examinator

<< ... the primary reason the Pacific solution worked was that there was significant naval(blockade) presence in the intervening seas. ... However current tactics negate the 'blockade' idea. >>

I think there's still a fair bit of 'blockading' going on myself. Over eighty boats have been turned back to Indonesia in the last twelve months. As pointed out by rstuart, contrary to popular belief, not much of what Howard put in place has been changed.

<< ... change the visa law to allow volunteers to work on farms (jobs we won't do) as Guest workers. >>

I agree, these types of solutions are worth considering. There have been situations where refugees have worked in abattoirs and other hard-to-fill jobs and have contributed greatly to the communities that have taken them in. I think there's scope for them to help revive struggling rural townships, with much needed labour and an injection of new families into the area, though there can be pitfalls. They do need good support with language and cultural integration, in the first six to twelve months especially. A lot of communities are well placed to provide this though and are keen to do so. Quite a few places around the country have declared themselves as Refugee Welcome Cities and Towns.

Yes, there are so many options we could come up with, that would provide refugees the lifeline they need and at the same time greatly benefit Australian communities, if we could just get past the fear and hysteria and talk these options through rationally. It will take real leadership to make that happen though, and unfortunately I don't think we'll find it in Rudd.

Belly

<< I will never ever get in my own refugee boat and leave Labor for the greens ... >>

No, Belly, I agree, that would be one river too far to row for a rusted on Laborite such as yourself. Who said the Greens would want you anyway? :) One thing your statement proves though is that even you realise that the Greens are the nation's conscience.

Yabby

<< ... I'll rub the post from Franklin under your nose once again ... >>

Franklin posts the same old discredited references in every thread. He's had each of his two arguments soundly rebutted many times over, but he's so stuck in his own little time warp that he keeps trotting them out regardless. No thinking person would take a scrap of notice.

<< Paul Sheehan wrote an informative book ... >>

And in the words of Crikey, 'The Wankley Award goes to … Paul Sheehan.'

http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/08/and-the-wankley-award-goes-to-paul-sheehan/

Paul Sheehan's opinions on migration issues are as credible in the world of journalism as Franklin's are on OLO.

Golly, Yabby, fake conversations and sources scraped from the bottom of the barrel, you'll have to do a bit better than that. :)

And STILL there's ZERO official policy from the opposition regarding how they'd handle the Pacific Viking episode. They've provided Australia with NO alternative solution. They've thus failed to provide alternative leadership. Mr Hockey on Q&A POINT BLANK REFUSED to offer even an "opinion" on what should be done. No wonder politicians have such a small degree of respect from the public regarding their integrity.

And guess what?

When Labour are in opposition they do EXACTLY THE SAME THING (most of the time) as the Coalition is currently doing .......... oppose for opposing's sake. The goal being attempted political advantage.

In a year's time, Labour will come out on top in the opinion polls regarding this (in fact they are STILL on top even now, according to the latest poll). Why? Because by then better solutions will be in place, the hysteria from the minority will have abated, and the voting public will remember that the Coalition offered NO SOLUTION at the time when a solution was needed. In other words, the Coalition showed they were incapable of offering alternative **LEADERSHIP**. And Labour will RAM THAT HOME, again and again, at the election.

And that's a real shame. We need a STRONG opposition, with strong alternative policies. We need real choice ....... at the moment the ONLY choice we have is Labour, and that's not good for our country. We need TWO viable choices, for our democracy to work at it's best.

In the meantime, Banjo and his ilk are happy to demonise boat people with quite hateful posts. What a shame. The vast majority of decent Aussies are MUCH better than that.

Come on Malcolm ...... it's been weeks now and NO POLICY!

For every good policy your greens have Bronwyn ten idiotic ones exist.
White knight?
Hardly trade barriers total isolation is my way not war.
Turnbull is pure politician, no policy no pride just ego and ambition.
Rudd has the sweat on his brow, he will find no easy way out of this, bringing them here is now a back down.
And a removal of the door.
Forcing them from the ship, the best idea, with bring the left out screaming .
Asking his wavering partners to remove them against sea law.
How will he do it?
Turnbull awaits on one side Bob Browns legion of the lost left on the other, Kevy old son you are in it.
Avoid it if you will but folks the fact while they flee sometimes horrible lives some are indeed coming with pockets full of cash.
Some paid more in American dollars to smugglers than I could put together in months.
Let the debate rage, but do not be blind to truth.
Insults from greens to my party are a grin, most greens come back to us in second choice and in any future government controlled by a greens senate the whole world will see how our of touch, radical, silly greens can be.
See you at conference Bronwyn.

RStuart,

--“What can I say Horus?”
Well ….”sorry Horus, I was on the wrong track but you’ve straightened me out now “
would be a good starting point
(We could discuss the terms of your crossing the floor & membership fees later )

--“Given how much you are pretending to miss, I am surprised you bothered to pick it out.”

You are right and you are wrong.
I didn’t miss what the others were saying, I didn’t see it of great value
I was looking for the grains amid the chaff –and there were few of them.

But what I missed was the Old RStuart.
I can recall you facing down CJ Morgan when he ran the line that Aus was not pulling it’s weight in refugee terms.
And I cited your contribution more than once in following threads
Yet today I strain to tell the difference between you and him .

As for choices and the UNHCR:
We are not yet under UN suzerainty –though we are quickly heading there
We have every choice –we could withdraw from the refugee convention tomorrow.
Gough Whitlam put major restrictions on its operations/coverage of issues.

and here’s another one from Gough

"Any sovereign nation has the right to determine how it will exercise its compassion and how it will increase its population."
Gough Whitlam

TZ52HX

Demonise boat people? To accept their claim of genocide is to demonise Sri Lanka. Seems the staff of the customs vessel are now demonised. I would not take that in the workplace. If you take any side of the debate you demonise. Some claims for the advocacy of boat people are straight out propoganda. Australians excercising their democratic right to have a voice on the issuee are demonised on a regular basis. Demonising is the name of the game. The truth? I really do not think anyone knows it but more importantly, few seem to want to know it.