The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > General Discussion > Should Criminal Charges Be Laid Over Mr Ward's Death in Custody?

Should Criminal Charges Be Laid Over Mr Ward's Death in Custody?

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. Page 5
  7. 6
  8. 7
  9. 8
  10. All
I was shocked when I heard on the radio that it happened in Australia. I was waiting to find out what country allowed that sort of abuse of human rights to occur and it turned out to be in Australia.

Like Maximillion I also recall it being said that government vehicles were involved. I further recall something said about complaints to the government about their safety and inaction.

Yes I think there should be some sort of liability preferably criminal and preferably manslaughter. I acknowledge the complexity but there must be some way of pinning or apportioning it. At the very least the consequences are so extreme that there is no excuse for the current level of inaction. I have only heard of death on a hot metal surface twice previously. One in an account of the way Christians were disposed of in Rome if the lions didn't finish them off. Another was a torture for spies in China many years ago. In both cases it was intended to be brutal and painful. What a horrible way to go!
Posted by mjpb, Monday, 22 June 2009 9:53:40 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Me too.

I can't see how could be construed as anything but criminal negligence. I am also left wondering how many others have been left to stew in the back of vans - the only difference being it didn't kill them.

And to those questioning whether the men or the company are guilty. The men are definitely guilty. They are guilty even if they were told to do this by their superiors. That just changes the crime to contract killing.

As for the company - far more complex. If they had procedure in place that were actively upheld, then they are completely innocent. If they had procedure in place that were actively ignored for the sake of profit, they are criminally negligent. And then there is a whole grey area in the middle where they may not of been aware of the problem, were aware but hopped to ignore it. The only way to find out is a criminal investigation into the company and its executives, which it what must happen.
Posted by rstuart, Monday, 22 June 2009 10:56:54 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi All,
Whether the drivers are charged with murder or manslaughter of, Mr. Ward needs no debate. They had a “Duty of Care and failed. It would have been hot in the front cabin of the truck; how much hotter was it in the back?
Claiming no choice is not an excuse. They could have insisted a more suitable vehicle be used to transport Mr. Ward and refused unless one was made available. Dismissal threats would provide meat for the media and not good PR for the company.
The company management and board are more culpable for not providing appropriate vehicles for those temperatures.
Where you find the prison service/justice service commercialised, it is not an uncommon complaint. Companies accused of blatant disregard for Social justice. Staff frequently accused of brutality, bullying, and poorly trained.
There are those who argue the prisoner had a choice being drunk and disorderly and or not.
Heavens above! The man was charged with drunken driving and yes, he might have injured someone.
Had it been a Caucasian he might receive a night in the drunk can, fined and let go. Not sent 400km, face prison time, including the trip time. Surely, arrangements could have been made closer to hand.
Excuses, excuses are all I hear from organisations. I do not care whether it is private or government involved, there are no excuses. Call me a “do-gooder” if you like but I believe in a humane justice system.
It has been alleged it was a government vehicle. The question is why was a commercial company using a government vehicle? Hence, it may have not been suitable for the purpose.

Where was the company vehicle, designed and suitable for transporting prisoners?

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE FOR WHAT HAPPENED AND IF IT HAD HAPPENED TO A CAUCASION, THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN A GREATER OUTCRY.

What has the local MP done on behalf of his/her constituent? I assume possibly little, except running for cover. Why are they
elected if not to work on behalf of the constituents?
Regards
Professori_au
Posted by professor-au, Monday, 22 June 2009 10:58:42 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
It beggers imagination that a man detained for drink driving could be treated in this fashion by losing his life, duty of care was criminally neglected.
Where those escorting afraid he would escape by stopping the van and giving him air, many years ago i remember an incident when a prison van ran of the road full of prisoners, there would have been at least 10 inmates may be more, that driver and his partner opened the back door and got all those people out of the van on the side of the road.
Not one inmate attempted to escape.
So regarding Mr Wards treatment, serious questions must be addressed.
Posted by blackwattle, Monday, 22 June 2009 11:13:56 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The point I was attempting to make was that the incident was the culmination of SEVERAL levels of failures, contractual, structural and yes judgemental. Which lead to inhumane treatment. Therefore all participants need to face pay the piper.
That includes the officers involved.
Issues like was there a failure by the company to:

Maintain the vehicle properly
was there a backup plan
Was there clear protocols to address the issues of vehicle or major system failures.
Where was the supervision.

Then there was was the governmental oversight ,sloppy contractual clauses/conditions.

I am uncomfortable with scapegoat-ism i.e. focusing on punishing the guards and that's the end of it.

As stated the root cause was deeper. One can even suspect a culture of disinterest in the individuals as people.

The arguments as “it wouldn't have happened if he hadn't been drunk etc.” are simply dehumanising the individual which leads to a culture of indifference.

I can only commend professor- au for his/her analysis.
Posted by examinator, Monday, 22 June 2009 12:50:14 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The focus on Mr Ward's race does-not help to resolve this issue, they only provoke feelings of 'no, sad things do happen to other Australians, you just won't hear about them on the ABC'. The Royal Commission into Black Deaths in Custody found that indigenous prisoners had a LOWER risk of dying in custody, but few journalists seemed to care. It is about time that many people stopped normalising the experiences of middle-class non-aboriginal Austalians and compared the problems of indigenous Australians to those of a broader cross section of Australian society.
The real issues in this tragic case are the expectations of the contractor, the professionalism of the drivers and the police procedure that required a drink-driver to be driven so far.
Posted by benk, Monday, 22 June 2009 1:20:17 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. Page 5
  7. 6
  8. 7
  9. 8
  10. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy