There's an imbalance of power in the Della Bosca scandal that's been worrying me. While Della Bosca is theoretically the powerful one in the relationship between him and the woman known only as "Kate", the way in which it has been reported seems to me to unreasonably tip the balance away from Della Bosca to Kate.

Clinical psychologist Janet Hall on LiveNews put some flesh onto these concerns talking about "predator women" http://tinyurl.com/nja87o.

In the first place I'm not sure why a private matter should be reported by the press so that it remains a private matter for one of the parties, but not the other. Della Bosca is subject to scrutiny, but the woman only partially so because we know who he is and can subject what he says to some checks in terms of what we know of him.

She on the other hand can say what she likes and we have no way of gauging her honesty.

In the second place, I can't see how this matter should have the bearing on Della Bosca's career that it has, unless it compromised his ability to conduct his role as a minister of the crown. The evidence that it has is shaky, and because of the anonymity of the woman, not really subject to test.

Has the reporting of this issue over-stepped the mark? Has it been conducted ethically? Should the woman be allowed to be an anonymous source?

GY
It would appear that You and I agree. Then again I have great difficulties with the absolute concept of freedom of speech. To me this is a unnecessary and pointless titillation.
Are you aware that 'Kate' was all over ch10 last night.

I would suggest that the police minister's statement that he is the best strategic political mind in the country is somewhat threadbare give he tends to be accident prone.

The sad reality is that the mass love a good sex scandal and the media is more than willing to foster this lesser side of society for their own selfish needs. My concern isn't the incident it's trivial but as part of the desensitizing of people.

Valid questions, Graham.

>>Has the reporting of this issue over-stepped the mark? Has it been conducted ethically?<<

The two angles on the story are news-as-information, (a government minister has resigned) and news-as-entertainment, (they had sex on a couch.)

Given that it is the NSW government that is involved, the ministerial aspect of it is already pretty close to irrelevant.

Given also that the Minister concerned has been in the public eye, and had his private life scrutinised quite recently in "Piranhagate", there is very little serious news that can be presented to the public.

So we should simply accept that the entire sad episode will be handled as sleazy tabloid material, complete with faux-psychological analyses of behavioral patterns.

His, along the lines of "this is what power does to you, it overrides your ethical control mechanisms and unzips your trousers." Hers, along the lines of "scheming woman, out for everything she can get".

Ethical treatment has never been a characteristic of tabloid journalism, while overstepping the mark is practically a requirement.

But in a way, it is also cathartic. By getting all this sex 'n' treachery out in the open and working the material to death in a short space of time, it will be very quickly forgotten.

Unless of course Belinda Neal provides further gripping material, Lorena Bobbett-style, down the track.

Who leaked the story? Was it Kate? This hasn't been reported as far as I recall.

And what was the motive? Is it a square-up for things Della Bosca has done in the past or just an accidental slip of the tongue that the media got hold of and beat up?

These are questions that need answering to ascertain whether Della is getting his just desserts or not.

I tend to agree too, Graham - although it's a moot point now that Kate Neil has been outed [ http://tiny.cc/HE4S3 ]. Since the story broke, I've been thinking that there must be something else going on that we're not hearing about.

While Della Bosca's reported actions might be morally reprehensible, I wouldn't have thought that an extramarital affair would in itself be a hanging offence for a government minister. Indeed, given who he's married to, I imagine many people would understand why he might stray from the matrimonial boudoir.

I do not see any imbalance here.

A woman has disclosed that she had an affair with a married man. the man has admitted to this, so there is no reason for the woman not to retain her privacy.

If the man had disputed the matter it would be a different kettle of fish.

The man concerned is a public firure who holds high office and must resign, or be removed, because he has shown himself to be dishonest. A married person cannot be involved in an affair without being a liar and a cheat. Therefore not being worthy to hold office.

If his wife had said that she had no objection to him having sex outside their marriage, again it would be different. But that has not happened.

Other Parliamentairians have lost their positions because they cheated on their travel or car allowances, etc. This is no different.

He has admitted to being a cheat and we cannot accept that in public figures.

We let politicians get away with far too much as it is.

Jay:”Hang on while I just check my wrist for a pulse. Hmm... No. The story just dosen't seem to excite me at all. Just some sleazy slut out to make a quid for her self. I bet she had it all planned. Seduce a political Minister, anyone, it doesen't matter, sell the story to the highest bidder.”

Agreed it is boring, I don’t believe politicians embrace ethics and it never surprises when proof appears of this lack in their personality.

I’m disappointed at how stupid he is but after that second of emotion I realized I don’t even know who the dude is or what he does.

If she planned it then we should vote her in. Maybe she could do it to China or something.

Harold Holt, Bob Hawke, John Gorton all had extramarital affairs and continued on successfully in their chosen careers. I do not see what a person's sex-life has to do with one's job.

There must be more to this "scandal" than we are privy to. If Della Bosca was any good at his job this 'affair' would not be an issue.

However, he has resigned. His marriage is probably rocky if not ruined. He shows poor judgement in women. Nothing new, nothing to see, move on.

I agree entirely with Banjo. MPs are the nation's decision makers and are not setting an example for their constituents. Worse, many constituents find this behaviour acceptable.

However, where does the code of ethics start and end for those in public life? John Bowler was a Minister in WA's Labor government prior to the last state elections. The Crime and Corruption Commission found Bowler guilty of leaking cabinet documents to his friend (and lobbyist) Julian Grill, of the infamous Burke/Grill duo.

Bowler's punishment was a demotion to the back bench. Seemingly, the citizens of Kalgoorlie like cheats and liars since he now holds the seat of Kalgoorlie as an independent.

Brian Burke was once Premier of WA during the ignominious WA Inc era and is an ex gaol bird. The media claims that taxpayers picked up Burke's legal bills of some $900,000. However, WA senior public servants and politicians have found it quite acceptable to do business with an ex gaol bird - well until the more recent CCC's revelations and now they've all ducked for cover!

Then you have church leader - the hapless Peter Hollingsworth who has my sympathy despite my loathing of paedophiles.

I am aware of several politicians who have become carried away with their own importance - pollies who were happily married prior to entering parliament but who are sufficiently egotistical to believe they can lead double lives because of their parliamentary position.

"Kate" will pay a smaller price. Perhaps Della Bosca should have selected a lover who could keep her mouth shut! That's what the more discreet pollies do these days.

Hang on while I just check my wrist for a pulse. Hmm... No. The story just dosen't seem to excite me at all. Just some poor, downtroden, missguided, honest woman out to make a quid for her self. I bet she had it all planned. Seduce a political Minister, anyone, it doesen't matter, sell the story to the highest bidder.

People do this all the time, especially women. Who cares if he had taken sexual advantage of a naieve, unsuspecting, beautiful young woman. I don't. The only person who should be upset should be his wife. Then maybe she's glad that he's not bothering her. ;-)

Is that more acceptable Graham?

Well, we mostly agree that the affair is something, nothing.

However, I believe the bloke should be sacked.

Anybody who can show such dereaful taste, & judgement, where women are concerned, is most unlikely to make sound choices, as a government minister.

That this twit, has got so many other twits, all atwitter is the most interesting, & worrying part of the whole thing.

I cant believe the misogynist drivel by some of these supposed 'men' on this forum. The OLO bitter men brigade is out in full force!

HE was the one with the power. HE was the one cheating on his wife. Oh yes, it's the 'predator women' is it? When an ugly old man with power and money puts his filthy mits on a young innocent girl, who really just wanted to be loved, She's the predator?!

CJ,

'Indeed, given who he's married to, I imagine many people would understand why he might stray from the matrimonial boudoir.'

How utterly offensive you disgusting little man. So threatened by a woman who dares to speak her mind like Belinda? A man acts like that and he's 'strong', a woman is considered a b1tch. Got what's coming to her did she? Not pretty enough for this ugly old fart that he has to get a younger model?

Thank god some real men on OLO like Banjo have some guts to see this situation for what it really is.

jayb,

'People do this all the time, especially women.'
Oh yes, blame the victim!

'Who cares if he had taken sexual advantage of a naieve, unsuspecting, beautiful young woman. I don't.'

No doubt you don't, as men throughout the centuries have abused and taken advantage of women like this. Perhaps if you treated women as more than a cheap piece of meat, you wouldn't have such trouble understanding what victims like this go through. I'm sure you have about as much success in your personal relationships as this poor excuse for a man.

I wish you'd come right out with it, Houellebecq, and say what you mean, instead of beating around the bush like that.

I must confess, I thought the topic was the handling of the issue by the media, not a detailed character assessment of the combatants.

Still, it's good to have another perspective.

I would find it hard to believe that the NSW Labour party would have anyone left who is any better than Della Bosca. This twisted woman who willingly engaged with Bosca must really be a nasty piece of work. Instead of being ashamed of having sex with another woman's husband she gets on her high horse and wants him destroyed. Bosca shows he has a little more character than Clinton in at least he resigned and faced up to the fact that adultery is wrong and destroys families. A bit more than what this woman predator did.

Houellebecq, or is that Holla ba lou. I think we've met. Were you the one that told me that, "all mem if accused of rape should go to jail, weather they did it or not. Just to make up for the ones that did it & got away with it." Hmm... sound just like you.

The guess hairy legged boilersuit brigade believe that all women are victims of men, regardless of weather the women has purposely seduced the man for monetery gain & notoriety or not. She has done a Lewinsky or a "click, click, Bang, Bang." Now she's a "victim."

Unfortunately Graham has made me lie & be Politically Correct. What ever that means. Those nice sounding adjectives were not my first choice of words. but, I guess, you all would have realized that. I do tend to call a spade a spade not a wonderfully tuned instrument for removing the fill from a hole. ;-)

Holla ba lou, living a fantasy is fine but at some time you will have to get a life.

I see the Calvinists have emerged on this thread - the ones who lock up their women while they do the weekly shopping.

It is a well known fact that since time immemorial, crusty old codgers have dangled their carrots (pun?) by promising pretty young things they'll leave their wives and family:

"But from day dot John led me to believe that his marriage was dead and then as I grew to love him he reassured me that we had a future together:" (http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,26016155-5008620,00.html)

"at least he resigned and faced up to the fact that adultery is wrong and destroys families."

Faced up to the fact or caught out Runner? Yeah right you are - so his lies and treachery impacted on one wife, two children, an impressionable young woman and his entire constituency.

While he may not be popular with the public this bloke is both honest and very good at his job.
I too think he should not have lost his job, and that he very much has been the victim here.
His run for the top job, to a few was the only hope my party had.
yes our current leader will try to fatten that pig on market day, put on the white shirt front up to the bar and buy a round.
Kiss kids and turn on the charm, but still run last in a two horse race.
Dela at least may have got home in front of the clerk of the course.
Females gravitate to powerful men, rich men, old men too.
No evidence has been put how this started, we only know it ended with publicity for both bad for one cash for the other.

an impressionable young woman. Protagoras, Yeah right! pthhh...
I just choked in my beer.
Gullible old goat is more like it. You guys who portray this
"impressionable young woman" as a victim need to take your skirts off. She knew exactly what she was doing & how to go about making a quid. He was just too stupid to realize it. She showed him a bit of "breast" & he thought he was in. In alright, sucked in. She need to be shown up for "the impressionable young woman" she is. I'm not allowed to say what I really think she is.

*It is a well known fact that since time immemorial, crusty old codgers have dangled their carrots (pun?) by promising pretty young things they'll leave their wives and family:*

Yup and since time immemorial, some pretty young things, dreaming of
power and money, have fallen for it. Duh!

Sheesh, the bloke had a fling, like Clinton had a fling. Its their
business, an issue between them and their wives, flings, whatever.

No wonder many really smart guys simply don't bother with politics.
The stupidity and puritanical zealotry of some electors, seemingly
has no limits.

In America they learned the hard way, they got George Bush

"No evidence has been put how this started, we only know it ended with publicity for both bad for one cash for the other."

