I believe that corporations are actually the victims of the crooks who control and manage their affairs, not for the good health and long life of the organization, but to feather their own rotten nests.

It is interesting, is it not, that the corporate directors who have out sourced their operations to cheap labour countries, are the ones who are now putting on Golden parachutes and baling out before the Company crashes?

These Executives are no better than privateers.

To put the above remarks into historical context consider the following quotes:

”I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country."
Thomas Jefferson President of the United States, 1812

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country . . . corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavour to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed."
Abraham Lincoln President of the United States, 1864
It took less than 200 years for the corporate cowboys to undo the Declaration of Independence and set the composers of the ‘Star Spangled Banner’, spinning in their graves.

John Ward

It was President Woodrow Wilson on the 22nd of Dec 1913 who signed away the right of Congress to issue currency to what is know as the US Federal Reserve a private group of banks.It is against the US constitution for any body other than congress to issue currency.

Rothschild,"Give me power over a nations's currency and I care not who makes the laws" It was the likes of Rockerfellers and Rothschilds who seduced Woodrow Wilson into signing away the rights of Congress almost on the eve of Christmas when most were away for the Christmas break.Wilson was later to lament that he'd sold his country out.

The international banking cartels now have so much power that Govts cower at the very mention of their name.Dr Ron Paul[Congressman for Texas] in the US is currently trying to audit the Federal Reserve to see what they have done with all the tax payers debt money which they are indentured to repay.40% of US taxes now go towards servicing debt.

The amount of money in the US has doubled in 8 months.Soon the value of the US $ will halve.If the dollar collapses then we too are in trouble.The US Fed is just creating money inflationary money and this will destroy the US economy.

When Lincoln was seeking to raise money to fund the Civil War he was offered a high interest loan from the British/European financiers but turned it down because he knew it would sentence the USA to perpetual debt. The British then despatched warships to "help" the Confederates but the Russian Czar (no friend of the financiers) offered Lincoln the use of some his own navy "to do with as he pleases" and the British backed off. Somebody in the world of money must have significant influence to do this.

Lincoln created the "greenback" to fund the war internally.

The next President willing to stand up to the money lenders was Kennedy.

Wobbles,Kennedy also had started to print his own greenbacks.Kennedy was supposed to fall in line since his father was a Nazi sympathiser.Kennedy was the last good president of the USA.

The Corporate Elites now control the USA.It is time to fight back.

Not the NGO's that provide foster care for children that their caregiver bases take in to their homes John.

Their WHOLE organisation will make loads in company cars, flash offices, bonuses, superanuation contributions etc as they take children and the Department of Community Services funds them huge amounts.

The all make money contracting to the department, the foster parents are paid twice what the DoCS own carers get paid for the same child.

Of course these NGO's are also involved in Early Intervention which makes their commercial potential unlimmited.

In these times of financial crisis the children will be the first to suffer and in will come the NGO's to collect.

Is it my imagination, or has the financial "crisis" caused the creation of a new generation of conspiracy theorists?

>>I believe that corporations are actually the victims of the crooks who control and manage their affairs<<

And who are these shadowy crooked folk, John Jawrence Ward? Shareholders? Board members? Executives? Some or all of the above?

While you are explaining that, could you point out how a corporation can be a "victim"?

It's a business. It survives, or doesn't.

>>It took less than 200 years for the corporate cowboys to undo the Declaration of Independence and set the composers of the ‘Star Spangled Banner’, spinning in their graves<<

Interestingly, the tune of the ‘Star Spangled Banner’ derived from an English drinking song:

"This melody was first published in England circa 1780 as To Anacreon in Heaven. The melody was probably written by British composer John Stafford Smith... The Anacreontic Club was a group of wealthy men who met to celebrate music, food and drink."

Why would the activities of corporate cowboys upset an English composer of a drinking song?

Incidentally, it wasn't adopted as the American National Anthem until 1931. Smack in the middle of the Great Depression.

Arjay, I don't know where you get your information from...

>>The amount of money in the US has doubled in 8 months<<

...but here is the official position

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/current/

This shows the year-on-year increase of M1 to be of the order of 16%. Not particularly inspiring, but not catastrophic.

If you are suggesting that this information is fraudulent, then please let us know a little more about your source.

I for one am happy to accept the Fed's word against yours, for the time being.

>>The Corporate Elites now control the USA.It is time to fight back<<

I think you'll find, Arjay, that it is your "corporate elites" who have had their fingers burnt most in the present bunfight, and will (to strangle the metaphor) have their wings substantially clipped as a result.

The credit blister has burst, and we are merely wiping up the pus. Nasty, painful, humbling.

But no conspiracy.

Pericles,the doubling of the money supply in the US in 8 months is a direct quote from Dr Ron Paul,the Congressman for Texas.I would not believe anything the US Federal Reserve Says ,since they are responsible for this debacle.The US Govt is currently in debt to the tune of $11 trillion or $36,000.00 per working person.

The more you defend the US Federal Res Pericles, the more suspicious I am of your motives.The US Fed is an abomination whose power must come to an end!

Arjay, this is becoming tedious and pointless.

I strongly suspect that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, and are simply parrotting excerpts from web sites that you don't really understand, on the gorunds that it all sounds really neat, and confirms your own malformed prejudices.

>>Pericles,the doubling of the money supply in the US in 8 months is a direct quote from Dr Ron Paul,the Congressman for Texas.I would not believe anything the US Federal Reserve Says ,since they are responsible for this debacle.<<

You may have noticed that in my last post on this topic, I gave you the courtesy of including a reference to a formal, recognized information site.

You might like to provide either a similarly authoritative source, or some reason why we should believe that the Fed is lying to us.

And if you really think that the Fed is "responsible for this debacle", then please tell us how they managed to achieve this.

It's late at night, and I'm fed up to the back teeth with trying to educate you in the concepts of economics 101.

Either put up, or shut up.

Facts. Sources. Reality.

Pericles,Who provided all this inflationary money in the US.Who is in control of the US economy?What is the most fundamental pillar of economic philosophy? It is the reponsible supply of liquidity and the US Fed Res has failed on all counts.

Presently Ron Paul is trying to audit the Fed.The Fed loans all the money to the US Govt.The US Govt conjures up bonds which are really a promise to repay the loan.The $ billions in bailout money are loaned to the US people to rescue failed corporations.The fed being the distributor of money then take control of tax payer debt money.The US Congress cannot find out is,what the Fed has done with their debt money.This is why congress wants and audit.Would you give your debt money to any institution without any accountability?

The reality is this.The US treasury issues a bond,the Fed creates money not based on productivity in their computers,then loan it to the US people,who then pay interest on money that is not backed by productivity.It is akin to your neighbour stealing from you,then loaning this stolen money back and then charging you interest on stolen goods.

I don't care how bored or weary you become.This is moral injustice of the grandest proportions.If you cannot see this,then it is you who have the problem.

Arjay is correct in his summary of how the Fed creates money.

Here's a reasonable summary -

http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse/chapter-8-fed-money-creation

but Pericles is also correct to suggest that there's no "conspiracy".

More of an inevitability.

rache, all that your reference tells us is that governments borrow money.

They issue T-bills, which will need to be repaid.

You can describe this as "creating" money if it takes your fancy, but it is no different from you or I borrowing money that we don't have.

I am broke.

I go into a Bank. They lend me a billion bucks. They consider me a good risk, so they don't ask for collateral. I promise to pay back at some point in the future.

I have just "created" a billion bucks.

Incidentally, Arjay, it would be nice if you answered some of my questions, rather than keep avoiding them.

It's the polite thing to do.

Rache,
Truly inevitable, especially when you consider that the USA is bailing out it's economy by creating the money in the same way.

Most people consider normal banks to be like Money-Lenders or Loan Sharks, lending out some of the cash they hold on deposit.
Actually the Fractional Reserve Banking system we use means that they can legally loan ten times that amount by creating wealth from debt in much the same way that the US Federal Reserve does.

Deregulation and greed has allowed this to creep up to thirty times the deposit rates in some cases so we all are saddled with that virtual debt and that's partially the basis for the current crisis.

(Pericles, the money you "create" doesn't actually exist yet. It exists only as debt until repaid. If you fail to pay it back, somebody else has to. That's what happened to many mortgages in the USA and it spread through the whole Banking system).

It reflects how there are so few people actually producing real wealth in the community and must suppor a growing number who produce little or nothing, yet are paid vast sums.

The "miracle" of the wealth of Capitalism is just an illusion and a constant game of musical chairs.

This time when the music stopped, they took away more chairs than usual.

Of course the money exists, wobbles.

>>Pericles, the money you "create" doesn't actually exist yet<<

As proof, I can use borrowed money to buy a house. Many people do. It is not unusual. The fact that I eventually have to repay it does not diminish it purchasing power, I can assure you.

I am not in any way arguing against the fact that too much borrowing has taken place, secured by too few or too overpriced assets. That, plus the derived debt instruments that the Banks used to mask the underlying asset values, has been the major cause of our present woes.

I am simply trying to counter some of the more fanciful ideas floated here about what money is, and is not.

And to point out that the cure that Arjay seems to favour is far worse than the disease

Pericles' definition of money seems to the only authority on the planet.Money was supposed to be a primarily a medium of exchange,and a store of wealth.By my definition it also represents human potential.Both the banking system and the share market have turned it into a commodity.In reality they are trading in human potential,thus perverting it's real productive course.

It is the banks through their fractional reserve priviledges that create enormous amounts of inflation,thus enabling the share market to feed off itself and detaching from the real productive economy.

The system is now in total meltdown.They will not save it by creating more monopoly debt money.The bad assets must be liquidated and the market must be allowed to determine what is of value.

Luckily we in Australia own our currency via the RBA.In the USA it is private group of 12 banks called the Ferderal Reserve.The unfortunate side is our own Govts borrow from this letcherous banking system.

We do not need to go into debt to these Global Banksters.We can back our currency with the resources and skills of our population and isssue all the currency needed to fund infrastructure and productivity.

Germany was sent broke by the Global banksters in paying reparation for WW1.In 1933 Hitler broke away and created his own Greenbacks just like Abraham Lincoln did to fund the Civil War, thus enabling Germany to become an extremely powerful nation.Germany was on the verge of inventing the atomic bomb and nearly won the war.

It was the greedy Global banks of that time who sent Germany broke thus enabling the the rise of Hitler.

Thank you Arjay.

I can now remove myself from this thread with a clear conscience

Away from your uninformed fear of perfectly normal, everyday issues.

Your convoluted misunderstanding of basic monetary theory.

And your unconstrained ravings against imaginary enemies...

>>Germany was sent broke by the Global banksters in paying reparation for WW1.In 1933 Hitler broke away and created his own Greenbacks just like Abraham Lincoln did to fund the Civil War<<

I hereby invoke Godwin's Law.

Actually Pericles (if you're still there), you didn't borrow money, you created debt.

What is being spent by the former owner is money that you haven't earned yet and only up to a tenth of it really existed as a deposit before it was transferred.

That's what the term fractional means in the Fractional Banking system.

Only when the debt is finally repaid does the money become "real" and until then, the only real thing that exists is the house itself.

Like many others, you see money as a hard cash commodity like shells or beans but that ended back in the thirties when the gold standard was abandoned.

The governments no longer print "promise to pay the bearer" on their banknotes because they are not backed up by anything.

Look at what's printed on a US dollar, It's a Federal Reserve Note because they created it.

Money is debt and debt is money. Only a small percentage of money exists as hard currency.

If you're right, then there must be trillions stashed away in warehouses waiting for the crisis to end but it's gone back to where it came from - nowhere.

"If there were no debts in our money system, there wouldn't be any money"
Marriner Stoddard Eccles
(1890-1977) US banker, economist, and Chairman of the Federal Reserve (1934-48)

Agreed Wobbles.Pericles like many others are driven by an agenda who want to see the return of the share market bubble financed by bankster counterfeiting of our currency.Easy sleasy money at the cost of poverty for the rest of society.

Kevin Rudd like many others think that they can cure a problem by creating more debt.They are only delaying the inevitable.Our Govt has gone from a surplus of $20 billion to a deficit of $58 billion with in a few months.

By 2014 Kevin predicts a deficit of $300 billion or $36 000.00 for every working person plus interest.Add another $76,000.00 to the family mortage of a working couple.Then add to that our balanace of payments deficit due again to borrowings of $700 billion and we have a total of $ 1 trillion or a debt of $100,000.00 per working person.

They are borrowing from the very same banking system who create money in a computer not based on productivity.We have over inflated property/share values and Govts who are broke.

It is called debt slavery.What do you think will be the result?

I'm still here wobbles, it is only Arjay who is the Godwin's Law casualty.

>>you didn't borrow money, you created debt<<

I did both.

I used the money, to buy the house. I could, if I had wanted to, asked the Bank to give me my loan in hundred dollar bills

(Interestingly, if I had done so, I would have also expected a knock on my door from Mr Plod, asking me about my drug dealing...)

I will continue to hold a debt, which is in the form of a written agreement between me and my Bank, until such time as I discharge it.

So, as you see, I have borrowed (created) money, used it, and created a debt for myself.

>>That's what the term fractional means in the Fractional Banking system.<<

wobbles, I do understand Capital Adequacy...

www.rba.gov.au/PublicationsAndResearch/Bulletin/bu_dec94/bu_1294_4.pdf

If a Bank's capital is a million bucks, they can create ten million in the form of assets (loans).

>>The governments no longer print "promise to pay the bearer" on their banknotes because they are not backed up by anything<<

But the concept - that the piece of paper is merely a unit of information - remains the same, and was the point I was making. Not the promise, which never really meant anything anyway, when you think about it.

>>If you're right, then there must be trillions stashed away in warehouses waiting for the crisis to end but it's gone back to where it came from - nowhere.<<

Except for the physical nature of the warehouse, spot on.

New money was envisioned when the various governments announced their various bail-out plans. At that point, the dollars themselves didn't exist anywhere, except in newspaper reports of the governments' plans.

Over time, the money will actually come into existence when the Banks that need them borrow the actual cash. Documents will be exchanged, money will have come into existence, backed by nothing more than a "promise to pay".

If this last step is not needed, the money itself will never have existed.

Except in newspaper reports.

Hope that makes things clearer.

Pericles "How is the Fed responsible for this economic debacle?" This is what I've been rabbiting on about in all my posts.It is the creation on inflationaary debt money,that cause the share market to feed off itself and also cause the over inflated values of property.

I cannnot help those who refuse to understand and can only assume that there are personal interest agenda's here.There are a minority of people who have and are still making a fortune off the creation of legalised counterfeit money by our banking system.

The creation of money in computers dilutes the wealth of the rest of society.This is why counterfeiting is illegal.During WW2 countries actually dropped plane loads of cash on each others cities in order to ruin their economies.The only difference today is that the Fed does it relatively slowly but nearly always surrepticiously.

Inflationary money destroys economies but perverting their true productive capacity.There is the real economy in which ordinary folk produce by having a job and the casino called the sharemarket fuelled by excess worthless money.

Arjay, you are starting to scrape the bottom of the barrel.

Let's start with this piece of nonsense.

>>During WW2 countries actually dropped plane loads of cash on each others cities in order to ruin their economies.<<

This did not happen.

For any number of reasons, it would be a fantastically stupid thing to do. You'd ruin your own economy before having the slightest impact on the target country. Just think how much you'd need to raise in order to have any impact.

Go check your sources again, if you have any.

Ludicrous.

And on this occasion, have the courage to admit you are wrong, instead of simply walking away as you did when I challenged your "doubling of the money supply in eight months" canard.

>>inflationaary debt money,that cause the share market to feed off itself and also cause the over inflated values of property.<<

As I have already pointed out, everyone agrees that the lending of money to people who could not afford the repayments, coupled with the Bankers' zeal to package these into derivative instruments until their underlying value was obscured, was wrong, and should have been prevented by better governance.

But what makes you think that it is the Fed that is holding the smoking gun?

The creation of debt, as I have explained on any number of occasions, is a bottom-up thing. You seem to believe that it is fairy dust, that is somehow poured into the top, and finds its way down the line. The reality is exactly the opposite.

Could the Fed have done more to slow down the excesses? Quite possibly.

But running off at the mouth that it is "akin to your neighbour stealing from you,then loaning this stolen money back and then charging you interest on stolen goods" is grasping the wrong end of the stick with such precision, as to be comical.

Try using facts for a change.

Do some research. Learn about the basic economics of money. Provide references for your claims and theories.

Otherwise they will remain as they are right now. Wild-eyed fantasies masquerading as drama.

As I said before Pericles,you like many others have been making easy money on the back of real productive capacity.Congressman Dr Ron Paul now has 175 members of Congress backing his bill HR 1207 to audit the US Federal Resreve.This has grown from 55 within 2 months.Soon the audit will reveal the perversions of this abomination of a banking system.

Your moral compass is buried deep beneath your banking shares.

Once again, Arjay, you demonstrate the paucity of your ideas by resorting to slogans and speculation.

>>you like many others have been making easy money on the back of real productive capacity<<

I have simply been presenting you with facts and reality, now you have nothing left except snide remarks and baseless innuendo.

As it happens Arjay, you and I have probably benefitted absolutely equally from the boom times, and will be discomifted equally by the present problems.

>>Congressman Dr Ron Paul now has 175 members of Congress backing his bill HR 1207 to audit the US Federal Resreve<<

Errr - wasn't this the guy who supports your assertion that "The amount of money in the US has doubled in 8 months"?

Could you now point to the evidence?

Do you - or does he - actually present any?

I don't particularly have a problem with an audit of the Fed, except that it will make some sleazebucket accountant several tens of millions of dollars in fees.

But if you are looking for that smoking gun, you won't find it there.

>>Your moral compass is buried deep beneath your banking shares<<

That is actually an insult, Arjay, so I shall respond in kind.

Your momma... no, sorry, wrong script.

Your knowledge of banking systems, how the economy works, and how money is created and accounted for, could be engraved on the head of a pin with a pneumatic drill.

But I suppose I can't blame you entirely. It is probably extremely difficult to hold an intelligent conversation with anyone, when you talk from so far inside your own arsehole.

Arjay, I know that you don't want to hear it, but Pericles is
correct about money, the banking system and how it functions.

It seems to me that many of the lay public have false perceptions
about how the whole thing works, so they jump to all these
conspiracy theories.

I've just been sitting by the fire, rereading sections of an
Economics textbook from the late 80s, that I once picked up at a
sale. You can usually buy them from University bookshops etc.

Quite interesting, I was not aware that in the 19th century
American banks used to print their own bank notes, which was
derived from the old goldsmiths deposit notes.

Anyhow, you seem interested in the subject, so why not buy a book
and educate yourself? University textbooks are great for explaining
these things, because many of the graduates are not the brightest,
so they are written in a language that we can all understand.

At the moment, you are simply shooting the messenger

So the brightest like the Ben Bernanke the present Chairman of the Fed and the Godfather Alan Greenspan had it is right?Give me a break.Their medicine is more of the same.More borrowing,more debt for both the US people and us.How could anyone back an international banking cartel that has so much power that our Govts bow to their every wish?

The revolution has begun and a new monetary sysetm will rise from the ashes which will see a fairer society released from the chains of debt created by theft of the commonwealth.Ron Paul is no communist.He believes in small Govt individual freedom and the operation of the free market.

Arjay, it seems to me that you are taking a simplistic approach
to all of this, because you are looking for one smoking gun and
blaming the fed. It just ain't that simple.

The present situation has many causes, many people got it wrong,
but the present situation is forcing them all to come to a head
at once.

I think you will find that Greenspan has admitted that he got some
things wrong. US interest rates were far too low, for too long,
credit was far too easy to obtain in the US and here too, for
that matter.

But Harvey Cox, the regulator at the SEC, who did not believe
in regulation, was a Bush appointment. Bush/Cheney did not believe
in regulation either. The complete failure of the SEC is a huge
part of the problem and has nothing to do with the Fed.

The collapse of the US MV industry, Chrysler/GM has been
evident for a while, this recession is simply forcing the boil
to finally burst and the mess to be finally sorted out.

The collapse of Fanny and Freddie were in large part to do with
bad legislation, blame Congress for that. If you force banks
to only allow jingle mail on housing loans, if housing prices drop,
you will land up with a disaster, for people will simply send
back the keys en-masse.

Bernanke spent his life studying why the 30s recession turned into
a depression and how the same could be avoided once again in future.
Had he done nothing in September, when Lehmans collapsed, the global
banking system could have gone down like a pack of dominoes.

For how many days could you feed yourself, if your bank's doors closed
tomorrow? You have to think through some of the consequences of
the actions that you are proposing.

But I know, its easier just to blame it all on that smoking gun,
rather then try to understand the complexity of the present situation.

When Hitler came to power,Germany was hopelessly broke.The Treaty of Versailles imposed crushing reparations on the German people.A wheelbarrow of 100 billimarks could not buy a loaf of bread.People were starving.Nothing like this had happened before.Total destruction of people's businesses and savings.Then came the Great Depression and Germany succumbed to the debt slavery of the international bankers until Hitler came to power.

Hitler began a national credit program,and created his own currency building infrastructure and thus enabling Germany to become an exteremely powerful nation.The banks even tried to stop Germany trading with other nations,but Hitler used a bartering system and the money changers lost their power.Presently Venezuela is trading by bartering and they have oil.The Banksters backed by the US Govt are trying to intimidate Hugo Chavez into succumbing to their debt enslavement system.

In the Weimar republic it was believed that the Reich Bank was a Govt owned bank reponsible for printing this hyper inflationary money.In 1967 Hjalmar Schardt [an agent the Rothschilds]in his book "The Magic Money'revealled that the Reich Bank was a privately owned bank just like the US Fed,that was reponsible for this hyper-inflation.Contrary to pop opinion Schardt was never a member of the Nazi party.

The moral of the story is that you do not let a private group of banks own your currency,nor should you borrow from them when the money needed for economic activity can be created at home.Kevin Rudd need not go into debt,just borrow from our own RBA.

There is an old adage, Arjay, that says that once you realise you are at the bottom of a big hole, stop digging.

It's clear that you are not interested in facts, only sloganeering. And that's twice you've invoked dear old Godwin, most people get the message the first time and cringe away in embarrassment.

But you obviously adore showing off, and it is, after all, an opportunity to plant a few seeds of awareness, so I'll soldier on.

First, you need to understand that picking heroes is almost as tough as picking economic theories. The ones that seem most attractive to an inveterate iconoclast like yourself are not always the smartest choice in the long run.

Congressman Ron Paul is a classic example.

You are of course aware that he is a serial self-publicist machine? So far, he has sponsored 397 bills, only a handful of which even made it to committee.

And none has ever been passed.

He advocates the restoration of the gold standard. He promotes the repeal of Federal Income Tax. He proposes the abolition of the FBI. He wants to see the end of all social security, and is opposed to universal health care. He is in favour of the decriminalization of marijuana, and wants the Drug Enforcement Agency abolished.

If he had any intelligent plans to replace all the institutions he wants destroyed, he might be hailed as a visionary reformer. Unfortunately, he only manages to get half-way; abolish something that is not perfect in all respects, but offer nothing in its place.

You are following the same path, Arjay.

Plenty of slogans. A bucketful of self-righteousness. A constant sneer at institutions that - while not perfect - function for the benefit of society.

Destruction is fun, Arjay. As any kid who has knocked over another kid's sandcastle will tell you, it can be extremely satisfying.

But at some point, that kid has to grow up.

Incidentally, back on the topic of picking heroes, I'd be careful of Mr Chavez if I were you.

http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?story_id=13640166

http://www.economist.com/world/americas/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13611592

He's a bit of a rascal, you know.

*Kevin Rudd need not go into debt,just borrow from our own RBA.*

I seem to recall Mugabe of Zimbabwe, thought just like you did.
It did not work too well in the real world lol.

Arjay, do you even understand the structure of the Fed?
Fed profits are in fact paid back to the US treasury. Do your
homework, read why Congress set it up in the first place and
why the Prez still appoints the Board of Governors. The member
banks simply carry out the orders of the Board.

As a matter of interest, most of Australia's borrowings originate
from China, Japan and the Gulf. The present scandal on Wall St
means that Australian banks are now increasingly going directly
to these sources, rather then through NY or London.

If Australian banks were not borrowing overseas, then the RBA
would have to borrow overseas, to pay our annual current account
deficit. Our current account deficit is high, not because our trade
deficit is high, but because we don't save much and prefer
to live for today. So when you drink your XXXX beer, or Berri
fruit juice, or Pura milk, or Schweppes soft drink, profits have
to be paid to Japan. If Australians owned those companies due to
their savings having purchased them, profits would stay here.

But I think that all this is way beyond your head because you
refuse to understand the basics. Just blame the Fed for being
the smoking gun. Its a bit like runner telling us that god can
solve everything. Quite simple, but without substantiated evidence.

The US Fed is now coming under closer scrutiny.Ron paul now has 41% of Congress [179 Congressmen] supporting his bill to Audit it.

So both Yabby and Pericles think that all these people in Govt are fools? It is beyond belief that you both support such a vile ,injust corrupt system of wealth distribution.

Reward those who produce and not the parasites of the financial system.

Actually Arjay, if you manage to ever tune in to Bloomberg, quite
alot of those members of Congress appear, when they have enquiries
which are broadcast. Let me tell you, a great many are no Rhodes
scholars.

But if an audit of the Fed is what will placate peoples minds, fair
enough, its only a few million $, so hardly matters in the bigger
scheme of things.

The financial services industry is of course critical to the function
of society as we know it, without it everything stops. So it
in fact produces a critical service, without which you could
not function. But keep following your conspiracy theories lol.

Well both Bloomberg and Alan Grayson[Democrat congressman] want to know where the $9 trillion of tax payer debt money has gone in the last 9 months.

The Inspector General of of the Fed ,Elizabeth Coleman was interviewed by Grayson and she could not effectively answer any of his questions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsTEn-fcjU0

You can apoligise for being wrong at a later date.In the interium,we shall agree to disagree.

That was a classic video, thank you for pointing it out Arjay.

Poor lady, ambushed by someone asking questions that pluck random numbers out of the air.

A good illustration of the sort of smoke, mirror and deception tactics at which the kill-the-Fed team is expert.

Just to help us all out here, Arjay - since even the Inspector general hadn't seen it - could you post us a link to the Bloomberg allegation that nine trillion dollars is missing?

I looked for it on the Bloomberg site - I even typed in "nine trillion dollars" into their search box - but came up empty-handed.

In any event, when you do finally unearth it, I think you'll find that it is just another terminological misunderstanding.

I suspect we might be talking about the extent of guarantees.

You could, as I have mentioned before, mistakenly regard these as real money. But in fact it is a number only - a commitment, a reassurance from the government - that only turns into dollars when they are used to prop up this or that failing organization.

Remember what I said, about money only having value when it moves? This is, I suspect, one of those occasions.

But we'll only know for sure, when you find us the source of the allegation, so we can understand it better.

In the meantime, I'll just take this item for what it clearly is - a beat-up by someone grandstanding his agenda, springing random numbers on the Inspector General, then feigning shock when she couldn't answer.

As the honourable Captain Renault put it...

"I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here"

Pericles.I'm not holding up Chavez as a an example of a good economic model.He is a communist,but the US Banksters have no right to interfer in their internal affairs just like they are the Middle East.

I don't agree with everything Ron Paul espouses,but the first step is accountability of the Fed.If they do not meet that test,then according to the US Constitution,they should go.