The End of the line (TEL) Doco
“The basic problem, is the huge over-capacity of the modern fishing industry. “
There are too many boats chasing too few fish: "The global fishing capacity could catch the world catch four times over. The world's long-lining industry sets 1.4 billion hooks every year. These are estimated to be set on enough line to encircle the entire globe more than 550 times.
The mouth of the largest trawling net is big enough to accommodate 13 747 jets.
claims the world's oceans are facing catastrophe
In some countries there are quotas limiting the amount of each species a vessel can land. But, crucially, there are no discards - the practice of throwing tonnes of dead fish back into the water, which has so blighted the EU version of this”
“Fish exporter Jan Tomensen said “there is general agreement in Iceland among policy makers about their conservation measures.”
We hear that 90% of the fish in the EC is over-fished and 30% is in very bad shape, Waitrose ( major UK retailer) chief buyer of fish, Quentin Clark, says: "There are some shocking, absolutely shocking, statistics out about how much fish is caught illegally around the world - it is a global problem.
"And that is why it is so important that people have full confidence in their retailer - or wherever else they buy their fish - that they know where that fish is coming from."
Watching The End of the Line, it is clear that consumer power may be central to hopes of stopping the decline in global fish stocks. We are all being encouraged to ask: "Where is this fish from, and is that source sustainable?"
Source BBC News Science

its a matter of economincs...once the catch falls off the industry dies...its basic stuff..LOOK AT WHALING..in time it died..[and whales are slower breeding than the orange ruffy]

we faced this fish shortage many times..[the first time was in sydney cove..[as fishing out the foodstuff is the first step of colonisers,..ie get rid of food..and the natives then are willing to work for food..[or starve to death]..

the fish catch fell to nothing shortly after the euro's arrived,on thses shores..[but in timne came back]

soon there was enough fish..lol..again..[and we sent ever bigger fishing boats in..[till govt bought back a few licences..[and this money was pooled together to go off shore..[to fish-out the fish on other foreign shore's...[like the somalie fishermen..[now become pirates]..lest we forget

soon even so..in the end even..the big-nets come home with nothing...but the few fish left..will breed up yet again..[in time] the secret is not to give the fisher-folks the cash..to do it all over..yet again

also on the other things we need not ignore is the subsidies/govt gives to the same selfish fishers..of govt subsidy...[like those curently fishing for the carbon tax..[purely to finance the retool up big buisness again overseas ]

we are good at repeating the mistakes of the past..[we have the environment minester even..today talking about green collar/jobs..[that will no doudt be bought with this new carbon credit..[and the water licence buyback[to re-tool up again off-shore]

and no doudt..the buy back of fishing licence's.. as well as the other plentyfull govt/cash grr-rants..govt/gives to those expurt's at exploiting any resource into extinction..thanks to govt largess..ie/licence/subsidy or grant..carbon tax egsemtion/creddit/guarentee..

[all paid for by those mugs paying income-tax..lol..on wages..and of course the natives blindly accepting cash gifts from multinaionals seeking only to reap and plunder[harvest]..where they did not sow

Haven't seen the doco, but have been aware of the problem for some time, it was the Japs strip-mining the oceans that got me on the case.
The predatory behaviour of the worlds fishing fleets is what has caused the piracy problem off Sudan, once the Gov' there collapsed, the big boats moved in and stripped the environment clean, and the local fishermen became pirates to survive.
Given all the chemicals, millions of tons daily, which are pouring into the ocean, and the way stocks are being ruined, it won't be too long before the entire oceanic eco-system literally disappears, forever.
The worst thing about it is that it won't be stopped, even if we could it won't be, we all know this. The same with de-forestation, air pollution etc, it's already too late.

After srawling several websites - the
best suggestion that I read was summed up in
the following way:

"Fishing is a global industry, e.g. fish
caught in the Meditteranean may end up on the
table in a restaurant in Japan. If one nation
offers high prices for a certain kind of fish -
it's a safe bet that hundreds of fishermen
will compete to meet that demand."

Max is right - controlling the industry is
going to be difficult, or perhaps, as he says -
possibly too late. But what choice have we got?

Government regulation and enforcement may be
the only way to keep the industry from spiralling
out of control.

Logically thinking, restraint would benefit everyone.

1) Limiting fishing fleets would put less stress on
the environment.

2) Fish stocks would have the opportunity to reach
a sustainable population.

3) Fishermen would still be able to make a living
harvesting fish.

But getting countries like Japan and others to agree
to these restraints is going to be the key to
trying to solve this problem.

Unless something is done globally - the problem won't
go away, it will only get worse.

mankind is the most arrogant creature god ever created[this chemiclly motivated ape actually thinks it runs its life[it alone thinks it is created in gods image]...it alone believes it can change anything[its a universal joke]it alone of all gods creation thinks it is the quantum...it alone thinks it can affect nature..or move the will of god...it has these faulse god heads of capitalism,or finance or the freemarket[that are universal'isms.]god made plenty,mankind alone frets about god giving them their next meal...it is mankind who creates temporary shortages...destroying mountains of food..to create an artificial shortage..so buisness can pretend there is limited supply..so buSINness can do its buisness as usual...and create vast mountains of paper[called money]they then tax to create ever more shortage[the one shortage mankingd never has is a shortage of money[the money changers can print it off like news paper,but then need to burn it to retain an artificial scarcity[when it gets banked the physical money gets destroyed by those who printed it by whim[them the bank simply closes shop and the apes begin from scratch,working yet again to create more of it[never waking up that it is things that have value not paper]everything cost money[fishing out the last fish costys the most mankind will never have enough to catch the lasst one[one fish breed's millions,..go away for one year in 7 and the wealth returns[but even those apes calling themselves god own dont know the true intended meaning of the sabbath year let alone the jubelee,if yesterday taught any of us anything ,know our labours mean nothing especially in this digetal age[one minute its here[next its gone]and by whim it returns or stays away..[essentiually there is nothing we could do about it..everybody used to write like this[then a few opened up]what are the fish in the sea compared to a carbon tax on all we buy and sell

This seems to me to be a classic case of the "tragedy of the commons".

Foxy and others
Absolutely

Consider this perspective.
If we restricted the industry i.e. limit the numbers, the long-line and humongous nets the price of the fish would go up; fishermen would still make a living; more stocks because we'd take less.
We in the spoilt west would need to either catch our own or alter our diets;less obesity etc. Consider the mentioned thousands of tons of dead fish being discarded both at the trawler and in wastage for efficiency and at the retail and consumer end.

Now if we did this with everything more employment elsewhere making etc things that are really NEEDED. 3rd world people wouldn't need to rape the environment to compete. Wouldn't that be good

Isn't that the principal behind supply and demand? Gigantic isn't always best best. What's wrong with small/medium labour intensive sized businesses all providing a living + a little more?

Idealistic, perhaps but sooner or later we'll have to do it. Current economic practice favouring greed, excess, and most iniquitous BIG is merely delaying the inevitable reckoning time.

I believe in Capitalism it's the excesses and sizes that are the problems

Nice idea, but what do you think your chances are of convincing the entire world?
I wish you luck, especially with the criminal fleets that would immediately appear. "Black market" sound familiar?

Dear examinator,

John Rawls formulated principles of sustainable development.

1) A Principle of equal basic rights.
2) A principle about social and economic inequalities.

He felt that such inequalities should be allowed only
if they serve to benefit those who are worst off in society,
and that there should be equality of opportunity.

In other words if we had to choose a society -
the kind that most of us would choose - would
be one that was 'maximally fair.'

And that this would be delivered for future
and all subsequent generations.

Sounds like Utopia - doesn't it?

If only this was possible. The problem with humanity
has been - greed. We all know what should be done -
yet it rarely is. Other issues seem to get in the way.
I too believe in capitalism - but as you suggest - we
need to look at other ways of doing things, and smaller
is definitely better.

We can no longer take our world for granted. We need
to divert our energy and resources towards
the real problems that face us, because as your
thread title suggests - ignoring the problems won't
make them go away.

Max,
I totally agree with you. Those that suggest 'WE'(as in the whole world) get together to restrict fishing are dreaming. We can't even get a handful to agree to eliminate nukes let alone other things.

While there is economic demand people will fish. After a long search, I finally found a restruant that had 'Patagonian Toothfish' on the menu. Because of the horrid conditions and the trouble they go to catch these fish, I thought it must be something very special. I was dismayed to find it was very ordinary. so all I can say is the yanks and the japs must be easily satisfied to pay big money for this fish. I would not rate it very high at all. My local fish n chip shop has better.

Maybe all we can do is protect and regulate our own fishing grounds so we can at least get some good fish in future.

Oh, if you saw where and how fish farms operate in Asia you would not touch those imports.

Dear examinator,

Before I leave this thread of yours I wanted
to digress for a moment, I hope that you'll
allow it...

There's a children's book called,
"Baby Whale's Journey," by Jonathan London.
Illustrated by Jon Van Zyle.

I often use it in my "Storytime Sessions,"
with pre-schoolers. The illustrations are
wonderful and Jonathan London's simple,
poetic text captures the tenderness and drama
in the life of the endangered sperm whale.

Whalers target the great whales. Their numbers
are being depleted. Hundreds of dolphins and
porpoises still drown in fishing nets.

The International Whaling Commission which has
now become a conservation commission makes
recommendations on whaling limits. Whaling
margins over resources endanger whales.

It would be a great loss - if global pressure was
not heeded by countries like Japan - and these
magnificent creatures were to disappear from
our oceans.

Take care.

Foxy,
What about the poor little krill? Does not anyone care about the krill? They have a right to life just as much as the whales.

The whales are hellbent on exterminating krill and every whale the whalers get saves millions of krill. Just because the whales are big does not mean they should get preference to life. Krill die a horrible death, slowly absorbed by gastric juices.

The underdog here is the krill and I am on their side.

Dear Banjo,

Thank You so much for jumping into this
discussion - it makes it so much
more interesting - having someone else
contributing as well. I was beginning to
feel that I was talking to myself here.

You're right to point out the importance of
krill.

As several websites have confirmed:

"Antarctic wildlife including Blue Whales,
Crabeater and leopard seals, as well as
seabirds such as Emperor, rockhopper and
Adelie penguin and three species
of albatross are all primarily krill feeders."

These creatures are negatively impacted by
increased krill fishing in the Antarctic,
and ensuring a consistent food source is
crucial to their long term survival.

Part of the problem is that krill are sought
commercially for fish meal and Omega3 fish oil.

Salmon farmers prefer using krill as they impart
their pink colour to the muscle of the fish,
making them attractive to the buying public.

Krill has also become popular in the medical
community to aid post surgical healing and
decrease cholestrol levels.

Its vitally important in regulating where the
fisheries occur to minimize their impact on
marine mammals. Setting catch limits has to also
happen that will ensure enough krill is
available in each area where fisheries operate,
especially in the critical marine mammal and
seabird forging and breeding areas.

One of the biggest problems, I think is persuading
countries like Japan to comply with these conditions.

Once again - Thanks for raising this topic - I
actually learned a lot about krill from the various
websites - that I didn't know previously.

Cheers.

Foxy,
Must admit that the krill post was more in jest than anything. So many talk about the whales and recently I saw an article about some people going off about indiginous people on a far northern hemisphere island herding and killing pilot whales, like they have done for thousands of years. I can't recall (my memory loss) the place name but the whales made up much of their diet and I thought each to his own, that is their way of life.

So I thought to raise the matter of krill, even though I know little about them. Except that whales consume vast quanties and they are small prawn like crustations that must be plentifull.

I did not know that penguins and other seabirds also ate them either or in fact what the krill themselves live on. Or that there was an industry harvesting them.

So thanks for the info, we now know a little more. We do learn stuff on OLO.

Dear Banjo,

I'm absolutely thrilled that you say
you learned something from me!

Thrilled, because you're one poster
whose opinions I value greatly - so
Thanks!

You've made my day!