Who got the cash Belly? "Telegraph editor Garry Linnell denied the woman was being paid for her story" so let's in on it. Who paid her?

http://www.theage.com.au/national/labor-cries-foul-over-sex-scandal-20090902-f8fo.html

Jaybaby I missed something but some of your original words are quoted in my first post. I liked them and was going to save them for next time I was in an argument with a chick.

Gullible isn’t what I first think of when I think of politician’s aye. Do we protect the “stupid” ones now?

Is Della Bosca the dude that was part of the fuss with his wife at Iguana Joe’s on the Central Coast and she is a politician as well?

So do I guess who did what and to whom and when and if the media is reporting responsibly so that I can choose who the victim is?

Or do I do this:

Belly we might just be looking at two people who are not wonderful examples of human nature. The tart was right though, the wannabe home wreckers come out the worst and everyone usually feels sorry for the wife while the man is patted on the back at the pub.

Might not be wonderful examples but they are pretty typical.

Yes, Piper - that's the guy. He might even be your local member in the NSW parliament, while his wife Belinda Neal might be your Federal MP.

"Piranhagate", Pericles? An easy Freudian slip in the context of the current media feeding frenzy, I guess :)

Belly,
You say this bloke was honest, should not have lost his job and was the victim.

I understand your need to support your party, but I cannot agree with any of that.

How can a man cheat on his wife and be honest? Did he not make marriage vows. Should not a mans word be his bond?

He should lose his job, not just as Minister but out of Parliament. I don't want a liar and cheat representing me. He has shown he is far from trustworthy. Could he be trusted to make decisions without fear or favour and in our best interests?

In what way is he a victim? He is a mature man, supposedly capable of making rational decisions. If he can be swayed by a bit of fluff what would happen if a developer waved a fist full of notes?

I do not know what the women's motives were in disclosing the affair. I care not, and care even less about any other details of the affair. If he left her feeling vengeful, he gets no credits for ability to negotiate.

His actions clearly show character flaws in integrity and ethics. He has caused ridicule and embarassment to his party.

If media reports are correct, in that his colleges applauded him in the party room, it demonstrates just how little regard for ethics the rest of the parliamentary members have.

We rightly should expect far more from those we elect.

I agree with Banjo.
If Della Bosca cannot be trusted by his wife or family, then how are the general public supposed to trust him to make decisions for them?

The woman in the affair has been named now and her photo/video shown on our TV stations, so she is hardly anonymous or blameless in all this anyway.

Any woman willing to have an affair with a married man is hardly worth the press anyway, no matter who the man is.

Suze.

Point taken ,but what about Iguana Gate and Belinda Neal/Della Boska fiasco? "Don't you know who we are?" Reap what you sew.

NSW Govt is in the death throes of ethical debauchery.The really big concern is that; Do they refect the general values of the electorate at large?

Banjo that mate is weak, tell me who from the other side of politics has started so many threads,to flog their own team.
Power without glory, and my latest kicking NSW a basket case speak for my balance.
Note I do not speak for Belinda Neil, But Dela is as I said, he fought like a tiger to protect NSW from work cover.
Many who now him would say his love and defense of his wife has got him in more than his fair share of trouble.
Love CJM, quote yes TPP trust me he is your member and lost to us now.
While people like Joe Tripoly continue to be anchors to my party media intent on gut kicking has taken a better man.
Ask your selves true , do you know anyone who had extra marital affairs?
And how blind to think some one who is in show business did not prosper because she did not get the cash up front.
Publicity is cash to such.
No other way around this a woman intent on falling in love mostly would be far better of with a younger man, old blokes usually do not set the bed sheets on fire do they.
But they think they can, and see the offer not the truth.
I will get a bashing for this but Dela deserves better I can understand him looking into other paddocks, best leave that alone.
If you knew the man, if you took time to know his achievements, you may understand why Banjos views of my biases are so very wrong.
In a Parliament bound for the reverse of Glory we have thrown out the only true leader and those trampling him are lessor men, in the house, media, and just maybe have done the same them selves.

I find myself in a bit of a conundrum.

On one side I feel that Della Bosca got his just deserts, but on the other hand I feel that the prudery of the Australian public takes this just too far.

The Australian public is prepared to overlook the vast arrogance and abuse of position in the Iguana gate affair, but he has to resign over a personal matter.

As for Kate, either she is really thick, or naive, first dating a married man old enough to be her father, and then expecting him to sacrifice his career and family. But the act that puts her in the same league as pimps and hookers, is that after her blackmail failed, she then broadcast her affair deliberately to destroy his career and family that he chose over her.

Shadow Minister,

Almost all of you post is political motivated pap.
"I feel that the prudery of the Australian public takes this just too far." Australian prudery? What a shallow, sweeping,assessment of the public. I would suggest you watch TV with a critical mind and the ever escalating supply of sensation. Then consider how the most salacious have the biggest audience.

It was the media that wrote the story not the public....heaven forbid that capitalist concern(s) could have gone too far in search of ratings ultimately profit! In truth the article could have been handled far more sensibly, add to that they chose to RUN her emotive lashing out.

The most offensive part of your post is the slagging off of Kate. Naive, immature she may be, even a little vindictive at realizing she's been duped (Hello, one is a function of the other). However IMO the rest of your assessment is lower than an hemorrhoidal snail's anus.

An argument could be mounted that he abused his power etc. I would like 10c for every powerful exec who has used his position, promising to leave wife etc to wow a naive young female for his carnal dalliances.

However we don't KNOW what was in DB's mind. At best it's supposition based(? sic) on prejudice and incomplete facts delivered by a source whose accuracy, integrity and motives are highly suspect. One wonders what ever happened to the justice precept of 'innocent until PROVEN guilty'.

PS I don't give a toss which party he belongs too it's a personal issue. Liberal commentators on Q&A Last night proved beyond by linking it to the NSW govt (in toto) proved that there is no bottom to which parties will sink seeking petty power.

Erratum,
The PS should have said I don't give a toss which party he belongs too it's a personal issue involving a fallible individuals. His by virtue of his position should face the greater opprobrium. But not to this level.

Liberal commentators on Q&A Last night proved beyond doubt, by linking the issue to the NSW govt (in toto), that there is no bottom to which parties will sink seeking petty power.

Belly,
My views on this matter are not party motivated. I hold all parties and politicians in equal disdain. Frankly, I thank our federal constitution for stopping the possible excesses of politicians over the years.

We allow politicians generally not to be accountable for their promises and actions. Take 'No child shall live in poverty' or 'there will never,never be a GST'

Occasionally one gets caught out. I recall one Fed member who was outed because he cheated on his car allowance for a small amount. John Sharpe, I think it was, and another scandal about a TV set being brought in by a Minister. Funny that they consider 'misleading parliament' far more serious than lieing to people.

I recall the efforts by Abbott to find dirt on Pauline Hanson, because she was a threat to them, and still suspect collusion between him and the Beastie government to have her jailed. Yet since acquittal she has not received any compensation nor return of the $500,000 she paid back, to save them selling her home.

So much for the ethics of politicians. Am sure if one dug deep far more could be exposed.

In this case this politician has been shown to be a liar and a cheat so must go. We should up the standard for ethics.

Hey Examinator

What do you think of Graham's attempt to lay the blame on "predatory" females?

Obviously Kate deliberately set out to seduce DB, in order to publicly reveal his indiscretion, thus achieving.... now this is where I get bogged down, what exactly has she achieved for herself? Notoriety? Apparently there is no money involved. That she may have had strong emotional feelings for DB has not occurred to a 'certain subset of OLO males'.

And DB was a complete innocent? He was the one without power?

Graham thank you for clarifying for many of your posters (male and female) why you allow such latitude to some posters whose agenda is to denigrate women no matter what the topic.

I agree that Kate has not behaved well, but to claim she is a predator? Ooops your bias is showing (again).

For myself, DB proved himself a complete tosser with "iguana-gate" - such boorish behaviour that I would associate with arrogance and pretentiousness - these flaws indicate his incompetence as a Public Servant. As for his marital cheating - that is between himself and his family, has nothing to do with his ability as a politician. If every polly was forced to resign due to adultery, our halls would be empty.

Hence my previous point about Holt, Hawke et al, which no-one has commented upon.

This entire thread is nothing more than a pallid excuse to put the boot into women and the (admittedly) basket-case NSW Labor Party.

Congratulations, Graham; two birds, one stone

Examinator,

If you had spent any time overseas, you would realise that the Australian attitude to censorship, sex and nudity are restrictive and puritanical, surpased only by the islamic states and some parts of the USA.

The outcry over the teenage photo portraits on display was watched with amusement elsewhere in the world, and made me embarrassed to be Australian.

Kate was either stupid and naive or a vindictive alley cat.

Considering that she is a university educated 26 yr old veteran of several relationships, I think the former is unlikely.

The media has other outlets for these stories such as the Jerry Springer show.

As for your analysis "It was the media that wrote the story not the public" and "An argument could be mounted that he abused his power etc, "promising to leave wife etc to wow a naive young female for his carnal dalliances"

It just goes to show that you have delusions of adequacy.

Fractelle,
I was going to comment on your assertions about Holt, Hawke and Gorton but got side tracked on other things.

I do not recall any public accusations that these politicians were having extramarital affairs. Certainly do not recall them admitting to such, as in this case. If so my attitude would be exactly the same.

These politicians are mature people and are aware of exactly what they are doing. I do not believe they are subject to the same level of infatuation that young teenagers would be and are, or should be, held accountable. As I said no married person can have an affair without being a cheat and liar.

To me it is of no consequence that they had an affair. Single people are their own free spirit. But married persons break a trust if they do so. Unless the spouse accepts this, which is probably rare.

Then they have the hide to ask the electors to trust them.

I'm not influenced by morality or prudery, but I do think this affair speaks to the character and integrity of John Delabosca. A person who can exercise such poor judgement and deceive his long-term partner in the process is not the sort of person to hold high office.

If he's capable of such duplicity in his private life, he's also likely to lack the integrity needed to engage wisely in government decision-making. The fact he could so easily be turned by a younger face also indicates a lack of stability and a weakness of character.

His resignation is no loss to anyone, and I'm sure it was done more to spare himself from further personal embarrassment, than it was out of any more noble consideration of the embattled NSW government.

CJ

<< Indeed, given who he's married to, I imagine many people would understand why he might stray from the matrimonial boudoir. >>

I'm no fan of Belinda Neal either, but no person, man or woman, deserves to have the partner they've committed themselves to in marriage dump them so ignominiously for a younger model, even if only temporarily.

Jayb

<< She knew exactly what she was doing & how to go about making a quid. >>

I haven't been following this closely, but perhaps some evidence to prove that she was out to profit from the entrapment of a poor hapless male, as you imply, might be in order before you go slandering her reputation any further.

Fractelle,
To me the whole thing is salacious rubbish in the way it's being handled by the media and the political parties.

I admit I hadn't read his URL , I have now.
True, there are predatory women as there are power groupies. What we have here is a non professional (the journo) either shopping for an opinion to match his need for sensation or a very sloppy professional opinion.
I wonder how a professional without actually talking to a person can make such a definitive diagnosis. I suggest what we have here is an OPINION stripped of its professional qualifiers like; she (Kate) "COULD be..." and "on the surface her public explanation doesn't APPEAR to make sense" et al. The most likely explanation is that somewhere in the chain the opinion has been firmed up to make better copy.

I ignored it originally because it was secondary to the original point.

I think you may be over interpreting GY's motives.

I see a political expedience there but doubt the specific intention to be anti feminist as such.
It can be argued that the NSW Labor govt is on the nose so by defending DB (labor) in this way won't help them but may help muddy the water in a defense of conservative party members' indiscretions. Given the possible back lash it may have in the Qld context.

He knows that what goes around comes around and as a committed LNPer he doesn't want the same heavy handed club used against his members.

He also knows that at least 2 of the current crop have been guilty of the similar indiscretions. One in a VERY marginal seat.

Examinator: " I think you may be over interpreting GY's motives."

<< Predation and Della Bosca

There's an imbalance of power in the Della Bosca scandal that's been worrying me. While Della Bosca is theoretically the powerful one in the relationship between him and the woman known only as "Kate", the way in which it has been reported seems to me to unreasonably tip the balance away from Della Bosca to Kate.

