Another problem is the type of imigents we are bringing in to our country.

The news lately is dominated by ethnics and muslims either planning a terrerist attack, performing one, or being charged with one.

Thank god they have not yet been succesfull, but that's only a matter of time.

In my view, anyone convicted of terrerisum should be deported, along with their entire family. After all, it is they who place the well being of their families at risk. Treat them like drug dealers and sell their assetts, we could well use the money.

Not only do they bring their ways of life into our country, but they also try to stop us from living our lives the way we have for centuries. All because successive governments have become 'soft cocks' when it comes to 'political correctness'.

To my knowledge our entire nation has to contend with water restrictions. Our emergency services are on overload and our health system is past breaking point and has been for years, yet, they encourage more.

I say stop imigration immediately, at least until we fix our failing systems. Then, and only then, look at allowing imigrents who will respect our country for what it is.

<< Ludwig and company words flow with ease, ideas right or wrong flow from your key board. >>

Are you sure about that Belly?

Clearly Ludwig needs all the help he can get, as his words tend to 'flow' from others.

For those familiar with the tactics of Stevenlmeyer, I wonder at the agenda for this thread.

Simply to bash a Labor Government?

As others have pointed out the immigration policy is similar enough to the Howard Government's as to be almost indistinguishable. Baby Bonus? A Howard initiative.

Or will Ludwig turn to his favourite topic; bash the boat people.

Ludwig has, yet, to discuss the issues of sustainable population at any level beyond the superficial.

The Left and the Right are all for high immigration and for different reasons. Cross out reasons because that makes it sound like they have facts on their side. It is about ideology and votes in some marginal seats, not facts.

It is pleasing that Bob Brown has changed his stance, as I recall he was once all for populate or perish, imagining as others do that Australia is a great big open country with plenty of vacant land to squat. There is a lot of land but mainly desert and fragile marginal country.

However it is unfair to Australian women to suggest they should not have children when both sides of government have been responsible for continually higher immigration levels. Through record immigration, our population growth exceeds that of Asian countries, contributing to lack of supply of housing and high property prices, unsustainable growth of cities, much higher taxes in an attempt to play catch-up with needed infrastructure and lack of water.

I do not believe that Labor or the Libs have the guts to stand up to the lobbying of the pro-immigration lobby. The Greens? I would like to be convinced that Bob Brown's turn-around has more to do with concern about sustainability and quality of life rather than picking up a few more Senate seats. It is good to see some criticism of the government's immigration policies though.

Sheesh, what is your problem Fractelle?

Haven't we always got along well?

You've previously expressed agreement with me over the subject at hand. It seems as though you are losing your independence becoming a nasty little CJ clone, hellbent on finding something to pick at!

Pffffff! ( :>|

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"Barry Jones remember him Ludwig?"

Sure do Belly. The Inquiriy into Australia's Population Carrying Capacity that he headed in 1994 was a thorough examination of the best population scenario for this country's future.

It came up with the right answers - stabilisaton at around 23 million, for reasons pertaining to environmetal health, quality of life and the maintenance of these values at a respectable level.

Of course it was shelved...and successive governments went on their merry way in exactly the opposite direction.

"So along with your fellow ranters here why blame Rudd?"

"ranters"? BELLY, now you've always been one of my most admired posters on this forum. What gives?

Successive governments are culpable, but obviously I blame Rudd the most because he's now in charge, and he's bloody well considerably boosted our population growth rate at a time when the importance of heading towards a stable population is greater than ever before.

So Belly, how do you counter that? Surely you are not going to defend Rudd over this?

Now I have had a chance to watch Rudd for a while, he seems like a fairly pragmatic sort of bloke who seeks out the best advice he can find and follows it - for better or worse. In particular Rudd, unlike Howard, does not seem look at the world through strongly idealogical glasses that influence Howard's every decision.

So I'd say the Rudd is being given advice that Australia needs to grow its population from people he trusts. What is more, I'd say that advice with a set of very plausible facts and figures to back it up. It would have to be, otherwise Rudd would not accept it.

I'd really, really like to see that advice and the reasoning behind it, and I like to know who is giving it. My guess is it is being given by Treasury, and it is based on the difficulty of supporting an ageing population. If so there is a obvious counter argument, but no one is putting it.

as one of the 20 million...non telstra common share/shareholders defrauded..by the one point four who now hold telstra shares im as much sick of the bleating from those who stole telicom...as they now no doudt are about govt trying to steal it back

that being said..re the lie of poulation..eating all your food most of you never grew stuff all food...most of ya claim others lands..etc etc..the list is extensive...but no doudt the guilty hoarders of the peoples common assets have fears...

so much so eugenics runs your adjenda...yes..we believe you..the world is too crowded...i recomend you that believe the world is too crowded..take the flue vacine...pump this cure for over population into your kids...forgetting it has been..built/created..in record time..on gm principles..using gm-bacteria...not eggs

the same gm you lot invested into total control of the seeds and terminator principles..and soon eugenics...either the fast way via their drugs diseases and cures...or the slow way through your food/phones..and water...

we been hearing this creation is overcrowded..go look out in the country there is mostly unused farmlands throughout the world...look at all the global food baskets been shut down...recal the mountains of dumped butter...

this lie of overpoulation has its roots in our ancient pasts..for thousands of years you mindless fear filled freaks...have been sold that furfy..do the research...those with murder in their heart will let others do their sick.will..

it begins with you eugenics/nutters complaining with your spin and buzz words..fears and delusions..it ends with things like the spanish flue/smallpox and other deliberated murder..gas/guns/or ovens..masked as cure/war or accidental..or orded..then their compul-sorry..inoculations with known carcinogenes..and now gmo