This is starting to get decidedly odd.

>>I haven't yet heard any reason why, in this 21st century, we need money AT ALL? Surely if we moved on to a new system then a lot of the worlds ills would fall by the wayside?<<

Basically, Maximillion, we use money because it is the most sophisticated means of exchange so far invented. In other words, if you want to get rid of it, you have to devise a workable replacement. Otherwise, millions will starve. Quickly.

But, let's go back to basics for a moment.

Arjay asked, right at the outset:

"Why not have a high tax on what is becoming kown as cyber money so that banks will then be encouraged to borrow from existing sources thus keeping inflation under control?"

The definition of cyber money he provides is:

"cyber money has been recently invented by the IMF.They created $1.4 trillion to be disbursed around the planet and... is created from nothing and not borrowed from existing institutions."

The first problem, then, is "how do we tax the IMF?"

The IMF is financed by a bunch of around 150 countries. It lends to countries that need assistance in a crisis.

Question: if you were to tax this process, a) from which point in the transaction would you extract your money, b) who would pay the tax and - possibly most importantly - c) who would receive the tax?

Your problems don't end there, of course.

If the money is "cyber money", would the tax also be in the same form?

Have you thought through the Monopoly example yet? It might help if you set up a board, decided on some rules - Bank lending limits, interest rates etc. and played it through.

If you assume that the money you start with is all in the form of capital, you'd find that your first problem is keeping your balance sheet in order. After all, if you create a new asset by lending to a player, what will be the corresponding liability?

Let me know how you get on.

glad for serious consideration pericules quote<<The first problem, then,is "how do we tax the IMF?">>we dont we tax every transaction[a one percent transaction-tax]dispersed to the member countries as a dividend[on all between country payments/transactions

<<The IMF..lends to countries that need assistance in a crisis.>>yes but also has this nasty habit of making 's[ecial conditions[that send them broke[and force them to sell off their peoples infastructure]that has directly stolen public wealth[into multinationals monopoly]

<<from which point in the transaction would you extract your money,>>at the settlement's securities exchange

<<who would pay>>any buisness recieving overseas payment or income[all foreign currency exchangers,..takling their proceeds off shore

<<who would receive the tax?>>all the members of the un..[or rather their auiditable treasuries

<<"cyber money",..would the tax also be in the same form?>>..the real money..underpinning the cyber remains in the money origonator counties coin as debt/credit..in the same species[of coin]the only constitutionally legal tender

<<the money you start with is all in the form of capital,>>incorrect the money we start with is the countries declared cash circulation/plus its nett real value is real assets[insured asset value in case of disaster]..to allow for surity and continuance of all infastructure and asset capitalisations,

as well as a providing a clear real valuation of each nation states juristicional worth..to under pin its national unitary exchange/currency vallue and true value of its fixed asset capital as well as its citisenry skills capital,into realisable asset..[more educated citizenry means more credit]for egsample...

<<if you create a new asset by lending to a player,..what will be the corresponding liability?>>the asset gets added top the countries credit availability[and the credit for it is made available]intrest free[but with transaction tax on any international repayments

of course the un gets hugely expanded[via proportional representation by state or council district]..no countries, more local councils[say 144,000 local council districts, overseeing 144,000 treasuries[over seeing 1444,000 local curencies..[and their exchange rates

Pericles of those 150 countries who contribute to the IMF,you will find many like the USA who have foreign banks owning their currencies.It is an incestuous relationship that enslaves our entire planet.

It is not only the IMF who produce cyber money,it is the Bank of England[owned by the Rothschilds],Bank of Japan etc.The Euro is owned by a private cosortium of banks.Luckily our currency is owned by the RBA which in turn is owned by the tax payer.However we are beholding to the USA for military security thus we borrow form their perverted banking system.Do you acknowlege the existence of the fractional reserve banking system ,whereby banks are allowed to create 9 times the amount of money that they have that represent the real productivity of society?

If all I have espoused is so obiviously flawed Pericles,why do persist in such a dogged attack that to you,is obivious conspiracy theory? You have not addressed my most basic analogy of cyber money being theft by stealth.If banks can create money form nothing,then why can't individuals?

I don't think you're listening, Arjay.

>>You have not addressed my most basic analogy of cyber money being theft by stealth.If banks can create money form nothing,then why can't individuals?<<

But you can, Arjay. You can. You can create as much money as you like.

What you cannot do, is to put that money into circulation.

Because in order to do so, you have to do something with it.

Just printing the stuff won't get you very far, will it? You have to use it.

Buy something.

Lend it to somebody.

Build a hospital.

If you try this with your home-made currency, it is called forgery.

You are using a medium that is not generally recognized (your own dollar bills) in order to defraud someone else.

When a government makes currency, it does so, then...

Buys something.

Lends it to somebody.

Builds a hospital.

They are allowed to do this. It is not theft. Every dollar they create is used for a particular purpose. It is a medium of exchange. Once they put it into circulation, it is used to buy stuff, build stuff.

It puzzles me that you cannot see the absolutely obvious, Arjay.

Sure, the more money you put into circulation, the more likely you are to cause inflation. More money than goods equals higher prices. But when you are filling a hole created by the destruction of asset value, it is far better than the alternative, which would be to create mass unemployment and severe deflation.

Which bit don't you understand?

>>Do you acknowlege the existence of the fractional reserve banking system ,whereby banks are allowed to create 9 times the amount of money that they have that represent the real productivity of society?<<

I do understand capital adequacy, if that is what you are referring to.

But that has nothing to do with the "real productivity of society"

If you believe it does, please explain it to me.

So Pericles by your definition of 'capital adaquacy'[theft by stealth] or banks creating non productive money,why can't the individual create inflationary money like the banks ? You have evaded my question yet again.

Individuals creating non productive money is known as counterfeiting,by your definition it is 'capital adaquacy' if banks do it.Theft is theft no matter who does it and no amount of moral equivocation or corporate authority will change that reality.Is your moral compass buried deep in your bank shares?

*Unless of course this is the day they finally come for you and lock you away because you know too much.*

I'm following this thread with interest, frankly because I believe
that there is much misunderstanding about how the banking system
actually works.

Pericles would be able to explain it better then I can.

Mind you Pericles, that top line I quoted from you is one of those classic
OLO gems that make OLO worth reading and will long be remembered :)