Clinical psychologist Janet Hall on LiveNews put some flesh onto these concerns talking about "predator women" <<

Examinator, I think you are correct, GY didn't lay the boot into the Labor Party.

Hello Folks,

Well I'm back from my Sydney trip.

What's all the fuss about?

John Della Bosca has resigned.

His resignation has been accepted.

His future career path - well, I guess that rests
with the party - doesn't it?

The matter should now be - for him
and his wife to resolve.

As for who's to blame?

Only the people involved - really know.

Did Della Bosca really have sex on a couch in his
Parliamentary office?

Did he really miss a flight to a Meeting with Hospital
and Health Officials in Armidale to spend time with
his young lover?

Did he consistently cancel work commitments to see his
young lover and spend time with her?

If the answer is yes to even one of these questions -
then obviously his actions were affecting his job
as a Minister of the Crown - and he was right to
resign. It was his decision to make - and if
he's as smart as people claim he is - then he
made the right decision.

I doubt whether his political career is over.

As for the young lady - hopefully she'll move on,
and has learned something from all this.

Welcome back Foxy

Some common sense at last.

I agree it is a big fuss over nothing, and for the OLO editor to try and provoke an issue by claiming that the young woman is some kind of predator is poor form.

There are exemplary women and men; DB and his hapless young lover are not among them.

I do agree if DB's relationship did interfere with his work then it was correct for him to resign, however, we don't know for sure. None of us is really in a position to judge - but that's never stopped any of us before. However, I do draw the line at the original premise for this thread, it is something I would expect from someone like Formersnag, not Graham Young.

I'm disgusted with the appalling morals of the ''mistress''? She knowingly begins an affair with a married, public figure. It does not work out the way she expects and she feels aggrieved.

Instead of behaving like a mature adult and taking responsibility for her decisions and behaviour, she decides she is entitled to destroy the man and his career, and publicly humiliate his family, while keeping her own identity hidden.

Fractelle,

'That she may have had strong emotional feelings for DB has not occurred to a 'certain subset of OLO males'.'

Ah yes, strong emotional feelings is carte blanche to enact any type of revenge because someone didn't behave like you wanted them to. Grow up man. Oh, because she is a woman, her feelings are more important than his. She's the victim you know. In your little head, he's a man, hence has no feelings and just wanted sex, and she's a vulnerable woman madly in love and he's trodden all over her. This all goes back to the source of your problems with men.

'And DB was a complete innocent? He was the one without power?'

Yes he had a hell of a lot more to lose than the girl. It's pretty obvious who had the power, and who used that power. The girl.
Exactly what power had JDB used/abused?

This is a form of domestic violence. If an aggrieved man turns up at the office of an ex-lover and calls her a slut and she gets sacked, imagine your opinions then. What if he had naked pictures of her and decided to send them around. I bet you'd be playing a different tune then. Oh yes, but when a woman does it, she's the powerless victim.

Apparently it is 'fair play' for any woman whose relationship didn't work out to take adequate revenge. To trash property, throw a tanti and public humiliate the ex. There's no way she didn't know he was married, and no relationship is guaranteed to work out.

I know who has handled themselves with more dignity in this little episode that's for sure.

Banjo your comment that you understood I had to stick up for my party bought my reaction.
Some remarks about that restaurant thing are uninformed.
Dela stood by his wife, she may well have questions to answer he did what most men do.
Lets not get bogged down in stupidity.
At 26 years of age this is no young girl, surely for a start she knew he was wedded to his well known wife?
Why do we always blame the bloke?
What did she want from the relationship?
Not hot sex surely.
Did she like the look of his well slept in face.
On what evidence do Dela's detractors say he started this?
I know the bloke, he is no monster, not a woman chaser, he is a very good politician.
Now GY is a liberal, he is young enough to grow out of that.
But I see no kicking the ALP here, in fact I kick them in NSW here more than he ever has.
Wast of time however they look like a very dead cat that has been in the middle of the road for a very long time.
Maybe in John we lost our chance to beat the invisible man whats his name the leader of the equally dead opposition.

Belly,
"26 is no young girl", ya think?
Physically you're correct but beyond that hmmm.
My 27 YO son is/was (who knows) has/had a 26 YO (ex?) girlfriend. Complete with long distant phone hysterics at one AM; ringing the house phone because he wouldn't answer his mobile....he was in bed asleep; her trying to enlist his 23 yo sister as an ally; distorting conversations and emotional manipulations. The long distant war is enough to drive a man to drink (not that I really need one that what political parties are for) ;-).

They are both behaving like pubescent dills but that's their business.
My point is age is no guarantee of maturity.

DB's judgement must have been on holiday and left his ego in charge.
Common sense should have told him that this wasn't going to end well.

As for the GY's motives, well he didn't get where he is/was in the party without some amount of ruthless/cunning and anticipatory planning. It comes with the territory have a look at Minchin the moral munchkin or perhaps Mike Kaiser, the Bud fambly.

Foxy
Playing the occasional hooky is good to release pressure. As a snr Manager I would occasionally go MIA to regroup. A fishing rod and a pier for an hour or 4 used to do wonders for the longevity for some of my staffs lives. A stress relief from worrying where to bury their bodies. ;-)

Houel:”I'm disgusted with the appalling morals of the ''mistress''? She knowingly begins an affair with a married, public figure. It does not work out the way she expects and she feels aggrieved.

Instead of behaving like a mature adult and taking responsibility for her decisions and behaviour, she decides she is entitled to destroy the man and his career, and publicly humiliate his family, while keeping her own identity hidden.”

Are you being sarcastic Houel? You must be. You are aren’t you?

What you have said is exactly what Mistresses may choose to do and what all grown Men know they are capable of.

Once this path is the chosen one they have also knowingly chosen for themselves All Consequences and if particularly Man-like they will take it on the damn chin like a man should.

As for Miss Home Wrecker, bless her I believe Seeker could explain “a woman scorned”.

I know Fractelle, everyone might have been sincere, she may have believed him or loved him for awhile and he her for awhile – who cares.

Let me see if I understand correctly from some of the comments already made.

Mistress = slut, homewrecker and possibly predator

Husband = stud but still one of the boys (nudge nudge wink wink)who was a poor innocent led astray by abovementioned slut

Wife = hard done by but probably a nag or a shrew (thus probably deserves it)

My heart bleeds for Della Bosca to be led astray like that. The poor widdle diddums who was tempted by that nastie pastie blonde.

Geesh...what about personal responsibility - he was the one with a wife who had said love 'til death us do part.

What about the fact that he was off having sex with his mistress while he was supposed to be opening some health centre in NSW and missed his plane. What about the rights of the voters to be represented by a politician who has his eye on the ball ('scuse the pun).

Whether the paper has dealt with this fairly is a moot point - whenever do journos exercise judgement when the whiff of a scandal presents itself.

Frankly no-one really cares - pollies have been having affairs for years - but to make this young woman the fall guy for Della Bosca really takes the cake.

Politicians are not perfect nor are they saints, just ordinary people with flaws like any of us, but please lets not paint them as the poor innocents in this debacle.

I think we're asking the wrong questions here.

We vote them in on their ability to represent us.
What they do in their private lives -is their
business as long as it doesn't affect their ability
to do their job.
Look at Bob Hawke's track record with women - it
did not affect his becoming our PM.

In this case - the question that needs to be
asked is - did this affair impinge on his job
as Health Minister? That should be the only concern of
his Electorate. All the rest is a private matter -
which undoubtedly the media is going to milk for all
it's worth.

Pelican”Geesh...what about personal responsibility - he was the one with a wife who had said love 'til death us do part.”

C’mon now Pelican, we don’t know what the vows were, god only knows what sort of finger crossing would go on when two politicians hook up.

Foxy:”did this affair impinge on his job as Health Minister?”

He wasn’t taking any interest in some poor old dude left on a bedpan for days while he got his end away.

The question becomes, what sort of personal ethics do we wish for in a Health Minister? Or any Minister I guess.

Who really cares anyway?
Somebody went after him and succeeded but he has no-one to blame for it but himself.
As for whether it affected his role as a politican I believe that not only Hawke but Abraham Lincoln, Benjamin Disraeli and numerous others had the same flaw.
Perhaps we're on the verge of a new era of political assassination by sleaze. If so I imagine there will be a lot of nervousness on both sides of the House.

"C’mon now Pelican, we don’t know what the vows were, god only knows what sort of finger crossing would go on when two politicians hook up."

Good point Pied. Maybe it was 'til death do us part or until something better comes along'.

The murder of developer Michael McGurk makes this mid-life crisis story pale in comparison. New revelations that Mr McGurk held taped evidence about senior NSW Government visitors and pay-offs is probably something far more worthy of our angst.

If I was a NSW resident I would even vote Liberal to get this bunch out and that is saying something.

Pelican & Piper

Excellent comments.

There will always be starry eyed 20-somethings and boorish older men who think they are sex gods - such is life.

Pelican, I agree with you about the utter corruption of the NSW government - Labor show all the decadent symbols of being in power too long. I'm not sure if I could bring myself to vote Liberal to get rid of them and am mighty relieved I don't live in NSW.

As you say the murk surrounding the case of Michael McGurk (perfect name for a corrupt murder victim - but I digress), is worthy of debate. Unlike this pathetic attempt for a discussion.

BTW, currently in production is a telemovie, charting the life and times of Bob Hawke from the 70's to the 90's. And the production is not hiding Bob's predilection for the "ladies".

Was Bob Hawke the one that was on TV once crying saying he’d had an affair and blithering about wanting his wife to forgive him or she had forgiven him?

Who on earth is McGurk? That’d be the only name a chicken could pronounce?

Wobbles hon, you are so right, this matters not...nor does the other thing.[smile]

Dear Piper,

Personal ethics in a politician?

All we can hope for is that they do the job we
elected them to do - if they don't we can replace
them at the next election.

As for their personal ethics - how on earth will
we ever really know what they are - in a politician?

As Dennis Pryor cleverly points out in his booklet,
"Political Pryorities: How to get on top
of Australian Politics," :

They seem to vary - depending on the situation,
and there's always an explanation available.
They're all guilty of 'polspeak.' Pryor tell us that
this is, "The verbose,
hypocritical, mendacious and ambiguous language
that politicians and their hangers-on use.
It's fundamental method is to express everything so vaguely
and densely that polspeakers can extricate themselves from
difficulties by claiming not to have said what they did
in fact say. Look at election promises - they're what's
called "self-destructing statements." Following the election
the promises self-destruct because either the promise
becomes inoperative 'due to changed circumstances,' or
the promise is found to have been so cunningly worded that
it did not mean what it said and careless voters
misunderstood the terms of the original promise."

Pryor tells us that:

"For example the hidden agenda of a simple statement like -
'we shall abolish poverty,' reads as follows:

"We shall abolish poverty some time in the future, subject
to the state of the economy, if the Senate lets us, if
we haven't got more important things to do, if it suits
the international bankers and if there is no more important
measure necessary to win the next election."

Dennis Pryor writes with his tongue firmly lodged in his
cheek - but it does expose all the vanity and hypocrisy
of our leaders, bureaucrats, journos, and party hacks.
It rings true - just as the TV series, "Yes Minister,"
did. As someone summed up - "this is the voters'
revenge on the people who spend their taxes..."

Pied
Michael McGurk was a property developer who was assassinated in his own driveway in front of his young son.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/09/05/2677427.htm

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/my-lunch-with-a-dead-man-20090904-fbhm.html

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26026551-601,00.html

Foxy:”As for their personal ethics - how on earth will
we ever really know what they are - in a politician?”

Umm… we just did? Knowing what I know I wouldn’t vote for him. Ha! I can’t even vote.[smile]

“As Dennis Pryor cleverly points out in his booklet,
"Political Pryorities: How to get on top
of Australian Politics,"

Yeah he makes sense... this is how caseworkers talk to me. Do they get special training in this language before becoming a government employee?

Thanks Pelican… didn’t realise he was recently dead so feel a bit bad about the chicken comment now.

