An 11-year study by a collaboration of Australian universities has found 85 per cent of Australians acknowledge racial prejudice occurs in the nation and one in five has been a victim of racist verbal abuse.
For the last decade, the government hasn't appointed a full-time Race Discrimination Commissioner
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25683572-5005961,00.html

FORTY per cent of Australians believe some ethnic groups do not belong in the country with one in 10 having outwardly racist views, a new study shows.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24415273-12377,00.html

Challenging Racism: The Anti-Racism Research Project. A Project of the University of Western Sydney and Macquarie University - Findings by Region
http://www.uws.edu.au/social_sciences/soss/research/challenging_racism/findings_by_region

4 in 10 Australians are ‘racist’; 1 in 10 ‘racial supremacists’.
http://www.fightdemback.org/2008/09/29/racism-in-australia-study/

Study reveals Australian racist views
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=638470

Addressing Racism in Australia
Dr Yin Paradies
The costs of racism
An estimated 70% of workers exposed to racism and other forms of discrimination take time off work as a result. Racism can also affect staff turnover, recruiting and inducting replacement staff as well as overall workplace morale and productivity
Health and social costs associated with the long- and short-term consequences of racism
Costs of racism-related unemployment, early school leaving, poor educational outcomes and involvement in the criminal justice system

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:mhipynkwC2EJ:www.deakin.edu.au/dhs/documents/Peter%2520Quail%2520Oration%2520(March%25202009).ppt+Challenging+Racism+Project&cd=22&hl=el&ct=clnk&gl=au

Australian racism 'still serious'
Researchers in Australia have concluded that people are becoming more tolerant of cultural diversity.
But racism remains a problem, with one in 10 Australians believing some races are superior to others.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7641158.stm

Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

“NSW topped the list with 46 per cent of survey respondents saying some ethnic groups should not be in the country.”

I knew it.

“The most often-mentioned groups were Muslims or people from the Middle East."

At least that answers my question about the Lebanese.

I think that says it all really Antonios. You will get the ones coming in whose friends and family do not think like this and so do not believe it is a reality or many making the comparison with another country.

I think the problem is the emotions that brew in the different groups that are picked on or looked upon as inferior; they feel it and respond with anger. I actually have no idea what to do about it or how to make anyone do anything.

Start in the schools teaching the children about other cultures and make it fun. Aussie seems to do this thing where their news is like half an hour and only about their own state and some sport before launching in to the weather. The world does not seem to exist.

Make Australians happier about their country and this should begin with its aboriginals. There is no pride in land without the people that came with it.

Queensland just won their match, that’s cause there’s more Kiwi’s living there aye.

UN 'concerned' over suspension of Racial Discrimination Act
UN Committee for the Elimination of Racial Discrimination chairman Fatimata-Binta Victoire Dah has written a two-page letter to the Government requesting a progress report on Kevin Rudd's promise to reinstate the Racial Discrimination Act, which was suspended by the Howard government.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25209009-5006790,00.html

Rights record under scrutiny in UN seat bid Daniel Ziffer
March 22, 2009
PRIME MINISTER Kevin Rudd's dream of winning a UN Security Council seat might be dashed by international concerns about Australia's record on human rights
http://www.smh.com.au/world/rights-record-under-scrutiny-in-un-seat-bid-20090321-94z4.html

Amnesty reports to UN on Australia’s human rights failures
“Many of the gaps in Australia’s protection of human rights, identified by the UN Human Rights Committee in its last periodic review, still have not been addressed,” Dr Seth-Purdie said. “If the Rudd government is serious about meeting its international obligations it should take immediate action to withdraw law and policy that subject Indigenous Australians to racial discrimination.”
http://www.amnesty.org.au/images/uploads/news/HR_Committee_briefing.pdf

UN gives Australia one-year deadline on human rights
The United Nations Human Rights Committee (UNHRC) has given the Australian Government a year to live up to its international human rights obligations with respect to the Northern Territory Intervention, mandatory immigration detention, anti-terrorism laws, and violence against women.
http://www.lawyersweekly.com.au/blogs/top_stories/archive/2009/04/06/un-gives-australia-one-year-deadline-on-human-rights.aspx

more useless tax payer funded propaganda with no real solutions. If you don't know why most Australians including new Australians have a problem with Lebanese Muslims you have to be pretty ignorant. We don't need the 'rights under the UN rubbish'. We need immigrants to integrate and contribute to the land that our soldiers died for. Thankfully most do that but many from Lebanon only contribute in that we need more tax funded Policeman and Prisons.

We have been here before you and I AS.
I think you in all probability are a good bloke.
But is in your view this research finding anything we did not know already.
Have the findings been any different than they would be in any country in the world?
Including the one of your birth?
Or any group race or creed?
Has it ever crossed your mind that most people dislike racism?
Or that too often, far too often miss understanding sees racism blamed?
Minoritys can be racist.
Some of your statements over you post history seem to state Aussies are just maybe more racist than others.
Bloke you and I need to understand,sometimes we are wrong.
Some ideas we have do not come with written garantees others will agree with us.
To chalenge us you and me, is not racism, my people have their faults so do yours.
Years ago, on a building site, I was told by some of your country men they did not want me learning a bit of their language , some of what they said to one another they said was private.
Some of it was, and rather cowardly too.

Hey Runner, I kinda thought maybe Antonios was seeing what solutions might be around. But then the awareness alone may be useful. On OLO I notice the odd jab at Muslims, not sure why or I’m not sure why their crimes due to their religion are seen as worse than all the other crimes because of all the other religions.

Many different countries contributed to wars in the world to keep this countries freedom.

Belly I remember looking it up once and apparently minorities can’t technically be called racist. And I do get what you mean, seen it lots myself. But maybe those Greeks weren’t happy, maybe they felt isolated and discriminated against. It is more than hurtful as a guest to have many of your hosts children be mean to you or look at you like they want you gone.

Aussie media seem rife with this race being picked on by this other race; even I have stopped being shocked by it. In that thread about the Indian students it appeared to be pretty messy. Maybe the immigrants get here and decide that to assimilate they need to choose which other race to not like immediately.[smile]

But to answer your question I think Antonios is pointing out that here we apparently do not have enough people that dislike racism.

The study shows that 9 in 10 Australians are NOT racial supremacists: 6 out of 10 are NOT racist. How about some 'studies' from other countries for a change! Most Australians are NOT racists. How do other countries rate!

The difference in Australia, as opposed to countries where they kill people for merely being different - is that we have a non- discrimanatory immigration policy and a tolerance built on Western values and ideals.

Unfortunatley, too many immigrants feel that things are not always to their liking, and they start to pick and carp about 'racism' because they know that Australians, like all Westerners, are sensitive to be called racist. The same thing occurs in the UK, where British heritage, history and values have been eroded by authorities frighened of upsetting immigrants.

Hopefully, Australians will not succumb to this stupid name calling and the blackmail of certain people who are always stirring the possum on OLO, and people who abuse our tolerance and easy-going manner.

There is too much acceptances of some immigrants' demands that Australia does things they way they (immigrants) want.

And we should remember, these 'studies' are not always carried out by people who include the correct raw data or those who have positive attitudes to Australia and Australians.

Every time we have the word 'racists' aimed at us, we must think of it as a 'thought-terminating cliche'; a bullying tactic to put us on the back foot. It has working in Britain, where freedom of speech is just about defunct; let's see that it doesn't happen here.

Every "race" and culture, society and clan is "racist", look at how the Romanies are treated across Europe, every spot on this planet has it's prejudice. The Lebanese treat each other in horrific ways, and come here and do the same, hence the reputation. Look at the caste system in India, yet here they cry discrimination. No-one's at fault, it's built into our genes, yet can be easily overcome by education and experience, just look at how many Aussies are resentful of Asian immigration, yet are perfectly capable of liking the Asian woman at work, or that nice Mr Tan down at the grocers.
Until such education and/or experience become universal, we will have to find ways to deal with the consequences of the clash between our inherited xenophobia and our Global Village.
There are many nations on Earth far more racist than Australia, look you to Japan, China, most of Africa and Sth America.
The worst racists I've encountered in Australia are the Indigenous themselves. Hands down!

yet another anti-Australian thread from Symeonakis. It makes me wonder why he ever came here. Worse still, if it troubles him so much, why does he stay here? How would he like it if I went to his homeland and constantly carped on about conditions there?

I'm sure that his thread will bring out all the usual WASP-haters.

All humans are basically tribal in their outlook and I think people mistake this for racism. You only have to look at the way competing football supporters, often with some violence, enforce their beliefs. We all want to spend time with the culture with which we feel comfortable and whose philosophy and attitudes we relate to.

It is not about skin colour or the way others "look different", it"s much more about the way we were brought up and what we believe in.
If that is being racist then I plead guilty.

Having said that, there is no way I would vilify people who come from another country and speak another language, I would go out of my way to support them, but by the same token it does irritate me the way some will not conform and will display significant signs, particularly in the way they dress, that they do not agree with certain philosophies, culture and even the laws that we have grown up with and accept. Why do many religions have to exhibit their beliefs by wearing clothing such as the hijab, skull cap, turban, and don't cut their hair and even wear crosses round their necks. To me it portrays a provocative message to say "I am not of your clan and do not have your beliefs"

While I accept that a lot of people have faith in different gods I would prefer them to keep it to themselves. It might create a bit more fellowship. As a predominantly white race in Australia we are more likely to be accused of racism, but I would submit, as others have here, that we don't go near many other countries of the world, but it is us that get pilloried...... continued

Contnued.....

I think Nicholas Sarkozy was quite right in banning the Burqa because it creates significant separation in a country that wants integration. If I go to another country I expect to conform to their culture and laws. Saudi Arabia is quite within its right to ban the bikini if it offends their culture, for instance and there are many other countries that require me to cover bare limbs in the same way.

We have gained enormous benefit from other cultures, but racism is bandied about as an excuse for philosophical differences that are cultural. We do not want differences that portray a significant betrayal of that culture and law

Well that was predictable it’s happened in every thread and in most schoolyards I guess.

“What about other countries they suck too.”[the finger pointer]

“If you don’t like it go home.”[the sulker]

“But it was only one out of ten so the other nine make up for it!”[the excuser]

And the all time winner:

“We tried to kill them then we took their kids and look! They don’t like us!”[the bully]

Sad guys. Australia is beautiful and something to be so proud of. The indigenous people should be honored. You’ve had a long time to make them feel special and I’d suggest getting on with it. Wasn’t everyone upset about Mr Ward?

