?

I see a couple of coupe attempts in the past 60 years but no “government”, maybe you could be more specific

Just as the UK relied on military force to curb the IRA Terrorists, the Sri Lankans relied on their army to curb murders, bombings, kidnappings and torture being deployed by the unelected and unrepresentative Tamil Tigers.

Terrorists are always the first to pretend “atrocities” by the lawfully elected governments.

pontificator, history… I suggest you look up the political aspirations of the Tamils, lead by Ponnambalam, as far back as the 1930s. It does not conform with any sense of democratic representation to me and would have imposed the vile Indian “Caste” system over non-Indians.

Houellebecq

<< The topic is boring ... >>

The topic relates to a neighbouring country so badly damaged by civil war that its citizens are turning up on our doorstep.

While you're yawning, these people are struggling to survive. But hey don't let that intrude into your cosy little world.

TheMissus

<< No-one was allowed in our screening camps in Iraq (not concentration camps,no need for propoganda) So you are saying, do as we say, not as we do? >>

Your Iraq comparison is wasted on me. I wouldn't defend anything we did there, so I'm hardly likely to start defending any camps. We abused human rights there every bit as badly as they've been abused in Sri Lanka.

You can call them 'screening' camps. I'd prefer a description that comes closer to capturing the reality for the thousands of Tamils who’ve been rounded up and forced into overcrowded and squalid internment, who’ve been denied the right to return to their homes, and who’ve lived in fear of being among the hundreds dying or being killed every week. You can call my description 'propaganda' all you like. I've no agenda here. I'm only interested in conveying the same sense of reality that I've had conveyed to me by reputable sources such as Amnesty International.

<< There's no evidence Sri Lanka is a dangerous place to be except if you're a terrorist >>

Huge numbers of Tamil civilians have been in danger, though by all accounts there seems to be some hope of it easing now.

I hope you're not suggesting that the Tamil refugees, who've felt so unsafe they've had to flee their homeland, are 'terrorists'.

examinator

<< The worrying thing is a general who thinks he's it and a bit interested in maintain racial correctness. >>

Yes, I agree, a general who wants to expand the armed forces to 'keep the peace' hardly sounds like a leader capable of uniting and rebuilding the country.

Foxy and rstuart

Ditto to everything. You must be reading the same 'imperialist propaganda' that I am. :)

Or perhaps you're hellbent on 'revolution' too!

Dear Col,

I'm not suggesting the economic refugee
accusation - this came from the interview
with the Sri Lankan government official
that I saw interviewed on TV. He raised
the economic refugee scenario - which
I said I wasn't buying. I too have many
Sri Lankan friends (including my next
door neighbours) who keep me informed
(through their families in Sri Lanka).

As a leading article in today's, The Age,
Saturday, Nov. 14th 2009, tells us:

"...Many of those on the Oceanic Viking
had spoken of horrific experiences in
their homeland, while others have told
the media in written notes how they
suffered physically and emotionally during
earlier stints in Indonesian Immigration
detention...it is the detention issue that stopped
most...on board from disembarking..."

Paris Aristotle, the refugee advocate who acted
as an independent facilitator in the stand-off,
said that, "The Australians really engaged in a
very serious way. They deserve a lot of credit for
a humanitarian response." Mr Aristotle described
the Sri Lankans as "terrific people, but people who
have been through the wringer.

Dear Bronny,

With you all the way!

You Go Girl!

Bronwyn, Examinator & Foxy: you guys keep popping up together –like, like The Three Amigos!
If there’s one, sooner or later there’ll be another, and another, till we have the whole three of you.

I’m not being critical …no, I kinda like it …

Act-tu-ally there's soooo many things I like about you guys ,
I, I just don't know where to begin,

Bronwyn
I like the way you deliver those crafty lines
[“I’ve got no agenda here . I'm only interested in conveying the same sense of reality…” ]
like the way you, act all self-righteous ,
[While you're yawning, these people are struggling to survive. But hey don't let that intrude into your cosy little world]
I like the way you, glare so much,

Examinator,
I like the way you, sing along,
I like the way you, clap your hands,
I like the way you, love to dance to what ever they play
[Bronwyn is a teacher and smart ]

Foxy ,
I like the way you,wear your heart on your sleeve ,
I like the way you, shake your fist ,
I like the way you’re so trusting ,
[With you all the way!You Go Girl]

but most of all....
Yeah..
most of all
mooooost of aaaall
I like the way one an all
You always get it WRONG ,

I like the way you move.....
I like the way you move.....

Horus

Have you got an opinion on Sri Lanka?

Or do you just like doing a Houellebecq - carping from the sidelines?

This thread looks like breaking all records. So far I've been called a dreamer, nasty, imperialistic, mean-spirited, ignorant, an LTTE sympathiser, a revolutionary, a Trotskyist, a Leftist, crafty, self-righteous, a glarer and always WRONG.

And all that from a fourteen post thread! I am impressed.

Dear Horus,

Thank You for your song.
"I like the way you move..."

I'm very flattered by your observation.

However, I'm not sure that you're correct.
Because, Examinator, Bronwyn, CJ,
Belly, RObert, Suze, and many more ...
you'll find are all regular posters on
OLO - and you'll find us appearing together
on just about every interesting thread -
because OLO is moorish and fun. You're
more than welcome to join us. And don't
worry too much about getting things wrong.
Confidence comes not from always being
right but from not being frightened to be
wrong.

As Philip Roth said, "Maybe the best thing
would be to forget being right or wrong
about people and just go along for the ride.
But if you can do that - well, lucky you."

Bronwyn,
"I’ve been called a dreamer, nasty, imperialistic, mean-spirited, ignorant, an LTTE sympathiser, a revolutionary, a Trotskyist, a Leftist, crafty, self-righteous, a glarer and always WRONG".

Ah, but think of the upside in being able to unroll such an impressive list of accusations. It shows people what you’ve endured: you’re a victim too, just like those poor “refugees” ( all somewhat reminiscent of young men in continental Europe flaunting fencing scars).

I think you know my opinions re Sri Lanka. Sri Lanka is no different to a hundred other conflicts that are going on at various venues around the globe. There are contending accounts of events, people who sympathize with the agendas of the left choose to believe what ever account justifies the largest infusion of aid or the largest intake of “refugees”. And there are always plenty of local opportunists willing to play along and act out the roll of victims in the hope it will allow them to trade-up to a more affluent country.

As others have pointed out –the latest most succinctly by The Missus--"utopia is not a place on Earth".Any template you apply to justify Sri Lankan boaties can be applied to a million other “refugees”.And, I have noted those most deserving of the classification of refugees are usually those least able to make the claim.

Your talk of “our fair share” or “small percentages” is just a sugar coating you apply to make your case more palatable.I see you’re already rubbing your hands gleefully and planning for “climate change refugees”.With your thinking there can be no end until everyone is leveled to the lowest common denominator.

But we’ve been here before, various posters point out the deficiencies in your reasoning/accounts.What then happens: in most cases, you don’t respond to the points raised--you simply sidestep them, or worse, declare they aren’t valid ,apparently only because –Bronwyn said so! Then go on your merry way giving your prepared spiel –and thereafter it’s turtles all the way down.

Ay, was that you and Foxy I saw in this video clip?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c8imenLWsg

Horus

IMO I guess it all depend on why you write on OLO as how you view others.
I Foxy, Bronwyn et al have my respect because they tend to respect me and my motives and neither are fools. I appreciate anyone who can reason or explain their views clearly and don't simply use the 'put downs' in stead of a thought through argument.

BTW the two mentioned are a tiny part of those I respect, on OLO.
It would be easier for me to tell you whose opinions I don't respect...but I wont.

In my last post I gave a whole heap of issues that are worthy of consideration so why not address them? I am interested to read others considered thinking on the subject.

*As of November 10, only 138,000 of the original 294,000 remained in the camps. A big challenge is to ensure they have houses to which they can return. The removal of about 1.5 million mines from an estimated 403sq km of land is continuing.*

*http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/pull-factors-are-a-potent-drawcard/story-e6frg6zo-1225797533168*

The way it works Horus, is a bit like this: We have a cosy little
group of the emotionally overwhelmed on OLO.

A poster like Bronnie, will seek out opionions which comply with
her extreme left agenda, then claim it as gospel, ignoring all
other evidence, such as the above.

Our cosy little group then all pat each other on the proverbial
back in reassurance, for if they agree, then it must be true!

So they all feel better, rewarded by neural feelgood chemicals,
as they all sing Kumbaya together :)

Tomorrow they most likely will all be back for another dose of
feelgood chemistry. Meantime reality is best ignored, so we
close our eyes and pretend that it does not exist. Quite simple really!

Horus

<< Your talk of “our fair share” or “small percentages” is just a sugar coating you apply to make your case more palatable.I see you’re already rubbing your hands gleefully and planning for “climate change refugees”.With your thinking there can be no end until everyone is leveled to the lowest common denominator. >>

I'm as concerned as you are at the numbers of refugees coming to our shores. The problem for me is that the solutions on offer to prevent this happening are inhumane. It's easier for you, because that's not something you lose sleep over.

<< But we’ve been here before, various posters point out the deficiencies in your reasoning/accounts.What then happens: in most cases, you don’t respond to the points raised--you simply sidestep them ... >>

True, I don't always respond to every point made against an opinion of mine. Time is one factor. Another is that I don't like repeating myself. Once the argument starts to become circular as it often does with some of these threads, I leave it for someone else to have a go. A perfectly valid course of action I would have thought.

<< ... or worse, declare they aren’t valid ,apparently only because –Bronwyn said so! >>

It may appear that way at times, but I think I mostly back up what I say with evidence, especially when queried.

Yabby

<< A poster like Bronnie, will seek out opionions which comply with her extreme left agenda, then claim it as gospel, ignoring all other evidence, such as the above. >>

Firstly, the only 'agenda' I have is to express an opinion, which I presume is the reason we're all here.

Yes, I'm from the Left of the political spectrum, but my views are not extreme. That is just another one of the many labels you throw at me Yabby in order to discredit my arguments.

I don't ignore evidence and will admit error when any evidence submitted clearly shows I need to. Funny, I don't recall you doing that, but maybe you do.

As far as the link you're referring to, I'd already acknowledged that conditions seem to be improving when I stated - "Huge numbers of Tamil civilians have been in danger, though by all accounts there seems to be some hope of it easing now."

The author of the article, the Sri Lankan ambassador, is hardly a dispassionate observer. He's maintained there's no problem all along, which is exactly the stance you'd expect from a Government appointee. I'll be more persuaded by his words, once I start reading similar reports from objective sources.

Yabby, you can bully me all you like. It's water off a duck's back. The more you do it though, the more you look as though you're running out of countering argument.

The perspectively myopic lot

Feel good? How?
emotionally overwhelmed? from what? Name calling and logically imbecilic labels. Those mentioned and several others don't feel the need to be so petty.

My response to H about Bronwyn was stating the OBVIOUS and how insulting it is to others to involve them in his petty little 'hate examinator' "because it amuses him game" (his words).

I'd challenge the name callers to the one I set H. in the post "women abuse children too"

You think that a number of my posted topics might have a common link? Of course they do.

Tip: there has been a lot of OLO action about refugees. Perhaps, just perhaps I was exploring the potential and causal links to this 'flood' or potential flood? My teasers question might tell you that, if you think about it. It's called 'context' a concept a number of you have difficulty with.

Therefore reveal some consistency of possible and practical responses.

NB I have consistently said that it's a problem but not “a flood” and resolution is more effective and cheaper at source. "A gram of prevention is worth a kilo of remedy"
Also the issue way more complex than a few boat loads refugee seekers.

Flash: I would like the issue solved not some temporary store of future hostility as the the ex-colonies are turning out to be. Take your pick then look at the pent up distrust.

Bugger Nirvana it's crap and the band was emotional crap too. How is enlighten self interest a uniquely left concept?

One wonders how you divorce war, abject poverty, ethnic and other internal strife from refugees in beyond me.

Which ever extra number of men go to Afghanistan the equation is going to end up sandwiching the people forcing numbers to flee (refugee).

What makes you think Sri Lanka is going to allow its Tamils to live a fair life (forgive and forget)? It has been a military controlled govt before and I have concerns again.
Now-a-days fleeing is easier that it was then.