Ladies
Just a small quibble. We don't actually directly choose PM's or Ministers of the crown. Electorates choose representatives hence key seat focusing. The parties do the hierarchies more on internal allegiances and internal power groups than real management skills.

Unelected party (image making) trolls (IMT) manipulate people to think in terms of choosing the "more acceptable" leader, it's easier to sell than fully flesh out policies. Consequentially we are tending towards the presidential style election campaigns.

To do this the IMT create undue attention on the manufactured virtues of the PM and Ministers.

To change portfolio direction if one can't sell the party's "right" to power change the salesman ...new minister.

Ask your self has Liberal base ideological changed from that bottom dredging John to Mister Millions? Many of the leading sparklers are still in “executive” roles ( multiple self immolating bushes perhaps?). In fact the Libs went in search for a scapegoat and strategic failure rather than an ideological re-evaluation (same dodgy structure,new paint job and salesman/sales strategy). Is this democracy?
Just in case someone is thinking political bias....The other lot is the same.

On point... all of this image selling means that any individual's human fault is magnified and used by opposing FORCES to undermine the opposing party.

The interesting question is WHY, otherwise ordinary people, are able to score sex partners that were it not for their position of power or money wouldn't have a fart in a hurricane chance with.

As foxy alluded to... with power come responsibility ...in DB's case me thinks it has gone to his ego, over ruling his brain. To me the argument is akin to the lack of responsibility of the Footy boys. Their 'crime' is that they are more accessible and less prepared for the power of fame/notoriety.

Kate abandoned her common sense in favour of some immature dream and then probably simply lashed out.

IMO Neither party covered themselves with judgement/responsibility glory.

Foxy,
Eek don't you want me to have ANY Sleep? Another book for my reading list. another series of all nighters... reading. Ta..... I think.

Dear Examinator,

As always - insightful.

However - Dennis Pryor's satirical booklet of Australian
politics won't keep you up all night. It's more of a
dictionary - (delightfully witty and is designed to
be equally offensive to all parties). I keep referring
to it from time to time - because it's so spot on.
You may have trouble getting hold of it though - because
it's no longer in print.

Foxy

What good is that.....teaser....now I'm going be awake all night worrying about what I've missed :-(

*The interesting question is WHY, otherwise ordinary people, are able to score sex partners that were it not for their position of power or money wouldn't have a fart in a hurricane chance with. *

Ah Examinator, you should pay attention to the laws of nature :)

Why does the 90 year old oil billionaire marry the bargirl with
bit tits?

Human instinct of course, ignore it at your peril.

He's attracted by youth, with implies fertility, she's attracted by
money and power, which implies resources to feed the offspring.

I say Belly old boy I think it’s time for DB to go and I believe your “Tripoli” should be Tripodi.

In November 2008, the SMH reported that DB will not be given a chance to challenge the evidence of Reba Meagher that he offered her a murdered MP's seat on the day of the assassination.

Ngo supporter, Della Bosca, will not be called to give evidence to the judicial review into Phuong Ngo's conviction for ordering the murder of the Cabramatta MP John Newman on September 5, 1994.

"Nor will the Finance Minister, Joe Tripodi, be called to give evidence, a spokeswoman for the inquiry told the Herald yesterday.

"Ms Meagher, the former health minister who quit politics in September, told the Ngo inquiry this month that she and Mr Tripodi met Mr Della Bosca, then NSW Labor's general secretary, at 4pm on the day of the assassination.

"Mr Della Bosca had offered her one of two seats, including Cabramatta. By doing so, she said, he "came good" on his side of a deal they had struck - that she support his wife, Belinda Neal, in her candidacy for a Senate position.

"Ms Meagher, then 26 (ooohh..) said Mr Della Bosca called her about 11 o'clock that night, 90 minutes after Mr Newman was shot dead, and told her to decide by the next morning if she wanted Cabramatta.

"Her evidence appeared to contradict what Mr Della Bosca told Ngo's trial eight years ago, when he denied knowing of any plan to disendorse Mr Newman for the 1995 election.

Deputy Nationals leader, Adrian Piccoli told the Herald: "Clearly, someone is not telling the truth here - John Della Bosca or Reba Meagher. The person who can answer that is Joe Tripodi."

“Supporters of Australia's only convicted political assassin, Phuong Ngo, had "virtually ignored'' the strength of the case against him, the retired judge who investigated the verdict said in April 2009."

Another show of "poor judgement" by right faction, king statistician Belly?

Yabby
Perhaps a little too simplistic a generalization to be worth much.

Perhaps this "Assent of Wisdom" might help explain the context of your topic in the big picture.

Our instincts tell us to: Fight, kill, Exploit in order to survive.
Our culture tells us who to: Fight, kill, Exploit in order to belong.
Our intelligence tells how to: Fight, kill, Exploit in order to succeed.
But Wisdom tells us how NOT to: Fight, kill, Exploit in order to Live.
The latter combines and need the others to exist.

*Perhaps a little too simplistic a generalization to be worth much.*

Not so Examinator, as people commonly follow their instincts.

Clearly your little ditty is flawed, for many have absolutaly
no instinct to fight and kill!

Many a billionaire simply ignores the culture and thinks its wise
to marry the young bargirl with the bit tits and she clearly thinks
its intelligent to do so!

Packer, Pratt and all the rest, don't land up with rich young
mistresses for no reason, despite your ditty.

You asked the question, I gave you a valid explanation, which
you want to ignore. So ignore nature at your peril.

I'm going to write a book one day and call it "The world makes
perfect sense, you only need to understand it" . I'll send you
a free copy :)

Yabby, can there be a special section on women? Just for us men. Pleeeese.

Pro what ever yes I can not spell, glad it gave you a chance to be smug.
And your views about Dela are noted, do you have any good words about the idiot you told us about, she did her very best by the party by leaving it.
A little reality is called for surely, in country towns, city's, in fact ever place I have ever lived, affairs are an every day thing.
You do not have to look in Parliament house for them.
And yabby has It about right come look at the bloke, how would a 26 year old good looking woman fall for him?
She may well fall for his power, his wallet, or the publicity he bought but hot sex symbol he is not.
Lets not take the rumored tapes as true.
It is no secrete Labor is gone, none that some are on the take.
But the dead bloke may have a tape or not, he did have a lot of enemy's who had nothing to do with politics.
Even the most biased ,blind, dumb, of us know the NSW ALP is dead, a victim of self destruction, in fighting, taking a wrong turn after Carr left, being in fact driven by a pair of gooses who,s names I will not attempt to spell, but who have my party's blood and other parts on their hands.
Thanks prowhatever stand by for another chance to be smug.

Dear Yabster,

There are women out there who are attracted to
older men for other reasons beside the ones
you mentioned. Older men are more experienced
in knowing how to stimulate a woman - be it physical
or mental. They know which buttons to press - and
some women enjoy having an intelligent
conversation - and being made to feel special.

You can't really generalise about any relationship -
It's all very subjective - the young lady in question
in this case spoke about the minister's "eyes," " smile,"
and so on. From the sound of it - she really was
quite smitten by him. And, apparently he was by her.
(I'm not sure as to her bust size - whether that
was the actual attraction for him - perhaps just someone
totally different from his wife would have done?).

*There are women out there who are attracted to
older men for other reasons beside the ones
you mentioned*

Dear Foxy, yup I am sure there are some, how many
is the question :)

Perhaps when Howard Marshall met Anna Nicole Smith in Gigi's
strip club, 63 years her senior, the 2 billion $ simply did
not matter!. At 90, he lasted just 13 months of marriage,
so perhaps he died with a smile on his face.

Perhaps when old Lang Hancock married the Filipino maid
and left her a large chunk of his iron ore empire, it was
indeed true love! Etc.

I'll tell you what Foxy. When the Belly's of this world
start being chatted up by cute young blondes in their 20s
and it is not only the older rich and powerful who seem
to attract them, I will take much notice.

Meantime the odds are against you dear. One swallow
does not make a summer, but the world is full of older
and powerful rich men, with young mistresses or young wives.

Jay:”Yabby, can there be a special section on women? Just for us men. Pleeeese.”

You dirty sod.

One swallow does not make a summer, said the rich & powerful man to the showgirl.

She knew that & that's why she did him in.

Jay:"One swallow does not make a summer, said the rich & powerful man to the showgirl."

It is not one good quality that make a man good, said Kate to Della Bosca

Aww Belly I wasn’t being smug but I see you’ve gone from slagging “Kate” to calling Reba Meagher an idiot but that’s not what the irreverent Della Bosca thought when he allegedly rang Meagher to offer her Newman's seat 90 minutes after Newman was murdered.

The threat of an election loss in NSW has the potential for Labor’s shadowy figures to remain in parliament – including Tripodi but perhaps you should get out and about more and discover that the Labor politicians who’ve forgotten history are repeating it.

“Smack Express (Allen & Unwin), has recently been released, by a former assistant NSW police commissioner, Clive Small, co-written with the journalist and author Tom Gilling. The book paints such an appalling picture of Al Grassby and the Calabrian mafia that Grassby's “statue in Canberra is now an indictment of the ACT Labor Government's stupidity and cynicism.” And Mr Tripodi, it appears, is up to his eyeballs in it too.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/monuments-to-honesty-and-deceit-20090215-881s.html?page=3

Mr. Bruce Provost, a retired National Crime Authority senior investigator, indicated in 2005 that he had no doubt that the Whitlam government Minister was paid to commit crimes and do favours for Calabrian Mafia members operating in Australia and that the National Crime Authority bowed to political pressure not to fully investigate his Mafia links.

http://www.nationalobserver.net/2005_winter_ed1.htm

Dude this party ain’t goin' to be poppin’. You should establish a clean up crew now. Already WA Liberal Premier, Barney Rubble’s on the loose and you guys are losing your grip on the greasy totem pole.

Come now yabby at ALP conferences and such on my way in and out of the AFL club young Lady's do talk to me.
I thought it must be my good looks , maybe the suit? no wallets are bigger in men who wear suits.
And likely to be used more if half drunk.
This thread started with GY highlighting media behavior.
And we all if we look can see we are no different.
Our behavior is no different.
On the smallest if any evidence we have seen the ALP blamed in the death of a man described in todays Sydney Herald as a stand over man and gangster.
Todays Sunday Sydney Telegraph has a story confirming my view Della had a plan, a strong commitment and plan for NSW it lays in dust because he had an affair?
How many men have never had an affair?
How many women?
Before marriage's surely we all did?
After?
I see nothing so very wrong in sex.
How can we avoid the fact it is the basic driving force behind almost every thing we do?
Those young girls at kings cross do not get my wallet, I understand my ego tells me lies, no groupies follow unionists, well yes they do but boiler suited females rarely beat bikinis.
Yes NSW is a basket case yes Labor is self destructing but can conservatives see a leader on their side? a policy maybe?
I see a train wreck waiting to happen.

Yabby
If your rash generalizations get any wilder and wider we'll need to import a tranquillizer Cannon to subdue them and an industrial suction pump for liposuction to bring them back to believability.
You simply read too many trash rags and now you believe they're real life.

Wake up and smell the coffee the media publish salacious stories of young girls and men BECAUSE it's different, not the norm and therefore can be sensationalized. Imagine trying to sensationalizing an average man and woman of the same age getting married.

Current research clearly shows that the 'other woman' is vastly more likely to be an average neighbour type not some younger woman.
Sure there are trophy wives/hubbies and predatory types but far more likely to be from the same social and age bracket (demographics). Do the maths how many older males and gold digger type wives in politics/Hollywood. Your assertions simply simply aren't supported by the facts.

I can think of at least 10 valid reasons(generally accepted by professionals and research) why the great distances in the ages of partners occur.

Both CJ and I have urged you to get some wider (realistic) perspective on your pet subject.

I wonder how Yabby's statistics and theory holds up in regards to rich women and toy boys. It can't be fertility as the attraction for the men, and it can't be money for the woman she is already rich.

Using examples like Anna Nicole and decrepit old men with big wallets is to select a cartoon caricature anomaly as indicative of real life.

Foxy is quite right, there are many reasons why women would want to choose an older man. Maturity is a big factor.

Just popped in to wish all of you who
are fathers - HAPPY FATHER'S DAY!

Examinator has again summed up pretty much what
I've been trying to tell Yabby - that we can't
generalise about people.

Anyway, have a great day!

*Current research clearly shows that the 'other woman' is vastly more likely to be an average neighbour type not some younger woman*

Well of course it does, because most people are not rich and
powerful, but normal. That is my point, amongst rich and powerful
men, the odds are quite different.

*I've been trying to tell Yabby - that we can't
generalise about people. *

Foxy, we can clearly make interesting observations. Like that
on average men are taller then women. Plenty of exceptions, plenty
of ifs and buts, but its still true.

Now if you are a rich, powerful older bloke, having a young thingy
on your arm is rather common. Not so for the average non rich,
non powerful bloke.

Fact is, I'll re post Examinator's line, he agrees that rich and
powerful people attract partners way out of their league.

*The interesting question is WHY, otherwise ordinary people, are able to score sex partners that were it not for their position of power or money wouldn't have a fart in a hurricane chance with.*

Foxy and Pelican once again try and pass judgement by seeing the
world through their own eyes, rather then what is happening out
there in the real world.

“Now if you are a rich, powerful older bloke, having a young thingy
on your arm is rather common. Not so for the average non rich,
non powerful bloke.”

"Rather common?" Is that so Yabby? Now please advise how many of the richest people in Australia have “ a young thingy on their arm.” There’s a good boy. Oh and this exercise could help keep you away from the Fantasy Land in which you dwell - Hugh Hefner and the Playboy bunnies eh?:

• Harry Triguboff
• John Gandel
• Andrew Forrest
• Anthony Pratt
• Gina Rinehart
• Kerr Neilson
• Kerry Stokes
• Lindsay Fox
• James Packer
• Frank Lowy
Blair Parry-Okede

Dickie dear, your list is rather meaningless, in that it contains a
number of younger blokes and a woman! Perhaps the argument is
going over your head.

As a matter of interest, Paul Hogan, Rupert Murdock, Mel Gibson,
Bob Hawke, all took younger wives. Gerry Harvey, Bill Wiley, Kerry
Stokes, John Singleton all have/had younger wives.

In fact my point is quite well made by David Buss in his
"Evolutionary Psychology", in quite some detail. I note that he
has published a few pages of it on the net.

http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/Homepage/Group/BussLAB/pdffiles/Human%20Mating%20Strategies.pdf

As to the role of mistresses, well check your history. They have
been as common as chips, for all those who could afford them,
including kings, politicians, even a pope!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mistress_(lover)

So clearly across cultures, women tend to be attracted by status
and resources, men by youth and fertility. But read what Buss
has to say on the subject for yourself.

From Yabby’s link:“In summary, the relative investment of the two sexes drives the operative components of sexual selection, with the high investing sex being selected to be the most discriminating and the lower investing sex being selected to be the most competitive with members of their own sex.”

So the males fight to be selected by females. I like it.

I think Foxy awhile ago posted something about “parental investment”.

But Yabby that is all too simple when talking about the Bosca & Bint situation aye. It seems a few people think that he was the one with more choice and obviously more responsibility for a choice made for himself, his family and the people he worked with.

I was possibly one of them but now I’m waiting to see which way the conversation goes.

Yabby

Good grief man nobody is say that it isn't happening. You really do need to read a little more thoughtfully. You miss read the question that set you off and you continually pick statements out of context But that aside.
All everyone is saying is that there are a host of other reasons why a woman might be attracted to a male (regardless of the ages of the involved).

The primacy you give to 'animal instincts' can't be proven as being the only or even the main reason.
What I've read of the article says these are tendencies NOT absolutes.
When will you finally acknowledge that in the discipline of your interest there are 'apparent' indicators but NEVER is there any reference to IMMUTABILITY as in a LAW.

Generalities and stats on which most papers are based on don't show squat about specific INDIVIDUAL. Therefore your assertions to answering the “why?' regarding this or any specific situation is not really the issue.
At best it is a SINGULAR FACTOR IN A COMPLEX CONCOCTION that make people do what they do .

No one can know Kate's motives were/are without more information and the level of importance your 'animal instincts' played without testing.
Frankly we've thrashed this to death and I'm bored with it . Your obsession/instant answers for ALL human behaviour is your problem.

Dear Yabby,

The scenario of the older men dating a younger
woman has been around for years and will likely
never die. However wealthy men aren't stupid.
They know when they're being played - and it
may suit them for a time. However, I imagine that
their preference would be for another
set of women who truly enjoy the company of the older
man. These are the women who
respect the qualities the older man possesses -
qualities that enabled the older man to
have achieved and reached his position of power and
money - and its these relationships that develop into
long-term relationships that usually work.

It's not only older men that are dating and marrying
younger partners. Women are doing it as well.
For example -

Demi Moore - 40
Ashton Kutcher - 25

Deborah Lee Furness - 43
Hugh Jackman - 34

Cameron Diaz - 31
Justin Timberlake - 22

Madonna - 44
Guy Ritchie - 34

Joan Collins - 69
Percy Gibson - 36

Susan Sarandon - 56
Tim Robbins - 41

Goldie Hawn - 57
Kurt Russell - 50

Naomi Watts - 35
Had an affair with Heath Ledger - 24

Carrie Fisher - 46
Had an affair with a 23 year old

Sharon Stone is fifteen years older
then her current lover - Adrien Brody

As I said earlier - it's all a matter of personal
choice - for both males and females.

Perhaps DB's resignation had nothing to do with his affair and was a convenient out. I guess further inquiry will tell.

Yabby
Like Foxy I am not saying your scenario does not happen. I just don't paint it as the norm - even for powerful men with money.

I am not totally knocking your biological determinism outlook as a whole as I subscribe to it to some extent. Humans are able, with our larger brains, to invent, learn and thus evolve. What constitutes 'the norm' varies across cultures. This suggests it is not all biology but other factors at play. I do hate it when some people use the biological argument to excuse bad behaviour such as affairs, as though we also do not have the capacity to make value judgements. My Biology made me do it.

I would also hate to see men and women become so inextricably identical but for our physiology - genitals. Call me old fashioned, but I think like all animal species, humans are biological beings and there are two different genders. We may have a higher brain function but there is no comfort for me in the thought of morphing of gender. This is not the same as gender equality issues when it comes to work and family although it is probably naive not to expect it influences our behaviour - especially on OLO on gender issues.

I keep thinking I am not expressing myself as well as I would like but nevertheless.

“Now if you are a rich, powerful older bloke, having a young thingy
on your arm is rather common."

Why thank you Yabby. So out of the eleven richest and most successful people in Australia, only one has selected "a young thingy" though one would hardly describe this intelligent lady as a "young thingy" would one?

Unlike the very unsuccessful DB, the majority of successful people don't house their brains in their trousers by preying on "young thingies" during working hours!

Women have both cerebal hemispheres more connected by neurons than men.This is why they are good at muliti-tasking and talking.Men unfortunately have one hemisphere totally dedicated to power via the penis.Logic requires blood for thinking and man apparently does not have enough blood to think and indulge in erotica at the same time.

*So out of the eleven richest and most successful people in Australia*

Dickie dear, inheriting lots of money, neither makes people old nor
successful, more like fortunate.

Fact is that of Australia's top 4 businessmen who made it, ie Pratt,
Packer, Murdoch and Lowy, three that we know of, have/had either
a mistress or young wife on their arm. 3/4 does indeed mean it
is rather common.

The truth about mistresses often only surfaces later, when everyone
is squabbling about the estate.

*Generalities and stats on which most papers are based on don't show squat about specific INDIVIDUAL*

Examinator, the question which you posed and I answered, was not about
an individual. Go and reread it. I supplied you with the answer,
confirmed with much statistical evidence from David Buss.

As to your straw-man arguments, frankly I can't be bothered, so have
fun. I know exactly what I have claimed and if you want to turn it
into something else due to stupidity or deviousness, that is your
problem, not mine.

Foxy, yes I know some American women who can afford it, are knocking
off younger guys. We will always have exceptions around. That does
not change the findings which Buss highlights, which are that
across cultures, men on average pay more attention to youth and
looks and females on average pay more attention to status and
resources. All this at a level which is statistically highly
significant.

At the very start of the thread the question was asked, should Della have lost his job as a result of this.
We got into his shame at using such a young sweet thing, betraying his wife, not being a nice bloke.
For several reasons, he is a politician, he is a Labor minister, he once had a blue in a restaurant, Labor may be involved in the murder of a stand over man.
Well we have our answer, here in this thread.
The media is a mirror.
It is no worse or better than us, we no better than it.
And men, all of us, are much more likely to be in the wrong than women.
Or do we lurch away from reality at the drop of a hat in matters of sex?
If we do not understand both men and women make mistakes in matters of love, every day we are kidding ourselves.
I see near xenophobia in the way we treat politicians, they too are human.
To consider every one of them as less worthy is blind stupidity.
Yabby move over, its time I shared the kicking you have been getting, like you I am not refusing to see every day life as it is, if only I could write of a nearby village called Payton place by all who live there

Dear Yabby,

You really need to do a bit more research.
Today women don't need men to support them -
they're quite capable of supporting themselves.
They are also demanding more from relationships -
thus younger men are also a drawcard - they're
more flexible (no pun intended) and not set in
their ways as older men tend to be. To-day it is
a question of choice. People are simply not prepared
to settle for whatever they can get any more - as
previous generations tended to do.

It's not only a few 'American' women that are finding
younger men attractive - as you seem to think.
The Bureau of Statistics gives a very different
picture to the one you're presenting.
As for the four men you mentioned - From Pratt to
Murdoch - their choices were not made up of - the
usual 'young things,' that you're painting. A different set
of circumstances came into play with each case - The women
they chose had special characteristics ( and added
attractions on offer) - but as I said - do your research.

Hey Belly. The men blame the woman because they can see a young pretty woman having power over an older male? The females blame the man because they can see that an older male compared to a young female would have more influence?

Humans and ages, money and gender... No matter which way you mix those things up you’d still find two people sleeping together. Older broke chick and a young wealthy man – still happens like Foxy is saying and you don’t often find that one pulled out the others finger nails to convince them.

I automatically lay blame at the married person’s feet and hope they trip over it in to a pit of poisoned darts.

Yabby's points all make sense at that basic level all humans come from and then Exam made sense at the next level far as I could see.

Politicians make decisions that seem to be more about themselves than the general public. I don’t hear much good stuff aye.

Arjay, you rock.

Belly,
It seems you still think that Della Bosca should not have lost his job. I disagree, and think he should be out of Parliament as well, simply because he has shown himself to be dishonest and not trustworthy.

What do you think of the situation regarding John Brogden a few years ago. I may not have all the details correct, but I think he stupidly made advances to a female journalist and she exposed this. This meant he was trying to cheat on his wife. So not any sympathy from me.

His situation was that he was a 'lay down mazaire' to win the next election and become NSW Premier.

Would you, or did you, blame the media for his downfall at the time?

We put our trust in politicians to do the right thing by us and it is dissappointing to see them lie.

Where do we draw the line in what lies politicians can tell?

John Howard told more lies than any politician I can remember - and they were directly related to his job as a politician. I don't recall Banjo calling for his dismissal.

It seems Yabby and a few others have diverted into discussion on human mating habits. I have a cocept on this that i would like opinions on.

From my (limited) experiences in long term sexual relationships, I perceive a 'heat' period in womens menstrual cycles, along the lines that other mamuals have. This maybe more pronounced in some women than others, but I have never seen the matter refered to by womens sex advisors, in mags or books. I have simply noticed that my partners have been more receptive at some times. Maybe with the onset of ovulation?

If there is a 'heat' period in the cycle, it seems men have lost the ability to detect it. It also may account for some womens acceptance of male advances at times and not others. I have also heard some women express surprize at their, normally conservative, friends behaviour toward a male stripper at a Hens night. Could 'heat' account for this?

Would anyone care to put forward their thoughts on this, or if they are aware of any studies that have been done.

