I'm eternally fascinated by numbers, so forgiveness in advance please, rehctub.

>>the cost of getting a beast from the sale to the abb has gone from $4.00 to $15 in ten years<<

How much would that be per kilo?

Apart from that, there is some other fairly simple maths going on here.

When budgets are tight, the mass of the population will home in on the cheapest products. If those products come from overseas, they don't really notice, they look at them, try them, and if they like them they will buy them next time as well.

If local producers cannot provide the same product at the same quality, they (the producers) will need to look around for crops that will compete. If they cannot do that, they might have a problem, as jingoism commands a fairly limited market premium.

Should our overseas suppliers then increase their prices, they would of course have an opportunity to jump back in.

But I cannot see the justification for increasing the cost of living for all Australians, simply to maintain an inefficient market. It's not that long ago when the Queensland banana crop was wiped out, and I still remember being invited to pay upwards of $10 a kilo, because we weren't permitted overseas product. Sheer, naked, greedy profiteering.

And we don't necessarily need a car manufacturing capability, either, unless they are able to compete on - yes, you guessed it - quality and price. Anyone heard of the Trabant?

Let's keep a level head and resist protectionism. It never works.

Yabby,
your argument in reality has fatal flaws.
My brother in arms has just lost his job at Fisher and Paycal they are moving to Mexico. F&P have arrangements with the local govt to pay peon wages and gain substantial tax breaks and therefore the company can make large profits.

This is scenario is common look at the textile,clothing then go to that country and observe the working conditions/wages. Moving to a country because of enforceable cheaper wages, conditions (safety and environmental) and tax breaks is by any definition exploitation.
Whether you put a pejorative spin on the word is *issue* dependent.
BTW many of the imported cars are full of bits made in exploitative ones.

Also note that not all companies in Japan etc pay reasonable wages. Some people with jobs are compelled to rent hot bed (taxi beds) or effectively cell space to live.

While your white goods maybe Aus made research where the bits come from. Also look at your other consumer toys plasma screen TV, sound systems,computers, appliances, clothes and furniture et al. True we in Aust against these extortionate wage levels so therefore we cut quality.

Need I remind you that some 'cheap pen raised fish' sold in Supermarkets are from polluted water. Chicken meat, pork and some canned food comes from environments whose health standards are far less than ours. Contaminated milk/toothpaste at al. But hey they're all cheap. And who care when we ship all our toxic out of fashion consumerist toys to poor nations when the people have hob's choice.

In reality we're competing with a wage and lifestyle on the backs of the 3rd world and do we care about their health/futures we don't want them here..
One could question our devotion to consumerism that spawns this global exploitation and makes us more vulnerable.
Then again we the public support indirectly many otherwise dubiously profitable industries.
Sorry mate your stated view is very myopic. Perhaps we should discuss what a level playing field is and how capitalism ensures it doesn't exist.

Yabby, You say

"Basically yup. Our labour is hugely expensive and lets face it,
Aussies don't want those crappy jobs like picking fruit anymore.
The industry now only survives with backpackers etc".

My take on the fruit picking is a bit different. I say the government,under Keating, took the incentive out of the work. You may not be old enough to remember, but people used to take their holidays from their normal work and go with the bride in a caravan to the fruit areas and pick. The extra money was used to pay off the land/house and get a start. Vic Rail even had special 'pickers trains' running to the fruit areas. When the Tax File Number was introduced, these hard working people quickly found their holiday work put them in a higher tax bracket and it was not worth the effort. Sydneysiders could go to the markets at 3.00am and do a few hours hard work before starting their regular job and suffered the same tax issue. Typical government taking the incentive away from the willing.

I said *I hate to think what would happen if our sealanes were cut off, say by regional conflict.* My point here is that we are so reliant upon overseas goods that we cannot do without them. We put a lot of effort, after WW11, into becoming self sufficient and the globalism ideology abolished all that. Have a bit more faith in your JD tractor, I have in my MF.


Most of the land now covered by urban sprawl on the coast was rich basalt land which was used as market gardens and dairys. Some inland was only wool growing country, but most towns started life on rivers where the better land was. Look at western Sydney, good land ruined while large areas of tea tree and stunted scrub remain as National Parks. For someone who would have given the family jewels for some of that good land the situation is heart breaking.

Our priorities have been and are definately wrong

Now there's talk of big miners like BHP raiding the fertile Liverpool Plains for open-cut coal. If Australia is to sustainably maintain its own food production, the Government needs to make a stand to protect these fertile areas.

In the last 4 Corners program, the company said it would only mine the ridges around the plains. However its opponents say that there's no way of knowing how the water table is going to be depleted or polluted by such mining operations. Not to mention the fact that when the miner gets its foot in the door, it tends to play the possession-is-nine-tenths-of-the-law game and pretty much does what it wants. Why mess around in a high-value farming area. Where's the Government? Having a siesta?

*The extra money was used to pay off the land/house and get a start*

Actually Banjo, I blame the parents. Alot of them were so keen to
make it easier for their kids, that many brought up a mob of
spoiled brats, who think that the world owes them a living. One
thing that I learned about going through really hard times, it makes
you appreciate the good times. Many people today have only ever known
good times, so are under some illusion that they are doing it "tough"

*We put a lot of effort, after WW11, into becoming self sufficient*

Banjo, the world was a much simpler place then. TV was a luxury,
a 3 by one fibro was the dream, plus a Holden. When I came here
in the 70s, they still had party telephone lines. 2 rings was
Joe, 3 rings was Fred, the girl at the exchange knew everything :)
Today we have complexity, which includes manufacturing processes.

*rich basalt land which was used as market gardens and dairies*

Well we are not short of veggie growing land, but getting short of
farmers prepared to take the risk of growing a crop, only to be
wiped out by a market downturn that week. Its also pointless
producing more milk, for those Japanese/NZ owned dairy companies
have just dropped the price to 25c or so per litre. Last year
they were still screaming for the stuff.

This is really where I see a huge problem. Buyers are so good at
screwing down prices when the slightest surplus appears, that
producers eventually lose interest. Next thing you have a massive
shortage. Take oil. It dropped down to 30$, so the first thing
that happened was that drilling rigs stopped drilling etc. Yet
in a couple of years, everyone will be in a panic, when oil is
short again. The same principle applies to other commodities,
including food.