Iran:
Will we see a secular freedom movement appearing there, a counter-revolution?
Or will they achieve that most ephemeral of balances, between their religion and their membership of the 21st Century?
Perhaps a backlash from the extremists? A crack-down?
Interesting times in Ol’ Persia tonight indeed

I was interested in the news comment saying that there hasn't been a protest as large since the overthrow of the Shah.

Perhaps the re-election of that horrible little man is the begining of another revolt against another rotten government. Even the head Mullah has agreed to a recount of votes and an investigation into the 'election'.

The protests you are witnessing in Tehran are completely manufactured by western intelligence agencies with ready made English signs(for western/ISRAELIE news agencies benefit) .
http://pakalert.wordpress.com/2009/06/16/proof-israeli-effort-to-destabilize-iran-via-twitter/

Late last year,..Congress agreed to a request from President Bush to fund a major escalation of covert operations against Iran,..according to current and former military, intelligence, and congressional sources...

These operations,for which the President sought up to four hundred million dollars,..were described in a Presidential Finding signed by Bush,and are designed to destabilize the country’s religious leadership.
http://notsylvia.wordpress.com/2009/06/16/one-third-of-the-iranian-people/
“The Finding was focussed on undermining Iran’s nuclear ambitions and trying to undermine the government through regime change,”a person familiar with its contents said,and involved“working with opposition groups and passing money.”
Preparing the Battlefield,The New Yorker,July 7,2008
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07/07/080707fa_fact_hersh

The Ukrainian Orange phenomenon was modeled quite explicitly on the example of the Rose Revolution,..which featured a disputed election, massive youth-oriented street protests,and plenty of subsidies from U.S. government agencies.
The‘Color’Revolutions:/Fade to Black,Antiwar,September 29,2006
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=9768

The Pentagon and US intelligence have refined the art of such soft coups to a fine level...RAND planners call it‘swarming,’referring to the swarms of youth,..typically linked by SMS and web blogs,who can be mobilized on command to destabilize a target regime.
Color Revolutions,Geopolitics and the Baku Pipeline",Engdahl,
http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net/Geopolitics___Eurasia/Color_Revolutions/color_revolutions.html

Even before the count began,Mousavi declared himself..“definitely the winner”..based on.“all indications from all over Iran.”..He accused the government of.“manipulating the people’s vote”..to keep Ahmadinejad in power and suggested the reformist camp would stand up to challenge the results.

“It is our duty to defend people’s votes...There is no turning back,”..Mousavi said alleging widespread irregularities.
Iran declares win for Ahmadinejad in disputed vote,Associated Press,June 13,
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle08.asp?xfile=data/middleeast/2009/June/middleeast_June355.xml&section=middleeast
what really happend
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2009/6/16/worldupdates/2009-06-15T194027Z_01_NOOTR_RTRMDNC_0_-403433-1&sec=Worldupdates
http://lataan.blogspot.com/2009/06/irans-post-election-protests-western.html
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2009/061509c.html
http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2009/06/16/the-palestinian-struggle-whats-it-all-about/

OUG, do you have so little respect for the intelligence of the Iranians that you think an American plot could mobilise hundreds of thousands?
Give them a little credit, I feel it's genuine, the regime allowed education and communication, fatal for a totalitarian state.

yes its genuine[max]the rich kids dont like ajimmidad giving the oil wealth to the poor peons[they like all the spoilt rich kids in the world would perfer it was given to them..[like the 400 million busche and co gave them]

if things were as bad as the media makes it appear then why dont the bad guy use the tried and tested teqniques the west uses to shut down activists and protestors..[like corraling them..[like the system did recently..[or by shutting down the phone system like they did in sydney]..or block the web like china.

[the fact info is getting out[unlike info from burma/palistein]proves the media beat up is pure spin..[by the special ops from the mossad]...look at the images..[a car burning and 20 people not thousands]..shakey film of a building,..but not thousands...but believe as you chose..let the media tell you what to think.

try attending a real protest some time and realise this isnt a real protest but simply a media beatup[where was the reporting when the burma junta was genociding priests..[or israel was bombing gaza back to the stone age..[or where is the reporting on 40 million made homeless..this year alone..

aint it neat that pakistan/homeless dont rate a mention..[that palistein homeless dont rate a mention..[that the tamils in camps dont rate a mention..[or even the israelie settlements...see a media beat up when you see it...see israel with 400 nukes hates all goys..[thats the eliphant in the room]..timming is everything

OUG, sorry, all I did was ask for comment on the new situation in Iran, not the problems of the world. I distinctly recall seeing pictures of streets and plazas thronging with the odd few tens of thousands of people with signs saying "where's my vote", in various languages and scripts. A few years back such a display would've been unthinkable, and I was wondering where others thought it might lead, I have no firm idea myself, but am interested.

Dear Max,

Let's not kid ourselves - I don't think that
Iran will ever be a democracy. However, as
Daniel Flitton, Diplomatic Editor of The Age
newspaper in his Editorial piece pointed out,
Ahmadinejad may not be all 'bad news,' for the
West. Let's face it - the mere fact that Iran
is developing nuclear weapons (they say it's for
electricity) - is a cause of concern and a reason
to encourage dialogue. And Ahmadinejad seems
interested in dialogue. He took the unprecedented
step of sending US President Barack Obama a note of
Congratulations on his election.

