Pericles, you've basically re-iterated "it's always been this way", and a better system would quickly send food where it was needed, instead of claiming it was too expensive, or no-one would pay for it, yet we dump millions of tons of food every year world-wide!
O.U.G., you've missed my point, stuff credit, I'm talking about dumping money TOTALLY! the whole "capitalist system", it seems to have out-lived it's usefulness, and is creating more misery than good.
As for computers, yes, I've had one die, and lost heaps of stuff, and I've been "hacked" also, but, unlike many, I keep absolutely NADA on 'puter, not even my own name, all e-addies are for nicknames, no details, so there's nothing they can steal from me. That should make it clear how trusting I am, lol!

max its not the theft im concerned about[its trusting the credit i hold to a computer, to have a chip that says i can buy[or sell]..to stand in a shop and find govt edited my worth into a status of non person

with physical cash we at least hold a fiat that others see as value[i can chose to gift it to who i want for an out cast to buy a cup of coffee to[or use it to by drugs..that govt decides arnt legal[or govt has decided arnt allowed[it can get so big brother..

govt is meant to serve the people not police them[with cyber credit it becomes moral policing,it may say this hooker cant get credit,or this person is a virtual prisoner..[no credit for transport,or for comunication[or info]

of course thats fine with the wowsers..[till booze cant be bought,or your favourite indulgence gets censored at the click of a button[or they find sweets cause cancer, omnipotant power will find ways to msupport their mates[and disadvantage their chosen enemy]

they can say your too young[or too old, to decide, they can say woman cant have credit[or men]..with computers its as simple as a click of the mouse,..you can even set differential preferances[make each credit worth double[or half]

we have seen how a certain type person gets attracted to a certain calling..[pedophiles seek to be with kids for egsample..[or frightend people become public servants,bullies become cops..[what sort will love being a virtual god?

This is becoming a little repetitive.

The present monetary system, by any definition, is not perfect.

But much like democracy, it is the closest we have come so far to a halfway workable solution to a very complex issue. For democracy, the challenge is to encourage people to value and preserve their freedoms, while shouldering a reasonable share of responsibility ourselves. As a system, it has been bent, buckled, tortured and squeezed into many different sets of clothes. French democracy differs from German, which differs from Swedish and so on. But they all do their best, even when those concepts are rorted by piddling politicians at the drop of a hat.

Money is much the same. It attempts to address the problem of how, in a world of six billion people, to facilitate as much as possible the exchange of goods and services across as wide a selection of its population as possible.

The present status of money is that it has evolved from being a simple lump of metal with some geezer's head stamped on it, to a highly flexible unit of information, that can be used in a myriad of highly sophisticated ways.

It has always been at heart an instrument that carries information. When I was a lad, the pound note carried a simple statement, "I promise to pay the bearere on demand the sum of one pound."

Nothing has changed, except that the piece of paper has morphed into a series of electrical impulses.

But our present financial situation has nothing to do with money, or the concept of money. It has to do with debt, and the creation of debt.

And you can't blame the concept of debt for the problems - that's just shooting the messenger.

>>So Pericles by your definition of 'capital adaquacy'[theft by stealth] or banks creating non productive money,why can't the individual create inflationary money like the banks?<<

Arjay, I cannot say it any more clearly.

You.

Can.

You can.

You are able to.

It is entirely possible, for you so to do.

Vous pouvez.

Sie können

Možete

Maaari kang etc.

pericles quote<<..the pound note carried a simple statement,"I promise to pay the bearere on demand the sum of one pound.">>such poetic licence[in fact it was a promise to pay in sterling sliver[by going to commonwealth bank]

recall the brits have pounds STERLING[that was a guarentee for the grade of silver [you could get a pound of silver for[in exchange for the pomisary note

well the promise is no more[we lost our pounds[in weight] for dollar in weight[that is only a fraction of the weight of a pound[to be redeemed IN STERLING SILVER]

now one pound promise is two bucks in cupra-NICKLE coin[no where near the weight of one pound of sterling grade silver

money USED to be worth its weight in GOLD[but we lost the gold satandard after the fed took over[and the fed kept the gold
we lost the silver at decimilisation[AND the fed kept the silver

we lost our copper [AND THE FED KEPT THE COPPER]

now the nickle is at parity..we are to lose our nickle..[AND THE FED KEEPS THE NICKLE

YES a lot has changed to say <<Nothing has changed,>>is a great absurdity, we have lost all that gold/silver copper and soon too our nickle[what value you put on that

a note cost's 7 cents to print
a coin costs near its face value to coin[mint]
a virtual dollar costs nothiong

<<the piece of paper has morphed into a series of electrical impulses.>>but where is the stolen gold silver copper and soon too we will ask where is our cupra nickle?

“But our present financial situation has nothing to do with money, or the concept of money. It has to do with debt, and the creation of debt.”

Huh? How can debt not having anything to do with the concept of money, within a financial system?

Pericles, what about the consumption of capital, rather than the consumption of interest generated from that capital? Doesn’t this have at least as much to do with our financial system and its healthy survival as debt does?

I’m referring to the continual depletion of our non-renewable resource base (capital) as opposed to resources derived from, and wealth generated from, the non-depletion of a predominantly renewable sustainable resource base (interest).

Doesn’t the core of a better monetary system lie with the means of generating wealth in the first place, and our ability to keep generating wealth to an extent that is in line with the demand?

How are we going to return to a healthy financial system when the demand is forever rapidly increasing while our capital is rapidly decreasing?

Unfortunately I see all this hoopla about our current financial predicament, across the developed world, as being little more than a HUGE distraction from this core issue.

The absolute basics completely don’t add up – rapidly increasing populations and rapidly decreasing means of supporting them.

THIS is surely the essential issue here.

Ludwig<<How are we going to return to a healthy financial system when the demand is forever rapidly increasing..while our capital is rapidly decreasing?>>there is the rub,it boils[i think]to debt to consume or build...

see that consuming destroys value if its only investing in a depriciating asset,..thus this con-sumption needs to be offset by value adding..that builds up real assets,..[utilities that serve as a means of asset building or of future value]

<<The absolute basics completely don’t add up..rapidly increasing populations and rapidly decreasing means of supporting them.>>..absolutly,..we need to make valuable the skills and talents of our people

realising the value in having people with skills/education/problem/solving..not just consumers consuming[but creators creating]investing in creating assets not ever faster devaluing consumables

we have the means to value people according vto their skills[to see that the best get more, say to get into a course there is a basic credit for the course

[then more credit to set up the best from the course..into buisness pilot,..with the best..owing a share in that buisness their skills create