Oz’s natives, all generations, should do better and try harder. I don’t know how one does this without acknowledging enough has not been done. If this mindset about immigrants wasn’t deep in the culture you’d have more than a AussieKiwi and a AussieGreek saying these things are not okay. Actually Antonios hasn’t said much.

What is a WASP?

I’m guessing it is something about white Australians? Often hurt isn’t mutual baby, doesn’t always go both ways.

The Pied Piper You write

'The indigenous people should be honored.' On what basis should they be honoured? The fact that they were here first? That means the Greeks should honour me because I was here before them. The Lebanese should honour the Greeks etc etc.

All people should be treated as human beings. You should not be honoured because of your skin colour. You should be honoured if you are honourable. I would have no trouble honouring Noel Pearson because he deserves it. If you are a drunk and into crime whether you are yellow, brown or black you deserve to be treated as a human being but not honoured. Saying that a person should be honoured because of their skin colour is erroneous as saying a Priest should be honoured because of his robes. People who beat their wives and live in drunkedness don't need to be honoured.

PP writes..” The indigenous people should be honored”
OK mate, exactly WHAT did you have in mind? How do we “honour” them?
There’s an indigenous bloke sitting outside my flat right now, banging some sticks together, “humbugging” for his next drink He’s an alky, I know him well. He did time for assaulting his wife and kids, several times. So, in practical terms now, HOW do I do it?
Should I go out and fall to my knees before him? What do I say? Should I bring him inside, suggest he removed his stained trousers, have a shower, seek treatment for his scabies? Surely that’s infringing his rights? Being condescending? Trying to impose my values on him?
How does one “honour” them?
Or are you only concerned with the rhetoric, not the actuality?
I just LOVE all these people with their fine words and Ideals, yet no interest in what’s actually going on “out there”, no interest in trying to deal with real, blood-flowing, piss-stained, tear-filled reality. It’s not pretty, people, not pretty at all, and it can hurt you.
I am disgusted with the fact that in the 21st century a nation such as ours allows these conditions to exist among the indigenous, while prosecuting anyone else who lives as they do, purely in fear of being called racist by people with “Ideals”. It actually is racism of the worst kind, as bad as Apartheid in SA, permitting the abuse and destruction of a people purely because of their skin!
Oh, and as I read it, most people were upset about Mr Ward because he was a human being! Race had little to do with the disgust and anger, other than as a cause of his treatment. It actually made me a little prouder to be an Aussie, to see here and hear elsewhere the rejection of this event

The Pied Piper
I returned few minutes before from my work. Thank you for your suport. One time I went to Sydney and I asked an old woman for a street. She said me "no english!" I said her "me Greek, no english too!"
and she said me "You Grecko, you brother!" She was an Italian migrant.
Later I asked a young man for the train station and he said me "I am going there" and asked me to go into his van. On the road he tried to put a CD with music but he made a mistake and he put the wrong CD. On the CD was a muslim prayer! He was a lebanese muslim. After 10-15 minutes I asked him where is the train station and he said me"you are a good man. we are going to airport" (I said him that I was going to airport for Adelaide)and he took me direct to airport, to ther side of the Sydney, for free!. The Italian old woman and the young Lebanese man the ONLY thing they wanted was understanding, acceptance and respect. I gave it with few words, with my body language and from one minute to the other they become friends as if we knew each other for years!

Belly, "But is in your view this research finding anything we did not know already" YES! I hoped, I thought I was wrong! Now I know that we realy have a problem, that we must try to find the best solusion for this problem. The race discrimination costs, hurts, destroys lifes, families, children! The cost from the race discrimination will transfered to the next generations.
Let's promote the understanding and cooperation between australians, the mutual benefits, the common future
Belly
This problem is not only mine, but yours too, this is a problem for all australians! We must try all together to solve this problem.
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

My spell checker is American I think. Hi Runner, I get your point and no you shouldn’t honor someone who is a drunk and beats his wife. But don’t expect him to honor you for handing him the bottle and kidnapping his kids beforehand.

You could always of got them off the alcohol and made them a prouder people though, worthy of honor. Maybe the fact that they were here first and never bothered anyone else is a something to be appreciated. Maybe that they were here for so long is something special and unique. The fact you didn’t sign a treaty is something you should be eternally grateful for.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25687111-421,00.html

Who is Noel Pearson?

People do honor priests because of their robes though; they are accorded a certain respect here yeah?

Am I using the wrong word? You know what, I think having hoards of kids over time has made me see most things at a different level, might be childish or ideal but talking about racism is like repeating lines I have said countless times.

He had it first so leave him alone.

She didn’t know it was yours and is sorry she broke it.

Look this bit isn’t broken you can still play with it.

I don’t care if you really want it this is not good for you.

If you share this you will have more fun.

Doesn’t matter what the neighbors kids are doing they just haven’t learnt to play nicely yet.

Oh you keep doing that and I am going to cook you in the oven and have you with apple sauce.

Err – forget that last one.

Hey Antonios, Hey Belly… Bless you both.

Leigh
I did not read any study about race discrimination in other countries, no, I read for USA they have less race discrimination, But I know from newspapers, plus from my experiences, I traveled in 50 countries and I lived for long time in four countries, I know in most countries of the world the race discrimination is worst!
Leigh
Australia made HUGE steps to the right direction the last 60-70 years. You know from 1901 to 1954 no one non anglo saxon became australian citizen! Then we had realy hard race discrimination in Australia BUT because we made so many steps forward it does not mean that we solve the problem. WE HAVE TO DO MORE STEPS FORWARD, WE HAVE TO SOLVE MORE PROBLEMS RELATED TO RACE RELATIONS AND RACE DISCRIMINATION.
Leigh the future of this country depends from the relations between the various minorities in australia. Soon or later no one nationality will have majority, all nationalities will be minorities. You know it. In realy after 100-150 years the European background australians (british, greeks, italian etc) will be minority in australia. Read the birth rates. WE, THE EUROPEAN AUSTRALIANS MUST IMPROVE OUR RELATIONS WITH THE NON EUROPEAN AUSTRALIANS, WE THE CHRISTIANS MUST CREATE MANY BRIDGES WITH THEN NON CHRISTIAN AUSTRALIANS NOW! Do you understand what I say to you Leigh? Now we are strong enouph and we can give the right solusion to the problem. If we do not do anything to solve the problem , if we victimize innocent people, the problem will biuld up and in the future with different synthesis of population, with many wounds from the past the solusion of the problem would be more difficult and worst for our grand children. I do not understand you! Do you hate your children and grant children? Why do you try to transfer the problem to them? Are a scary man? Give me your hand and let's try the maximum we can do for our children and grand children, for the future of this country.
DO NOT WORRY, I AM A FRIEND!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Noel Pearson, in my view, is the best voice of Aboridginal people alive today, he is also one of them.
WASP White Anglo Saxon proderstent not racist just a very well known way of discribing me.
Maximillion, I agree with much of your posts here, including your view some of this countrys worst racists are, our first Australians.
But its education or lack of it not spite that drives those few.
My nephews kids are good ones and from that group, one of my sisters has such kids, all good well educated and comited to improving their peoples lives.
AS give it a rest, you offend too many, in 1970 driving a truck this country bumkin tried to be friendly to 20 young men from your country about 20 years old in a factory my load was going to .
We laughted and joked in sign more than speech, but they chanted the few words in English they knew, only too well.
Aussie Girls are sl#$>s.
I knew, they did not understand how offensive that was, and that they had different life learning than me.
Still now I do not think of them as racist but uninformed and unwise? yes?
You my friend can be unwise, and are often here in print.
But your heart is good, you care for others, maybe too much sometimes.

Bruce Haigh did an interesting article on
the 3 June 2009 for the ABC called,
"Racism in Australia."

http://www.abc.net.au/unleased/stories/s2588104.htm

Haigh tells us that:

"Since the time of white settlement racism has been
part of the weft and weave of this country...

...The treatment of Aborigines is the most glaring example
and is there for the world to see...

Aborigines are not equal before the law in Australia;
they die in the back of prison vans. Whitefellas speak,
plan and make decisions on their behalf. Rehabilitation
programs in prison are minimal and many prison guards
display racial prejudice including visiting relatives.
White decision makers are currently in the process of
denying outstations to Aborigines..."

We've all seen graffitti and ugly text messages relating
to Aborigines, Muslims, Jews, Indians and refugees.

Haigh tells us that:

"Australians from dominant Anglo/Celtic culture expect
new Australians from other cultural backgrounds to
show some respect...until such time as they know the
ropes, cut their cultural ties and enter the mainstream..."

Haigh makes it quite clear that, "Polite and sometimes
not so polite racism is the underbelly of conservative
politics and conservative attitudes..."

Haigh points out: "John Howard brough his class and
race warfare to government. He was a champion of the
marginalised white middle class... Howard's treatment
of refugees arriving by boat was state sponsored and
sanctioned racism. It sent a powerful message, not to
refugees but other Australians to develop and
encourage their own racism..."

Mohammed Haneef was a victim. The Australian Federal
Police did not apologise ...

Racism comes from fear.
Not a physical fear, but some kind of fear that is
unrealistic, and based on ignorance. We've got to start
educating the children. We need to change their attitudes.
We need to acknowledge what's really going on in schools
and start getting accurate information into the schools.

The Government as Haigh says, needs to implement in schools
and universities - programs promoting human rights and
combating racism. We can do little about the racist nasties,
other than the threat of civil action - but we can make
a difference by educating our children.

cont'd

Oooooops - I did a typo with the Haigh website
it should have read:

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2588104.htm

Dear Piper,

WASP - means 'White Anglo-Saxon Protestant.'

PP, you didn’t answer my questions.
Your answer to runner was nuts, the drunken wife-beater IS doing those things, himself. No-one else handed him the bottle, no-one has or will kidnap his wife. Blaming the early settlers for his current problems is a tenuous link, and one he can break at any time.
Get them off the alcohol? What, impose our laws or ways on him? Isn’t that what all the disputation is about? You want to FORCE them to behave how you think they should?
Never bothered anyone else? Wrong. Study the history, they may have been ineffectual, unco-ordinated, yet they killed many, and disrupted much, as was their right to do, resisting the invasion of their land. They lost, it happens, get over it.
As for previous tenancy earning them anything, no, sorry, we all are the descendants of survivors, the difference being ours contributed to the growth in the quality of life, health, and happiness, (and the destruction) of the entire planet. Theirs merely managed a hand-to-mouth hunter-gatherer culture, and little else. They are a people swallowed up by the flood of history, as has happened countless times before, and will doubtless happen again, quite probably even to our descendants. That’s life.
Foxxy, that’s only one man’s opinion, and there are many more. Doesn’t mean he’s right, or wrong, it’s only one view, and ignores much, and assumes much, just as most people do

Austin Powerless
You do not understand me! You are not POWERLESS but you worry from muslims or asians or other migrants, you see them as competitors, as opponents, as a threat. You are not the only person who worry from migrants, especialy from muslims, from people from Meddle East or Asians.
BUT Muslims, people from Meddle East or Asians worry from your worries, they heard and have seen many bad guys, they are victims from discrimination, race or religious.
Both sides have exaggerated the threat and the risks from the other side.
The question is how we can bring closer the nationalists (you) with new migrants, especialy with muslims? You worry from the 3% of our population! For me you do not seem for a scary man!
I am between BOTH SIDES! I am European as you, same skin colour, with same western values as democracy,etc,BUT I do not believe any more to any God. Some idiots use their power to victimize me in my workplace. You know that I am one from you But with some different ideas!
The Muslims know that I am a migrant I am a victim from discrimination, I am an atheist and I do not care or worry for any god or religious and MAINLY that I have OPEN my hands to BOTH sides.
WHERE DO YOU SEE THE PROBLEM WITH ME?
I try to bring both sides closer, I try to convince both sides that there is no real, logical threat from the other side, that we, the mass majority of australians will protect both sides, that we understand the worries from both sides, we respect their values and we protect their essencial rights.
Austin Powerless WHAT REALY I SAY TO YOU AND TO EVERY ONE ELSE IS VERY SIMPLE. WOKE UP! IT IS GOOD FOR ALL SIDES, IT IS GOOD FOR AUSTRALIA, IT IS GOOD FOR THE NEXT GENERATIONS OF AUSTRALIANS IF WE LEARN TO UNDERSTAND EACH OTHER, IF WE LEARN TO RESPECT EACH OTHER, IF WE LEARN TO COOPERATE.
This country is yours and ours!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Pied piper,
You really are ignorant! If you don't know who Noel Pearson is or what a WASP is, you have been here less than a month. I am not religous so WASP to me means White Anglo Saxon Person. I suggest you find out a bit about us, our society, culture and history before you try to tell us about how racist we are.

You think Lebs have a bad reputation because of their religion? Wrong. The Lebs reputation is due entirely to their anti-social behaviour, the fact that they gang bash young blokes, show contempt for our laws and judicary and treat women abismally with sexual slures and so on. We do not, in Aus, call a female a slut or a whore just because she wears a short skirt or low cut top. If you think I am racist then I tell you I have no problem with non-muslim Lebanese or and little with muslims of other nationalities.

Do you think aboriginals should not be allowed alcahol, but others can? Thats a racist attitude and your ignorance is further shown by your kidnapping remark. I do not honour or respect any person because of their colour or dress, my respect comes from their acts and deeds.

It might pay you to look and learn before you show how foolish you are.

Antonios. Information that may interest you. For the year ending 30-6-08 we granted 318000 student visas and 22858 permanant resident visas were granted to those with student visas. Also there were 110570 temporary work 457 visas granted and 24950 permanent resident visas were granted to 457 visa holders. I am trying to find out what courses the students granted PR took. Australian workers have to be affected by these figures in many ways.

"1 in 10 ‘racial supremacists’ in Australia"

No one asked me.

...anyone else here get asked?.

Hey Max, Tricky but all yours, how will you honour him? Start by asking hon, no one asked you mend him or bow to him.

Rhetoric? Max it’s me Jewely. Last wee aboriginal kids I had were trying to go through my rubbish bin for food when they turned up. Dad beat the crap out mum but the blood everywhere didn’t bother them, that was common place, the four year old was really upset telling me because in the process he spilt some yoghurt. She cried for the yoghurt.

I’m so there with blood, piss, and tears. In fact you can add pooh and mucus. The situations that surround them hurt but hey I am a NSW X Kiwi female now, I can take it.

Yes weirdly enough the indigenous are not required to assimilate. Values and who owns them and whom should follow who’s again?

“How does one “honour” them?”

Let me know.

I couldn’t reply to you before because I had to wait an hour then when I tried after an hour it said two hours. My message may be nuts Max but Runner is pretty clever and will make whatever sense out of it.

You heard of cycles, cycles that go through generations often getting worse and worse unchecked? That bottle was put in his hand before his grandfather was born. Nothing wrong with them being hunter gatherers but don’t let them be swallowed.

Belly that was a man thing with the Aussie girl stuff but that is stuff to let go. It’s good you had the experience because you should be able to understand how immigrants feel in return.

Is this the answer do you think Foxy, this is easy though aye?

“His government needs to implement a schools and university program promoting human rights and combating racism.”

Oh, so is being a WASP bad? I really thought it would have something about being a white Aussie. At least I am learning!

Same old, same old... Thanks to Antonios for reminding us of our uncomfortable underbelly, and also to the usual suspects for demonstrating it in no uncertain terms.

As I've said before, while Australia is a nation that was founded on racism and continues to foster racist sentiments among various minorities, it's probably no worse in that respect to any other contemporary developed country. However, that doesn't mean that we should be in denial about the fact that 1 in 10 Australians is apparently outwardly racist in their expression of their hateful bigotry.

One in ten is one too many, in my opinion. Earlier this week some racist prick came into my business and started spouting some racist bile about the "coons" in the next town. In front of a queue of other customers I told him in no uncertain terms to keep his racist crap to himself, or he wouldn't be served.

He looked a bit gobsmacked, but complied. We should all stand up to bigotry where we can.

Ahh there you are, Banjo baby I keep saying and saying I am trying to learn about Australia here on OLO and I am. It’s actually really hard learning about a whole nation, its politics and cultures.

Slang is an additional difficult thing to grasp and hard to understand at times, I also don’t notice a lot if slang has been used. Even here you have two different meanings for the acronym based on being a church follower or not. People who are well known is another hard one and I thought someone was going to say he played footy. I looked him up and read some articles.

I can go months without turning a TV or glancing at a newspaper or years not being online.

I didn’t say not to allow aboriginals alcohol. I didn’t say Lebs had a bad attitude because of religion either.

Banjo you know damn well your average Aussie lads do call your females sluts and whores if they wear short skirts, etc.

See I don’t know 41 years worth of Australia like if I was born here but I do know people. And the way you just talked to me as an immigrant was pretty amazing.

“You really are ignorant! If you don't know who Noel Pearson is or what a WASP is”
“It might pay you to look and learn before you show how foolish you are.”
“I suggest you find out a bit about us, our society, culture and history before you try to tell us about how racist we are.”

I didn’t tell you how racist you are the article did. I’d suggest you find out more about the immigrant you are abusing before you attack them. I arrived in Oz on the 6th of April 2006. I then proceeded to care for 28 Australian children to date and not one of them told me what a wasp was or who Noel Pearson was strangely enough.

Go one then STG – you racist?

Every country needs many more like you CJ, you are a treasure.

...just wondering how they can come to the conclusion Piper.

Same as all stats. Results will vary depending on who you ask and what demographic you ask.

Of course racists excist in Aus. But 10% sounds like they threw a dart at the board. Being Anglo in appearance you hear comments that can be labelled as racist all the time. I'm sure if you're Asian you'll hear racist comments against whoever, same with the Indigenous population you'll hear comments aimed at whoever, I'm sure the same goes for every other section of society.

The original poster chose the word 'Supremist'. I think if someone has made racist comments within their own group, or generalisations about other race's that can be labelled as racist, that doesn't necessarily mean they are fundamentally racist, or supremist.

All people from all race's make snarky comments and generalisations about eachother. I think the study is flawed unless everyone is asked.

Just my thoughts, anyway.

No, Symeonakis. I don't understand you at all; I don't think you understand yourself. You appear to have some serious problems. I think you should try to solve them rather than trying to blame Australia and Australians for them. On your own admission, you have done a lot of country swapping. I don't think that you will ever find a place to be happy in. I would have thought that your own socialist country would have been ideal for you, although most Australians of Greek background have fitted into Australia very well indeed.

A survey on how many Australians are self-flagellants would be interesting. It never ceases to amaze how many Australians jump at the chance to join other anti-Australians in ripping their country to shreds.

However, it seems that more and more people are getting sick and tired of the fifth columnists. It is hoped that this will continue before we turn into a rudderless and lost country as the UK has become, with its super-multicultruralism, political correctness and guilt about its own values and heritage.

Pied Piper,
Your ignorance is profound and made worse by the fact that you have been here 3 years. If it were 3 weeks it may be excused. Do you know who our PM is, or who John Howard is, Ian Thorpe, Ricky Ponting or what about our Governor General. It is amazing that you do not know who Noel Pearson is, yet you offer opinions and comments about how we treat aboriginals.

You do refer and comment about racism in all your posts and in relation to the Lebs you mentioned blame on religion in your second post here. On a previous thread you claimed that we had 'corrupted the Lebs'. I did ask how but you declined to answer.

So my assesment of your ignorance is correct and you comment on matters you have virtually no understanding about.

Maybe you need to get away from the kids occasionly and have some adult company which will give you some knowledge of 'current affairs' and our society. Or perhaps start a thread on child raising or dealing with problem kids. I am confident you have a wealth of knowledge in these areas and I mean that.

Aussie males may refer to a female as a slut, etc. while with their mates, but not call her such in the street or on the beach. Even today!

Oh, and WASP is usually used in the context that 'WASPS are the most discriminated against group in Aus today'. I do not agree, I think that smokers are and I do not smoke.

Dear Max,

You're right.

The website I quoted is only one man's opinion.

However, it's not the only opinion giving that point
of view. If you were to google -
'Racism in Australia,' you'd find a very wide array
of many more backing up what Bruce Haigh says.

Bruce Haigh speaks from a historical perspective:

"The first identified threat by white settlers was from
thieving, dispossessed Aborigines, who were placed in
the same category as Australian fauna; and then Asians,
who apparently constituted a threat to the wage structure
and racial purity..."

"The Union Movement and 'The Bulletin' magazine urged
maintenance of a white Australia policy and it wasn't
difficult to bring the Squatters and members of the
professional middle class along with them. Keeping
Australia free for the white man was one of the catch
cries for recruitment to the 'First Australian Imperial
Force. The 'White Australia Policy' 'officially' died
with the election of the Labor Whitlam government in 1972;
but it didn't."

"Attitudes in the white macho middle class didn't change.
It was a badge of honour among the emotionally and
intellectually beleaguered (and challenged) conservatives in
the middle class to oppose anything the Whitlam government
instituted."

And, for your information - there are valuable resource
books that contain hundreds of analysis questions
that provide for the fostering of debate and investigation
within the classroom for year ten students dealing with
the subject of racism in Australia - not one denies the
fact that it existed and exists in this country.

In this current educational environment teachers are
constantly expected to address issues in the classroom
which extend a student's own 'world view.' To ask
questions as to 'Why' things were and are occuring -
and to try to find solutions to the problem.

It's not a question of condemnation, finger-pointing,
or accusations - its a question of education - and
how to make things better for the next generations.

ASymeonakis, you wrote that I 'worry from muslims or asians or other migrants,' and ' see them as competitors, as opponents, as a threat'
Where did I write that?
You want to ' bring closer the nationalists (you <you mean me here>) with new migrants'. Here's news for you, a few years ago I was a new migrant. Difference is, I assimilated.

Foxy, 'It was a badge of honour among the emotionally and
intellectually beleaguered (and challenged) conservatives in
the middle class to oppose anything the Whitlam government
instituted' does that mean that to be in opposition to the government of the day somehow reduces ones intellectual capability? Does that mean that, when little Johnny was PM, most Labour members were idiots?

Despite being born here, I’m was child of post-WW2 European immigrants and so I grew up as a “wog” during the sixties so I know what racism looks like, sounds like - and even tastes like- from the victims point of view.

It was the turn of the Vietnamese during the seventies, the Lebanese in the eighties and the Asians (generally) during the nineties and each time the previous victims found acceptance by joining in with the campaign against the current target group.

It’s entirely true that it’s based on a perceived threat but also on jealousy if the new group appear to be more successful that the others.

Some groups benefit economically from having strong family associations and this usually provides economic benefits that other groups may not have.("Nothing wrong with me - there must be something wrong with them").

The threat may be the fear of having your culture “swamped” or seeing them “taking our jobs”. It’s all the same thing.

You can debate it from any angle but it’s a fact that it exists – mainly as a form of tribalism that exists universally to varying degrees.

What I’ve found is that those who make the most noise about it aren’t the victims but those who constantly try to justify reasons for their own intolerance.

Foxx, i don't give a rat's posterior if there are 50,000 people saying it, they used to say the world was flat too, and man would never fly etc, doesn't make them right.The only reason there's so much of that side in schools is it's PC, no-one else is allowed on the curriculum, so that proves nothing.
I'm not claiming there is no predjudice in Oz, I just don't believe PC statistics, or any stat's come to that. too amenable to confirming the beliefs of the gatherers,IMHO.
To my mind there's a world of difference to normal human tribal xenophobia and Racism. People have negative emotional responses to the stranger, the in-comer, the "auslander", that's normal, and is exacerbated by different language or dress or customs, and easily dealt with through education and exposure. Racism is the belief that one particular race is superior or inferior, not the same thing at all

Dear Max,

It is racism that we're talking about on this
thread. Not the fear of the 'auslander.'

And the problem not only exists - its huge!

I've got an article here that was reprinted from
The Age, 27/2/1982 - entitled - "Our Society
getting the right racial mix."

In it Bruce Ruxton (remember him?) was asked,
"What kind of society do you want to see in this
country?"

Ruxton replied:

"...I believe that Australia should remain
predominantly European. Over the years, the
European content is going to be watered down
so much that it just doesn't exist..."

The journalist says:

"There are 15 million people in Australia made
up of 140 different ethnic backgrounds. We speak
90 different languages at home, including Scottish,
Gaelic and Welsh, and we also practice 80 different
religions. Now when you talk about the preservations
of a race. I have to prop a bit. Which race?"

Ruxton replies: "I think Caucasian might cover it."

That attitude is still very much a part of today's
Australia.

Max - You said that you don't give "a Rats..." about
all the various opinions, surveys, reports, media
comments, et cetera - Fair enough. You can deny or
ignore the facts - that doesn't change their existence,
or the need to challenge students to explore and
understand the complex social issues which will confront
them both now and in the future.

We need to provide, as I've stated previously - programs
both at the school and university levels on this topic.
Only by providing thought-provoking material,
accompanied by questions that encourage comprehension
and invite reflection - will
the next generation be able to emerge as thinking individuals
rather than simply inherit the opinion of the group.
Hopefully they will be better informed to
take responsibility for their decisions.
Hopefully they will consider
what they can do for their fellow man,
rather than what they can do for themselves.

Austin Powerless
SORRY! I thought you are a nationalist! Usualy nationalists are worried from new migrants and according to the STUDIES of australian Universities they are worried mainly from muslims, middle east people and asians
THANK YOU FOR THE GOOD NEWS! WHO TELL YOU THAT I DO NOT MAKE MISTAKES? I AM VERY SORRY FOR MY MISTAKE ABOUT YOU!

Banjo
In my opinion no one care for the low income australians who lose their job of cause the foreign student's right to work. Most of low income australians work part time or as casuals. usualy they are migrants, or former farmers or sole parents etc. THESE PERSONS DO NOT HAVE THE POWER, THE WIEGHT TO PRESS THE GOVERNMENT FOR THEIR HUGE PROBLEMS. Usualy they are not member of the Unions and no one care for them.
Banjo
I HAVE A HUGE PROBLEM WITH YOU! My english is not good and I can not use the right words BUT I THINK YOU DO NOT TRY TO UNDERSTAND ME!
I asume you have right, that Lebanese people are not so good as the rest of australians. Tell me how we can solve this problem? how we can bring Lebanese australians closer to the other australians?
Have you got any suggestion, any solusion to the problem?
My suggestion about Australian Lebanese people is very simple
1. Most of Lebanese people, muslims or Christians are exelent persons as most of australians.
2. There are some bad Lebanese people as there are some bad people from any other australian ethnic group.
When we have a problem with any ethnic group we try to encarouge them to come closer to other australians, we try to show them that we are friends of them and we care for them, that their problems hurt not only them BUT all australians and that the solusion of their problem will not benefit only them but it will benefit ALL AUSTRALIANS.
WE HURT WHEN THEY HURT AND WE ARE HAPPY WHEN THEY ARE HAPPY!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Foxxy, you seem confused, sorry I wasn’t clear enough.
I’ve never denied there are some racists here, or idealists, and every shade of every colour in between.
You equate opinions and very dubious statistics as “FACT”, I don’t.
They reflect a certain outlook, or rather a mixture of outlooks, yet due to the herd-like nature of society and academia, they tend to be “socially correct” that’s the nature of the beast. It all swings on what questions you ask, how you phrase them, what numbers you collect, how and from where you collect them, and what you do with the raw data afterwards, it’s all far too complex and assumption based to be reliable.
It doesn’t change the basic facts though, the real ones, that as humans we ALL have an innate xenophobia, and it can and does express itself in racism, yet isn’t necessarily the same thing. Cats and kittens? Cont’-

Cont’-
I balk every time I see people crying racism in situations where it’s only the normal expression of our inbuilt uncertainties, written large because it’s so widespread.
Just look at the numbers quoted, Oz has a population in excess of twenty-four odd million, are you seriously telling me there are 2.4 million KKK types here? SERIOUSLY?
Offhand I’d say you’d be lucky to find a few thousand, though even one is a disgrace.
As for education, we totally agree, yet if only it WAS that way. As far as I have seen, it’s more a case of them pushing the current PC victim mentality, the guilt express, not a variety of outlooks. Teaching kids only one view is NOT challenging them to think, it’s just same old/same old, only the view has changed. I would get out on the streets, (I’ve done it before on education matters, more than once) in support of a program such as you suggest, fair dinkum! I took great pains to ensure my own kids got more than just the standard view, in many ways, and engaged them in discussions as often as possible, with as many different people as possible, THAT’S how to make them think!
I am a great proponent of education, it can solve so many things, just for starters. I spent every year of my kids education on councils and committees, plus gardening and maintenance, plus occasional shifts as a teachers aide and cooking classes, at one point I was doing such at three different schools, lol

Dear AustinP,

You asked me the question:

"...Does that mean that to be in opposition to the
Government of the day somehow reduces one's
intellectual capability?..."

That depends doesn't it, on what it is that you're
opposing. If you oppose everything simply on
Party lines, and against the National Interest,
then perhaps your intellectual capability should be
questioned as should your loyalty to the people you're
supposedly representing.

You further asked me:

"Does that mean that when little Johnny was PM,
most Labor members were idiots?"

Not at all. They only opposed things that practically
all decent, thinking Australians opposed at the time.
Things that lost the Liberals the election and
little Johnny his seat of Bennelong. Making him
only the second PM to lose his seat.

Hope this clear things up for you.

Banjo I should have explained more for you to fairly assess whether I am fully responsible for this ignorance of Noel Pearson.

I got to Aussie 3 years ago, applied to be a foster parent, took ages before training came up. In the meantime I hung out with my teens who were 14 and 15 at the time and since very little had shared me with 80 other foster kids.

I got to know many local teens and their parents and in that time I had to learn about local slang and learnt how they feel about other cultures, mostly the Lebs but certainly the aboriginals came up often. There is really shocking racism where I am and considering what I do shock is not a common emotion.

Okay then kids started arriving, under fives, 28 of them in the next 26 months. Loved it but they weren’t interested in politics and stuff, around 6 of them here at any one time. Great fun but impossible to do anything else or think about anything else.

Yes I asked in the other thread lots why are the Lebs different here and you never told me, Antonios’s post seemed to give a clear indication that they arrived in quite a hostile country and if people feel rejected they often return the feeling.

I can’t get away from the kids, they are little and need me more than most kids would need a grown up.

So lately it has been quiet in my house, only a few kids and I have had time to finally learn some stuff but give me some time to catch up Banjo or help me.

I did discover that very few here have opinions on children, even the political aspect of foster children so no point with opening another thread.

Yes they outwardly call girls sluts, and immigrants worse things.

Still can’t comment on wasps, don’t get it.

STJ – you’re right, would be heaps better if everyone was asked.

The Pied Piper

"Antonios was seeing what solutions might be around" NO Antonios was working overtime and had no free time!
1. The problem with migrants, race discrimination and xenophobia is a huge problem for any country with migrants or with two or more ethnic or religious groups.
2. In australia we have a huge number of migrants from all corners of our planet. Comparing to the number of migrants with the race discrimination and xenophobia we are going well.
3. While we are from the less racist countries on the world of cause the the huge number of migrants we have a big problem from race discrimination and xenophobia. which we must solve, to avoid future bigger problems.
4. This kind of problems can not solve with law and order but with FULL SUPPORT to ethnic groups which have the less acceptance, which have the biggest problems in our society. Muslims and especialy Muslim Lebanese have huge problems in Australia. One in two Sydney people believe that Lebanese do not belong to Australia. We kill them mentaly, we have pushed them in the corner, we isolated them!
6. If you read my discussion with Banjo, not only on this thread I try to convince him to support Lebanese people. OUR TOP PRIORITY SHOULD BE TO SUPPORT LEBANESE PEOPLE, I AM READY FOR A COMMITTEE WHICH WILL PROMOTE THE FRIENDCHIP WITH AUSTRALIAN LEBANESE PEOPLE.
They need urgently our support.
6. Generaly we must promote to the maximum degree the understanding and cooperation between australian ethnic and religious groups, we must biuld bridges between them. The primary schools is the best place to start.
7. We should protect australians from race discrimination and care for fair go and equal opportuniies. It is disappointed that according to human rights comission of UN from 2001 to 2005 no one victim of race discrimination found his/her right in the court.
8. It is very bad to see political parties or leaders to use xenophobia to atract voters or supporters. unfortunatly the mass media is not friendly to migrants
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Come Foxy, with great respect that lunatic you quoted, and from 1982 is not represenative.
AS is a bit different.
Look mate AS please explain this to me.
How can your posts be so very different?
Sometimes word perfect and no over use of the caps key.
Then hard to see what you are thinking about.
Do you understand what a social activists think live and breath?
That I regard a true racist as truly evil?
But that I understand SOME minoritys are much worse racists than others?
If one in ten are racist, only being bared from the forum stops me highlighting, some migrant groups are over represented.
Maybe in fact while small in over all numbers filling a great deal of the one in ten you quote.
You bloke are not reprsenative of your people.
And you willingly find fault with mine, true we have faults but no more or less than ANY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.

Tuesday, 23 June 2009 2:40:13 PM
From" Getup!
To: asymeonakis@....
Dear Antonios,

After 16 months in detention, Kasian was granted a temporary visa. Then he was hit with a $160,000 bill for his "accommodation" in Baxter Detention Centre. There are hundreds more like him - experiencing unimaginable trauma only to then be slugged with an enormous bill for the privilege.

The good news is the Senate is scheduled to vote this week on a bill to overturn this policy, but the bad news is we don't yet have the numbers ensure the bill passes. It is hanging on a knife's edge.

We don't think anyone in good conscience could vote against this bill having heard first hand the impact this policy has on people's lives. That's why we want to send a delegation of refugees to Canberra to tell their stories. Can you chip in to get them there?

This policy means those hit with 'detention debt' cannot get on with their lives: as long as the debt is unpaid, the Government may not grant permanent residency and their lives are left in limbo, causing untold mental anguish.

No other country has a similar policy of billing refugees for their time in detention. And considering only 3.3% of debts are finally collected, the cost of the policy often outweighs the amount received. It just doesn't make sense - financially or morally.

Some Liberal and National Party Senators are considering abandoning their party's position against this bill and Senator Fielding still hasn't made up his mind. Unless we can change key minds in Canberra, this inhumane policy will continue to shatter families' lives. That's where you come in

Belly
"How can your posts be so very different?
I expect from you to understand me! I come from the union movement.As you know unionists do two main steps to solve a problem, they use two different tactics, one to win the support of union members and other labours and one the discussions with employers to solve the problem. I do they same thing here, One time I try to win the support of the victims, of migrants, of their friends and the other step is to create good conditions with the other side, the racisits, nationalists etc and promote the solusion of the problem. OK?
My goal is the solusion of the problem and I have to do some steps forward - backward BUT the goal remain fix to "MINIMIZE THE PAIN AND SUFFERING OF OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS" I do not care at all for their race, religious, age, men or woman, left or right etc.

Belly
"Sometimes word perfect and no over use of the caps key"
You can not understand me about the cups because in Greece we use the cups to underline something, to tell that this is important, IN MY POSTS THE CUPS DO NOT MEAN ANGER.

Belly
"You bloke are not reprsenative of your people" I write as a person not as representative of other people. If you mean I am different from the other Greeks I agree with you. Probably I am the bad one! Why?
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

"What I’ve found is that those who make the most noise about it aren’t the victims but those who constantly try to justify reasons for their own intolerance".

You have a point there, Wobbles.

I notice that billing illegals for their detention has now been thrown in. That has nothing to do with 'racism'. The bloke seems to be getting desperate for ideas. He is now talking about his union activism, and he is disappointed that Belly doesn't 'understand' him, probably because like most people, Belly doesn't agree with him on everything.

Mr. A seems to be some type of allround activist. I don't recall any other immigrant being so uptight about Australia.

All in all, he has become a crashing bore.

Pied piper,
I understand your situation, especially since reading your thread on the Woods recomendations.

With that many kids around, I envy your energy and i wonder if your hubby ever has to pull you up for speaking to him in the same way as you do to the little ones.

It was a bit harsh saying you were ignorant, but it did irk me that someone would comment on aboriginal affairs and not know who Noel Pearson was. Hope your troubles with DoCS is past.

Foxy,
I read the article by Bruce Haigh and it is so incorrect that I would not know where to start. Frankly it is so bad that I think he was being the 'Devils Advocate' to attract a lot of comment.

Antonios,
Why am I a big problem for you? I am straight forward. I do not agree with multiculturalism. It has cost us millions and it seperates people into groups, integration is a better concept. I also think we have enough population and immigration should be cut to zero net.

I do not have any solutions to fix the problem we have with Lebanese muslims. They do not get on with anglo Aussies or other ethnic groups and apparently not with other muslims either.

Because they will not or cannot integrate my suggestion is not to allow any more to immigrate. There are a few other groups that I would dissallow as well. The Croats and Serbs bring their old hatreds here and fight each other, so stop them. Those groups that carry out FGM. We have tried education to no avail so stop them and those groups that force their daughters into marriage. Those groups that continue to hold cockfights and dog fights should be stopped from coming here.

Some cultural actiities are very hard to counter and all the groups mentioned have cultural activities that are alien to us. Seeing they will not alter their ways, if we want an harmonious community we have to stop more of those groups from coming

Thanks AS with respect I can not understand why your posts like say the last three here are so different.
And are you saying the senate vote not to let the government bill pass the house on charging those fees would prove we are racist?
IF 10% of us are racists
Then 10% of out migrants are too.
No not in my mind I think that number in SOME groups is about 8%
So do your sums and maybe, not kidding AS. less than 10% of us are bigoted idiots.
Now your posts, bet your wife or a child helped in the last couple its no crime mate look at my spelling!
will fix my spell check today by by fire fox.

Dear Max,

I was so relieved to read your last post,
and couldn't help smiling. 'That's more
like it!' I thought. That's the Max I've
come to know on OLO!

It seems that we're not that far apart in
our thinking afterall, except perhaps for
the way you view the teachings of schools
and universities - in pushing only one
point of view.

I disagree. Because it would
go against the ethos of any decent teacher or
university lecturer. Their role as educators
is to challenge students to explore, ask
questions, analyse, discuss, and research issues
so that students would be better able
to understand the complex social issues
such as racism, which will confront them both now
and in the future.

Students are taught to always bear in mind that
there is more than one side to every story.
They are taught that it is important to know
who said what and why in order to be able to detect
the bias that may exist.

They are taught how to do research and to find
source material that gives the information required
because no one item can cover everything.

Anyway, Max - Thanks for bothering to respond
to my posts.

Belly, Thanks for the reminder. I too want to ask Antonios about why he posted that bit about charging illegal entrants for their stay in detention.

Antonios,
Do you think that charging illegal entrants for their detention proves we are racist? Do you think that if we exercise border control ammounts to racism?

Why do you think that an illegal is held in detention for a long period? Is it because we are racist or that the detainee told lies to the immigration officials and kept giving incorrect information and used the appeals process to try and pull a swifty? Why would he lose his idenity and travel documents? He needed them to get to Indonesia did he not? If he has mucked us around for all that time, should he not pay for it?

The illegals that are bona fide get through in reasonable time. It is the ones that lie that are the problem. The one that lies could be anything, a criminal on the run, a serial rapist, a convicted thief. Should we just allow whoever to walk into our country? If we are lax, it would soon be exploited.

I see that Banjo's still rabbiting on about "Lebs" and "illegals".

I can't imagine why anybody would think he's a racist.

Banjo

For the kazillionth time:

The majority of boat people were found to be genuine asylum seekers.

The time spent in detention had nothing to do with "lying", but everything to do with the method of processing.

See:

"The Age
EDITORIAL
September 30, 2006

Mohammed Sagar is an island on an island: as the last asylum seeker on Nauru, caught between the country he fled in 2001 and the country where he wanted to be, he is as isolated as the place where he has been held for five years.

For a year, there were two of them left on Nauru: Sagar and Muhammad Faisal, both Iraqi refugees, escaping persecution. In August last year, an ASIO assessment found both men "a risk to Australia's national security", without further explanation or recourse, and they were kept behind while 25 other refugees were allowed to enter Australia, mainly on the grounds that to remain on Nauru would be psychologically damaging...

As Michael Gordon reports in The Age today, Sagar lives a surreal existence in a cabin outside the gates of Nauru's state house processing centre. Inside are seven recently arrived Burmese refugees - the first to be sent to Nauru by Australia for four years. "I don't want to be happy," Sagar says. "I just want my life back." In effect, it has been stolen from him by the Australian Government, whose unyielding immigration policy - the so-called Pacific Solution - allows for mandatory indefinite detention on a hot, desolate and near-bankrupt island, without recourse to proper legal facilities and without thought for the human condition unless that condition becomes life-threatening. If that is the solution, how much worse is it than the problem? The truly disgraceful aspect of this entire saga is the severe mental trauma such confinement has caused or threatens to cause."
http://www.safecom.org.au/nauru-limbo.htm

Finally, have you never lost your wallet or anything in your life? Try keeping onto documents while fleeing for YOUR life.

Banjo you are entitled to an opinion, but at least base it on the facts and not your imagination.

Banjo
"No other country has a similar policy of billing refugees for their time in detention" "After 16 months in detention, Kasian was granted a temporary visa. Then he was hit with a $160,000 bill for his "accommodation" in Baxter Detention Centre"
Does not it say to you anything? What kind of human are we? Instead we to apolozgize to refugees for their long detention we ask them to pay accommodation?
What kind of fair go is for refugees when they start with $160,000 dept?
Do not you feel shame that AUSTRALIA IS THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD WHERE REFUGEES HAVE TO PAY ACCOMODATION FOR THEIR DETENTIION?
If we are so hard to refugees, to foreigners do you expect from us to be much better to other migrants who live in australia?
Do not you know that in australia live people from all corners of our planet?
When we behave with so hard way to their people, who came here as refugees, do not you know that we hurt them?
Who cares for them! Exactly! I say we do not care very much for our migrants, for their sensitivities, for their worries, for their interests!
Our behave to refugees is an INDERECT prove to our behave to migrants in australia!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

CJM,
Again I say to you that Lebs is an abreviation of Lebanese muslim. there is nothing racist about that and in fact they refer to themselves that wasy. "We're not Aussie, We're Lebs even though I was born here" Hey, I call Britons, poms or pommys and those from across the ditch, Kiwis, Is that racist too?

Illegals is short for 'illegal entrant' or 'unlawful entrant'. Since when are these terms racist. Did you not chastize the moderators here recently for not being correct. Perhaps you should define the meaning of racist for your own benefit. I will not sucumb to your efforts to get all to comply with your PC softer terms.

Antonois,
From all that you said you did NOT answer any of my questions.

You say "Our behave to refugees is an INDERECT prove of our behave to migrants in australia"

Do I now assume that you beleive our behaviour to illegals is racist and that flows on to all other migrants in Aus?

Also you still have not answered why I am a big problem to you or earlier, how much time should we give migrants to integrate?

Leigh
Thank you very much for your promotion! I know you worry very much for Australia's future, you do not trust ethnics, even me!
If you love australia, START FROM NOW TO BUILD BRIDGES WITH MIGRANTS, WITH ETHNIC MINORITIES.
Leigh I said you that I am a friend but you do not like to listen to me! Your way is hopeless! Your way drive to nowhere! Come with us, with most australians, open your heart to muslims, asians or meddle east people!
Good australian is the australian who understand and accept and cooperate and respect all australians from any race or religious group.


Belly
Already I explained you. I try to keep a door, a window open!I try to build a bridge with the other side, nationalists, racists etc, I try to keep the discussion with them alive! It is not easy, they do not like to understand me but I have to try.
About the spelling realy I do not care very much about it, not only for the english but for greek too. For me the words, the langualage is only a communication tool, if you can understand me that is ENOUPH!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaid

Australia's handling of asylum seekers (particularly children) over the years has not been something we should be proud of however I personally think if only 1 in 10 Aussies are racist that is something to be proud of even though the ideal would be the unobtainable zero.

The level of racism in many other countries makes our level of racism pale by comparison. My friends and I have had our bums pinched in numerous countries where white Western women are seen as different and not deserving of respect despite modest dress.

This is not to excuse the racist element in Australia nor to deny we can do better, merely to put it in perspective. I must live in a different land to everyone else but I see very little racist elements where I live nor among my peers.

I am wary of the interpretation of statistics. For example, how many of the 1 in 10 were foreign born Australians or non-citizens reflecting their views about white Australians of European origin. The accusations of racism always tend to be directed to the WASPs (White Anglo-Saxon Protestants) without any in-depth studies of the tensions and attitudes that exist inter and intra many other groups within Australia.

That being said it is fair to say that racist and negative attitudes towards WASPs have less impact, because by and large WASPs are more empowered and heavily represented at senior levels in the private and public sector and in politics.

If you ask some Middle Eastern born Australians they may be 'racist' or intolerant toward European Australians because of the way we dress and vice-versa.

Being adverse to some of the customs of other cultures such as the wearing of the burqa, bikini or polygamy is not racism. Being wary of some of the more fundamentalis Muslim or Christian traditions is not racism. Islam and Christianity are religions not races.

If we are going to throw around the racism label we must be careful to explore further into the statistics and define what we mean by racism.

Banjo
"Why I am a big problem to you" I mean I have hoped that you will change mind about Lebanese but you DO NOT! YOU HURT ME but I am sure you are not so bad as you seem!
"how much time should we give migrants to integrate?" The time depends on our behave to them! If we isolate them, if we reject them, if we hurt them, if we make them to hate us, to create and live in their geto, then they will NEVER integrate!
When the fathers of australia decided for the multiculturalismus they did it because they knew THAT MULTICULTURALISMUS IS THE BEST WAY TO INTEGRADE THE MINORITIES, THE MIGRANTS.
If fanatic nationalists have turned all their hate against Lebanese people and left no space, no oxygen for our Lebanese Australian brothers and sisters, then their integration will be very difficult, very hard and it will take long, long time.
The behave from any minority to majority depends from the behave of majority to specific minority.
IT IS TIME FOR YOU TO SUPPORT THE CREATION OF AN ORGANIZATION WHICH WILL PROMOTE THE FRIENDCHIP WITH OUR LEBANESE-AUSTRALIAN BROTHERS!
You asked me why you are a big problem to me. Because I asked you so many times to support them and you ignore me! First time I met a person to ignore his friend so badly!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Antonious
A Frienship Organisation between Lebanese/Middle Eastern Australians and others is a good idea. Efforts have to be made on both sides of the divide on this issue or it won't work. Perhaps a multi-cultural frienship organisation bringing together people from many different ethnic backgrounds.

pelican
We speak for an 11-year study by a collaboration of Australian universities.
I wrote as title "1 in 10 ‘racial SUPREMASISTS", not simple racists.
According to this study , 85 per cent of Australians acknowledge racial prejudice occurs in the nation and one in five has been a victim of racist verbal abuse, FORTY per cent of Australians believe some ethnic groups do not belong in the country with one in 10 having outwardly racist views.
In realy 4 to 10 or 40% of australians are racists!
I know that in most others countries the racists are more than 40% but I thought it will beter if we start cleaning our yard first!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Bazz I agree with most but not all of that post re charging for detention.
And I do not find your remarks racist, however we should not charge for detention.
We do not for prisoners so why charge people who just can not pay.
I will not be put down by the very left who tell us we should not say who comes here and how.
I remain baffled by AS just why are the posts so different?
And if we are not having our legs puled its hard for me to believe we are any different than other country's.
Good points about religion, I distrust them all, have seen bigotry in all and great harm done to native people from every Pacific Island in their name.
not racism but in its way just as dangerous.
In an earlier post here I said some things branded racism are just miss understanding of intent.
But in thread after thread AS questions us all.
I welcome people from any country in the world learnt much from them, but if we are so bad why not leave?

Fractelle,
You are right about one thing. I do not think highly of the so called 'boat people' or 'illegals'. In the main they are not the desperate and deprived souls their advocates try to make out.

From the moment they step aboard the boat they are committing an illegal act and they are quite aware of that. The last couple of boats sailed direct to Christmas Island, no pretence about getting to the mainland in it. They know the shorter time at sea the safer they are and the quicker they can get permanent residence in Aus. They also know they can get refuge in closer countries but not with the same attractions. Our welfare system is the big lure.

They needed their identity and travel documents to get to and while in Indonesia but once on the way the doubtfull ones throw the docs. overboard so they can tell our officials any cock and bull story they like and make it more diffucult to be checked. Our criteria is also lower than that of many countries and the UN.

I noticed in all the stories about being detained they never mention WHY their assesment is taking so long. Because they have lost (destroyed or discarded) their documents and they have lied to our officials. When someone actually loses his docs. a photo shown in places he frequented can easily verify who he is, etc. Bear in mind we are paying for his legal representation during the whole process and the appeals as well.

Cont.

Fractelle,

I usually ignore you for the silly sausage you are; but your supreme naivety about “The majority of boat people were found to be genuine asylum seekers.” Is just too much.

These unidentifiable people are coached into learning 3 different stories – depending on how many illegals have recently used one story or another. (Yes I do have first- hand knowledge of this). Immigration officers are told to follow a set routine, and whether or not they are being lied to doesn’t come into as far as scared-of-offending anyone public servants and politicians go.

And, anyone who comes to Australia in the way they do is an illegal, whether you like the sound of that or not.

ASymeonakis,

Calling you ‘some sort of activist’ is not a promotion. I never said that I do not trust ethnics, but I confess that I do not trust you anymore than anyone else who thinks like you, and I do not wish to be your friend; nor do I wish to be your enemy. I don’t want to be anything to you.

I do not like it suggested that I’m not a “good” Australian either because I don’t like what you say.

I have no problems with immigrants who do not try to demand that their host culture change things just for them.

As for you obsession with ‘racism’, you are going to make yourself ill; nothing you say will make any difference to what people think.

Having said that I accept most immigrants, I will never “open my heart to muslims” (your words). Islam is a threat to the Western world and always will be because they are not allowed to interpret the Koran in any way but the original meanings. Not all Muslim individuals are violent Islamists, of course, but we just don’t know which are which, and the risk of Muslim immigration is too high, as will be proved.

Foxy, your statement read, 'It was a badge of honour among the emotionally and intellectually beleaguered (and challenged) conservatives in the middle class to oppose anything the Whitlam government instituted'. How does that equate with opposing 'things that practically all decent, thinking Australians opposed at the time'? Or does the rule only apply to one party?

You wrote that if one was to 'oppose everything simply on Party lines, and against the National Interest, then perhaps your intellectual capability should be questioned ' - see first sentence here - same thing, eh?

Didn't clear things up for me.

Dear AustinP,

Firstly - the statement was not mine, but that of
Bruce Haigh who wrote the article in the website
I cited, entitled,
'Racism in Australia.'
I merely responded to the questions you asked.

However, if this did not clear things up for you -
then may I humbly suggest that you visit the
website I gave - read the entire article for
yourself - and make your own assumptions about
what Haigh was saying.

pelican
"A Frienship Organisation between Lebanese/Middle Eastern Australians and others is a good idea" THANK YOU!

"Efforts have to be made on both sides of the divide on this issue or it won't work." You have right, this is very important, I try to build bridges, to open doors, to improve my relations with nationalists and other people who worry from muslims, and especialy from Lebanese Muslims, I think 56% of Sydney people are not very friendly to them! I hope you have some good ideas how to improve our relations with both sides. Be sure the hardliners will not support any idea for friendchip with Lebanese but I think the mass majority of australians will agree.

"Perhaps a multi-cultural frienship organisation"
pelican, THIS IS THE BEST! with this way we will have the chance to involve with many other important issues related with migrants, ethnic and religious minorities.

Do you live in Sydney or Melbourne? If yes we have the president or Secretary of this association.
I would like to be member from its committee! I want to work for it.

pelican
Let's start the work for a multi-cultural frienship organisation.

In my next post I will write some ideas about this organization.

Dear Antonios,

There already exists an organisation called -
"Australians Against Racism," founded by
Dr Eva Sallis - who lives in Adelaide,
South Australia. She visits the Middle-East
regularly, and has the support of many
Middle-Eastern communities.

You can visit her website on:

http://www.australiansagainstracism.org/

And click onto "Background," to get the entire
history of the organisation.

You may also find it interesting to click onto -
"Projects," and
"Billboards."

It will give you a good summary of what they have
already achieved.

pelican
"Australian multi-cultural frienship organisation"

Few thoughts about it.

1, to promote the cultures of all australian ethnic and religious groups.
2, To promote the understandind and cooperation between all australian ethnic and religious groups.
3. To support any desadvantaged ethnic or religious group.
4. To promote the basic human rights and democratic values

1. OPEN for memberchip to any friend of MULTICULTURARISMUS,withouht any kind of discrimination.
2. fully democratic in all its levels and depth, local, state or national, local base, state or national committees.
3. intependant the organization WILL NOT allowed to become member of any political party or any other organization which is controled directly or indirectly from any political party or political organization.

1. cooperation with federal, state and local governments.
2. cooperation with Ethnic or religious groups in national, state or local level,
3. cooperation with community organizations or Trade Unions in national, state or local level
4. cooperations with mass media in federal, state and local level.
5. On the internet with web pages or in forums like the forum.onlineopinion.com.au, etc.

National level
1.
a)National Central Council the highest body of the organization, which will consist from 18 members, from them 7 will be the state-teritory presidents, the rest members will be elected from state elections according to the number of members for each state.
b) The council will be for three years and ie will meet at least one time per year.

2. a)The National exucative committee will consist from 7-9 members, from which at least 4 members will be presidents of state committees.
b) Will be elected for three years from the national central council.
c) Will have meating at least every three months or when more often if they decide it.


1. state council consist from 18 members who are elected from the general meating of the state members.
2. will last three years
3. will electe the state exucative committee
4 will have meatings at least one per year.

Anual member fees NO MORE THAN $20 PER YEAR

Foxy
"There already exists an organisation called -
"Australians Against Racism,"
Foxy there is no organizasion, in local, state or national level. no members, no commitees, no colective work, NOTHING etc.
Dr Eva Sallis give her personal fight against race discrimination but it have nothing to do with an organization.
The .org on internet most times, does not mean a real organization, open or mass or democratic organization. In her web site there is nothing about members or committees in local, state or national level.
A multi-cultural frienship organisation is many times more important than an organization against race discrimination. Only the title from her organization automatic close many DOORS.
With a multi-cultural frienship organisation we can fight the race discrimination with better results and a smarter way.
WITH A multi-cultural frienship organisation WE CAN ENTER EASILY IN VARIOUS AND IMPORTANT FIELDS AND PLAY A ROLE FOR THE FUTURE OF THIS COUNTRY,
You know FOXY you know !
With this kind of population synthesis , with very fast changes of population synthesis, with alive yet the memories of white australia etc WITH...WITH... multi-cultural frienship organisation can play a role in the shaping the future of this country!
If you are not a beaurocrat with your hands chained give a hand for the creation of the multi-cultural frienship organisation.
Australia for the next 80-100 years will be malleable and plenty work could be from the background! A multi-cultural frienship organisation could be very good for this environment!

Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Factelle Cont. (Sorry over posting quota)

Recall that Balk(something) bloke with the 2 boys, and the bleeding hearts were jumping up and down about us not letting them stay. Lead everyone on a wild goose chase and he turned out to be a total fraud. Different country even.
How many frauds have we let in?

Former staff of detention centres have stated that they held thousands of dollars (usually US) for detainees in safes, so it would not be stolen by others. So many have money but they seek asylum because they then get permanent resident visa which allows them to bring out the rest of the family and obtain access to our welfare.
Former staff also have said that detainees told them of the good accommodation they stayed at in Indonesia, while waiting for the boats arrangements to be completed.

Some actually payed for light aircraft to take them to Aus and met at remote airstrips by friends here. Not difficult to arrange. .

It has all been a big con on us with deceit from the start to end. They are coached to play the victim At present the boats are nearly all of young men who know that they will have a couple of months relaxing in a good climate, maybe a spot of fishing or basketball, and then 'permanent residence' in Aus. You beauty!

Soon as got visa and in Aus, set up house and begin process to bring rest of family here. When that is done, fly back to old country, sell stuff and bring family here in 747.

When the law is changed not to charge them for their accommodation at Christmas Island it will attract more and more. The current accommodation charge is part of the deterrent package.

There are far more people in the world that deserve much more of our compassion than the illegal boat people.

The Pied Piper
Where are you? I need you!
pelican has a good idea for a multi-cultural frienship organisation.
I always agree that we need an OPEN, MASS, INDEPENTANT , DEMOCRATIC organization to promote the understanding and cooperation between australians, between various etnic and religious groups in our country.
A multi-cultural frienship organisation could do many things with the minimum cost for our society, it is the best kind of organizations to build bridges and overpass useless fights and misunderstandings.
Only if we go where the people are, only if we mixed with australian people we have the hope to realize our goals, to create a better future for our country!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Banjo: << Hey, I call Britons, poms or pommys and those from across the ditch, Kiwis, Is that racist too? >>

If you use those terms with the same evident disdain for their objects as you use "Lebs", then yes. Just because some marginalised members of the Lebanese community have appropriated what was originally a term of abuse (in much the same way that "wogs" and "n1ggers" have) doesn't mean that it's still not a racist term of abuse when used in the way you do.

You still persist, despite being made aware of the verifiable facts, in labelling asylum seekers as "illegals", and denigrating them on the basis of what is at best anecdotal slander.

In fact, you're exactly the kind of racist that the surveys quoted in the original post identify. While it's very unlikely that you'll ever acknowledge that or change your bigoted views, I'll continue to point it out when you post hateful claptrap here.

If I could be bothered, that is.

Dear Antonios,

If you were to click onto the website I gave you
and actually click onto the various links - to
see exactly what the organisation does - or even
contact them directly (an address is given) and ask
them to send you information on their work - you'd
realise just what I am talking about. They are
achieving a great deal, are well-organised, have
contacts throughout Australia - including rural
Australia, as well as internationally.
It isn't enough to just go into the website -
you have to actually click onto the various given
headings such as - "Background," "Projects,"
"Links," "Contact," "Schools," and so on.

They are looking for volunteers to help them - if
nothing else - contacting them may be of benefit
to you if you are serious about achieving something.

It's up to you.

Banjo

Your posts are full of hearsay and a distortion of the truth, what is wrong with wanting your family to be here, safe in Australia? And why such a focus on boat people - they are so few and as I have stated are more likely to be genuine refugees than the thousands who arrive by plane.

Even mainstream tabloid news has realised this fact:

"The 600-odd "boat people" intercepted by Border Protection Command ships in the seven months since September last year are dwarfed by the 2887 "plane people" who claimed asylum within Australia during the same time period, Department of Immigration records show."

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/822830/plane-people-eclipse-illegal-boat-arrivals

Also note that the majority of asylum seekers arriving by boat are from the Middle East which I am sure you have noticed is ravaged by wars to which we as Australians have contributed.

Even the Australian newspaper admits that the vast majority of boat people are genuine even while focussing on people smuggler, Mr Bostan:

" But figures from the Immigration Department suggest the overwhelming number of boat arrivals are genuine refugees.

Earlier this week, the Immigration Department had finalised a total of 169 cases.

Of those, 150 had been resettled in Australia after they were found to be owed protection, while 14 were refused and five were sent home.

....

The figures mean that almost 90 per cent of the boatpeople to be processed since September have been found to be genuine refugees."

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25515029-5006785,00.html

Antonios,
What I think you and a few others do not understand is that criticism is not racism.

Pelican quite capably pointed this out earlier. Criticism of a persons conduct, a religion or culture is not racism.

The Lebs and the Croats and Serbs are now up to 3 generations here and their alien cultural practices are handed down from generation to generation. If their attitudes have not changed by now, there is little hope they will change in the future. We have tried education for FGM over the last 15 years and the incidence is rising. It is now time we started to uphold the laws on this and begin to prosecute the parents. Same with forced marriages. Cockfighting is still continued despite frequent raids and court appearances.

These activities are not only alien to anglo Aussies but to the vast majority of newly arrived migrants as well. The vast majority of migrants adjust and get on with their lives but that does not excuse the few groups that do not.

Should we simply continue to ignore the disruption and contempt for our laws and society? There are some, like CJM, who think all non-anglos are above any criticism.

The only way I can see to combat the alien aspects is to not import more of the groups that are the cause of the issues. You may as well try to turn the tide with a bucket as try to change the entrenched cultural activities.

The stark reality is that not all cultures are capable of adapting to the concept of living with others.

Do you want us to end up like France, where the authorities classed last new years eve as ‘good’ in that the rioters only burnt 1147 cars. I want better than that for our kids

Sorry Antonios I have been reading. I read too much over the weekend and I ran away for awhile. The feeling reading about the money the immigrants are charged and then how they can’t get on with their lives and then the reactions to them here. Combined with the feeling about the forgotten ones and then as usual I can’t get the foster children out of my mind and what the government is doing to them.

I think I had a slightly pathetic and self indulgent little breakdown; my husband was so worried that he asked if I would like to return to NZ. My immediate answer was no I bought my children here and they won’t leave now but I doubt they have learnt or witnessed or understood what I have. I don’t run away from things but I do need to focus. If I try and help everyone I will fail everyone.

It has to be the children Antonios, the children are the key to everything else. If our children are taught compassion, pride and commitment then I believe all else will follow. They will be the ones that do not tolerate such hurt to their peers or those under their guardianship.

Teaching them should begin in schools, learning about other cultures (incl aboriginal) and acceptance. The immigrant children should also get to learn about Australian culture. Although I would love to know what would be in that curriculum.

