We have all followed the case: the world is said to be afflicted by climate change. That climate change is said to be the result of excess greenhouse gas production . The major producer of which is the developed world, and the biggest individual polluter , the USA.
It wasn’t too hard to sell the idea –even if it meant inserting “historicaly” before biggest when China surpassed the USA in the pollution stakes.

Pretty soon thereafter we began to see damage claims(1). The argument being the pollutants manufactured/released in the developed world, had adversely affected others who had a right of compensation.

And this sounded all very fair and reasonable to our most enlightened – chickens coming home to roost so to speak!
but, my questions is : why would we stop there –shouldn’t we extend the principle further?... to… pathogens.

My point & the second (potential) case goes like this: most strains of flu begin in S/SE Asia (2), and thereafter, spread to the rest of the world .And let me remind you this is not a rare occurrence –but a regular, almost seasonal happening.
The resulting cost to the rest of the world, of even a mild case of bird flu , could amount to billions of dollars & millions of lives.

And such developments are not random– they’re likely to be associated with over overcrowding of both humans & animals & poor sanitation –negligence on a par with climate change pollution.

Just as the coal PowerStation is not shouldering the full cost of production : environmental damage. The chicken/pig producer in Asia/Mexico is equally passing some of their costs of production to others.

[ BTW: Argument that nation-A must sell off the family silver , or pork, to service its burgeon population is inadmissible– since it’s self inflicted.]

So … what do you reckon our chances are of interesting our climate change activists in this new issue?

(1) www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/DHA234663.htm
(2) www.travel-images.com/health-bird-flu-h5n1-virus.html

w horus>>Pretty soon thereafter we began to see damage claims(1).>>this fear is unrealisable..[law suits cannot be brought upon a generalised colective[thus need to be upon specified individuals[and then must be based on evidence[specific evidence proofs/acts;not colective result]...[its the main reason this selective carbon tax farce is a flawed excuse to collectivly tax us all,..with the nett affect being the poor will carry the burdon of it..[while the same moneyed elites get egsemptions and the clever buoltin bonus]

<<The argument being the pollutants manufactured/released in the developed world,had adversely affected others who had a right of compensation.>>again we have this vague inferance some collective punitive can generally be accorded..to the specific individuals most affected..[this premis is plainly flawed,..

the ones who will gain are the lawyers then the carbon tax speculaters , bankers and traders,then big buisness who by claiming a reduction of polution are yet being paid [subsidised]to polute,

the money will never trickle down to the poor common slob drinking poisend water,breathing in poisen air..[being bombarded by''climate change'..lol..paying carbon-tax on their food and ever more meager consumables

equally flawed is your quote<<most strains of flu begin in S/SE Asia (2),and thereafter,spread to the rest of the world .And let me remind you this is not a rare occurrence>>..mate the foot and mouth[and the other epidemics are to get control over the genetric diversity and to cull off the ability of people producing their own food

clearly your distortions avoid the very fact the latest scam came from 2004 the cdc suplied the latest swine/bird/human hybred to novavac/blaxter/klein..[noting the foot and mouth came from govt laboritries in briton..

[the aussie horse flue from a govt controled quarenteen station..lest we forget the live virus in the sars vacine and the 1918 swine flue vacines that caused the real infections and underpins the real vector that leads to a kill..[seeing the real pattern yet?..getting the du-pont?..santos?

The CC activists have there work cut out trying to get that issue and other related issues to do with the idea of unlimited growth on a finite planet dealt with.

Perhaps this is an issue you could pursue Horus once you have got all the scientific evidence together?

They once said that a black man would be president when pigs fly. His first 100 days and wham!! Pig's flu

Kulu
Well knocked me down with a H5N1 infected chicken feather!

It’s not about stockpiling evidence – it’s about carefully selecting evidence.Some evidence simply spoils a good heart wrenching story.

1) AFR story 28/04/09 :
“Diminished rice harvests, seawater seeping into aquifers and islands vanishing into rising oceans will put South-East Asia amongst the regions worst affected by global warming”
Evidence omitted: the aquifers across Asia are being drained to supply the water needs of excess populations, allowing saline water to enter – it’s also the reason behind cities like Shanghai sinking .

2) Oxfam report titled “Right to Survive”!:
“estimated the number of people affected by climatic disasters would rise by 54% to 375 million people a year on average by 2015…’it is poverty and political indifference that make a storm a disaster’”
Evidence omitted : overpopulation –forcing use of low lying deltas & mangrove swamps makes for disastrous consequences– with or without climate change!

Different issue – same theme.
3) NewScientist December 2008:
“Last years food crisis, which left the worlds poorest people struggling to buy food, is far from over and things may get worse if money isn’t quickly invested into agricultural technology”
Note: the line being pushed is lack of investment/aid is the problem, not overpopulation!
Evidence omitted: there is limit to crop improvement –no amount of investment is going to compensate for continued pop growth.

4) And,who could forget Peter-Chicken-Little-Garrett’s 6 metre sea level rise quip - um, evidence?

Whatever the evidence CC activists wouldn’t be interested in an extension of the principle/campaign to pathogens because it simply has the wrong cast ,the wrong plot.


.

Sixty or more years ago Dr Malthus postulated that the world was on the brink of starvation. He was wrong then as the world population has far exceeded anything he conceived of. Agricultural technology has advanced so much we would have no starvation anywhere if not for ideological tampering.

As carbon dioxide increases in the atmosphereand climate warms,the two prerequisites for increased agricultural production are met. More heat and more carbon, just like in a greenhouse, where optimum production is achieved at 1000 PPM of CO2.

More heat means more evaporation,more evaporation means more rain, more rain means more fresh water,more fresh water means more irrigation. More irrigation means more food.

The latest attempts to panic us with a flu virus, may just be an admission that the other fear mongering is not working. I once saw a population explosion of Mynah birds. There were thousands of them and at dark, they drove the environment mad with their squawking. About 18 months later they were rare. Being an Indian bird, they had none of the natural checks on population present in their native India, but when it got here it did not take long to even out the population.

When are we going to stop pretending we can play God.

Horus,

Yes you are right many claims on the effects of CC are are made without specific evidence as in the cases you site. There is a certain amount of jumping on the CC bandwagon which is unfortunate but I guess understandable.

The science is extremely complicated especially when it comes to predicting the future but if the hypothesis on CC is right it is also extremely urgent that we do something about the problem; hence a bit of panic and clutching at straws to convince those who don't know or particularly care about the issue.

The thing is that CC is only the most prominent of environmental stresses facing the world - all brought on by rampant population growth and growth in consumption, and by the technological developments that have made these possible. If we address it (CC) we are going some way to addressing all the other problems.

What has not been said nearly enough and is certainly ignored by governments is that our whole value system has to change so the focus shifts from perpetual growth to stabilizing and even reducing both population and consumption growth. Otherwise alas our complex civilization will disintegrate.

We are all going to die. We all hope it will not be soon, although I have known people who wanted to die today and did. We don’t want to be murdered, or falsely imprisoned, but it happens to some. We don’t want to get Bird Flu, or Pig Flu, or that nasty flu that killed millions after WWI: But it happens. Now with mass communications, it can spread quicker, and we know about it instantly. It sells newspapers, and gets us to turn our News on.

So why panic. You know my views on religion. I simply admire a man who knew he was going to die very painfully, who refused to take the easy way out. They beat the living daylights out of him, and hung him by nails on a cross until he was dead. The best governed people in the world believe he proved his point by returning to show that death is not final.

How many of you know a Celtic woman with a gift of what the Scots called fey. It used to get the women with this gift, burned at the stake, because the Churchmen judged it a gift from Satan. But they still exist. Some men have it too.

I have known such women. They thought everyone was like that. It came as a shock when as teenagers they found it frightened people. The Scots and Irish have known about them for ever. Somehow or other they have a special relationship, with the spirit world. My preacher friends who have been missionaries to places like Africa and PNG tell me that primitive peoples still have close ties to Spirits, and when they find out about the Holy Spirit, have no trouble accepting it. I know two whitemen who have had guns put to their heads in these countries, and had the trigger pulled three times, and three shells ejected, ( they kept them) with indents on the firing pin, but are still here.

A faith in the goodness of Almighty God is what saved them. Their work for God was unfinished