“Jewels, few women need to experience anything at all of the pain and fatigue of birth today and few choose to do so, sensibly.”

Bloody wooses. Problem with normal childbirth is that woman have forgotten how which really has to go back to male doctors I guess.
Maybe that is something men should have butted out of. NRL players just leave the field if they have a booboo don’t they?

“Why do you ridicule the idea that men might gain some insight through an arduous challenge?”

Did I ridicule – wouldn’t think so… couldn’t even spell it without copying you. I’m all for a challenge and I love men. But men don’t have any monopoly on physical challenges Antiseptic. The insight in both playing footy and giving birth is just the knowing you will generally survive; this is sort of at the lower end of the “wisdom” scale isn’t it?

But in the work place does it matter, really? Oh I’ve just messed up my own argument about DoCS. Did I just switched sides...

Okay nah I didn’t, it has to be more balanced. NRL needs some women stepping up and DoCS need some big brave men in their ranks. In both cases people may have been right for the job but the culture within the workplace has prevented it. I think I better just point out I don’t know a thing about the NRL or who currently runs it.

Sancho, you hate women? All of them? From what age? Feminists generally don’t like me but I think are coming round lately to where being a wife or mother or combination by choice is acceptable again. I did have to listen Germain the other night on TV going on about how it still wasn’t okay which really wasn’t a woman supporting another woman’s choices far as I could see. And on a personal level, yeah I could take her so what do I care.

How can you hate women, just stick to hating feminists, the logic is sounder… I’ll hate them with you if it’s any help.

Self to self:

"No, Fractelle, you did not wake up in an alternative universe, just when you thought the world couldn't get any crazier, along come Romany and Piper with both wit and wisdom - - all is well."

Whew! I thought that A-septic was claiming that the NRL sex scandal was a feminist plot to take over life, the universe and everything. After reading stuff like:

"Girls may play in the open competition until they're 12, I believe, but not after that, both because of the physical danger and because they begin to develop sexually."

Um, someone should tell all our female players and athletes that they should've stopped playing sport when they were 12. Bad for the developing sexuality, apparently. Oh wait, I went back to alt-universe. Here in my universe both men and women play sport, there are even areas where they may compete together like shooting (guns - ever the great equaliser).

And Sancho hates women - no that was alt-universe again, he was being ironic, it is A-septic who hates women. OK I think I have this sorted out again. Man, those space-time warps can really give one a migraine.

So what was the point of this discussion? That A-septic likes humping dogs?

Sorry, confused again.

Beam me up Scotty.

Romany, with pre-natal preparation, TENS, epidurals and Caesareans, not to mention all the rest of the pharmacopoeia and medicalia, birth in a Western context is hardly the big deal it once was. I don't know whether that's the case in China, but I expect they manage it pretty well - after all, they've had lots of practise.

Let's face it, with the current rules, football isn't the test it once was either. Life is becoming ever softer and yet some people seem more interested in looking for ever-smaller peas under ever-taller piles of down, all the while berating those who have to do the looking.

As for the dowager issue, our society and others have traditionally paid the older wife who post-deceased her husband a lot of respect. Having reached menopause, she could often outlive her male contemporaries by decades. She had influence within later generations through her children and grandchildren. I grew up in PNG and saw the respect accorded to the rare old women and the influence they had. I suspect nearly every culture has had something similar going on.

Perhaps one of the problems today is simply too many dowagers?

The Pied Piper:"The insight in both playing footy and giving birth is just the knowing you will generally survive; this is sort of at the lower end of the “wisdom” scale isn’t it?"

No, it's not at all, it's a profound insight, because it gives one the ability to see past the immediate circumstances, no matter how tough they get and to keep going. That sort of insight lets one take on challenges that are genuinely hard, knowing that even failing can only be so bad... If people are always protected, they expect to always be protected and that can get very costly. Sometimes a little suffering is the best teacher.

Fractelle, the no girls after U12 is a rule from the Junior Rugby League. Do you think that teenage girls could or should play football with teenage boys? It'd put a whole new spin on "going into touch"...

Besides the idiocy about childbirth, this struck me:

<< Football is and always was a MALE endevour (sic). >>

Indeed, as were voting, property ownership, university education, management, etc etc etc.

Clearly, it's all an insidious feminist plot!

Fractelle: << ...A-septic likes humping dogs? >>

I wouldn't know about that (although he does seem obsessed by them), but I doubt that he has much sex with women - at least of the unpaid kind - and he doesn't admit to being gay. I suppose there's always those inflatable dolls...

Dear Antispetic,

I agree with you that football was and always has been
a male endeavour - however perhaps I misunderstood
you but aren't you talking about women on the Board
of the NRL? Which I think is a separate issue.
We're not talking about the players - but the Board
that runs the organisation as a business.

Who makes up the Board of any business corporation (which
most large sporting organisations have now become - in order
to make it financial viable) - then surely gender shouldn't
come into the equation - but rather as you agreed - it
should be the choice of people who can look outside
the square and offer a diverse point of view and be able to
identify opportunities to do things differently.

I'm not trying to be contentious here - but as I stated in
my previous post - the NRL's reputation has taken a
beating recently - and perhaps having a diversified
Board may change the way the organisation is perceived
by fans, players and the executives.

The NRL Board should look beyond its circle of friends and
supporters and, as I said appoint directors who can
offer a diverse point of view.

However, it does take a brave Board to look outside the
square - especially in what is - as you pointed out -
a male dominated organisation.

*can you imagine men still argue fear of women is valid!*

Well Whilstler its not unknown for some of you to become
nasty little things, when you scratch, bite and throw
knives :)

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25667548-1242,00.html