Before the children can learn they must be safe.

Fractelle,
You are the one distorting the truth. You are being fruadulent, by ommission, and shot yourself in the foot doing so.

Yes, some illegals do come here by passenger airline, but what you ommitted to say is that they are sent packing immediately. In fact the airlines have to convey them back to where they boarded and 97% are gone within 72 hours. The rest take a little longer because of flight schedules and so on. But am positive you know that.

So contrary to what you try to suggest, illegals arriving by air are not a problem and good ridance to them.

Why the focus on boat people. Well simply because they are trying to put one over us, they are queue jumpers, they force themselves upon us with any consideration for others that may be more deserving. They do not care about quarantine or customs and could be bringing all manner of disease or pestulance to our shores (that is why the boats are burnt)

They have resorted to putting their children in the sea in effort to get their way, they do destroy their identy docs. and sabotarge their boats so our navy has to take them on board. Of the 14 you say were refused and 5 sent home. The remaining 9 cannot be sent home until our officials establish where their home is. Yep, they are up to every little trick.

Not much good about them is there?

But your credibility is now shot, so end of conversation.

Antonious
Those are healthy goals. Thank you for your faith in me as President/Secretary but I think you are more than qualified and enthusiastic to start such a group in your local area. Friendship groups are one way for people to get to know and understand each other and to realise in the end we are all really very much the same.

I note there are many friendship and organisation groups around Australia. You probably already know about this website:

http://www.fecca.org.au/

Banjo: << But your credibility is now shot, so end of conversation. >>

According to Banjo's own criteria, there's no point in talking to him about his xenophobic lies and distortions. Like I said earlier, he's very unlikely to shift from his deeply held bigotry.

Anybody who still claims, despite all the evidence, that the appalling "children overboard" lie perpetrated by the Howard regime was factual, is either an out and out racist bigot, incredibly dumb, or both.

In Banjo's case, I'm opting for the latter.

“But your credibility is now shot, so end of conversation.
Posted by Banjo, Monday, 29 June 2009 6:08:43 PM”

Put it where the sun don’t shine Banjo baby.

Hey Antonios, Pelican is right about your enthusiasm. Would it be practical to have a website or be part of one that supports immigrants like with a forum? Would it be of use to ask for e-mail pals, match immigrants up with an Aussie that has been around for awhile so if they have difficulties they could ask dumb questions like “Who is Noel Pearson?”

I would have to be on the immigrant list and I want my e-mail pal to be Banjo.[grin].

I had a think about children and learning about others and thought if every school had some nice sized digital photo frames that you could watch the other kids from other cultures talking on about their countries and saying hello to the Aussie kids. Little fun things so they equate other cultures with fun.

In NZ... completely different type thing… in the malls we have these big screens with cameras and microphones and they are on all the time and linked with other malls around the country. You can call out to people in other towns. Do you have them here? Be amazing in schools at lunchtime linked to schools in other countries

PP, that’s probably the best idea I’ve heard of in ages!
With the Net now available across the world, it would be simple to co-ordinate. Allowing for time zones might introduce some confusion, yet could be dealt with, with a little practice. ONYA!

pelican
NO, I do not mean an organization as fecca! They depend on government's money and they used from the governments to cover their policies about ethnic or religious minorities and multiculturarism.
Howard's government attacked agresively ethnic and regilious minoroties, Howard's government attacked agresively attacked multiculturasism BUT fecca did nothing to defent multiculturasism,ethnic and regilious minoroties. Even they was not brave enouph to resign!
Many of communitee associations are closed to new members, are other non democratic and other exist only as stamps.
Many members of mecca come from this kind of community associations, and they have very little contact with their communities.
They did nothing to democratize the ethnic communities, they did nothing to bring the migrants in their community organizations.
I know a Greek association with good relations with South Australian authorities. One time the primier and governor of South australia went to their even, few months later I spoke to members of the committee of this association about serious mistakes of their president.
In the next meeting of the committee they replaced their president, 7 to replace 2 against it. Few weeks later I learned that the replaced president expelled the 7 members of the committee who dicided to replace him!
One expelled the 7! There is a huge problem in community associations but fecca does not do anything to support them, and the governments, I supposed, prefer semi-dead community organizations!
I WANT AN INTEPENDANT, OPEN, MASS, DEMOCRATIC, ACTIVE ASSOCIATION READY TO FIGHT FOR MULTICULTURARISM AND ETHNIC-RELIGIOUS MINORITIES RIGHTS.
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

In that case, I want an INDEPENDENT, OPEN, MASS, DEMOCRATIC, ACTIVE ASSOCIATION READY TO DEFEND AGAINST MULTICULTURISM AND ETHINIC/RELIGIOUS MINORITIES RIGHTS!
Multiculturism is “divide and rule”, and an insult to thinking people.
The minorities “rights” already over-rule most aussies desires, why encourage them?
You want to live in this country? Live as we do.
You want to live like you did in the country you left? Go back!
This is AUSTRALIA, NOT a U.N. camp!
You suffer from prejudice? Tough, it happens everywhere, get over it, adapt, assimilate, your grandkids WON’T.
Encouraging and abetting the things that divide us is NOT the way to teach tolerance and acceptance, patience and education will though.
I like P.P.’s idea, big-screen permanent international links, kids will grow up knowing that the other kids around the world really aren’t that much different, it would be a flarbling good start.

Thank you for retrieving that post Whistler. This time I put it in here on purpose as it seemed the most appropriate current discussion.

I am really shocked and hadn’t picked up on it before that the aboriginals didn’t have citizenship before 1967. When Australia wanted white immigrants only was that racist or was it about the education or qualifications they got from the people of predominantly white countries at the time?

Oh you do have “acceptance of the aboriginal community” – like in NZ one can “identify” with a tribe and be accepted. But I believe you must pick one and not waver. I would like multi-cultural status. The government wont fund a lot of aboriginal foster services to take on non-indigenous carers. So they effectively stop the aboriginal orgs from being as useful as they could. This must be considered racist and discriminatory…?

The “integration by self-determination” while seeming fair and respectful in reality becomes indulgent and exclusive doesn’t it. If you really want to be part of the rest of Australia you can but after all that has gone before all we can do is just help you when you feel like cruising in.

Why isn’t there a positive message of come join the club, we need you educated and working with us because without you Australia will never be a nation that is balanced, grounded and proud.

Hey Thank you Max, I completely forgot about the time zone stuff maybe if it began in Aussie between Aboriginal schools, predominantly Muslim schools etc. I was trying to think of ideas where the teachers aren’t required to do even more than they do already.

I think if you are white Australian who is not affected by different cultural influences directly then it could appear ugly, this reality.
However the reality is the same for many Australians that are white as it was for some indigenous Australians. of course nowhere as bad, but along the same lines.

I totally embraced multiculturalism, more so than anyone I ever knew. I was severely mistreated and humiliated, more than once, by men who have very different values towards women than how we were brought up to believe. This happened in marriage, relationships and workplace. Effectivey my embrace of this utopia called multiculturism has ruined my life.

Now I see my niece as open hearted as I was once and really want to stop her relationship with the young handsome migrant as I see in him the same as I have seen before.

I can't of course, but appears I am now a racist after so many years of being on the frontline of the welcoming committee. Of course this can happen in any race, any culture but when you are powerless to speak out against the elements that hurt some, then what do you do?

So be it. I am racist, if only to protect future generations against cultural influences that are at the expense of women.

Plus my problems, the problems from migrants are nothing compared to real racism that exists toward indigenous. Like we are all spoilt children moaning for a month over a brusied knee when real illness is left unattended.

Hey Missus, it’s weird the lessons we learn. My upper class English defacto in-laws didn’t like me because I had two kids to their son but wasn’t particularly interested in marriage. My Italian in-laws didn’t like me because although I married him I could not have children. The children never accepted in either family like their cousins were.

Hard to please people in this world. Your niece will find her own way and you never know, she may get through okay?

I really know very little about the Aboriginals, most of it has been gathered from here and a few weeks ago I read “Follow the Rabbit Proof Fence’. I also read lots of a site about Aboriginal culture but there was no one to question. I know I have to do more than read but I’m not sure what it is.

So you’re problem with many immigrants is they come from sexist cultures? I can understand that one and obviously the personal stuff that has happened.

But what do we want for our children and our sisters’ children? What do you want for them Missus?

Maximillion
"I want an INDEPENDENT, OPEN, MASS, DEMOCRATIC, ACTIVE ASSOCIATION READY TO DEFEND AGAINST MULTICULTURISM AND ETHINIC/RELIGIOUS MINORITIES RIGHTS!"
You want to violate the international law, to violate the human rights, to violate migrants rights!
I do not want to violate your rights, I respect you and your rights and I am ready to defend your rights! What realy I want is to stop you to violate my rights!
There is a huge difference between what I want and what you want. I want respect to my basic rights. You want to return to white australia!
I understand you! BUT you do not care for justice, you do not care for equal opportunities, you do not care for cooperation and mutual benefits! You care ONLY for your race privileges!
Maximillion, my dear friend WHITE AUSTRALIA IS DEAD! You have no other choice than to accept the australian reality. Respect migrants rights, ethnic and religious minorities rights and prepair your self to live withouht race privileges!
Do not worry I understand you and if you need support I will stand by you! I AM A GOOD FRIEND!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Maximillion
"Go back!"
My dear friend you are not the first one who said me to go back, all national extremists say me the same thing. "go back!"
I will never say you or anyone with similar ideas as as yours, "GO BACK TO WHITE AUSTRALIA"
May be because I know that the white australia is dead!
Maximilian my dear friend you want "TO DEFEND AGAINST MULTICULTURISM AND ETHINIC/RELIGIOUS MINORITIES RIGHTS!" Our rights as ethnic or religious minorities, our rights as migrants are protected from the international law.
Most of us (minorities) are australian citizens and we have exactly the same rights like you, it is an other story if a big number of australians ignore and violate our rights.
Maximillion you want a Democratic association? Do not you know that privilege and democratic principles are oposite things? It is seemed to me that between race privilege and democracy you prefer THE PRIVILEGE!
A PERSON WHO FIGHT AGAINST MINOROTIES RIGHTS HE PUT HIM SELF AUTOMATIC OPOSITE FROM THE DEMOCRACY!
Minorities' rights are fundamental rights, fundamental corner stones of a democratic system. Anyone who fight against MINOROTIES RIGHTS in real he fights against our democratic system!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide