mikk I don't much like corporal punishment but the langauage you use is deliberately loaded - a smack is not a bashing etc, parents who use a smack when necessary are not violent child abusers etc.

Children are not adults, the same constraints and consequences which apply to most adults don't work with children. Adults who behave the way children do at times would be likely to face a jail term. If they respond to the police the way children sometimes respond to the adults with responsibility for them they could well find themselves on the end of a Taser/capsican spray etc to stop the dangerous behaviour.

Often there is a better way of dealing with the situation, sometimes because of the situation that better solution is not something that the parent can find in a timely manner.

There are parents who bash children, that's not what the topic is about. There are also parents who harm children with words, there are parents who do great harm by refusing to give their children understandable boundaries or consequences. They are the abusers, not those who occasionally use a smack to stop a dangerous situation when they can't find a better solution at the time.

R0bert

the problem with these sorts of laws are as follows

1 they intrude into the balance of family relationships and Laws are supposed to respect (stay away from) the different dynamics of relationships in families and concern themselves with the interaction between individuals outside of the family context.

2 they undermine the authority of the parent in the family context.

3 as Robert pointed out, there is a difference between smacking (even with a wooden spoon) and a bashing.

4 these rules will be ignored by the people they are intended to curb anyway.

My ex-wife used to use a wooden spoon... I only ever used my hand, figuring - if it felt to hard for me to bear it was probably too hard a smack.

For all that there are times when a childs behaviour warrants a smack and for remote strangers to pretend they know better than parents in those instances is to surrender to the extreme hubris of who are no more than appointed civil servants and government flunkies.

Dear Graham,

I've only ever used a smack on the bottom to
influence my children in a better direction.

I want to make it clear that I think there's a
"right" kind of spanking and a "wrong" kind.
By the wrong kind I mean a cruel and sadistic
beating.

This fills a child with hatred, and
a deep desire for revenge. This is the kind that's
administrated with a strap or stick or some other
type of parental "weapon." Or it could also
mean a humiliating slap in the face.

I remember reading about a father whaling
the tar out of his little boy, saying as he
whales him,

"That'll teach you to hit people!"
(He's right - it will!)

The right kind of spanking needs no special
paraphernalia. Just the hand of the parent
administrated on the kid's bottom. The right
kind of spanking is a positive thing. It clears
the air, and is vastly to be preferred to
moralistic and guilt-inducing parental lectures.

Both parent and child get a chance to begin again.

I admit that quite a few times my first immediate
reaction was frustration and guilt after giving
my child a smack. It bothered me that I'd blown
my cool.

There have been times when I've told my kids,
"Look, Mommy goofed. I lost my temper, and I'm
sorry I did!"

If we were 100 percent perfect parents, we would all be
so mature we would never need to spank our kids except
in unusual or extreme situations (such as when a child
runs out into the street). The point is, we're not
such 100 percent perfect parents. We're not able to
administer discipline calmly and serenely all the time.
It would be nice if we could. But life doesn't seem to
work out that way. We get fed up when our kids
misbehave and we lose our cool and swat them.

But that's nothing to feel guilty about. We feel better
and they feel better, the air is cleared. Both parent
and child get a chance to begin again.

rehctub wrote:

"I think there is a definite link between the removal of the cane from schools and the current lack of respect shown by the majority of our youth and young adults.

'Respect your elders' is a phrase from a by gone era I am afraid!"

Dear rehctub,

One of the problems that I see in Australia is too much respect for authority. Our government can put us into war solely on the action of the prime minister. I was circulating a petition requiring that there be open debate and discussion in Parliament with opportunity for public input before Australia goes to war if there had not been an attack upon Australia. Even those who agreed would not sign it. Some of those who objected said that the prime minister was elected to decide things like that.

I hope the lack of respect for elders is accompanied by questioning. It can be a sign that Australian democracy is becoming healthier.

Respect should only be given when respect is earned. It is not earned merely by being old. I am in my eighties, but no one owes me any respect for choosing my ancestors wisely.

Graham,

IMO the one thing that many responders miss is that their PERSONAL experience, egos etc have little to do with the purpose of the law.

The reason for the law is one of a catch-all geared to the lowest denominator.

The most constructive thing I can offer is that the Anti Nanny State Posters should spend some time in the front line at the coalface at the wrong end of society before being so adamant.
The problem that many overlook is that not everyone is as measured reasoned as they claim to be. So long as the "the right" (?) to physically discipline children remains, the ANSP would be surprised how many apparently limited parents are out there when it comes to committed, measured and rational parenting.

Given that the police get to deal with the worst of it, I'm not surprised by the odd seeming overly officious police officer in this topic.

Fortunately this 'nanny state' law is slowly changing the the attitudes. Compared to 25-60 years ago child battering as a percentage of the population has decreased and the number permanently harmed is anybodies guess.
Clearly then it is pointless on a whole community context to cite "well it never did me any harm".

Community attitudes tend to change by a top down process, there are always egotistical/recalcitrant individuals along the way that refuse to put effort into change A METHOD of correcting a child.

I'm sorry davidf. I have to absolutely disagree with you about people having too much respect for authority.

I think your example is more relevant to Howard making a decision that was within his powers, but against the populous opinion.

Students stand over, threaten, swear at, insult and disobey their teachers and there are very few tools are available to teachers to address this. In my day (and I'm only 31) if you did any of this to a teacher, your parents would back the teacher up and you would cop a punishment at school and at home. No threat of violence, just a consistent application of punishment for disrespecting people in authority.

Police are disobeyed, disrespected, assaulted, spat at, sworn at, and not just by so called "criminals". By mums pulled over for talking on their telephone, young males pulled up for inspections on their hotted up cars, the business man who is running late and gets pulled over for speeding.
I've given the odd alcohol fueled mouthful to bouncers in the past, but on the one occasion a policeman was wandering past and suggested I move on, I shut my mouth and moved on. You'd be lucky to see this attitude very often any more.

On the issue of smacking I agree with you GrahamY. To be used as a circuit breaker when there isn't time to use a gentler form of discipline. About to put a fork in a power point, about to stab their sister etc.