'John Howard told more lies than any politician I can remember ' Some people get more forgetful and selective in their hearing as they age.

“And men, all of us, are much more likely to be in the wrong than women.”

That’s an honest admission Belly and in regards to Labor Party cabinet ministers, I must say I agree, however, when I referred to Meagher’s contradiction of DB’s account over the Newman murder, you claimed she was an idiot.

And factional warlords have all but destroyed the ALP and in so doing, have lessened the voices of women - women who are regularly burnt up and spat out by the party.

I’m reminded of the foreign star Labor introduced to its galaxy - former Democrat Leader Cheryl Kernot.

Kernot claimed “there was a combination of suspicion and hostility from some in the party, and a lack of mentoring or legitimisation of me on the front bench by Kim Beazley, who made a lot of promises to me that didn’t eventuate. I was promised that I’d be part of their strategy group, but I never was.”

Gareth Evans, the former foreign minister and deputy Labor leader, lied to Parliament about the five-year extramarital affair he was having with Cheryl Kernot.

While the affair was well known within Canberra’s political circles, Simon Crean said he'd accepted Mr Evans's 1998 rebuttal of the affair in Parliament and had never noticed anything untoward between Mr Evans and Ms Kernot.

Kernot suffered some sort of a breakdown after Laurie Oaks exposed the affair to a harsh public. Tail between legs, she was reduced to living a life of relative obscurity in London.

In June 2008, Australian prime minister Kevin Rudd appointed Gareth Evans (endowed with an "Officer of the Order of Australia" in 2001) co-chair of the International Non-Proliferation and Disarmament Commission. In July 2008, Gareth Evans was selected as an inaugural fellow of the Australian Institute of International Affairs. In October 2008, he was awarded an Honourary Doctorate of Laws from the University of Sydney.

There remains no demarcation between private and political life within the Labor ranks where the patriarchal festering sore of lies and corruption is gangrous. To whom will honest Labor supporters turn now, Belly?

Banjo that is so weird, no I don’t have the answer. But I do know that at boarding school all 8 girls I shared a dorm with were on the exact same cycle.

I thought all that stuff had to do with the sense of smell (Yabby will know) and now we use soap and deodorant it’s kinda killed our ability to pick it up?

But yes, there certainly is a more receptive time that appears to occur regularly with obvious symptoms. If men knew the secret they could save a fortune in gifts that aren’t going to work anyway. Wonder if it is still the same post menopause and why on earth I’ve never thought about this before now.

Could be used by Kate as a defense even "I was on heat". [cringe] Maybe not.

And the boarding school thing, wonder if there is a “dominant” female that changes everyone else or if it is a collective decision.

Come Banjo, with respect.
You and I are on opposite sides of the fence, yet we often agree.
Surely this time you have your foot firmly in your mouth?
Brogden, believe me, WAS A VICTIM of his own party.
The information that saw him end his political life and, well leave that, came from slugs within his party.
Mate every one knows that surely?
What Lady's and gents, if Mrs Della had an affair.
Duck, dive but reality stalks you, Della was maybe the last and only hope the Wil Robinson's of NSW ALP could turn the worst defeat in our history into the second worst.
IF just say those of us who have had an affair, surely some one has?
And we , yep me too a Long time ago, lost our job.
Had headlines about it all over the press?
PS my relation ship suffered by both being unfaithful.

Pied Piper,
I was thinking more along the lines of:- "Yeah mate, I can go fishing with you this weekend, cause I know the missus won't want me around the house".

Or:- " Sorry, the wife has plans for the weekend"

Knowing could be usefull.

Banjo’s diary Sept, 7th, 2009

She was standing in the kitchen, preparing our usual soft-boiled eggs and toast for breakfast, wearing only the T-shirt she normally slept in. As I walked in, almost awake, she turned to me and said softly,

'You've got to make love to me this very moment.'

My eyes lit up and I thought, 'I am either still dreaming or this is going to be my lucky day!' Not wanting to lose the moment, I embraced her and then gave it my all right there on the kitchen table.

Afterwards she said, 'Thanks,' and returned to the stove.

Happy, but a little puzzled, I asked, 'What was that all about?' She explained,

'The egg timer's broken.

Banjo, in answer to your question, Buss covers that one. It seems
that at ovulation, women report an increased interest in sex. I
read another study once which came to the conclusion that they also
wear more revealing clothing, even if not aware of it themselves.
But I can't quote the source, I can't remember lol, maybe somebody else can.

Foxy, you think I should do more research? Did you even bother to
read the 12 pages that Buss wrote? He did research in 37 nations!

If you are really interested in this stuff, his "Evolutionary
Psychology" is full of facts and data, all with references.

Of course a woman can go out and earn her own money and raise
a family. But its frigging hard work and more easier said then done!

Most women prefer to spend some time with their kids and work when
they have to, part time or whatever. I've had plenty of soul
searching discussions with females and even today, the fact that
their partner is a good provider, mattered when it came to finding one.

For good reasons too. Its alot frigging easier!

*The women
they chose had special characteristics*

ROFL I am sure they did! I am sure they had many talents, but they
were also much younger. When I see blokes commonly taking mistresses
much older then themselves, I will believe you, but its rather
uncommmon. Fact is that yes, as they get older, men are more
attracted to younger women sexually, read the studies that Buss did.

Just look around you how much women spend on trying to look younger.
Do you think they do that just for fun?

A Canadian nurse friend of mine used to work in a clinic on Vancouver
Island, where they did cosmetic surgery. The place was chock a block
with rich American women in their 50s and 60s, terrified that hubby
was going to take off with a younger woman, so they were spending up
bigtime!

Foxy, you keep looking at the world through your eyes, rather then
what is going on out there.

Yabby:”Just look around you how much women spend on trying to look younger.
Do you think they do that just for fun?”

This is changing slowly though isn’t it Yabby? Men now also spend a lot of money trying to look more attractive and younger as they age.

There’s more competition now with the denser population thing? Media

Foxy
Don't let what Tabby's over-interpretation of Buss' findings bother you. If you're interested search some of the LATER papers on those findings.

BTW Neither I or CJ an ex Anthropologist are arguing that there isn't some apparent truth in Buss' findings or in brain chemistry arguments but what is disputed is the primacy Y gives it. If you read the article you will notice that Buss doesn't say anything stronger than his findings are a tendency . As you know stats are about generalities and aren't predictive. Also there are numerous articles that offer alternative explanations/ criticisms of the conclusions which dilute “Y's gold standard law” and the effect.
Y is saying in essence when it storms we( all races) run for cover because brain chemistry on it's own tells us to. When in reality there maybe a gazillion other reasons e.g. the rain might ruin that Christian Dior dress or $ 150 hair style you typically have or there's lightening and or hail coming.

I wonder if Yabby isn't playing a stir em um up game.

Anyway did you see media watch last night....many of the claims made in the media turn out to be well.....oh bugger it ….LIES and beat ups particularly his missing the plane and access to Parliament house etc.

The same as were in the story of the 15 yo at Mullumbimby high whose death was wildly misreported as being stomped, kicked and attributed to a culture of violence...all....BULL.

Foxy also read ABC's take on the shot McG.

GY any questions about media ethics, accurate and factual reporting?

Belly,
When I said that i may not have all the details correct, I was, and am working from memory.

Am I not correct in saying that Brogden made advances to a female journalist and she disclosed this. Now you mention it, I recall a couple of other Lib party members having something to do with it, but do not recall what. There is more dirty politics within parties than between them.

The common connection with Brogden to that of Della Bosca is that they both resigned because they brought embarassment to themselves and their party by being dishonest to their wives.

*The common connection with Brogden to that of Della Bosca is that they both resigned because they brought embarassment to themselves and their party by being dishonest to their wives.*

Banjo, on this one I will have to agree to disagree with you, for
in my humble opinion, relationships are complicated affairs and
not so easy to judge from the outside, so I normally don't try.
In my opinion, they are also between the two parties, so private
affairs.

So should I condem Bill Clinton, because he took advantage of a
blow job being offered by a young admirer? Sheesh, Hilary might
be great for mental stimulation, I could be wrong be personally
I don't see her crawling under the desk and giving him a thrill.

So people condem Clinton for his fling, then welcome Bush as prez.
Ok, he didn't have a fling that we know of, but do you really think
that America and the world were better off?

If it had been up to me, I would have paid Monika a high salary to
give Bill his thrills, so that he could then focus on real and
important issues. The world would have been a better place for it.

What if a wife uses sex as a weapon? What if a wife has no interest
in her husband? etc.

I just think that relationships and sex lives are private and complicated issues and should be kept out of politics.

I judge politicians by their politicial judgements, not by how
they got their rocks off and why.

PS, when I was married, I was actually faithfull to my wife, for
my own reasons and how they related to our relationship. But
others relationships and situations are just too complicated for
me to try and pass judement, I would not even try to do so.

Yabby,
We will have to agree to disagree because I fail to see how a married person can have an affair and still be deemed to be trustworthy.

It is not the act of sex that is the problem, it is the fact that they lie and cheat. So where do you draw the line? What ammount of dishonesty are you prepared to accept from a politician.

Do you think that a politician should be outed because he cheated on his car allowance. What if a poly was caught shoplifting, last i heard shoplifting was stealing.

Lets not have double standards and we should expect high standards from those we elect to represent us.

*Do you think that a politician should be outed because he cheated on his car allowance. What if a poly was caught shoplifting, last i heard shoplifting was stealing.*

Oh absolutaly they should be outed, I see those as actual crimes!

Banjo, I just happen to know quite a few marriages where people
live in the same house, have kids together, have shared business
interests etc, where unravelling all that is just too darn difficult
so they stay in their marriages, but are in fact quite lonely people.

IMHO it is just too difficult for me to pass judgement on these
people and condem them for having a fling on the side. I just don't
know the circumstances and I frankly think it is their business, not
my business.

There is actually an old joke about this, " why is the bride smiling
as she walks down the alter? -cause that's the last head job that
she ever gave :) "

The sad reality is that people often do change once that ring is on
their finger and in some circumstances its just not so easy to
walk away, for all sorts of reasons.

I know quite a few farmers, who if they decided to split, would have
to give up farming, as they would lose half their land and become
unviable. That would kill em, its not just their livelyhood but
their way of life. If the wife has given them the cold shoulder for
the last 5 years or more, should I condem them? I don't.

As I mentioned, I was faithfull whilst I was married for my own
reasons, but if I had a wife who tried to use sex as a weapon
or whatever, I would see that as so unfair and immoral that I
would be actively looking to play up!

So I'm not going to pass judgement about a politician, male or female,
based on their sexual habits. They make enough other decisions for me
to do that.

Banjo,

If I recall correctly, John Brogden was hounded out of his position as then Leader of the Opposition not because he was involved in any marital infidelity, but because he was accused of having made a tasteless remark with respect to the wife of the then Premier, Bob Carr, as having been a 'mail order bride', at a Liberal Party function.

As Belly so correctly observes, this erstwhile relatively 'unpublic' remark (in my opinion of the character of 'barracks humour') was seized upon by SLUGS IN HIS OWN PARTY and then PUBLICISED by THEM, presumably with a view to either terminating his political career, or because it looked like he might lead his party to electoral victory at the 'wrong time'. (I'd back the latter.)

I would suspect that both Bob Carr and his wife may have both had quite a degree of sympathy for John Brogden after the event, despite the insensitivity at the time of his reported remarks. Brogden's seemingly instinctive reaction to it all becoming public was far more honourable than that of many in 'politics' these days. A quick analysis would say that his 'party' (that of the 'slugs') did not deserve him. That's not intended to elevate what he himself clearly recognised was tasteless and hurtful, but merely to emphasise the general level to which many in the claque of a party to which he 'belonged' had, and has, sunk.

As to how this all may relate to the political career of John Della Bosca, I can only say that as an unashamed practitioner of barracks humour (amongst those who've been, my lads, and seen, my lads) I see certain parallels with that of the seeming end of the political career of John Brogden.

I question as to whether both the 'Iguanagate affair' and this latter affair have attained the publicity they have because John Della Bosca was perceived to be standing in the way of the fire-sale sell-off of NSW electricity generation assets. I thinks OLO contributors have to lift their sights a bit.

What say you?

Whether politicians resign or not if their past conduct warrants it they will usually suffer at the hands of the electorate next poll, but only if an acceptable alternative is available.

Perhaps a broad code of conduct for ministers and others holding public positions is warranted. - Although for most politicians it would still be like trying to trap a rat in a wire netting cage.

Whatever happened to the NT govt's proposed code of conduct for ministers and other elected members? - It was proposed after the long tongue incident.

Yes that is the story FG every word true, his own party right murdering the left, high on Howard's wins, killed him of.
He tried to kill himself, how very sad.
Do not remind me of how ad the conservatives are in NSW I am not blind.
Do not over and over again remind me of the fate of government workers under such a government, I am not stupid.
And John Della Bosca, was a life raft, he was our last chance.
Yet unable yet to think for ourselves, to ignore the medias mindless over heating of the story far too many of us piled on and kicked him.
Armed as Banjo was, with half truths, half the information, we helped kill a man who was at least a politician,who at least had plan.
I will not fall for the party line, truth is few will, this horrible mob, led by a man who is so lost, no my party first, remember the eureka stockade, I will remember.
Woolongong, Della, why write a list, I will be here for a thousand posts.
But review your thoughts, each of you, if your sins became headlines, be honest, sex life has nothing to do with politics.

Belly:”But review your thoughts, each of you, if your sins became headlines, be honest, sex life has nothing to do with politics.”

Why did Della Bosca quit then Belly? He must have thought it had something to do with politics.

I googled Belinda Neal but found not one criticism of her husband quoted. If like in the other threads with it being stated over and over that everything is driven by feminism these days, wouldn’t these feminists be spewing on her?

The Predator is the name given to the unmanned drones driven by former play station jocks, used to deliver Hellfire missiles into Taliban homes. John Della Bosca has simply beaten a strategic retreat. The properties that make a man, namely that he likes the females of the species cannot be totally suppressed and one of the things the Good Lord put into us, to ensure the continuation of the species is lust.

A wise wife never lets her man leave home with his seminal vesicles full. Any man worth his salt with a decent sex drive, needs to be unloaded at least every second day. This is why marriage was invented. Some men have stronger drives than others. Usually a strong sex drive goes with a higher intelligence and often with a greater drive in all things. We are hypocritical if we think that a bit of sex on the side is going to impair the ability of a man to do what is right for this State.

There are predators in the media, but there are other predators, in the shadows behind them These predators are hell bent on destroying everything we have held dear and concentrating all power in the hands of a few people so they can get super wealthy, and may the devil take the hindmost. These predators buy their way into favor. A spell on the back bench will not hurt John Della Bosca. He will get time to think, and at fifty four, has time.

Nathan Rees is so overloaded with the worries of running New South Wales, he has no time to sit back and ponder just how he can fix it right up and stick it right up the Liberals. Tell you what Nathan. Abolish the Supreme Court Act 1970 and restore the common law, and give democracy a go. Let mother nature fix what man cannot. It will not be popular with Crown Law, but they are totally misled and misguided in any event. Make John Della Bosca Attorney General and let him rip into the legal profession. Keep him busy.

Peter the Babbler: << Any man worth his salt with a decent sex drive, needs to be unloaded at least every second day. This is why marriage was invented. >>

I thought that's why masturbation was invented.

“A wise wife never lets her man leave home with his seminal vesicles full. Any man worth his salt with a decent sex drive, needs to be unloaded at least every second day. This is why marriage was invented. Some men have stronger drives than others. Usually a strong sex drive goes with a higher intelligence and often with a greater drive in all things.”

Every second day?
DamnittohelllikeIcanbebotheredputtingouteveryseconddaywhenIamtiredandhaveallthethoughtsofwashingneedingfoldingandwhichkidshavevisitsthenextdayandinthemorningIreallyjustwantotbloodysleepbecauseanyminutesomelittlepersonisgoingtowakeupandinteruptusanywayIreckonthisissomechauvinisticplottoexhuastwomenandifhehasallthatdamnenergywhyhasn’tthepoolbeencleanedinweeksorthebloodyhousebeenbugsprayedI’dratherhiresomelittlebinttodothejobformeifitsaboutsomephysicalrequirmentmenhaveratherthanwhotheyaredoingitwithGoodpointthoughCJnothinglikeabitofselfservice.

You’re not making men look all that clever or in control though Peter.

I did strike some Arab mums that believed their poor boys would explode if they didn’t have a release regularly – this was the reason given for raping houseboys and maids being okay.

Sex is almost as good as religion when it comes to generating traffic on OLO. It sells too. Why is it that we are completely saturated with sexually explicit advertisements, girls in outfits that were banned from most papers, sixty years ago, yet get all upset because a bloke gets lucky.

They have a word for blokes who masturbate, CJ Morgan, and I dont think John Della Bosca is one of those.

Every red blooded male knows Shakespeare was right, when he said Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. It is VERY dangerous to knock back a woman when she has that LOOK in her eyes.

The only way to parry such a LOOK is to start talking about your wife and kids. That usually works, or about your Aids test results. That works too.

It is said that power is one of the greatest aphrodisiacs known to mankind,and until a little while ago, Della Bosca had that. He may have temporarily lost his Mojo, but as a well known journalist remarked, the words, There but for the grace of God go I, has been escaping the lips of both Liberal and Labor Politicians.

It goes with the territory. Sometimes I think we should just grow up.

“A wise wife never lets her man leave home with his seminal vesicles full. Any man worth his salt with a decent sex drive, needs to be unloaded at least every second day."

Bollocks Peter – though no doubt marriage was invented (by man of course) to accommodate the male’s sexual urge in the olden days to make him appear more respectable!

However, you rather conveniently use a biological foundation to excuse man’s infidelity and "lust" but dismiss a biological foundation for masturbation. Rest assured if masturbation lacked a biological foundation then masturbation would not be physically possible so enough of your cherry picking – chimps do it, canines do it, everybody’s doin’ it!

Of course, unlike Homo sapien, the canine usually practises sexual restraint until he’s invited to copulate by a bitch that’s on heat! Often on the other hand, if Homo sapien female is not keen to have sex due to menstruation, pregnancy, illness, conflict or temporary separation, the human male goes on the prowl.

Futhermore, biological foundations and your “lust” can no longer be used to excuse the state of the modern world due to the lack of restraint practised by the human species - 6.7 billion Homo sapiens and rising! I say: “Bring back masturbation, castration or expect a good floggin’!”

” Usually a strong sex drive goes with a higher intelligence and often with a greater drive in all things.”

Really – well Peter just consult the thousands of rape victims who’ve been assaulted by the males with a strong sex drive driven by that “higher intelligence!”

Nevertheless Della Bosca’s extramarital fling could have once been regarded as trivial. That’s before he denied offering Meagher the Cabramatta candidature, just hours before sitting member Newman was murdered; denied the allegations of Iguana-gate; denied plotting for the role of Premier and denied the recent allegations by Kate Neal - his version versus the rest of the world!

Therefore, from the opinion of a “leftie,” Della Bosca should have tied a knot in his “upstanding member” and practised the restraint constituents expect of one in public office.

*though no doubt marriage was invented (by man of course) to accommodate the male’s sexual urge in the olden days to make him appear more respectable!*

Not so dickie, because of course the female urge to raise offspring
is pretty strong. As our human females can't simply chew a bit of
grass for a living, they needed a male to help provide the resources.
So the clever little hussies came up with a plan :) They'd provide
the male with a bit of nookie and give him a reason to stick around,
if he helped provide the resources to feed the offspring. the rest is
history.

Pairbonding was the result.

* the canine usually practises sexual restraint until he’s invited to copulate by a bitch that’s on heat!*

Not so, for male canines commonly try to shag peoples legs :)

Now if you were a sheep dickie, as long as you stood still long
enough, some male would shag you, no flowers, no dinners, no
consent, no alimony either!

So you human females are not doing so badly in comparison.

Yabbies attitudes and belief system sum up evolutionary ideology very well. Unfortunately with thinking like this it is no wonder people justify rape and lack of self control. It is about as scientific as gw but what the hec!

Ah well the thread worked GY it would truly make a great subject on why we think the media is any different than us.
Just as many lies here, conclusions jumped to.
Blindness to the fact sex is not evil and just maybe we all or surely most of us do not want our past uncovered.
I have a problem, look at my frothing at the mouth condemnation of my party in NSW.
Can anyone think I would favor JDB?
I know the bloke,few who assault him here do.
I have insulted the bloke.
I knew that old rehashed rubbish about the murdered man, its years old dredged up as if it was yesterday, a story from a vindictive woman, unloved and vindictive.
I understand some females have had leave that alone, affairs.
your point remains do we truly understand this bloke, did Clinton continue to be a great leader after he got found out, did it impact on his leadership?
It continues to bring a grin to me poor Della if he had tipped the garbo just a few weeks ago would be well liked by now, riding a horse without legs, doomed to die but well liked.
He had a plan, be honest my Labor fellow travelers.
We are done for.
But we you and I rank and file, will be generations undoing the damage.
I take that challenge but never again after Latham will I hand out HTV for a dead party, a murdered party so badly served by its Representatives its self destruction should be achieved by calling an election now.
Let the other lot of useless beggars have it .

“Not so dickie, because of course the female urge to raise offspring
is pretty strong. As our human females can't simply chew a bit of
grass for a living, they needed a male to help provide the resources”

Err……Yabby – Seems you have not yet realised that it was the human male who asserted that only he could provide the resources for women’s survival. It’s currently called the “glass ceiling” to keep the little woman in her place (a mini-Taliban eh?) However, historically, if the little woman got out of line, the bully could beat, shame, rape, murder, burn or abandon her with impunity.

Nevertheless, you remain ill-informed on the overall history of woman's survival. Native women have possessed as much or more power within many tribal cultures as men. This role deteriorated as European values infiltrated but it's a role that has experienced a strong resurgence within European societies over the last 50 years.

Alas, the primordial male feels threatened by women who take on the roles of Prime Minister, CEOs of multi-national corporations or become builders, electricians, plumbers, carpenters, civil and mining engineers, geologists, truckies, train-drivers, scientists, astrophysicists, academics, doctors, brickies, politicians etc. and all "supposedly" on equal pay too.

And while a happy (and honest!) union between the human male and female is desirable, all of the above puts paid to your unmitigated swill on females' total dependency on the male Yabby. It was and is a con job!

In fairness, misogynists generally represent the desperate and the dateless, and we know you derive your information on human behaviour from the literature resting on your bookshelf.

Though strange how you permit your farm dogs (who by nature are pack animals) to shag people’s legs rather than putting them out of their misery by having them neutered. If one is so forlorn, I guess watching sheep copulate too is not so whacko though I’ve heard very strange tales about misogynistic farmers who hold such interest in the sex lives of sheep.

*Yabby – Seems you have not yet realised that it was the human male who asserted that only he could provide the resources for women’s survival*

Oh rubbish. As hunter gatherers, it seems that females were commonly
swopping sex for meat. At least thats how it worked in some of
the South African bushmen studies that I've read. Helen Fisher
reckons that it was the advent of the plough, which was too heavy
for women to operate, that made the difference, with more formal
marriage etc following.

* Though strange how you permit your farm dogs (who by nature are pack animals) to shag people’s legs*

Ah Dickie, but my farm dogs are female, old age is getting to you,
for you dragged that one from the air.

*I guess watching sheep copulate too is not so whacko though*

It happens on farms dickie. Thats the start of those packets of
lambs chops on your supermarket shelf!

Er, Yabby... I know this is your amateur hobbyhorse but again you're wrong.

Numerous studies show that, although meat is a critical element of gatherer-hunter subsistence, in most such societies the major calorific contribution to the daily diet is derived from vegetable food gathered by women - who also do quite a bit of the hunting and fishing too.

Yes, meat is a high value food in such societies, and like any luxury is a desirable item for exchange. You'd be quite surprised how elaborate the rules are for the distribution of meat and other foods are in gatherer-hunter bands.

There's an absolutely huge literature about it, if you'd care to look beyond the animals in your paddock and the pop science on TV, the net and your bookshelves.

Apologies to all for being off-topic, but a retired anthropologist can only take so much bulldust...

You’re not making men look very evolved there Yabby. Between you and Peter we have males running about shagging anything and everything that moves with no hope of self restraint or self relief considered.

And us females just stalking about ready to reel you in at will. I actually have no complaint there…

But I reckon if Belinda was not a politician and was your typical red blooded Aussie sheila she’d have made herself a new pair of earrings out of her husbands goolies by now.

Belly what is HTV?

The key idea in Yabby's pet subject is that men have a biological predisposition to sleep around. I agree that, deep down, most of us fellas would like to have the sex life of a 70's rock star. However, we aren't totally controlled by our basic biology. Most of us have accepted that it isn't moral to act like Yabby.

The major implication of all of this is that women need to remember that men have made a huge concession by agreeing to long-term relationships. It goes against what we were programmed to do. Therefore, it isn't unreasonable to expect them to make sacrifices and actually fight for a world where most blokes have evolved a bit more than Yabby's dogs (or their owner).

PP FYI: HTV i.e. "How To Vote."

“Oh rubbish. As hunter gatherers, it seems that females were commonly
swopping (sic) sex for meat.”

Oh Africa – right! Well what can one say to that Yabby? That the females might starve because the males intended keeping all the meat for themselves? It’s not much different to the “comfort” women of WWII is it? Sex, torture or death – take your pick!

“Helen Fisher reckons that it was the advent of the plough, which was too heavy for women to operate, that made the difference, with more formal marriage etc following.”

Well whoever Fisher is, you may like to inform her that women are capable of operating heavy ploughs even if it takes three women to operate a primitive one. And preventing women from operating primitive ploughs had much to do with customs and taboos.

Simple ploughs were developed before the early Egyptians over 4,000 years ago. These ploughs were eventually pulled by oxen, camels and even elephants and it is often said that women were also used.

And if you think that women are incapable of using ploughs, think first and second world wars where feeding the nations were the responsibility of the women’s land armies.

The girls of the land army looked after animals, ploughed the fields often with old fashioned equipment, dug up potatoes, harvested other crops often by hand, killed the rats, dug and hoed for 48 hours a week in the winter and 50 hours a week in the summer.

In Essex alone in the UK, land army girls ploughed up 40,000 acres.

Others were set to work chopping trees down and working in sawmills.

“Ah Dickie, but my farm dogs are female, old age is getting to you,
for you dragged that one from the air.”

Oh that’s right Yabby because recently you advised that your bitch had "snuck off" and mated elsewhere – potentially with feral dogs and dingoes in rural Australia! But of course you have always persisted with the notion that females are entirely responsible for birth control. Any more cop-outs Yabby?

*There's an absolutely huge literature about it*

Yup CJ, I read lots of it, but perhaps just written by somebody
more qualified then yourself :) As a late student, mid 80s,
already your career is over for a few years now, hardly a long one.

* Well whoever Fisher is,*

She is well known around the world of anthropology, unlike CJ.
She's a female, you could read her book and learn lol.

*women are capable of operating heavy ploughs even if it takes three women to operate a primitive one.*

Well that was Fisher's point. Women on their own could not operate
them.

We are talking thousands of years ago here dickie, are you even
aware of that?

*But of course you have always persisted with the notion that females are entirely responsible for birth control.*

Well I did ask the vet about keeping her on the pill until she
was ready to have a litter to a chosen eligible male with known
talent for sheepwork, but the vet could not help. So be it,
its up to the drug manufacturers if they won't make doggie pills.

Protagoras,
You said "I guess watching sheep copulate too is not so wacko though I’ve heard very strange tales about misogynistic farmers who hold such interest in the sex lives of sheep".

I realize that you were being a little bit sarcastic in saying that, but the astute stock owner and animal breeder will take a keen interest in the sex lives, and mating habits, of the animals he owns. His livelihood depends on that knowledge. Some people would be amazed and indeed shocked at what we, and vets, sometimes do to ensure the female conceives and the outcome is a healthy offspring.

Belly, Yabby and Forrest,
Finally, I did get around to googling John Brogden and yes, part of his embarrassment was his disparaging remarks regarding the Premiers wife, but also, at a function, he did pinch one female journo and propositioned another. This was disclosed and how is irrelvelant, but I knew there was a female involved. I do not think either his comments or his actions fitting of a politician.

I think we let polys get away with far too many lies and it appears many think lieing to and cheating on spouses is acceptable. I think not and beleive there is only one standard of honesty.

Banjo still the fact is even those events, got unveiled by trogs in his own party, facts bloke.
At that time the right of his party was in full flight, they kicked the hell out of him.
Now it to me at least is just silly how this thread has developed.
I can not believe the anti male rubbish being shown here, female too for that matter.
And the anti politician stuff is madness.
I am the one here with an extremely poor formal education, but you would not guess it from some posts.
Males by our very nature seek sex, females do too.
We say we will always be faithful to one partner, but often are not.
That is wrong but not evil.
Some who kick Della have an active sex life, including betrayal of partner, yes it is far more common than we will admit.
Yabby, if he is wrong is saying what most men think, me too.
How can we not face facts? being single again, forever this time, I get propositioned, by females, married women who haunt men, it happens hence Payton place very near here.
but is it important in how we work, who we are, why is Della a victim.
My mate Julie can you look me in the eye and say you never knew a woman like that, never knew one who tried to lay her Friends husbands all of them?
See I am not chauvinist not supporting unfaithful behavior but telling it like it is.
people who love only one another stay loyal for life are better for it and happy people, but many have skeletons in the closet.
remember that experiment people thinking they shocked others when pressing a button.
This thread supports the view people hurt people without reason and evidence.

Good point Benk, Thank you for agreeing to a long term relationship and fighting against what you were programmed to do. It must feel like this:

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=7159507

Belly:”My mate Julie can you look me in the eye and say you never knew a woman like that, never knew one who tried to lay her Friends husbands all of them?”

Morning Belly baby, nah I never did – honest. I don’t have many grow up friends doing what I do in life. But of course they are out there along with the bad husbands.

Without facts or personal knowledge of who we are discussing I imagine we always have to concede that there is nothing to base any judgements on.

“And the anti politician stuff is madness.” Belly old chap – look unto thyself for I suspect you’ll find that a lot of these rumours and snide remarks about politicians from the right side of ALP politics are started by the left (and vice versa). Then there are the published media reports and biographies on the political vaudeville which prevails:

1. Highlights of the Latham Diaries include;

- Richard Butler; has not resigned as Governor of Tasmania but was sacked for getting pissed at the Royal wedding in Denmark.

- Kevin Rudd; treacherous, nasty piece of work, addicted to the media and leaking. A junior minister in government, at best.

- Kim Beazley; indecent, dirty dog, stands for nothing and does nothing.

- Bob McMullan; combover.

- Bob Carr; A grade asshole

Take Amanda Vanstone who has been described as "junker guts" in Latham's book, and as "having the hairiest box ever seen on a woman" by Wayne Swan. Hmmmmm!

2. Though Malcolm Fraser managed to make headlines in 1986 by wandering around a Memphis hotel lobby in a dazed state with his trousers missing. He’d met a lady at the bar the night before who had drugged and robbed him. It was not reported whether he actually got lucky before passing out.

3. Bob Hawke managed to combine the positions of Prime Minister of Australia and a place in the Guinness Book of Records for beer drinking. In 1955 he drank 2.5 pints of beer in 11 seconds at University College, Oxford. He is also remembered for crying in public, dumping his missus of 40 years and declaring that by 1990 no Australian child will live in poverty

4. Len Kiely became minister for the environment in the Northern Territory in November 2007, despite protests from the politically correct crowd. He had just spent a year on the back bench for telling a 62 year old female security guard that he had a very long tongue and could make her a very happy woman, while he was pissed on taxpayer funded alcohol. Sixty two? Is nothing sacred?

contd.....

5. At least Billy Snedden (aged 60) died on the “job” in a joint at the Cross but sometime during the 70s, he’d over-indulged slightly in the XXXX, and proceeded thus: "Well, first of all I'd like to thank the good ladies of the branch here for providing such a scrumptious repast, and old Jack here for fixing up the hall, and Fred for getting us the sound system and his lovely wife for the flowers, and well, I'm sure there are other people I've forgotten, but who gives a f&&k." Not all the plum jam north of the Tweed could compensate.

6. In 2004 Paul Keating thought that dinner at a friend's house was a suitable time and place to announce to his wife that she’d passed her use-by-date!

7. And here's the pièce de résistance. Queensland Liberal Peter Slipper slipped out of the parliamentary chamber for a quick visit to the toilet on December 12, 2002 . However, after finishing in there he was unable to open the door to return to the chamber. He unsuccessfully pushed and pulled the door but it would not move!

Fortunately he had his mobile phone on him and he rang fellow Liberal MP Peter Lindsay to organize a rescue party to save him from his entrapment. Four security guards left Australia's government in the parliamentary chamber unprotected and vulnerable to terrorist attack and raced to the toilets to rescue the imprisoned politician.

They did not take long to resolve the situation and calmly slid open the toilet door. He was in the toilet for the disabled which has a sliding door! Speaker Neil Andrew said MPs should sharpen their toilet know-how in time for the Christmas party period.

In 2008 Slipper’s name appeared again in the media when he was alleged to have made a mobile phone call from an Aussie navy ship in the Red Sea that gave away their position and the next mission had to be abandoned. Costly but hilarious!

Married women hitting on you Belly? My you must be a horny looking critter!

Quoting Latham is a bit low, he was a phantom, his persona was a front.
Briefly I followed him on his bus trips, before that I read and re read his web Page.
Looked deeply into his first speech in Parliament.
Yes I had hopes, was a follower of the idea that once was Latham.
Either he conned me and the world, or lost contact with reality the day he took over the party, with the help of Simon Crean, thanks for nothing bloke.
I have knowledge of the people I write about in this thread.
If others did a different slant would be given.
Let s think about our extended famillys, we can find much not to talk about, bad drunks bad behavior.
Not in any way different than Della Bosca.
But we stand on our hill pelting stones in self righteous anger.
I found Sneddons death too did not need to be front page news, just maybe written by journalists who got very drunk most days and visited Lady's of the night on the way home too.

“Quoting Latham is a bit low………but we stand on our hill pelting stones in self righteous anger.”

Belly – That sounds like double standards to me since you pelt stones too and recently you declared: “Bloke this forum is , well I think it is, a place of free speech, a place we can, with respect state our opinions. Now most of us, you and I for sure, do not hide what we think.”

Is free speech only permitted a la Belly style? Latham published a book yet you say quoting the contents of his book is “a bit low?” Come come Belly my boy. It's not about you and my blood line of pollies learnt long before entering parliament that whatever they say, whatever they do will remain on the public record and up for debate.

For what it’s worth Belly, I don't vote Liberal but I certainly will not condone Labor’s ongoing Calabrian style thuggery, corruption and greed while one-eyed Labor Party leaders and their apparatchiks remain in denial.

I am prepared to admit that statement was wrong, what I found low about it others may well not.
In fact I hate to see the idiot quoted as a Labor source, he is not and never should have been.
I blame and dislike forever Simon Crean and that foolish Hunter valley ex minister for him.
And I could quote many conservative Polly's for their sins.
I have gone on recored with my disgust in NSW Labor.
And if I am right your party would be the greens, gee opportunity's exist to get stuck into them.
However they are about to get their biggest ever result in the next NSW election, nothing can undo that.
The thread is about fairness and Della.
Not a kick Labor in the guts thing.
Why oh why would anyone want to kick them?
They have done a good job of doing just that to every party member in this state.
Todays news that heckle and jeckle our esteemed leader and his of sider have used what little power they have to demote men better than them selves sickens me my party was once better than that.
I remain convinced John Della Bosca is worth ten of our weak gutless unfocused Cabernet.