Media practitioners, Australian and global, have again proved themselves to be unreliable stirrers.

Attacks on Indian students are to be deplored, as are attacks on anyone; but they do not warrant the screaming headlines: “Australia a Racist Country”.

There are around 80,000 Indian students living in Australia, and a small handful of them have been attacked. And, it is said, attacked by people described as ‘islanders’: not your typical white, Anglo-Australians, who, despite the blather about multiculturalism, are still held up to the world as the chief ‘racists’ in the country.

The ragtag minority of Indian students who demonstrated in Melbourne clearly overlooked the institutionalised discrimination against people of different castes in their own country where Indian students are bashed regularly on the Delhi metro, according to Indian national, Akash Arora writing in The Age today. These incidents are not even reported.

“Don't believe the media hype: racism is often a two-way street”, was the heading of his article.

Good advice.

As usual, Leigh uncovers the all important voice of reason and sanity.

Agree fully Leigh,

Another excuse for proclaiming a mythical social divide

The whole charade is pure hysteria and something else for the institutional guilt peddlers (of the left and anarchistic styles) to pretend to beat us all with.

With the Indian Caste system still alive and well and practiced throughout the country, there is little India could ever be taught by Australia about any "ism".

Ok I admit it I confused, what is it that is actually the topic here.
a. The media went over the top,
b. because the Indian students are to blame for blowing up the incidents (their being attacked)in Melb out of proportion.
c. That this is what you get with having mixed races (and not insisting on assimilation?).
Or
d. it was probably them other foreigners anyway.

Leigh since it's your post can you please clarify ?
thanks examinator.ant

Have the Police commented on the statistics regarding disproportionate bashings on Indian students?.

I'm kinda asking if the students have a valid complaint...

Dear Leigh,

I didn't know too much about Indian Student bashings
until I began to scrawl the subject on the web, and read
the newspaper editorials online. They're actually
quite horrific, especially the case of that student
returning home to Werribee - where 16 year olds bashed
him senseless on the train - and no-one, I repeat -
no-one, came to his aid.

And you guys are complaining about a newspaper headline
calling the act 'racist,' because of the caste system
in India? This incident took place here - not in
India - and why aren't any of you outraged by it, instead
of being outraged by the newspaper headline?

Would you have been more outraged if the student would
have been a Brit - studying here in Australia?

Or even if the student would have been an Aussie?

I guess hidden anti-migrant prejudices aren't voiced in
public until they are highlighted by some well-publicized
event - like this bashing.

I guess this just proves that
some Australians still believe that 'a unique
Australian society and identity emerged with Federation...
and this identity should be the basis of immigrant
assimilation...'

And you question the fact of the 'racist,' label.

The profound absurdity of this thread is still sinking in.

There is no other way to interpret Leigh's argument than "foreigners shouldn't complain about being bashed in Australia, because they might have also been bashed in their own country.

Now I can't wait for the next time women march against domestic violence. I'm dying to hear Leigh opine that they should shut up because about it because they could just as easily have been assaulted outside their house.

Yep, two wrongs always make a right.

Leigh wrote: "And, it is said, attacked by people described as ‘islanders’: not your typical white, Anglo-Australians, who, despite the blather about multiculturalism, are still held up to the world as the chief ‘racists’ in the country."

Indeed. As this article shows, the attackers in at least one of these cases were of non-European origin:

http://ozconservative.blogspot.com/2009/05/just-who-attacked-indian-student.html

Foxy wrote: "Or even if the student would have been an Aussie?"

Australians of European descent are constanly assaulted by non-Europeans. But it just isn't deemed newsworthy.

"I guess this just proves that
some Australians still believe that 'a unique
Australian society and identity emerged with Federation...
and this identity should be the basis of immigrant
assimilation...'"

And what, exactly, is wrong with that?

No assimilation, no nation.

Most violent thugs have never had a spanking in their life hence they turn out violent. They laugh at the judges knowing that rarely is justice served in this nation. This is more fruit from our secular engineers.

"I didn't know too much about Indian Student bashings
until I began to scrawl the subject on the web, and read
the newspaper editorials online. They're actually
quite horrific, especially the case of that student
returning home to Werribee - where 16 year olds bashed
him senseless on the train - and no-one, I repeat -
no-one, came to his aid."

Foxy,

I grew up in the northern suburbs of Melbourne and I don't know anyone who would come to the aid of anyone - of any skin colour or racial type - who was getting bashed. Most people just cower away behind their newspapers and pretend it's not happening. I honestly don't think racism's the problem here - just apathy.

Did you see the Lateline episode a week or so ago where a Melbourne writer won an award for writing a book about spanking kids? He related an incident on the train where a group of louts in a packed train were generally mouthing obscenities and an older ethnic woman was feeling very uncomfortable. When he went up to them and asked them to tone it down, the abuse just escalated. He said that in hindsight it was the worst thing he could have done. I had similar experiences at school and I'm white. Therein lies the problem. By trying to intervene the problem just gets worse because thugs and louts just love to be thugs and louts. Hence, no one wants to get involved until it becomes sheer apathy

Dear Rob,

What kind of an answer is apathy?

Are we supposed to do nothing then?

I can't remember who said it but it goes
something like this, "Bad things happen when
good people do nothing," or words to that effect.
But you get the message.

And, as Solzhenitsyn said, "Atrocities will exist
for as long as we allow them!"

I'd frankly rather get bashed - yet have a clear
conscience, than at least I tried to do something!

I remember being on a train going to the city
to work - with some very disgustingly behaved
aggressive, loud-mouthed -school aged boys
(from a priavte school) that
began asserting themselves on an elderly pensioner.
When the train stopped at the next station - I kicked
the leader's (of the group) school bags from the train
onto the station platform. The kid had to jump off
the train and go pick his bags up.

One of his friends asked me, "Why did you do that?"
I told him to shut up and sit down or he'd be next.
There wasn't a sound out of them for the rest of
the remaining trip. The pensioner thanked me on her
way out.

I'd do it again!

Foxy,

I'm not sure if its apathy or fear that keeps people from intervening.

You were brave doing what you did but if the insulters were a group of burly thugs you may not have acted so decisively.

Incidentally I am against immigration - at least too much of it - but I am not against immigrants no matter from whence they hale. I suggest this is the case for the majority of people who are concerned about population growth in this country. They like most Australians, I would think are not racists.

Dear Kulu,

Then what's the answer?

Are we to let thugs take over?

Or do we carry baseball bats with us wherever we go?

It would seem that we should do something to
get our message across that this sort of
behaviour won't be tolerated in this country -
from anyone. Other wise we deserve the labels
we're given. What would you like this country
to be called - a nation of 'racists,' or a
nation of 'cowards?'

I'd prefer neither myself. But then I can't just
sit back and do nothing.

Foxy,
While it was brave of you to take that action, it could have ended quite badly. Just this week a young fellow was murdered by a group after he interviened when they were bashing an individual.

I do not know what the answer is, but in many cases if you do not have the resourses to command compliance then it is best you do not interviene. Some thugs have absolutely no respect for anyone or anything, except superior force.

As for the Indian students demo. The cry of 'racism' has long been a great attention getter. It has been used many times on OLO to put an opponant on the defensive and to stop valid argument. Thankfully its influence is waning, like the boy who cried 'wolf' to often.

One must ask what is the basis of the students claim of racism.

Is it only Indians that are being bashed and/or is the bashings carried out by certain ethnic groups? It appears that the police do not think the bashings are motivated by racism. But bear in mind that the Vic police seem reluctant to mention the ethnicity of any suspected criminal.

Recantly there was a ctc video released of a person getting bashed in an underpass at a melbourne railway, by two black youths. It would be stupid to claim it was a racist attack. Although it may well be.

Until such time as it can be shown that there is genuine basis for the students claims, then the cry of racism should be treated cautiously.

>>I can't remember who said it but it goes
something like this, "Bad things happen when
good people do nothing," or words to that effect.
But you get the message.<<

Foxy,

I understand the message, and it is true so long as you have the power to achieve it, but I bet the person who coined it was a long way from a worst-case situation at the time.

I've done my good deed too. I stood up to an overly aggressive bus driver who took off quickly from my bus stop and did a fast 90 degree turn in the one motion (so that he could beat the traffic) and threw people around in the aisle who hadn't a chance to find a seat. When he responded with the "don't talk to me like that on MY bus" card, I reported him.

kulu, I agree that fear and apathy are both contributors to the problem: fear paralyses and societal apathy is the result.

Thanks, Col. You more than make up for the stupid comments of Sancho, Foxy,and examinator.

Yes, Stg. Statistics come a poor second to hysteria. As I said, a very few unfortunate Indian students out of 80,000 are assaulted by 'islanders', and ratbags like Sancho, examinator and Foxy start flinging rubish like 'racist' and Ku Kux Klan around.

If these clowns hate their country so much that they jump on every chance to put it down, they are very sick people indeed. They don't even want to know that rational Indians living in Australia have come to the defence of our country by denying any 'racism' against them or their countrymen.

There is a growing fifth column in Australia which is certainly more dangerous and despicable than the Indian students who these creeps are using to white-ant our society while pretending to be good and compassionate

Sancho “The profound absurdity of this thread is still sinking in.”

That is because the profoundly stupid and myopic find it more difficult to comprehend the nuances of the thread.

StG “Have the Police commented on the statistics regarding disproportionate bashings on Indian students?.

I'm kinda asking if the students have a valid complaint...”

According to Chief Commissioner of Police, the attacks are “opportunistic” and not “racially” motivated.

Of course if we are talking about violent attacks, we might consider the attacks on Indian students in the light of the attack on Luke Mitchell and the asian perpetrators, two of whom fled to Thailand.

It seems to me pure and dumb hysteria for anyone to claim an opportunistic attack on an Indian as “racist” –

Whilst seemingly ignoring the “racist” aspects in the murder of Luke Mitchell.

Or maybe some believe “Racism” is something limited to “Whites” -

In which case, I suggest we all cast our minds back to the 1970s when thousands of Asians were being dispossessed and forced into exile from newly independent African states and the perilous situation which hovers over the government of Fiji today.

And if that is not enough… just cast your mind (tough for some, those "hysterics" who seem to be lacking a full pack of cards) back further and check how many died during the partition of India in 1947

where according to Wikipedia…”The partition displaced up to 12.5 million people in the former British Indian Empire with estimates of loss of life varying from several hundred thousand to a million”.

Indian against Indian

Or the occassional mass murders by one group or another

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_violence_in_India

And now we hear a hue and cry over an opportunistic and random attack …

Sounds like hysteria …looks like hysteria and it is just hysteria

Leigh.. I wrote the above an hour or so ago but I got caught with one of OLO’s “Server Error” messages and a meeting.... thanks for your later comment…
From which the we both seem to be quoting from the “book of reason”, to counter the ravings of hysteria.

Col:”It seems to me pure and dumb hysteria for anyone to claim an opportunistic attack on an Indian as “racist””

Horrible situation and still I can’t help smiling; my experience with Islanders is any opportunity to attack needs no motivation. They are one of the most un-racist races on earth in this regard. If there is no one around from another race they will beat the crap out of each other.

On another tangent, sorry but can’t stop. I just read about all the little British boys Australia imported in the 1940’s to boost the white immigrant numbers then proceeded to treat them quite badly in institutions. Made me think that really those White Aussies would be quite resentful of white Australia in general and where do they put that?

Foxy: “Or do we carry baseball bats with us wherever we go?

Cricket wicket with nails poking out all over it… This is what I used to carry when I was a young mum and walked my children and the neighbors children to school through a state housing suburb.

Was a great deterrent for all the stray dogs and random islanders.

Not to say some weren’t lovely and friendly; they would get a scratch behind the ears.

Leigh
"Attacks on Indian students are to be deplored, as are attacks on anyone"
According to Police " Indians make up 30 percent of robbery victims in Melbourne's western suburbs" but they are less than 1% of the population in this area.
Do not you see that the attacks against indians are not "as are attacks on anyone" but 30 times higher, than the attacks on every one else?
70 attacks in one year on Indian students. I gree with Indian High Commissioner (ambassador) to Australia Sujatha Singh that ""There is a racist element to some of the attacks but many of the attacks are opportunistic,"
Australian government MUST protect from any kind of attacks and discrimination, all people living in Australia, including Indian students.
It is not only the billion of dolars we take from students but our obligasion to respect and protect basic human rights.

Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Jewely “my experience with Islanders is any opportunity to attack needs no motivation. They are one of the most un-racist races on earth in this regard. If there is no one around from another race they will beat the crap out of each other.”

That is very interesting but I am none the wiser to who you refer…

Islanders?

Channel islanders - the populations of Guernsey, Jersey, Sark and Alderney

The Hebrides – well they are Scottish (so they say)

The British Isles… the English, Scottish Welsh and Irish

The Maldives

Torres Strait Islanders (I understand there are some 'intolerances' between them and mainland kooris)

The Solomon Islands

The Philippines (now this old fella is much appreciating one of the lovelies from there and she me, too... )

Japanese islands.. they were very xenophobic, especially prior to the American occupation following WWII

Fijian islands (now they have had some ethnic tensions there which have been boiling along for the past 20 years)

The numbers of “islands” dotted around the earth is quite extensive

But you go on and have your rant and leave thinking people the challenge of determining exactly what you mean… we could even make a board game out of it….

Spot the island… the winner is the one who can denigrate the inhabitants the most

So Jewely… since you are so good at handing it out… now is the time to ask..

what is your ancestral ethnicity?…

Do tell, then we can all slag off your origins and ancestry.

Col:”That is very interesting but I am none the wiser to who you refer…”

You are being nasty again Col. Were the ones in Sydney from Jersey or the Maldives? The ones I come across were Samoan (not the American side who I was told are uppity), Tongan and Raratongan mostly with the odd Numean thrown in but I must say I liked the Numeans (my spell checker has no idea who I am talking about so wont fix it).

“So Jewely… since you are so good at handing it out… now is the time to ask..
What is your ancestral ethnicity?… Do tell, then we can all slag off your origins and ancestry.”

I wasn’t slagging them off, I lived this Col, this is personal experience with the races in that particular neighbourhood. But in NZ you can “identify” with a culture and you are one if accepted. I have been part of a Samoan Family, Maori Family, Suadi Family, Jordainian Family, Italian Family, English Family. Friends from everywhere and every religion and certainly just about fostered most races on earth and every one got the same cuddles no matter what the race.

My Granddad was Scottish. If you go further back, mum likes the whole genealogy thing, I am a mess of cultures from Europe with some Jewish thrown in (well whatever race that is).

What about that whole DNA thing and the seven daughters of Eve and the Scientific Adam? We all go back to one man don’t we?

You're right Col. There is great nuance to this thread. Never has endorsing violence against der untermenschen been so subtle.

Hey, Leigh. Where did I indicate that I hate my country? Are you sure you don't mean that I hate racists wrapping themselves in the flag of my country?

Roll up, roll up! See the amazing Leigh conjure arguments out of thin air to justify his piteous fear of the unfamiliar!

"You are being nasty again Col." (Jewely).

You're wrong. TB is always like that.
________________________

I would help. I have helped. Remember when train doors were left open??!
Two greater spotted foulmouths were harassing a disabled man. I didn't even turn to them. I told them I would throw them through the open doors if they didn't stop. They stopped.

A young boy was being kicked in the head by a group of youths who had cornered him in a lane. My colleagues warned me not to intervene. They were killing that kid. Myself and another woman took them on. I knew if I backed away from the youth that came right up to me, then he would see fear, and act on it. So I stood my ground, as did the other woman. The attacked boy fled, then they did when they heard the sirens.

I was prepared to give evidence; the other lady would not. It never went to Court.

But I have had to have a Court officer with me on one occasion because of threats. I remember he accompanied me to the toilets, and stood guard outside the door. The person concerned had a mental health problem.

I am now a silent voter with unlisted numbers!

Today IS different, and far more dangerous. But it would change nothing. I WILL NOT stand by and watch a defenceless person attacked. It will not happen, no matter what the cost.
_________________________

The attack WAS racist. The nonintervention was in my view, the laissez faire attitude prevalent today.

There is a certain irony in this. i believe that nonintervention is sending a clear message that this behaviour carries no penalty. That;-and programmes like Underbelly, that have made celebrities out of some of the worst maggots in our society.

“Hey, Leigh. Where did I indicate that I hate my country? Are you sure you don't mean that I hate racists wrapping themselves in the flag of my country?”

For the first part, Sancho, in all of your posts where the subject gives you an opening. For the second part of your question: I think you probably hate everyone, including yourself. Your habit of calling people with different views ‘racists’ certainly comes under hate.

I don’t hate anyone, including you. I have nothing against Indians, Indian students, Indian taxi drivers (who probably aspire to become Australia citizens when they have been here long enough) or any other Indians, including the Indian doctor who mis-diagnosed a medical problem I have.

You are probably a well-meaning person; but, you are certainly a misguided and naïve one.

ASymeonakis,

Don’t address your comments to me. The last time I responded to you, you got me suspended for saying what needed to be said.

I’m not going to risk that again

I've got a young nephew who was badly
attacked by 8 thugs on his way home from school,
when my nephew came to the defence of a young
girl the thugs were harrassing. The thugs beat
him senseless - and my nephew ended up in
hospital. There were people around at the time
of the beating - but no one came to my nephew's
aid.

Today, my nephew wears a steel plate in his head,
and has 'incoherent moments.' He will never be
the same again.

I would never stand by and let someone be
attacked, and not do anything about it.

But, that's not the issue here is it?

Leigh, raised the issue of 'racism,' with
the Indian students and what he called -
the 'Press Frenzy.' Well, newspaper headlines
are not often known for their wisdom - but they
certainly attract our attention - true judgement
is only developed by exposure to all sorts of facts,
or in the case of this Forum - to all sorts of
opinions (even ones we don't agree with Leigh).

I was hoping that you would raise the bar in
this discussion - minus any personal descriptors
like calling people's opinions - 'stupid,' et
cetera, or infering that they hate their country?
'What the?'

Let's try to keep our posts on a higher plain -
after all you're old enough to know better -
so set an example - it's your thread after all.

Let's try to find a solution to this perception -
that we're regarded as a 'racist,' country.
What are we going to do to change that image?
Or better still - realistically, what can we do?

Because no matter how we deny the fact - the
perception is out there that, that's how we
appear to be to others - including our own
newspapers.

This matter has to my mind, been, in some ways, caused by the change in the community in the present attitude, to the fear of intervening in any violence -physical or verbal.My generation of Australian young males was one where to those of us who were capable and confident, it was a duty to act in defense of those less capable of resisting an unprovoked attack.The thug of whatever nationality is most likely in company of his cowardly mates, and when confronted by an obviously confident defender is more likely to take to his heels with his pack instead of staying to fight.I would like to see more young lads trained in boxing as I was.The fact that the training was accompanied by the imbuing in the young man of a code of using his ability, only in defense of himself and his ideals.Those old blokes like me will remember there were those quiet fellows who we knew could "handle themselves in a 'blue'" and would not stand back and hesitate to confront aggressors.
There have always been a few mongrels in any community, but the knowledge that they are not going to be stopped from getting away with their attacks, seems to have emboldened them nowadays.

Jewely “Col:”That is very interesting but I am none the wiser to who you refer…”

You are being nasty again Col.”

I fail to see the “nastiness” in my comment… maybe you could explain how by me observing how your statement lacked pertinent definition is being “nasty”… unless you are going to suggest, that by highlighting your ignorance, I am being nasty… but that ignorance was already manifest before I wrote anything.

Maybe you just like the word… the sign of an underlying a “nastiness” fetish..

Like Ginx who thinks there is something “Clever’ in referring to me as “TB”.. a really obtuse and pointless comment, bereft of meaning to anyone but his/her self…

“I am a mess of cultures from Europe with some Jewish thrown in (well whatever race that is).”

We could well agree on the "Mess" bit at least

Back to the top “my experience with Islanders is any opportunity to attack needs no motivation”

So you need no motivation to attack islanders…

That might explain

“I have been part of a Samoan Family, Maori Family, Suadi Family, Jordainian Family, Italian Family, English Family.”

Does that mean you were progressively kicked out by them (an understandable circumstance following your attacks)?

Ah Ginx.. so you claim to be the new Mother Theresa (or maybe St Christopher) of the hard pressed traveler.. yet can present no evidentiary justification for your self-congratulatory proclamations …


YAWN ..... Well good for you…

I will wait for your listing in the new years honours before I applaud.

Yay Graham!

But anyway...Col you aren’t making any sense, those particular islanders (although I am the only one required to define the word) used to attack, bully and stand over children on their way to primary school, I was defending children. I don’t regret it and I would do it again. The race didn’t matter but it was Sa’s mostly.

“We could well agree on the "Mess" bit at least”

See that’s nasty. You want me to explain why you are nasty or my use of that word? It was just the easiest one to spell although I could probably come up with some flasher ones if ya want. I’d rather know why you bother with all the insults and what is to be gained from them. Oh actually I insulted you in that other thread so maybe it was pay back.

I don’t know what TB means.

But back to the topic; Islanders (which are normally what I am used to Samoans being called although I don’t know if DNA testing has been done in this matter) are in general big boys (oh god were the attackers male?).

Indian boys (males again I am guessing in this case?) are smaller in stature usually. This may go back to Fractelle’s theory on bullying having more to do with most meanness than what race/gender/etc the perpetrator or victim.

Or the Indian boys were stepping on another’s turf to sell drugs. Has any of it been made clear? This could have been a retailer’s conference. Could have been Bloods and Crypts; good old fashioned red vs blue in action again. One of their little brothers might have bitten the other one at nursery school.

I think you already pointed out there was no proof of this being a racially motivated attack? And of course your media made it Racial – they always do if it isn’t actually a white Aussie doing the attacking.

See the drunk Tongan get beaten up by Aussie cops?

You misunderstand, Leigh. I admire that you're OLO's only open and enthusiastic racist. I especially appreciate that you dress your race-hate in peripheral arguments so shallow and transparent that they can only be back-handed jibes at the traitors who've allowed this proud white man's nation to be overrun with those confusing, suspect brown people - even the ones who pretend not to be Muslim

And you don't hate an Indian doctor for misdiagnosing you? How tolerant. How lovely. But why did you mentioned it all, unless you mean that he misdiagnosed you on purpose because he's Indian? Or do you mean you forgive him in spite of his crime of being Indian? No doubt he caused your illness in the first place, too. Ooh, those foreigners are capable of anything, aren't they?

Please tell us how much you love your country, because day in, day out, all you do is spit venom at people who don't agree with you, which is the majority of Australians. So what you really mean is that you love the few members of your race who share your fear of the unfamiliar and happen to live in Australia. A bit of a weak claim to patriotism, no?

But since a capacity for self-serving patriotic masturbation is so important to you, I challenge you to go through my post history and find a single instance which even resembles an anti-Australian sentiment. Even if you can misrepresent me sufficiently to meet the challenge, I still won't hate your kind just because a white doctor once misdiagnosed me.

See, I AM a good person.

Hey, go easy on Indian quacks, I went in to see one about a fall, and he spotted two malignant skin-cancers I hadn't thought serious, pus found other early ones, I reckon I probably owe him my life.
As for all the bashings, bah, it's a media beat-up, there's bashings every day across Oz, yet the media are just picking up on those involving Indians, and exaggerating the circumstances.
Next month it'll be something else, anything for a headline.

Andrew Bolt has a new column addressing this "Australia is racist" media beat-up. Read it here: http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25578055-5000117,00.html

Bolt makes some very important points:

"IF we weren't so scared of seeming racist, we wouldn't now seem so, er, racist that even India is giving us lectures.

Amazing, that. India, which perfected the caste system and is plagued by Hindu-Muslim bloodfests, is telling us we're too prejudiced?

But we have only our own stupidity and grovelling self-hatred to blame.

After all, which nation has spent so much apologetic cash and sweat to persuade the world we are vomiting with racism, and which has been, on the other hand, too militantly anti-racist to point out who is actually bashing many of these Indian students?"

And, no, these attacks aren't being committed by European Australians.

Crikey. I think the most apt word I could use for this thread would be... 'hooraw.'

It's an underused word. High time somebody resurrected it.

Anyhow, here's my thoughts in basic dot-point form.

1) Whilst India clearly has racism issues of its own, we really can't blame them for going crazy about this. Regardless of intent, Indians are clearly over-represented in these crime statistics. Pointing the finger back at them may be satisfying, but I don't think it'll change their cultural system. They need to do that themselves. What we CAN do is focus on our own system.

2) What we can ask of India, is to place things in perspective, and consider that the motive isn't racism. As far as that goes, I'm in agreement with Col and Leigh. This is opportunism, not racism.

3) We need to make a more concerted effort to point out that Indian students have been prone to choosing more dangerous lifestyles.

4) My last point is that there are serious things we should question in relation to the way we run our foreign-student programs. Is it actually a serious education program, or an immigration lottery? I'm guessing a little from both columns. It's pretty clear to me that our education system is becoming over reliant on funding from foreign students.
I can objectively say we do indeed have a good education system. Compare it to overseas institutions and tell me which country trumps us, I think you'd find it difficult - but somewhere along the way, we allowed ourselves to use foreign student numbers as a crutch, which we'd now be crippled without.

This strikes me as a much more productive topic for discussion... but hey, that's just me. I guess it doesn't quite have the same potency as these allegedly racist attacks.

TurnRightThenLeft,
"I'm in agreement with Col and Leigh" You are a good patriot!

Efranke
"And, no, these attacks aren't being committed by European Australians"
Of cause! European Australians are from good races! We are holy men!
Do you mean that only africans and asians can attack innocent people?
Only a simple question.
What is racism?
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

I've just come across something that
the writer Bryce Courtenay wrote
a few years ago that may be of interest:

He wrote:

"I have a theory that when we
are stopped by law from openly telling racial
jokes we risk becoming racist.
Laughing, the each about the other, seems
a splendid way to clear the air.

Hiding our fear of foreigners is
the best way I know to nurture the darker
side of jingoism."

Antonios

I dunno what you mean about me being a good patriot, usually I'm accused of being some lefty pinko. I've been in disagreement with the aforementioned people more times than agreement, but here they make good points - regardless of a person's identity, you oughta listen to the arguments they make.

I don't think these attacks were racist. Opportunist, yes, and heinous, undoubtedly. What's more, I can certainly understand why India is getting a tad tetchy about them.

But I don't think Australia's a racist country. In fact, we're pretty damn accepting, something that I'm proud of and wouldn't want to change.

TurnRightThenLeft
Probably you are not migrant!
Read my posts, mainly the last 7-8 posts, to find many proofs if Australians are racists or not. I do not say the others are not racists,or less racists, probably they are more racists BUT Australia needs some centuries to become NO RACIST COUNTRY.
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Sancho,

It is clear that there is no point in trying to talk to you. Your last post shows your state of mind. Andrew Bolt’s “stupidity and grovelling self-hatred” suits you to a tee.

I looked at Bolt’s column after it was mentioned above by Efranke and, as Bolt says, bashings and kickings of all kinds of people are getting to be normal in Australia, and nothing is done about it; until, that is, the magic word ‘racist’ is fired at us by foreigners who know how the grovelling self-haters in Australia gutlessly react to the accusation.

“…we've spent so much time telling the world we really are steeped in racism, right up to our red necks…” Bolt correctly says, citing as one instance Rudd’s announcement that “… we'd been so evilly racist that we'd even stolen Aboriginal children by the thousands just because they were black - a false claim cheered in every school despite the inability of "stolen generations" activists to name even 10 such "stolen" children.”

Our own pathetic Prime Minister passes the complete falsehood out to the world! Bolt also mentions the cheap B grade movie “Australia” which had movie critics in America saying, “I didn’t know Australia was so racist.”

According to the likes of Sancho, these gutless, self-hating Australians who have allowed this rubbish to be said about Australia are in the majority! I don’t think so. The majority of Australians don’t live their lives through OLO like Sancho does. Sancho probably counts the ‘for and against’ on OLO, and believes that that’s that – there are no other Australians with ideas.

The silly thing about these self-hating fifth columnists is that they don’t realise that sucking up to foreign manipulators is not going to win them any Brownie points among the people they think they are ‘protecting’ from their fellow ‘racist’ Australians.

Poor fools.

Jewely “Yay Graham”..

why are you repeatedly hailing Graham?

“We could well agree on the "Mess" bit at least”
See that’s nasty.”

So I am “nasty” because I agree with you and I presume I am “nasty” if I disagreed with you.

It sounds more like:

“Maybe you just like the word… the sign of an underlying a “nastiness” fetish..”

Or maybe it is you trying for some “victim” status
.
Like those who claim they are the “victims of racism”, when they are merely the victims of opportunist thugs,

“I don’t know what TB means.” Nor do I and Ginx seems indisposed when it comes to explaining it.

Jewely “Islanders (which are normally what I am used to Samoans being called although I don’t know if DNA testing has been done in this matter) are in general big boys.”
Indian boys ….are smaller in stature usually. “

A genetic differential.

You know what happens when I make such observations of genetically based ethnic differences?

fractelle calls me “racist” and usually CJ Morgan bails in with an irrelevant slur… watch out!


Example of fractelle’s bullying

“Are Aussies - narrow minded, prejudiced and intolerant?” 1-June-2009-11:58:13-AM

“Col claims to not be racist, but ask him about the intellectual abilities of the black man. He has made some very interesting posts about non-white people. I can always dig one out for you if you'd like”…

Just like you, Jewely, I made comment to a genetic difference between races.