As Flitton points out, Ahmadinejad, "offers a perfect
foil to the hardline conservatives."

Lets not hold our breath waiting for democracy or even a little freedom for Iran.
Sadly that country is held by those who gain power from a view of a God not people.
My statement is true, it is hurtful to some but if I said it about my country,s God it would not be.
Strange how we allow free speech to be questioned .
My sympathy is are clearly with every person from that and every country who just want more freedom.
It is also with those who would keep all relidgion out of politics

BBC Caught In Mass Public Deception With Iran Propaganda

The BBC has again been caught engaging in mass public deception by using photographs of pro-Ahmadinejad rallies in Iran and claiming they represent anti-government protests in favor of Hossein Mousavi.

An image used by the L.A. Times on the front page of its website Tuesday showed Iranian President Ahmadinejad waving to a crowd of supporters at a public event.

In a story covering the election protests yesterday,..the BBC News website used a closer shot of the same scene,..but with Ahmadinejad cut out of the frame.

The caption under the photograph read,..‘Supporters of Mir Hossein Mousavi again defied a ban on protests’.
http://www.infowars.com/bbc-caught-in-mass-public-deception-with-iran-propaganda/
The BBC photograph is clearly a similar shot of the same pro-Ahmadinejad rally featured in the L.A. Times image, yet the caption erroneously claims it represents anti-Ahmadinejad protesters.

As soon as the truth about the misrepresented images surfaced on the WhatReallyHappened website yesterday,the BBC changed the photo caption on their original article.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/us-planning-velvet-revolution-in-iran.html
http://www.infowars.com/iran-faces-greater-risks-than-it-knows

The closely framed footage was used to imply that hundreds or thousands of Iraqis were involved in a Berlin Wall-style “historic” liberation,..yet when wide angle shots were later published on the Internet,..footage that was never broadcast on live television,..the reality of the..“mass uprising”became clear...The crowd around the statue was sparse and consisted mostly of U.S. troops and journalists.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2838.htm

The BBC later had to admit that only..“dozens”..of Iraqis PAID to participate in toppling the statue...The entire scene was a manufactured farce yet the propaganda technique of blocking wide-angle shots from being broadcast convinced the world that the event represented a triumphant and historic mass popular uprising on behalf of the Iraqi people.

other issues not covered in the news
http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/jewish-chabads-genocidal-morality/
http://uruknet.com/?p=m55240&hd=&size=1&l=e
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/123362.pdf
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2009/06/dodd-giving-fed-more-power-is-like.html

it's women who are driving the protests in Iran not a US conspiracy or the pursuit of an illusionary equal rights 21st Century owned by men, as the substantial number of women protestors in an allegedly hard-line, fundamentalist Islamic patriarchy attests.

men who claim the high moral ground with regard to an ephemeral balance of power, while refusing equal rights to their own women in the form of a women's legislature, do no service to anybody on this Earth.

they are as much a problem as those against whom Iranians are protesting.

Dear foxy,

And Iran is not to be considered a democracy because...?

Because the Ayatollahs rule.
The people get to vote for the executive, but any and all of that bodies decisions must be agreed by the religious authorities.
And it can be removed from power at any time. Also the religious have their own security forces and troops, and are immune to the laws that govern the rest of the nation. Democracy? Not yet, if ever.

I suppose they can be thankful that their ultimate head of state resides in their own country unlike ours. Both though are heads of religious orders and both wield the deciding power, just ask Gough.

In Victoria where I am from the Constitution Act 1975 gives to the Governor the power to dissolve the Legislative Assembly and call an election.

An interesting quirk is that in order to pardon an offender the Queen must be physically present in Victoria.

Legislation requires governor approval.

Under our federal constitution the governor general has the ultimate say over our armed forces.

An Iranian could put a strong case that in law Australian democracy is controlled by the representatives of the head of the Anglican Church who is also the monarch of a foreign power.

One progressive part of the Iranian constitution is the parliamentary representation of religious minorities giving both Jews and Copic Christians members in their parliament. I think we could use a similar mechanism here for indigenous representation.

So I would put the case that our democracies are very similar in principle just poles apart in practice.

Therefore I would think any judgement about Iranian democracy should be made on latter rather than the former.

the primary difference between Australian and Iranian democracies is that Iran is ruled by robust misogynists while the misogynists who deny women a legislature in Australia are doomed by the imminence of an equal rights republic.

Dear foxy,

You wrote;
"Let's not kid ourselves - I don't think that Iran will ever be a democracy."

Perhaps to be a little more precise you might want to add 'again' to your statement.

Iran had a democracy until its very popular president Dr. Mohammed Mossadegh had the temerity to nationalize the oil reserves of the country in 1951. The CIA, under orders from President Eisenhower, proceeded with Operation Ajax which deposed him and gave control of the country to the Shah.

A bit like if the Yanks had become upset at us nationalizing uranium reserves and reacted by kicking out the government and putting Prince Charles in charge. Unfortunately for the Iranians the Shah was pretty nasty.

So yes they have enjoyed democracy in the past.

The interesting problem we have is how to view the referendums after the overthrow of the Shah? According to Wikipedia "Iran officially became an Islamic Republic on 1 April 1979 when Iranians overwhelmingly approved a national referendum to make it so." and "In December 1979, the country approved a theocratic constitution, whereby Khomeini became Supreme Leader of the country.".

If these were properly conducted processes then as supporters of democracy we must view them as valid expressions of the will of the Iranian people.

Do you agree?

prior to the election,
results of which are incomplete,
the men's legislature of the Islamic Republic of Iran,
was comprised of 2.8% women,
(8 women and 286 men).

Australia's men's legislatures are comprised of 26.7% women,
(40 women and 150 men) in the House of Representatives,
and 35.5% women, (27 women and 76 men) in the Senate.

http://www.ipu.org/wmn-e/classif.htm

the sovereign of the Republic of Iran is a man,
those of the Commonwealth of Australia are women.

extracted quote from
http://www.counterpunch.com/roberts06192009.html

....There is a power struggle among the ayatollahs...Many are aligned against Ahmadinejad because he accuses them of corruption,..thus playing to the Iranian countryside where Iranians believe the ayatollahs' lifestyles indicate an excess of power and money...In my opinion,Ahmadinejad's attack on the ayatollahs is opportunistic. However,..it does make it odd for his American detractors to say he is a conservative reactionary lined up with the ayatollahs.

Commentators are "explaining" the Iran elections based on their own illusions, delusions, emotions, and vested interests. Whether or not the poll results predicting Ahmadinejad's win are sound, there is, so far, no evidence beyond surmise that the election was stolen. However, there are credible reports that the CIA has been working for two years to destabilize the Iranian government.

On May 23, 2007, Brian Ross and Richard Esposito reported on ABC News:“The CIA has received secret presidential approval to mount a covert..“black” operation to destabilize the Iranian government, current and former officials in the intelligence community tell ABC News.”

On May 27,2007,..the London Telegraph independently reported:“Mr. Bush has signed an official document endorsing CIA plans for a propaganda and disinformation campaign intended to destabilize,and eventually topple,the theocratic rule of the mullahs.”

A few days previously,the Telegraph reported on May 16, 2007,that Bush administration neocon warmonger John Bolton told the Telegraph that a US military attack on Iran would “be a ‘last option’..after economic sanctions and attempts to foment a popular revolution had failed.”

On June 29, 2008, Seymour Hersh reported in the New Yorker: “Late last year, Congress agreed to a request from President Bush to fund a major escalation of covert operations against Iran,..according to current and former military, intelligence, and congressional sources.

These operations, for which the President sought up to four hundred million dollars, were described in a Presidential Finding signed by Bush,and are designed to destabilize the country’s religious leadership.”

The protests in Tehran no doubt have many sincere participants. The protests also have the hallmarks of the CIA orchestrated protests in Georgia and Ukraine...It requires total blindness not to see this....

It starts when the IMF moves in..to offer a bribe to a tinpot dictator in a third world country...to privatise

He gets 10%..in exchange for taking out an exorbitant loan..for an infrastructure project..that the country can’t afford...When the country inevitably defaults on the loan payments,..the IMF begins to take over..[continued at link]
from
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=2720

On June 13th,..30000..“tweets”..begin to flood Twitter with live updates from Iran,..

Now,YouTube is providing a..“Breaking News”..link at the top of every page linking to the latest footage of the Iranian protests..

Welcome to Destabilization 2.0,..the latest version of a program that the western powers have..been running..for decades in order to overthrow foreign,..democratically elected governments..that don’t yield to the whims of western governments and multinational corporations.

Ironically,..Iran was also the birthplace of the original CIA program for destabilizing a foreign government.:..It’s 1953 and democratically-elected Iranian leader Mohammed Mossadegh..is following through on his election promises to nationalize industry for the Iranian people,..including the oil industry of Iran which was then controlled by the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company.

The CIA is sent into the country to bring an end to Mossadegh’s government...They begin a campaign of terror,staging bombings and attacks on Muslim targets in order to blame them on nationalist,secular Mossadegh.

They foster and fund an anti-Mossadegh campaign amongst the radical Islamist elements in the country...Finally,..they back the revolution that brings their favoured puppet,the Shah,into power...Within months,..their mission had been accomplished:..they had removed a democratically elected leader who threatened to build up an independent,..secular Persian nation and replaced him with a repressive tyrant whose secret police would brutally suppress all opposition.

The campaign was a success and the lead CIA agent wrote an after-action report describing...The pattern was to be repeated time and time again in country after country..(in Guatemala in 1954,in Afghanistan in the 1980s,..in Serbia in the 1990s),..but these operations leave the agency open to exposure.

What was..needed..was a different plan,..one where the western political/financial interests..puppeteering the revolution would be more difficult..to implicate in the overthrow.

Enter Destabilization..1.1...This version of the destabilization program is less messy,.offering plausible deniability..for the western powers/overthrowing a foreign government's...