I notice that GM is in trouble in the States. Fiat is gonna clean up there. Ford, here, is floundering. Could they have buffered the damage themselves by making COMPETITIVE electric/hybrid/hydrogen vehicles?.

I appreciate it isn't as simple as that but it seems to me not having all your chickens in one hen house is a basic hard times strategy. People WOULD buy cheaper running cars if they looked good, performed well, and were affordable. Toyota's hybrids are ugly and expensive. I noticed a coupla new ones - that really ARE high performance (0-100 in 4 secs) - that range from 60G's to 250G's......umm yeah right.

Is it the fault of the oil industry?. Are they significantly responsible through business pressure?.

In a word, yes.
Ever since Ralph Nader the car industry has fought tooth and nail against any changes, and ignored social and environmental considerations.
They have been so enamoured of their own production numbers and capacity that they buried their heads in the sand, and are now paying the price.

I agree Maxi.

Which is why I don't believe they should be bailed out. More progressive car manufacturers would have need of displaced workers from GM etc. Why is it some businesses are allowed to disappear without a trace and others like oil-consuming GM or tree-crunching Gunns are continually propped up?

Whilst governments continue to hold back progress by supporting institutionalised union jobs with massive tax payer hand outs, you will get the sort of moribund and regressive industry and unlitmate mess which the car manufacturing industry represents.

No more government "pretend winners".

Cut Governemnt support and the general level of taxes to leave the money in the pocket of the consumer, who are perfectly able to decide for themselves who is fit to continue and who should go to the wall....

Smaller and less intrusive government is and always has been better than bigger, know all government... but try telling political retards like Krudd & the rest of the socialists that....

Whilst governments continue to hold back progress by supporting institutionalised union jobs in regressive companies, who represent the "Status Quo", with massive tax payer hand outs, you will get the sort of moribund and wasteful industry and the ultitmate mess, which the car manufacturing industry represents.

No more government "pretend winners".

Cut Governemnt support and the general level of taxes to leave the money in the pocket of the consumer, who are perfectly able to decide for themselves who is fit to continue and who should go to the wall....

Smaller and less intrusive government is and always has been better than bigger, know all government... but try telling political retards like Krudd & the rest of the socialists that....

Margaret Thatcher dealt with it in UK, properly back in 1980s... it seems to be catching up with USA and Australia now.

govt has to be to blame as well..[remember the burton car/plan..[or the latest 6 billion resque plan..[the most recent govt grant..or what about govt depts bying fleets of locally made inports[..we the pay as you earn mugs pay for,..then pay for the fuel..[or recall the tariffs that protected the failed businness plan's the auto-industry has continually thrived on

look at the money govt has fed to the industry..over a hundred year's..we had an effectuve tram/train system..[running every 10 minutes]..run on electricity generated by local councils...then fed/state govts allowed these to be sold off to big buisness/bankers..[auto industry fianancies]..who let them run down..[who by virtue of being directly owned by the auto industry was deliberatly run inefficiently..and eventually closed down

so much so that in time..we bought auto's,..and were sold the dream..of living on our own quater acre..[needed new freeways and tollways to get to work...[needed new bridges,new roads,..needed to diversify infastructure/services to far flung suburbs..and the auto cartel collected the govt subsidies for the rebuild

the auto industry has shaped society..[directly divided us into fractured little people..sitting in huge homes enslaved to our petro-lawnmowers, dilligently mowing opur grass in what used to be leisure time...created consummers...

the hidden subsidies the petro-chemical..industrial complex collectively gets are huge[..recently a water recycling plant was gifted to ampol refinery..[one of the biggest water users after power generation..[of which smelting is the biggest users..[our paying extra for their subsidised power]...

but heck the subsidy for all of industry is huge..the auto industry is just the biggest..[2 billion just to finance car loans...lol,..or the billions..[infa-structure grants]..were now spending on roads[for cars]..lol

wont get into the petro/chemical-drug industry subsidies via subsidy for perscribed meds..,.

and wont get into those needing the new tax..[car-bon/good]..tax to rebuild the post auto,..'green'..industrial complel[car-tel]..to get more yet ever tax from the mug con-sumers via their govt lobbiests

Australian car manufacturers will cop what they deserve for not producing smaller cars. Holden says that they will start assembling a small car, but it's too late in my view.

Japan, and now Korea have the market sewn up.

No brainer.

YES

So true
GM built and tested a fleet of electric cars and them promptly crushed all of them.
However contrary to a previous comment Margret Thatcher supported British Leyland and within a decade all was lost, leading to severe deprivation for many working class families.

It is this deprivation that governments are trying to avoid albeit miserably.
Instead of bailing out car manufacturers what was needed was a multi- billion dollar prepaid order for a better product.
The reality is that the private motor vehicle is a social toy and in fact not a necessity but a luxury that the world the people and the planet can not afford.

beefboy [re your revelation re the electric[elect-trick-car]..little discussed is govt gave gm a 50.000 subsidy for each hummer to drop the electrick car..such is the power of lobby..the story is at youtube

trouble is this old gm isnt the new gm...who gets the rights to all that electric stuff[who now owns the research[and patents gm bought up..see this shuffle neatly allows that stuff to disappear]..the pension/health obligation's of old gm is now a 25 percent shaRE IN THE NEW GM...but wait till the carbon tax rebuilds the neww gm[now presumable 75 percent owned by us govt]

the numbers dont add up, gm creditors were offered 85 billion to drop their claim of tens of billions[that now allows this govt bailout plan to proceed...there is a lot of stuff not being disclosed here

our govt for egsample has a huge intrest in keeping the fuel tax on petro[its thus unlikely to forgo this huge tax take cow to pay any vehicle producer to go petrol free]...

no one is talking about in car hydrogen creation from water..[allowing the current vehicles to drive on hydrogen gas..[MADE in the bakalight carburetor with a few anodes and cathods in the float bowl//[or the joe cell making hho gas that implodes inside the petro engine..meaning the piston ignites to create a vacume[all thats needed is to ignite on the up stroke..not the down stroke[25 degrees advance of its timming

but there too much special intrest all round...from those needing the new carbon tax credits..[to those holding the exclusive rights and refining[as well as govt collecting tax on fuel;..we are all being conned[it cant cost double to put in an electric moter

The motor companies have no one but themselves to blame.
They like the politicians simply could not believe the writing on the wall.
Even now they don't really believe it.
The customer also in the US doesn't believe that there is a looming
fuel problem that will force small cars upon them.
In an interview on ABC this morning an American manager of GM was
saying that they are still building the gas guzzlers because that is
what the customers are buying !
They have wasted their design and manufacturing capital on yesterday's
dynasaurs.

If there were any brains in the US government they would commission
the now abandoned GM factories to manufacture rail cars for a
refurbished passenger system.
The high speed rail system that Obama has proposed will cost more
money than they have and will take too long.
The high speed system will require entirely new right of way
whereas a modern passenger system can be recovered from all the
abandoned rights of way that still exist.

The same applies in Australia, many of the old branch line right of
ways are still there and some are only used at harvest time.
Do our politicians see the need ? No, they shove more money into
motorways which will be finished just in time not to need them.

I could spit chips !

It’s not the roadways that are the problem, it’s the vehicles we use them for.
At the time of the oil-embargo in the 70’s some wiser heads were calling for more efficient cars and alternative-powered motors, and the industry laughed!
Their answer was more oil exploration, which reminds me, just exactly why does the gov’ subsidise this? Surely the obscene profits require no assistance?
We can blame the consumer, and don’t they just love to do that, but unless they have choices, they can’t choose, can they?
The writing WAS on the wall, so they re-painted the wall!

Maximillion

Agreed.

It is a complete furphy that the market will lead to the best choices. The choices on offer have only been to the benefit of business monopolies and not to either the consumer or for long term sustainability.

As a student of Landscape Architecture back in the 80's I was very aware of the issues of over production of cars and impact on environment.

Enough people knew; enough people in positions of influence to make changes knew and they did nothing.

Put money into railways, public transport, small cars and stop propping up these fossil industries.