*Yabby, you can bully me all you like*

Err hang on Bronnie, I don't bully you lol. Fact is you are a grown
woman and a chalkie, so pehaps are used to your kids accepting
your authority without question, but it does not work that way
on OLO. You have to make valid points of reason, or people will
shoot you down in flames.

Don't forget, I am just a humble peasant :)

Just because the ambassador works for the Sri Lankan Govt, does
not mean that he is unable to make valid points of reason, on their
behalf. I thought that the article contained quite a few really
good ones.

There were after all, good reasons why the camps were established
and why not everyone could return to their homes immediately. There
were also inspections of them, just not perhaps by your
favourite NGOs.

I don't blame the Sri Lankans if they kicked a few of them out,
for after all, they are self appointed, unelected and some of the
people who work for them, can be highly arrogant and biased.

Just look at groups like Peta. Hardly impartial observers to
anything, more like zealots. The same applies to many NGOs.

The ambassador did point out that Colombo is 39 % Tamil, including
many leading business houses and professionals. So being a Tamil
does not mean that Sri Lankan has become unlivable.

Yes, some Tamil terrorists wanted to chop off a piece of the island,
ignored the rule of law, shot and killed to fullfill their objective.
As terrorists, they should be prosecuted, not given a home in Australia.

Given that WA is largely treated as little then a cash cow by the
rest of Australia, I would be the first to support seccession of
our state from you lot, but I don't kill for it, I accept the rule
of law and order.

Bronwyn ,

--“I'm as concerned as you are at the numbers of refugees coming to our shores”
I’m sorry, I must have missed those times you criticised fraudulent activity on the part of asylum seekers (& their advocates ).

Correct me if I am wrong, but you have yet to acknowledge that some sabotage their vessels, many destroy their papers & most are nothing like poor hard done by refugees –but I may have missed it – I will pay better attention perhaps I will catch it next time.

--“It's easier for you, because that's not something you lose sleep over”.
As much as we like you , our current refugee policy (or lack of it) seems a high price to pay to solve your insomnia.

Yabby
I think you are indulging in a little bit of wishful thinking,
>"The ambassador did point out that Colombo is 39 % Tamil,.."<
That might be true but it doesn't mean that Tamils aren't being badly discriminated against.

>"....including many leading business houses and professionals. So being a Tamil does not mean that Sri Lankan (sic) has become unlivable."< How? Some Tamils have made it that's all. What about the majority of Tamils ? Prejudices, violence opportunities? Whites in Zimbabwe?

The Irish Catholics were subject to the same in Northern Ireland in the 60/70s.

Even now after a 'draw' there are still brick walls between the Protestants and Catholics. Forgetting the comparative wealth of the to Catholic Irish to the Tamils I'll bet you didn't complain when IC migrated here in similar numbers in those days?

Given that the War in Colombo was won (?) what makes you think that the prejudice isn't simply added to by revenge?

>"Given that WA is largely treated as little then a cash cow by the
rest of Australia "<(why is that a given? I seem to remember Qld being a big export earner in coal and gas too).

> "I would be the first to support seccession of our state from you lot, but I don't kill for it, I accept the rule of law and order."< (let me guess ding bat Tuckey told you this?) The situation is not even remotely equivalent to what is taking place in Sri Lanka ! You don't have a hostile majority discriminating against you, stopping your progeny from jobs, a future, where you live etc.

Seriously old wheat stalk if the bow was any longer it wouldn't fit lengthwise in WA.

BTW What would you expect a Diplomat under the gun to say.? Actions speak louder that words i.e. The deportation of the regional UNICEF head.

We haven't expelled a a UN regional head for spilling the beans?

Oh yes 'the Australian' is a fair and objective source? It's better than some but.... really!

Horus,

YOU linked me to your spray. Yet I note you still haven't addressed either of my rebuttals?
So enough with the High horse BS.
Sinking their boats burning papers sure and this means what? They're desperate, are taking advantage of a weak spot and? You miss the point they are there who cares (except you and your mind set) about your legal non existent stance on their legality/illegality.
a. With the causation of the refugees? the topic posted?
b. One can disagree with your fixated point but it doesn't mean that any of us aren't concerned about the situation. Your point is simply irrelevant.

You are simply obfuscating trying your apparent Xenophobic best to hijack the conversation to something that has well and truly thrashed out before. At least Yabby is on topic.

And you chuck off at us? Fair suck of the saddle sores!

pontificator,

'I appreciate anyone who can reason or explain their views clearly '

No doubt. But I still believe you could try just a tiny bit, and we could all understand you. If you like, I will try to re-post your posts to translate them for everyone? Will that help? Mistress Bronny would be better, but I'm sure I could fill in the words you miss out and the words with letters missing, maybe group all the stuff in brackets into something sensible.

Yabby,

That's gold.

Hey I think Bronwyn will save us by writing a really nasty letter, or asking the messiah Ruddbot to write a really really nasty letter to those Sri Lankans

Hey stop disagreeing with (whoops I mean bullying) Bronny.

pontificator,

'if you think about it. It's called 'context' a concept a number of you have difficulty with.'
Keep showing those true colours. Pompous, moi? he says.

Ah, the only thing missing on this thread is CJ popping in to call everyone a racist. These are getting better than the gender threads.

Bronwyn,

'While you're yawning, these people are struggling to survive. But hey don't let that intrude into your cosy little world.'

You sound like a student harassing passers by about Nestle or something.

So what's your point. If you don't 'contribute' on the topic to OLO, you don't care? That you think your points will now have more weight after your impassioned lecture? That you're 'better' than people who don't post sincerely and with dedication on OLO about every topic? Just a cheap snipe because you felt like handing out a lecture?

I am bored to death with the whole obsession everyone has with asylum seekers and refugees. I note that it's a good topic for people to show off their 'compassion cred' and lecture people about racism, and come up with 'Australia the influential world saviour that can stop people ever wanting to leave their own country' type solutions.

My simple take on the whole thing has been expressed previously, and can be summed up with 'let them all in'. I couldn't give a toss.

BTW: You really are quite cranky lately. You used to be much more even tempered and I'm wondering what's going on that's making you like this these days. So many lectures. Are you missing your students or something?

pontificator,

'I'd challenge the name callers to the one I set H'
Setting challenges huh? Very mature. I set you a challenge to write a post with no missing words, and without mentioning your candlelight suppers.

You really think in your head that you're setting us a syllabus or something don't you. All this setting challenges, ordering us to 'discuss', giving 'prizes', 'tips', 'hints'. Leading the class through discussion, giving free counselling analysis to the troublesome students, and just being an all round fabulous examinator. Nothing wrong with your ego huh.

Yabby

<< Err hang on Bronnie, I don't bully you lol. >>

That's the trouble with bullies, Yabby, they don't recognise what they're doing, even when it's pointed out to them. I can handle all the rebuttal you care to throw at me, but when you start consistently attacking my character as you have been lately, I will continue to point it out. Of course, I know it will only incite more of the same, but at least what you're doing will be on the record and revealed for what it is.

<< You have to make valid points of reason, or people will shoot you down in flames. >>

Stop patronizing me, Yabby, I make 'valid points of reason'. You need to 'shoot me down in flames', as you put it, with valid reasoning of your own, not spineless put-downs.

<< I don't blame the Sri Lankans if they kicked a few of them (NGOs)out, for after all, they are self appointed, unelected and some of the people who work for them, can be highly arrogant and biased. >>

Perhaps, we could have some Sri Lankan related examples of this. Otherwise, it must be noted that this statement is pure conjecture on your part, and based on bias rather than hard evidence. I find it an unacceptable malignment of good people doing thankless work the rest of us can't or won't take on. The efforts of these people help enormously in the amelioration of poverty and suffering and don't deserve to be denigrated as you have here.

<< Yes, some Tamil terrorists wanted to chop off a piece of the island, ignored the rule of law, shot and killed to fullfill their objective. As terrorists, they should be prosecuted, not given a home in Australia. >>

Again, this is an unacceptable level of slander. You're wrong to equate Tamils with terrorism. Sure, a small minority have resorted to acts of terrorism, which BTW I don't condone in any way, but so too has the government sponsored military engaged in acts that could be described in much the same terms.

Horus

<< As much as we like you , our current refugee policy (or lack of it) seems a high price to pay to solve your insomnia. >>

Very funny. Well 'crafted' too BTW.

Houellebecq

<< So what's your point. If you don't 'contribute' on the topic to OLO, you don't care? That you think your points will now have more weight after your impassioned lecture? That you're 'better' than people who don't post sincerely and with dedication on OLO about every topic? Just a cheap snipe because you felt like handing out a lecture? >>

You were the one making the 'cheap snipe' when you described the topic as 'boring'.

Funny though, now that the thread's degenerated into a slanging match, you're suddenly finding it interesting!

<< BTW: You really are quite cranky lately. You used to be much more even tempered and I'm wondering what's going on that's making you like this these days. So many lectures. Are you missing your students or something? >>

My posting hasn't changed. It's as even, or as uneven, as it's ever been.

Right from the moment you first posted on OLO you started taking cheap shots from the sidelines. I drew attention to it then and will continue to do so. When you lay off the personal attack and debate the issues, you'll see me for the reasonable poster that I'm sure most others do.

Having said that, most of the threads I've been involved in lately have been dealing with serious issues, like asylum-seekers for example, so I might be coming across a bit heavy at times. I'll accept that.

You'll just have to make me laugh more often, Houellebecq. You've done that in the past I must admit. On rare occasions, I might add. :)

Perhaps we all need a repeat of Pelican's very successful dinner guest list thread from about this time last year. It mended a few bridges at the time, even if they were soon broken.

I even warmed to Col, so that's certainly saying something about the power of the virtual social gathering. :)

Bronwyn that wasn't a cheap snipe, I am bored with the topic. I have expanded recently why I am bored with it.

How is that a swipe at you, and how is it 'cheap'?

'now that the thread's degenerated into a slanging match, you're suddenly finding it interesting! '
I'm all about entertainment. It was boring until people started to get wound up. Now it is interesting. I usually storm chase the lively arguments, and there haven't been any gender wars recently. I miss ginx and everyone attacking antiseptic and r0bert apologising all the time.

'Right from the moment you first posted on OLO you started taking cheap shots from the sidelines.'
My first post was

'Is it more plausible that there actually was a talking snake or that one of the people who wrote the Bible made up or repeated a story with one of the characters in the person of a talking snake?'

Or even that hallucinogenic drugs were being used?

Not really a shot at anyone. Maybe at Moses.

My second post was 'Pray for Australia? I didn't know praying was even a competitive sport.'

'Perhaps we all need a repeat of Pelican's very successful dinner guest list thread from about this time last year. It mended a few bridges at the time, even if they were soon broken.
'
Yeah I remember that. Everyone else was hosting a Twenty20 summit and trying to sound intelligent and appropriate the standing of the guests they were inviting, while I invited a bunch of people who would add to the life of a party. Not much has changed. You lot are all still trying to be serious and sound intelligent as if your life depended on it and I'm still keep'n it real.

*they don't recognise what they're doing, even when it's pointed out to them*

Hang on there Bronnie. When the animal welfare threads were on the
go, I was called every hostile name under the sun, by a bunch of
crazy, nasty females. I did not cry that I was being "bullied"

All I am doing with you, is pointing out your foibles :)

*You need to 'shoot me down in flames', as you put it, with valid reasoning of your own,*

Well I thought the valid points made by the ambassador, made many
of your arguments look rather silly. Perhaps you dismissed the
article without reading and digesting it.

*Perhaps, we could have some Sri Lankan related examples of this*

My comment was about NGOS in general and I gave a great example.
Perhaps when they are in Sri Lanka, they are struck by lightning
and change their behaviour? I doubt it lol Many zealots work
for NGOs, hardly dispassionate observers.

You are quite correct of course. Not all Tamils are terrorists.
It seems that around 127000 LTTE fighters, or terrorists, had to
be weeded out by the Govt, to reintroduce the rule of law.

If 12700 armed Australians tried to overthrow the Govt, shoot, murder etc, what would you call them?

Examinator, go check your data. Western Australia, with roughly
10% of the population, generates roughly 50% of our exports. In
other words, without us, your economy would collapse.

Examinator,
I’ve picked up what I could –some of your comments were a little hard to follow. Let me know if I left anything important out.

1) ---“Sinking their boats burning papers sure… They're desperate”
Oh, so it’s alright if you’re “desperate” –next time I’m applying for that dream job and I don’t have the right qualifications I’ll simply make it up, lie and cheat and when they finally catch up with me, I’ll say: “I was desperate”, it will be interesting to see their reaction!

2) --- “I was exploring the potential and causal links …A gram of prevention is worth a kilo of remedy…One wonders how you divorce war, abject poverty, ethnic and other internal strife from refugees in beyond me”
If you look at the wider picture , many illegal immigrants are emanating from locations with no strife (other than criminal strife which you’ll find everywhere)There is no Taliban in Mexico , no war – but have a geeza at the number fleeing to the USA.There are thousands poring into Europe from Africa but by-and-large they are not from war zones.

They are not choosing SAFE havens –but the most AFFLUENT havens.
There are plenty of options along the way –which they choose to by-pass.

You may in the depths of your bleeding heart have much sympathy for such relatively worse off persons.But the refugee convention –under which many are seeking to justify residency – does not list escape to relatively better economic prospects as a legitimate reason to seek refugee status.

You says you’d fix the causes/push factors; poverty & strife – fine .
Bare in mind the “context” :hundreds of sovereign entities, each with different population levels/growths , on different resource bases, with differing value systems. How?
“You say you got a real solution
Well you know
we'd all love to see the plan”

TBC

3) ---“I would like the issue solved not some temporary store of future hostility as the ex-colonies are turning out to be. Take your pick then look at the pent up distrust”
[ not sure what this was all about!]
When you talk of ex-colonies, are you talking about ALL ex-colonies –or only the ones in vogue at Marxist Summer School.
NB: Colonialism and Imperialism is not a endemic European or American affliction!

4)---“ Which ever extra number of men go to Afghanistan the equation is going to end up sandwiching the people forcing numbers to flee (refugee)”.
“Refugees” were fleeing Afghanistan long before Westerners arrived. For years they would flee to Pakistan & Iran to avoid periodic drought/famine.And, if we had sat back and not become involved in the current conflict (or similar) --I seriously doubt we would have escaped your criticism – you’d likely have said : “ why we didn’t do something” ala (post) Rwanda or Srebrenica.

5)---“ What makes you think Sri Lanka is going to allow its Tamils to live a fair life (forgive and forget)? It has been a military controlled govt before and I have concerns again.”
Well look at this way, It was never the case of all Singhalese embattling all Tamils.
The LTTE were always only a small portion of Tamils.
Tamils can cite discrimination/abuse –you bet!
But so can ,and do, practically every ethnic group in our liberal multicultural Australia!

PS Don’t be so down on Nirvana they produced some good material.

Horus
NB it is not my intention to convince anybody of anything only that they should understand what I meant.

1. Dream job V fleeing poverty, oppression. Come on not exactly comparative. I also don't claim it's necessarily correct but merely explainable.

2. Show me a war that doesn't have refugees. Nor did I say that was the only reason for refugees. Hunger, violent social unrest, natural or man made disasters feature too. Mexico has a drug gang war raging. I think it's a long bow to link Mexico with and our region.
Sure there's a plan some of the current articles allude to the solution.

3. Where have you been? Have you any idea how unpopular Anglos are in PNG? India, Afghanistan, the middle east?

4. Possibly but they've been at war of some type for 100 years latest USSR, Taliban, USA. We can't claim the high moral ground as some seem to.

5.Different order of magnitude. Bitterness dies slowly
14 years after the war Rwanda is still suffering the same ethnic unrest etc.

Nirvana good? come on emotional angst personified.

Examinator,
"3. Where have you been? Have you any idea how unpopular Anglos are in PNG? India, Afghanistan, the middle east?"

Holy cow, Examinator, you’ve just explained a mystery that has been bugging me for ages.
Why would someone do this?
http://static.squidoo.com/resize/squidoo_images/250/draft_lens2117266module31383502photo_1241533952Hooks_in_the_back.jpg

Perhaps, for the same reason(s) so many of them want to spend weeks crossing seas in a small leaky boat, just so they can live next to neigbours --on your testimony-- they hate: those “unpopular Anglos”

They must be all masochists
ROFL