The “dig one out for you” is clearly “bullying” (intimidation/threat) at its simplest level.

And I did not have to go back too far for that one example, among many others.

So, if fractelle is consistent in her criticism, she will chideand castigate you for daring to suggest Indians are in any way different to Samoans.

Otherwise, she will present as the hypocrite which I have, for a long time now, considered her to be.

Efranke.. agree with your observation to India’s particular history which, remains their current practice, excludes them from criticizing others.

Foxy, I agree, Brice Courtney is right

Col Rouge,

It's almost a compliment to be called a 'racist' on OLO, Col. Remember, we are dealing with people who don't even know the proper meaning of the word and people who call others names because that's all they are capable of doing.

Stick to them.

Cheers,

This thread encapsulates just about all the negatives of OLO as a forum for informed, reasonable debate. So depressing.

This time I'm not going to bother with giving the attention to our resident haters that they so clearly crave - they know who they are and it's all been said before. I think Sancho's comments most closely approach my own thoughts about this latest public display of ugly Australians engaged in mutual textual masturbation.

Perhaps Leigh, Col and their execrable cohorts should take up Rugby League - it seems to display everything they like about Australia: violence, racism, circle jerks etc.

Those cheeky Indians should either cop it sweet, or take their millions of export dollars (i.e. tuition fees) somewhere else.

I'm away for the long weekend now, but more enlightened readers might appreciate this:

http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/06/03/first-dog-on-the-moon-328/

Cheers, dears.

CJ

I am proudly wearing my purple ribbon.

Avagoodweegend, mate.

Col, maybe my memory is a little faded, but could you please provide the details of your ".... a genetic difference between races" spiel.

BTW Indians and Samoans are people; as such, some are fantastic and some are complete tools, rather like the English.

Col are you and Leigh gonna start meeting for cawfee like you do/did with Boaz/PolyCarp? If so, will Leigh disappear too?

BC"I have a theory that when we
are stopped by law from openly telling racial
jokes we risk becoming racist.
Laughing, the each about the other, seems
a splendid way to clear the air.”

Dear Bryce Courtenay,

Jokes… this is the first way people make some nasty attitudes acceptable in society isn’t it? I’m all for it personally but you’ll have to check with the spiks, wogs, wops, fobs, whinging poms, sheep shaggers, frogs, kikes, towel heads, Nazi’s, chinks and the shackle draggers also.

But this is good, seeing Aussies stick up for Australia beyond the “she’ll be right” thing. It is like hearing a collective sigh of relief that for once it wasn’t you but some big black boys. Tolofalafa!

Col that “Yay Graham” was right after the site came back last night, for awhile many messages were missing then they all came back. It was sort of in the moment sorry.

But I changed my mind about you Col, I think you’d only push someone who you thought could push back, takes you away from the realm of nastyness and more into challenging.

What was this topic, was it kinda pointing out more a problem with the media? It wasn't the fijians was it?

Fractelle what’s a purple ribbon for?

“I don’t know what TB means.” Nor do I and Ginx seems indisposed when it comes to explaining it." (Quote: TB)

I apologise. I was indisposed today. Gardening.

Jewels, TB stands for 'Thatchers Boy'. Perhaps some of us develop some affection for politicians (I know, I know,-but one has!!).

TB has an uxorious affection for Thatcher, referring to her as 'dearest Margaret'. Teeth curling stuff, but stuff I felt should not go unrewarded....
__________________

Col are you and Leigh gonna start meeting for cawfee like you do/did with Boaz/PolyCarp? If so, will Leigh disappear too?

Posted by Fractelle, Thursday, 4 June 2009 11:36:01 AM

Sod it all! You beat me to it! It's so sweet to see. I think it's called male bonding. Awwwwwwwww!

Antonios, for the record, I'm a migrant. That however, is entirely irrelevant.

I didn't say Australia has no racism, I said I think that when looked at in perspective, Australia isn't a racist country. We've got damn reasonable migrant intakes, we've got a genuine multiculture (for all the complaints about how anglo-saxon Australia is, compare it to monocultural countries overseas and you'll see the different pretty quick) and with the exception of an ugly undercurrent which exists everywhere, we're a pretty accepting lot.

Actually, I don't see such huge polar differences of opinion in this thread, but maybe I'm being optimistic.

I think the similarities of opinion are being overshadowed by personality differences, rivalries and fringe arguments.

Firstly - I think we're agreed that the motives of these attacks tends to be money. These thugs are picking easy marks to mug.

But, I think we're also agreed that it's not acceptable, just because the attacks aren't race-hate. A broken jaw is a broken jaw.

So we can't criticise India for being up in arms. Imagine Australia's reaction if Australian students overseas were perceived as easy marks and mugged relentlessly, way out of proportion to the local population.

For a further example of media mischief, have a look at the Bigpond piece headed: “Haikerwal condemns attacks on India”

In the first paragraph, you will find that he did not condemn “attacks on India” (all the attacks were on Australia, remember) but attacks on Indian students. Don’t we all?

Dr Haikerwal, ex AMA president, was also attacked; but he doesn’t think that racism had anything to do with it, believing that “over-representation” of Indian student victims was because, “there are not many people on public transport when they are on trains after working, studying late at night”.
He also said, “'I believe the original motivation is around a violent culture so we need good deterrents in the court system.” That must stick in the craws of the self-haters who blame everything on ‘racism”.

TurnRightThenLeft,

Thank you for posting a reasonable opinion on a thread started by me. It’s nice to have one ‘adversary’ who thought about what I said and not what they think of me

TLTR“I didn't say Australia has no racism, I said I think that when looked at in perspective, Australia isn't a racist country.”

Whose perspective are you looking at it from? Not Antonios?
(grammar check on that, can I add an S like Antonios’s?)

L:“He also said, “'I believe the original motivation is around a violent culture so we need good deterrents in the court system.” That must stick in the craws of the self-haters who blame everything on ‘racism”.”

Leigh does this mean Aussie has a violent culture but it’s okay as long as the violence isn’t racially motivated?

New thread needed… which is worse, being violent or racially violent. Although TLTR said that bit about a broken jaw but it does make a difference to the victim, the Why of it would matter to the poor little slumdog.

Okay that one came from the Movie Slumdog Millionaire. I didn’t know any racial slurs for Indians from India.

I suspect much of what is classified under the name of racism
could more accurately be put under other headings.

A number of incidents to which I have been privy, make me wary. And, I will relate one.

In a previous incarnation I worked with a small (corporate) team. Among the staff were two girls (of European descent).
Now, when these girls met you in the work environment they showed the standard courtesies, but if they happened upon you outside of work they would invariable ignore you.They had acted this way towards me, and other staff, a number of times.It didn’t tick-me-off because they did their work well – and, I didn’t aspire to get too close to either of them socially.

However there was another team member , of Sri Lankan descent.
One day he encountered them outside of work and they did the normal –we look at you but pretend not to see you routine– with him .
He was quite peeved . He later relayed the incident to me and branded it a “racist act” , they had in his opinion rejected him because he was “black” and, no amount of explanation from me could convince him otherwise – it was I suspect, added to his dossier of “racist things I have experienced in OZ”.

But, there are two funny twists to this story.
The first : one of the girls had a Fijian Indian fiancé, who she later married.
And the other, married a Greek who wasn’t exactly lily white, either.
So it would be hard to sustain a charge of racism against either of them.

And the second : the Sri Lanka man had previously expressed the opinion that a certain ethnic group which lived in Sri Lanka were
of limited intelligence and would never amount to anything – he said such, without batting an eyelash .
So he was hardly a poster-boy for the anti-racism cause.

Jewely,
The Government has always told us of the 'enormous benefits' we gain from migration. So the studies show the polys lie, after developers the most that gain are the migrants themselves.

Sure we let Kiwis come and go as they please but I understood you were refering to living here and gaining citizenship. We are almost cousins to Kiwis, we even offered them to be a State of Aus, once and don't forget we allowed them to take a few possums. We even acknowledge that they can play rugby a bit. Still many do come here. My biggest whinge about Kiwis is that they talk funny, like fush and chups!

Seriously though, if we, or NZ, opened our borders to the world we would be inundated. There are billions of people that would love to come here and partake in our lifestyle and welfare systems.

No, the Poms sent the boys out here. We were part of the Empire then and did as we were told.

The attacks on indians are extremely higher than the attacs to any other group.
In Victoria alone, and in just one year, 1447 people of Indian origin were punched, kicked, raped or robbed.
Indian students was the targets of the attackers 30 times more comparing with their number in west suburbs of Melbourne.
From the other side the authorities did not do many things to protect indian students. The problem is not only they was victims from many, many attacks but they was unprotected for long, long time.
I read in this thread that " these attacks aren't being committed by European Australians"
DO NOT YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT IT MEANS?
They found one attack from blacks, an other from asians and they concluded that the 1447 attacks was not from Europeans but from Africans or from Asians!
If we are blaming ONLY AFRICANS AND ASIANS FOR THE ATTACKS AGAINST INDIANS, IF WE BELIEVE THAT NO ONE EUROPEAN ATTACKED INDIAN STUDENTS, if we accept this kind of racists conclutions, then I believe that a big part of the attacks was racial motivated.
In a racial environment, with racial conclusions, logicaly racial attacks are expected!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Jewely
My english is not good, I do not understand the meaning of many words. Thank you for your understanding and support.

Thank you for the Opossums Banjo, they make lovely slipper linings.

I wish NZ would just become a state, the rest of the world thinks we already are. But then state law would make sense cause the state of NZ still owes the Maoris and will continue to do so. Otherwise I don’t understand state law but I will go hassle Peter about it in another thread.

Overseas I had to translate Aussie speak for the English people. But I also watched a Lebonese woman translate French between a Canadian and a French person.

I wanted a deck built out front of my house, you trying being a Kiwi woman ringing around Aussie builders ask for a big one of those!

Do you have any Australians in your rugby teams?

Overseas I had to translate Aussie speak for the English people. But I also watched a Lebonese woman translate French between a Canadian and a French person.

Well it would have to be a collective opening of all boarders everywhere. Maybe not China.[snigger] But they would still need money, still need to buy or build accommodation, buy food. You already have a rule about welfare don’t you and how you can’t just arrive and collect?

Hey wasn’t one of Aussie’s war payoffs from the yanks that you can now move there?

Antonios, you make a lot of sense and are worthy of all support and respect.

Victoria’s Brumby has been cowed by the ‘racist’ shrieks. He has announced a ‘Walk for Harmony’, and even more PC hate-crime legislation.

Nothing said about the POLICING of violence.

"Nothing said about the POLICING of violence."

I agree in a sense that this is at the root of the problem - bad behaviour is basically being condoned by a lack of action on the part of society.

"Victoria’s Brumby has been cowed by the ‘racist’ shrieks. He has announced a ‘Walk for Harmony’, and even more PC hate-crime legislation. "

That sounds a little too convenient for a couple of reasons. 1 - If the horse (ie sociey) is dead, it doesn't matter who the jockey is or how hard he flogs the horse. 2 - If Brumby gives more power to police, for instance, they can go off on their narrow crusades and nail people quite hard for very small infringements. This will lead to claims of overpolicing etc.

The only solution to both aspects of the problem is that the WHOLE of society plays a part in policing society. But, I know the chances of that happening any time soon are probably Buckleys & Nunn.

Leigh,
Sorry, my last post was meant for the thread on Immigration.

In your opening post you are sceptical of the 'racist' tag being applied by the Indian demonstrators and the media in relation to bashings and robbery in western Melbourne. I agreed as I have seen too often the 'racist' tag being used to stop debate and to gain attention. I advocated caution to the posters here.

However the lack of disclosure, by the Vic police and the media, in relation to the ethnicity of perpetrators makes me suspicious that something is being covered up. Brumby's stupid 'Walk for Harmony' responce simply is meant to pacify the students, when as you say more policing should be implemented.

Funny how the Vic government and the media, by ommission, have allowed the public and the world to think Aussies are the attackers and the motives are racist. The police said they believe the attacks have been opportunistic.

Some information is now coming to light that the attacks may be both opportunistic, as the Indian students are seen as easy targets, and racist in that the attackers are mainly African youths. It has been long rumoured that there has been quite a lot of problems involving African youths in Melbourne and the police are reluctant to disclose their enthnicity.

I would not doubt that there are Anglo-Aussies involved in the bashings as well. Bad habits seem to be picked up easily.

It will be worth keeping a close eye on the situation there as more information is uncovered.

RobP,

I not sure I can see police suddenly going from doing little or nothing to the extreme of "overpolicing".

Banjo,

I'm sure there are cover ups by the Brumby Government. I also think that if the Brumby Government hadn't 'advised' (shall we say)police to fudge the statistics rather than do something about the crimes, we wouldn't be talking about the Indian students now.

And, there were coverups by the previous police commissioner about African crime in Melbourne.

I know for sure that, in SA (where we don't seem to have the same problems, (probably because we don't get the numbers of 'ethnics' coming here), that the current Labor Government has squawked about the lowering of crime, but their "lowering" is all to do with reporting several incidents as once, and the general malipulation of statistics. Nobody believes the claims, especially the victims of crime which we all know has not reduced at all.

The day before yesterday, two teachers were attacked by teenage thugs who entered a Catholic school without reason (they were students from a government school, and had no right to be there). They have been charged (for what that's worth) but our total wasted-of-space education minister says it's nothing to do with her because the incident occurred in a private school ; even though her department has not prosecuted anyone for truancy in the past 30 years, and the alleged aggressors were all of school age, but absent.

Idleness and sheer nasty violence, I believe, is the problem; not racism.

Leigh,
these are the sort of reports rgat i have been receiving recently.

http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2009/04/03/42875_ntnews.html

Maybe should start a file

Thanks, Banjo.

And the trouble was between two different ethnic groups.

The Cubillos have been in the Territory since the year dot, the Africans newly arrived. No Anglo-Australians involved.

There is no point in the media and multicultural apologists trying to cover up inter-ethnic 'warfare' by yabbering on about 'white racism' against aboriginal Australians any longer. It was predicted a long time ago that multiculturalism would lead to a fight for supremacy between non-white immigrants whose values and attitudes are light years away from those of the host culture.

I've been searching for this 'press frenzy' thing. I couldn't find it. So I looked up the definition of frenzy-'fury'/'delirious' it said.

It didn't help. I still couldn't find it.

But I saw it:

The man who ran naked down our street the other day was in a hell of a lather!
They dressed him in a nice white jacket,-the sleeves were far too long though;-they had to tie them right around him.

By gee! he was furious-and delirious!

(It was probably because of the sleeves.)

Kevin Rudd came out in Parliament in response to this issue by stating that Australia would endeavour to protect Indian students from racial violence.

I don't think Mr Rudd would have gone as far were it not for the rioting, both here and in the streets of New Delhi, accompanied by the burning of an effigy of the Prime Minister. The article belows throws some light on the whole debate.

http://www.theage.com.au/world/india-turns-up-the-heat-20090605-bykd.html

I think Australia is a racially tolerant nation on the whole, but there is no doubt that some of these students have been targetted on racial grounds. What is not as clear is the ethnicity of the hooligans involved as press reports reveal some of the perpetrators are of a non-white Anglo background. What is not clear is how do attacks on Indian students compare with attacks on other ethnic groups.

Regardless of what race the perpetrators or the victims are, the real issue is thuggery and ensuring that there are adequate resources to protect all people from violence.

I do think there has been a media frenzy on this issue particularly in view of the demonstrations in India. It is too easy to throw out the race card when the issues go far deeper. These assaults are part of a growing problem in our larger cities, and point to a lack of common civility, respect and decency towards other people. We have young people roaming the streets all hours of the night and escalating alcohol-fuelled violence outside pubs and nightclubs particularly in Melbourne.

The other issue is the tendency to see all international students as cash cows for the new education economy. Many of these students will remain in Australia, hence once again the West is taking the best and brightest of other nations where educated and skilled people are desperately wanting.

I don't condone the violence from any of them. The Students I presume are of adult or at least late teenage, and able to defend themselves to a fair extent.

Not so was my relatives young children back in 1999 when here two sons were burned alive along with their Missionary father.

Now it seems "Orissa: murderer of missionary Graham Staines runs for election" The supporters of Dara, whose real name is Rabindra Kumar Pal, have presented him as an independent candidate for the legislative assembly of Ghasipura. Dara was sentenced to life in prison after being found guilty of leading the group that in the village of Manoharpur, on the night of June 22, 1999, set fire to the station wagon of Graham Staines, killing the Australian lay missionary and his two sons, Philip, 7, and Timothy, 9."
http://www.wwrn.org/article.php?idd=30675&con=18&sec=23

Three lives were lost there, Just leaving Wife, Mother & a Sister to Mourn them, & then move on with their lives. I may not be the only one who remembers & distrusts the Indians who come to our shore for Education & a Better Life.

Ma Edda, my every sympathy for your relatives. This person should not still be walking the earth as far as I am concerned.

But these other kids that got beaten up, they also have my sympathy, no matter what their race.

ma edda

Graham Staines and his children's death was not in vain. Many Christians have been inspired by this servant who gave his life to serve the poor and was repaid by being burnt alive with his children. His wife's words of forgiveness was truly inspirational. I know many fine Indians who see your relative as a hero. Graham and his children are now in a much better place where the devil has no access. Unfortunately for a little while longer God's people will be hated on this earth as they show how corrupt our systems are. Thankfully their is enough of the Christian influence in this nation that allows a sizeable portion of our population being tolerant and even friendly with a large range of immigrants. Unfortunately a few immigrants see this as a weakness and exploit the system to the max. Weak willed politicians trying to suck up to the UN and wanting to remain PC are to gutless to make a stand against these imposters. We have seen this recently with the US President sucking up to terrorist.

According to todays press, there was a rally in Sydney yesterday by Indian students, and others, about violence towards them. It seems most were claiming racism but there seems to be no evidence to support this claim, or the media are simply not reporting it.

So where does this leave the general public? Either the attacks are not racist and the claims are only to get attention, or the authorities and the press are covering the whole thing up.

I seem to recall that just prior to the Sydney Olympics, police issued media releases informing about the number of gang rapes in Sydney's West and warning females to be carefull. These realeases were ignored by the media because they felt it could damage the reputation of Sydney. It disgusts me to see the media collude to do this and put the safety of young girls at greater risk. It would not surprize me if there is non disclosure, in this instance, because of the ethnicity of the perpetraitors.

If foreign students are being attacked, for whatever reason, aside from more policing, we could stop allowing the students to come here and make use of our Unis which after all, were constructed with Australian taxpayers funds for the benefit of Australian students.

Or, maybe chargeing a lot more for less overseas students and using the profit to subsidise more Aussie students.

We should be training more of our own anyway.

Pelican,

You believe that there is not doubt that some of the attacks were racially motivated.

I believe there is always doubt with media reporting. While instances could have been racially motivated, there will always be doubt.

Late news last night showed 3 Indians (students) in front of their burned out cars. They claimed to have been taunted and laughed at about their burnt cars by the perpetrators.
e.g.'I'm sorry we burned your cars ha ha' tend to confirm that there is substance to the issue. bu
Yes there is racism in Aust. I've told this story before
> three boys one I knew and was Anglo Aussie the others appeared to be so were repeatedly riding their bikes past a diminutive Muslim woman with 3 small children on in a push chair. These boys (16yo odd) were kicking at the Muslims and yelling abusive obscenities. Another driver and I chased them off. I reported the event to the police...but claimed "they had to catch them in the act to do anything". I contacted some senior contacts quote " the boys and the police person will be spoken to as the latter breached discipline... the family are well know to us and don't care about warnings"
I know the parents of one boy,they are raging racists, the eldest of six like-minded is a member of several neo-Nazi groups.

The point is Leigh is that every society has a bloc of hard core racists. These are often articulate leaders who give manipulative (nationalistic/racially supremacist) justification for groups like skin heads to stir up wider conflict and fear. This in turn often embroils the larger but still minority, of lessor than reasoned tolerant public.

The media uses sensation to sell advertising (profit)i.e."bad news is good news" .
Generally speaking if it's news it's is sufficiently abnormal to engender sensation. i.e. Murders/pedophiles are a minority of crime but get the maximum coverage.

India is predominately a semi literate/illiterate country so their concern is understandable. They too have stirrer who do so for ulterior motives.

Notwithstanding there IS substance to these claims and we in Aust need to manage this better.

Leigh
Well of course one should always read media reports with some scrutiny. As I said that while some attacks may have been racially motivated the real issue is thuggery.

In this multi-cultural nation, we are all of us, potential victims of racial/cultural/religious attacks. There is no evidence to suggest that Australia is any more dangerous for Indian students than any other student on the basis of a small number of incidents.

I am in essence agreeing with the thrust of your argument.

Part ONE
I believe that some attacks against Indian Students was rasial motivated.
The question is what we can to do about it. How to solve the problem.
There are two schools about the solution of the problem.

1S. Racists are in every country of the world, not only in Australia. If we be hard against them, then probably we will sent more racists to them, we will strength them. The best doctor for this problem, they said, is the time. Do you remember what happened 50-60 years before against Greeks or Italians? Soon or later the same thing will happen with muslims, asians or Africans. MAKE ONLY THE ABSOLUTLY NECCESARY ADJUSTMENTS FROM THE BACKGROUND.

2S.The other school want to see the government more active, more visible in the fight against racists. They say
a) When we do not do anything to protect innocent people, indirect we destroy innocent's lives, innocent's families, we destroy children's lives. From studies we know that the cost from race discrimination transfered to second or third generacion of migrants.
b). It is not only the cost for migrant's children in the next generations, which of cause the whole sociaty will pay , the whole country, it is that the stories about the attacks, about the negative role of the government to protect them pass by mouth from one generation to an other, from one race to an other race from one religious minority to an other minority. They say leaving migrants unprotected the only thing we do is to ALLOW THE PROBLEM TO BIULD UP, WE TRANSFER THE PROBLEM IN THE NEXT GENERATIONS, BIGGER AND MORE DANGEROUS.
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide
Condinue

Part TWO

3. The example with Greeks and Italians does not apply in our days. The conditions today are very. They was hangy, non educated, they had no support, they had no choice and no way for reaction. Then we was powerful. Today the conditions are very differentm we are not any more powerful, they have millions of votes, and soon or later they will be the majority in this country.
They are educated, they know their rights, they know how to claim them, they know the local and mainly the international channels, the internet give them big power, they know how to use it and they use it to promote their rights, the international environment is changed.
Do you see the bastard, Greek migrant? He is with new migrants, with muslims, with asians, with africans, with Indian Students he is against race discrimination and he is ready to fight for migrants rights. There are hundrends of hundrends like him, Greeks and Italians and Germans etc. They have more weight in their communities than known personalities from their communities.
4. Transfering the problem to the next generations we put at risk the interests from our grandchildren, may be we bring them in the position of migrant's children today.
LET'S RESPECT AND PROTECT MIGRANT'S RIGHTS LET'S START BIULDING A BETTER FUTURE FOR ALL AUSTRALIANS, THIS COUNTRY IS YOURS AND OURS
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

At present, Australia is one of the most ethnically
diverse societies in the world. Well over twenty per cent
of all Australians were born in another country;
more than half of these have come to Australia from
non-English-speaking countries in Europe, the Middle East,
South America and Asia. More than 7 million (42 per cent)
were born outside Australia or had a parent born outside
Australia. Seventeen per cent spoke a language other than
English at home (1991 Census).

However, the concept of 'multiculturalism' continues to
have different meanings for different people.

As I've stated previously - hidden anti-migrant prejudices
may not be voiced in public until they are highlighted by
some well-publicized event, for example,
Pauline Hanson's 1996 maiden speech in
Australian Parliament. Some Australians still believe
that a 'unique Australian society and identity emerged
with Federation and... this identity should be the basis
of immigrant assimilation. Most people have moved on
to recognise the importance of 'integration,' rather than
'assimilation.'

When discussing migrants, however, especially non-British
migrants people are sometimes tempted to lump all newcomers
together and treat them as one homogenous species.

Nothing is further from the truth. Australian immigrants
vary a great deal in their ethnic backgrounds, religions,
and certainly educational levels. Their current social
and educational needs are not homogeneous, either.

People have settled in Australia for various reasons:
economic, change of lifestyle, adventure, refugees,
family reunions.

The early months, (sometimes years),
after arrival in a new country call for
the greatest adjustment, not only for the migrant, but
also for the local people who interact with the migrant.
Nino Culotta's humorous exposure clearly showed us this.

Eventually most immigrants to this country will become
Australian citizens, and will prove to be loyal members
of Australian society. This has been what's happened in
the past and will, hopefully, continue to be
the case in the future.

As for the case of the 'Indian Student,' media frenzy.
I agree with examinator - possibly better policing
might help with this problem.

Foxy,
Except for your last sentenance, would not your post be more suited to another thread.

Students are not immigrants, or not supposedly so, they are here simply as visitors paying for a course at our colleges.

Everyone in our community deserves protection from thugery. It seems that this thread is debating whether or not the claims of racism by students being attacked is correct or not.

Foxy
If I did not know you I will think that you are a beaurocrat of a state agency as Human Rights Comission etc.
I found that you ignore migrant's working conditions, they are bad, the worst job, the lowest paid jobs, the job with no future and no hope etc. May be your experiences about working conditions is with white colars or the golden boys! The migrants have no other choice than to fight for their rights. They have to fight in the Unions, in their organizations, they have to press the political parties for their rights, etc.
I thing they must trust more their eyes than books and articles which have nothing with the reality. The question is not to seem good but to be good. Migrants have long way to go until their rights to be respected. For me a NATIONAL OPEN, DEMOCRATIC, MASS ORGANIZATION WHICH WILL PROMOTE AND PROTECT MIGRANTS RIGHTS SHOULD BE TOP PRIORITY.
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Dear Banjo,

Yes you're right - I was merely responding, by
presenting a contrast, to Antonios's
comments. That you can't lump all migrants
together. There are many differences between
them.

I've pointed out to Antonios in one of my own
threads - to stick to the subject, he should
have known better, as should I.

My apologies.

Dear Banjo,

I was merely responding to Antonios' posts on
migrants. Trying to tell him -
that you can't lump them all together.
There are differences.

My apologies.

I should have stuck to the subject of this thread,
which as you rightly point out deals with
Indian students, not migrants.

Foxy,
Hope you retain what you said in your post as I would most probably like us to expand on some of the points you made. It was, I thought, well said and set out.

Am sure before long the subject of integration will come up. Am always most interested in your opinion on most issues.

Foxy,
I said you that I am in love with equal opportunities, I want to see her, to meat her, to touch her!
Is equal opportunities in prison for life? I want to visit her!
Is equal opportunities hiden in the desert? I want to find her!
Is equal opportunities expeled to the uper space? I have litle savings I want to buy a telescope and see her from very far!
Tell me foxy is equal opportunities a real "person" or migrant's elusion, migrant's dream and hope?
I am geting old, Foxy, I am near 60 and I want to know if my children, my grant children will live with the equal opportunities or they will sufer like me.
Foxy I am sorry , I was hard to you but I try to tell many people these simple things but no one listen for equal opportunities.
I know migrants must continue searching and fighting for equal opportunities.
EVIVA THE LOST, HIDEN, PRISONED, EXPELED EQUAL OPPORTUNITIES!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Leigh,
Here is a couple of things that may interest you in relation to this thread. Harris Park is a western suburb of Sydney, near parramatta.

From todays SMH

http://www.smh.com.au/national/assault-indians-rally-in-sydney-20090609-c10x.html

http://www.smh.com.au/editorial

Antonios,

There are a lot of people who would share your plea for equal opportunity. My parents were also migrants who came to Australia in 1949 after the war. Like you, they had a good and solid work ethic and hoped for a better life in Australia. While they have suffered from not fitting in with the mainstream, they have good down-to-earth family values etc that many in the mainstream do not have. Six of one, half-dozen of the other. I think it’s fair to say that everybody is being crimped in life in some way while other parts of their lives are good. So, my advice would be to be happy with what you’ve got and let the rest take care of itself (I think it will over time – the global financial crisis is a sign of things to come like the fall of the Berlin Wall was for the break up of communist Russia).

I think fighting in what you believe in is good, but only up to a point. Your approach reminds me of the unions – they continually fight on via their mono-message, but what they don’t see is that it has reached saturation point. They reach the point where going any further along their track won’t help their cause, but possibly even hinder it. It’s time perhaps to let the next generation come through with their ideas – it’s quite possible they’ll see where your and my generation got it wrong and will rebalance the situation. Perhaps a strategy of “less is more” is needed in this situation.

I am pleased that many immigrants I know have not got a victim mentality and are very grateful to be in such a free country. I can't understand people who come from crap countries and then complain about this one. They should be sent home until they wake up to their stupidity.

Dear Antonios,

We should not be de-railing this thread as
Banjo pointed out. So, I will reply to you
just this once.

Life is difficult and always has been for
most people. Nothing is for free. Everyone
has to work for better opportunities.
Life is what you make of it. Those that work
harder make better opportunities. Those who
are lazy miss out. It would not be fair to
take from those that work hard and give to
those that refuse to help themselves.

There are Laws, regulations, and standards,
set by democratic governments that set the
parameters to give everybody the same
opportunities if they strive to achieve them.

You want a good job - you go and get a good
education or the necessary skills to qualify
for that job. You can't expect someone who
doesn't want to help themselves - to become
an engineer, a doctor, or a lawyer - without
having put the effort in.

Migrants have the same rights as the citizens
of this country. And if they're not happy in a
job - they should search for another. If they're
not qualified for other work - they should seek
to educate themselves with new skills.

Complaining about equal rights - will never achieve
satisfactory results. But taking concrete action
to better your situation - may be a step in the
right direction.

For example, you are at home and you have no food.
Your neighbours have food. You are hungry. Are you
going to complain that you don't have 'equal' benefits.
Or are you going to get up - go to the shop and buy
yourself food. Or do you expect the nwighbours to give
you food. So it is in life - the opportunities are
there and its up to you - to take them - and not wait
for others to give them to you.

I've explained to you in very simple terms - what
anybody should do.

I hope that this is enough advice - and we shall not
hear further complaints from you about 'opportunities.'

Foxy,
WHO TELL YOU WORKING HARDER YOU HAVE MORE OPPORTUNITIES?
WHO TELL YOU WITH HIGHER PRODUCTIVITY YOU HAVE MORE OPPORTUNITIES?
WHO TELL YOU THAT HAVING MORE QUALIFICATIONS, MORE EXPERIENCES OR HIGHER IQ YOU HAVE MORE OPPORTUNITIES?
IT IS SEEMED THAT YOU LIVE IN OTHER WORLD!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

The Americans are so racist that the majority of whites elect an African President. Could you imagine a white man being elected to an African country or Iran for that matter. Most people coming out here with a victim mentality need to open their eyes to the real world and stop repeating doctrines of the corrupt UN who blame every world issue on white males. Immigrants could do themselves a favour by integrating and learning the language.

Good grief runner Obama is an American. What has skin colour got to do with his sutiability for the Presidency? His mother was American of English descent and his father was born in Kenya.

One minute you say "Immigrants could do themselves a favour by integrating and learning the language" after you have chastised the US for electing a black President.

What is the point of integrating and learning the language,and in the case of Obama actually being born in the US, if racists won't LET you integrate.

Pelican

You missed the point. America has often been labeled one of the most racist countries in the world. By electing a US African president we see that this mantra of the majority of Americans being racist is nonsense. Obama is to be congratulated that he did not sit around crying about the lack of opportunities like many whinging Australian immigrants. A few OLO could take a follow Obama's example.

The following comments are unsubstantiated racist comment in themselves and fly in the face of your 'Ku Klux Klan' spin.
Making assumptions such as:

"The attackers (who, ironically, are probably Greek, Turkish or Lebanese) would bash any sufficiently brown and vulnerable traveller",Is Unsubstantiated Rubbish.

"Actually, Col, Leigh usually "uncovers" the redundant voice of the Ku Klux Klan".

You are making a ant-racist comment followed by Racist Grandstanding labeling several groups from various countries as the Instigators and people 'probably' behind the attacks.

A fascinating, if predictable, discussion over the long weekend.

However, I note that nobody's taken up my point about the economic implications of these attacks on Indian students in Australia. In addition to the quality of the education that Australian schools and universities offer to fee-paying overseas students, part of our "brand" is that Australia has hitherto been seen to be a safe, hospitable cultural environment, and has therefore been attractive when compared to say, Britain or the USA as somewhere for middle-class Asian families to send their kids.

Tertiary education earns Australia serious export dollars, which effectively subsidise Australian students. It seems that few, if any, who have engaged in this discussion are at all concerned about the economic implications of Australia acquiring an international reputation for thuggery.

Australia may not be a racist country, but it is demonstrably a country where racism thrives and manifests in all sorts of ugly ways. This is by no means restricted to the dominant Anglo ethnic majority, but I think that the widespread denialism about Australian racism - such as we see in this thread - actually fosters ethnic racism among alienated immigrant minorities.

In the case of Indian students, they are not immigrants, but tell that to a bunch of young thugs of any other ethnicity travelling on the benighted Melbourne or Sydney railways. What's truly depressing is that history tells us that this kind of ignorant, bigoted thuggery is only likely to get worse as the GFC starts to bite and people start to hurt.

They'll look for someone to blame, and who better than the well-heeled Asian student?

Dear CJ,

Eloquently put!

My summary is more or less along your line
of thought - but in much simpler terms.

Indian students could be seen by some:

1)As taking up places at our universities -
(away from the locals) -
even though they do so at great expense,
thus supporting the universities.

2) They take on part-time work - this also
could be viewed as taking jobs away from
the locals.

3) Australian companies are moving their
call-centres to India. Again, jobs could
be seen to be lost here.

4) Indian students live in working-class
neighbourhoods - (for cheaper accommodation) -
thus making them easy targets for malcontents.

There are many factors that could be at play
here. And as you point out CJ - things are
probably only going to get worse.

Something needs to be done.

Antonios if you are not the target (or a friend of a target) of a prejudice then you don’t see it as clearly.

There’s been like 5 different threads lately with the same comments.

There seems to be a lack of understanding in all of them. The victims of violence, racism, sexism, ageism, (and if there is an “ism’ for not liking another religion) feel it, it compounds any crime or any unkind act.

Being bullied is one thing but being bullied because of any of the above is so damaging. People telling you that against everything you have experienced that you were given a “fair go” and chose not to make a go of it is like rubbing salt in the wound.

Please know Antonios that so many people can see what you can and do not think it is okay. People do know that no country truly treats all people as equals no matter what the claims. Well, anyone over five years old knows this.

PS: P & P… Obama was cute, why else would he be elected in such a stupid country. Doesn’t make USA non-racist just means they finally got jiggy with it. Now if they had elected an Arab I would have been truly impressed.

PPS: CJ... I didn’t really get that it had affected education majorly. Less Indians would be on their way due to the GFC anyway wouldn’t they? Yes that was a guess.

Asian students in NZ have a horrible time, other Asians keep kidnapping them, some cultural debt recovery scheme they have. The Asians will be okay, they normally travel in fast cars... they are hard to keep alive on the roads though.

Jewely
The reality is miles from the books and newspapers.
In big companies where there is no employer but sub, sub managers the critiria which used for any kind of training or improving the position have nothing to do with hard work, productivity etc
This kind of worries is for the employer or the top managers, not for supervisors and their assists.
Supervisors critiria is their friends, relatives, friends of relatives, their dogs (informants), etc
FOXY CAN ASK A UNION OFFICCER TO LEARN THE TRUTH ABOUT EQUAL OPPORTUNITIES IN WORK PLACES, NOT THE BOOKS, THESE ARE FOR THE KINDERGARTENS!
I supposed she work for the system, may be this is her job and try to protect it althouht she has deep darkness from the reality in workplaces.
THE EQUAL OPPORTUNITIES FOR MIGRANTS, OR PEOPLE FROM NON PRIVILAGED RACES IS A BIG JOKE, EVEN FOR PEOPLE WHO FINISHED AUSTRALIAN UNIVERSITIES.
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

It might be more productive to talk about stopping the thugs and leave the emotive discussions about racism to where they are relevant. It was widely agreed quite early in this thread that the Indians were not targeted because of a dislike of their cultural group, but because they are often soft targets.
At the moment, it is pathetically easy for the attackers. In many fights, the loser doesn't even hit back. The soluion is for all of us to accept that knowing how to defend yourself is an important life skill for everyone.

All foreign students have the right to work 20 hours per week, they are not only students but also workers, cheap, very cheap workers as no one is interested for their rights as employees.
Locals hate foreign students and migrants because they work for low wages and under bad conditions, and emloyers prefer them than the locals.
In Australia many people work part time, we are first or second country in the world in part time employees.
These people already have problems of cause their part time work, if they lose their job of cause the foreign students or migrants, they have even bigger problems.
The locals try to stop the invasion from more foreigners, to protect their standards, their jobs and they try it not as individuals but as a group of people. In this case THE RACE IS THE GLUE which connect them as a group.
Every group fight against foreigners has race glue in it. It is less or more a racist attack.
The racist Parties in last week's European Elections had big success in all European Countries, Including UK and Greece.
I am sure the same thing will happen in Australia too.
For me the attacks against foreign Students was expected, what I did not expect was that some persons who call their self progresive to close their eyes. I am sure we will see even more strange things!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Jewely, I was referring to the original topic - about Indian students in Australia being subject to violent attacks. The point I was elaborating on is that the damage to our international reputation from recent publicity about this thuggery is likely to have profoundly negative economic results unless something is done to restore an expectation of safety and security in our society.

Education is a major export earner for Australia - and press such as this can only be damaging to our interests:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20090606/wl_time/08599190303800

Dear Antonios,

I couldn't respond to you earlier because I had used
up all of my posts. Now I can.

Firstly, let me set the record straight for you.

My parents fled to Australia following WWII and the
second Soviet occupation of their country.
Indeed, this was a long, and personal journey
where they suffered many tragedies. Discrimination,
was a relatively minor one. And I've also had
my fair share as well, even though I was born in
Australia.

My parents however taught me that you can't be
responsible for other people's actions. Only your
own. And that no-one can define you or demean you -
except you yourself. They taught me to not be
restricted by the parameters of others - to make
my own parameters - and try to be the best that I
can be. They also taught me that the only way to
achieve anything in this country was through
education.

As a result of this attitude - sure I came across
many prejudicial people - but I didn't allow that
to keep me down. It wasn't easy, because they came
to this country with nothing, but the clothes on their
backs, but
like my parents - what we
achieved was through sheer hard work, sacrifice,
determination, and perserverance.
Enriching ourselves and - Australia accordingly.

You're right about one thing. I obviously live in a
different world to you, only because I see things
differently, and as a result I don't seem to have the
problems that you do.

The point that I was trying to make to you Antonios -
was this:

You can't keep doing what you've been doing,
And expect different results.

Any adult with any cognitive skills understands that.

Benk would it be easier (like Col pointed out) to be a target because of race… Indians being smaller (and I didn’t know this) but having money if they are obviously students. Fractelle pointed out somewhere about bullying.

Me I’m on the fence, it is bullying because of both races.

Not many or even many groups can defend themselves adequately against a mob of Sa’s although I have witnessed the odd person try, gets bloody messy but I would suggest the Indians get some Maori mates.

Antonios, I am just learning about management in Australia… not even a black belt in karate would help me or a group of Samoans at my back. They aren’t being racist and certainly do not care what creed I am but I am feeling the full force of bullying from White Australian Females in Management towards someone who is not even an employee.

Now, unlike the poor little Indians, I have time to work out how to fight them or if I should just lie down and wait for the boot to go in.

CJ, yes Aussie should make its people safer, of course. Could we start with the foster children? The Australian taxpayers could save a fortune by not privatising foster care.

Foxy: “You can't keep doing what you've been doing, And expect different results.”

Foxy this doesn’t work anywhere; Being a good person, keeping your head down and ignoring injustice leads to a quiet life. Or like the Indian boys, the crap being beaten out of you.

Antonios defends others, he sees more because he is looking.

My children have only been in Oz for three years, they look and sound like white Aussies so don’t get hassled like the other obvious immigrants to this land. Oh yeah – except hassled by the Lebanese.[smile]

A bit more information now coming forth about the 'racist' attacks on Indian students.

http://www.smh.com.au:80/national/harris-park-violence-going-on-for-years-20090610-c2z0.html

Looks like these attacks, with robbery the motive, has been going on for years and the police and other authorities have done little about it. They are racist because they are carried out mainly by a particular group at Harris Park and first aimed at aged anglo Aussie people and now at Indian students. Sounds very much like Cronulla where the beach goers put up with the bad behaviour of the Lebs for years without authorities taking action. Now I wonder if the Indian students will be called 'racist rioters' by the media if they take direct action to reclaim the streets.

These gangs apparently are 2nd and 3rd generation Lebanese muslims and have no respect for anyone else, not even other muslims. The Lebanese muslims have a reputation for crininal and anti-social behaviour. Most people who have daily contact, particularly females, attest to this. On a bigger scale there was the Cronulla situation and the reprisal attacks in other suburbs, the gang rapes of targeted anglo-Aussie girls and now the Harris Park matter.

Maybe it is time we put a stop to further immigration of Lebanese muslims.

Foxy part one
If your post about me and equal opportunities is a JOKE, I accept it, not very smart but it is a joke, if your post is you conclusion about me and the equal opportunities in working places then your conclusions are CHILDISH!
Your conclusion not only prove how unfair you are with me but THAT YOU NEVER WAS INTERESTED FOR MIGRANTS RIGHTS IN WORKPLACES, THAT YOU NEVER WAS INTERESTED FOR WOMEN RIGHTS IN WORKPLACES THAT YOU NEVER WAS INTERESTED FOR THE EQUAL OPPORTUNITIES IN WORKPLACES BECAUSE IF YOU WAS INTERESTED ABOUT THEM THEN YOU WILL KNOW THAT THERE ARE ONE MILLION WAYS TO VIOLATE THEIR RIGHTS!
I send many posts in this forum but it seemed you did not read them or you did not understand them,my english is very bad!
You speak for hard work, I HAVE THE EVIDENTS IN MY HANDS, I PAID TAXATION, DO YOU KNOW MANY PEORPLE IN AUSTRALIA THAT HAVE WORKED SO HARD AS ME? One time, from 1/7/94-2/10/94 my income from my work was about $25.000, in 4 months $25.000 but my wage then was very low, about 12.50 per hours. It is easy to find how many hours I was working per day, how many days per week. If Foxy check my working hours maybe I was for many years at the TOP from all Australians PLUS I was sole parent.
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide
continue

Banjo, weren’t the Melbourne attackers described as Islanders and now the Sydney ones are down to the Lebs but originally they were just picking on old white women? I’m watching TV and the Indians on the news being rather naughty.

Maybe Aussie is just rather violent; apparently everybody hates everybody else, which is quite fair.

Now this is bad but there are some white Australians with a lot of power causing huge abuses of people behind the scenes and that is all ignored daily by the rest of the country and this abuse has been done to people in this country for longer than those boys in gangs have been alive.

Stop the violence form the top down eh?

Foxy part two
If foxy you speak for productivity then I say you that every few years companies sent the lazy, tired, irrisponsible employees home, I am there with the most years, that means I passed many times these waves. The fabrick where I am working changed three times owners, the first one redudanced many employees before dicide to sell his business, the second owner at the very begin send home the most of the employees, the second owner before decide to sell his company redudanced many employees, the third own when bought the fabric send home many employees and now of cause the international crisis many employees lost their jobe, I am the ONLY one who continue past all these waves of redudancy, that means that I a hard working productive, responsible, mature employee.
Let's see the skills, skilled employee and how they improved their skills. I am there more than 16 years, in this time many, many unskilled workers become skilled. If the company decide to train you with a qulified trainer then you have sertified skills, if not then you will die unskilled. It is the companies who create skilled or not employees. I wrote for hard work and productivity let's write some about maturity, exeriences and IQ. I was simultaneously sole parent , two of my children finished university with awards etc. that I sold my property 3 units to go to my children and support them althought I knew that the banks will not borow me money of cause my age and income indicate a person with high sensitivity and responsibility, I had experiences from so many organizations in four countries, in various levels, I studied jurnalistand MY IQ IS 130, about the TOP 3% in Australia, my "compatitors" was simple persons
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide
continue

Apologies runner, I completely misinterpreted your argument. :)

Dear Antonios,

I can see that any further discussions with you
are not going to achieve anything constructive.
For either of us.

Take care.

Dear Banjo,

The following website may be of interest to you:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/17/opinion/17sallis.html

"Australia'a Dangerous Fantasy." by Eva Sallis.

It's on the Cronulla riots and racism in general.

Cheers.

According to tonight's ABC PM, the international student industry is worth about $15 billion a year to the Australian economy.

And this from the Opposition Organ yesterday:

<< Attacks on Indian students in Australia are threatening the billion-dollar overseas education sector and have heightened security fears for Australian diplomats in India, where angry protests have been sparked by media coverage of the issue. >>

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25608099-2703,00.html

However, it seems that some people around here are far more interested in trying to lay the responsibility for these attacks on ethnic minorities, rather than on a society that apparently tolerates regular violent robberies and attacks on foreign students.

Personally, I wouldn't blame Indians or others who decide to take their money elsewhere, rather than live and study in a social and cultural environment where they feel unsafe, and in many cases unwelcome. Given that the minerals boom is over and that we hardly manufacture anything for export, I guess Australia will have to find an alternative source of export income to education if this current PR disaster is allowed to continue much longer.

For a change the SMH seems to be on to something

http://www.smh.com.au/national/harris-park-violence-going-on-for-years-20090610-c2z0.html

This seems to vindicate those who are claiming the attackers are predominantly middle eastern. Not what the pc deniers want to read or believe.

Hey Runner, it didn’t seem to be immigrants either but Australian born and raised peoples.

But the Indian students are immigrants as the article says they want to stay here.

I’d suggest it is easy to blame the police, mostly because it is there job isn’t it, to protect people? They also seem to have known about the area a long time.

Police didn’t stop the elderly ladies getting mugged they waited for the focus to shift to young Indians. Stella.

Leigh,
SMH commentator, Miranda Devine agees with your view on better policing and so do I.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/when-police-look-the-other-way-20090610-c3kp.html

This situation has come about because police failed to take action when the complaints first came in. Exactly the same happened at Cronulla before the beach goers decided they had to act for themselves.

Victoria may be next to see the Indian students seek revenge and who would blame them.

The best way to solve a problem is to recognize that it exists, to be honest, to be fair, to win the trust and respect from the victims. If the authorities close their eyes, if they do not accept that there is a problem, if they underestimate the problem if they try to cover the attackers then a small, a simple problem become a big problem, a very big problem which could cost lifes and billions of dolars. If I was a beaurocrat and Indian Students come to me and tell me that there are 1400 indian victims I will tell them that I think there are more, that "we have 11 attacks more but we are not sure yet!" With this simple move we can win their trust, after that the solusion of the problem is easier.
Migrants or foreign students heard many bad stories about the Australian authorities or police and avoid them.
I heard a story from a dutch friend that when they came to Australia his father was working as shop cleaner, one day a young boy threw a stone and broke a window. They went to police and police kept them all day because they suspected that they broke the window. I am sure there are many stories (between migrants and foreign students) like this story plus migrants and foreiggn students do not trust the authorities, because in their countries they are corrupted . In Indian parliament there are more than 80 MPs who blamed as killers or criminals etc.
Australian authorities or police should be carefull with migrants and foreign students if they want to win their trust and cooperate with them. I know this is not good but this is a reality and we can not ignore it if we want to solve the problem.
Australian authorities and especialy the police must improve their relations with migrants or Foreign students. These problems is much easier at early stages, if we allow the to biuld up is because there is not trust and cooperation between police and migrants or foreign students
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Some of the champions of multiculturalism are now blaming Police for the the mess they created. Seems strange that those screaming the loudest are those who championed such a destined failure. One would have to be a mug to be a Policeman or woman these days. Those on the left demand protection from the idiotic situations they have made. Broken Britain is fast becoming broken Australia. (and yea it is all the white males fault) get it stupid!

runner
"Broken Britain is fast becoming broken Australia" I do not know what do you mean with the "Broken Britain" but I know Australia try to find its self, to improve the understanding and cooperation between its citizens, to bring its citizens closer, warm their relations and promote their mutual benefits.
I understand that there is a small, very small minority from Australians who does not like some of the new Australians, as muslims , asians etc but we are patient and we know this small minority soon or later will change mind about asian or muslims as they changed mind before about Greeks or Italians.
You are not the only white or european in this country, you are not the only Australian citizens who love and care for this country, it is not only your children and grandchildren who will live in this country but our children and grandchildren too.
We call you to come with us, with the big Australian family and all together create the common future of our country.
You are wrong if you believe we are racists, it is wrong if you think we are against anglo ausie.
I have many evidences in my hands how many times I supported anglo ausies and if you are in doupt I can give them to you.
I AM SURE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING AND COOPERATION BETWEEN AUSTRALIANS WILL BE VERY USEFULL FOR ALL AUSTRALIANS.
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide