eAnt has a conundrum.
Next door he has one of those neighbours. She is now trying to sell up Yeees!
The people who are looking to buy are chatty and are fishing for details on the house.
Does he tell them that the pool leaks,
The pump need bearings and is on its last legs that the owner
Has hidden potentially serious subsidence,
The plumbing is plumbed illegally in that pool salt water goes directly into the environment. (illegal)
She is about to be served a notice to cut some trees down as they are intruding on other peoples land etc.
she has white ants in the back fence.
A friend of Nude nut asked the agent but none of the above is mentioned.
a. does he next time they ask does he stop being coy and tell the buyers?
b. lie! potentially making an enemy when they find out he knew.
c. say nothing just be glad the lady and her obnoxious sons are moving also potentially making an enemy when they find out he knew.
Which would you do and why ?

What an awful dilemma! And I know it well. I have an obnoxious sod next door to me. This Jekyll and Hyde character is a teacher, AND a damn feral in his leisure time.

He? must tell them. I have huge sympathy for this situation, but the positions could be reversed. He would want to know.

If this woman really wants to sell, she will eventually be forced into selling more cheaply, because the problems are exposed, particularly if someone were to tip-off the Council.....

Dear examinator,

Frankly I'm quite amazed that eAnt knows so much
about what's wrong with his neighbour's property.
So much detail. I wouldn't have a clue about the
state of any of my neighbours' properties.
Or what they're actually doing in their backyards.

I think this is one decision you can't make for him.
It's up to him to decide. Does he want his pesky
neighbour to leave? Personally, I think
volunteering stuff about neighbours may produce other
unforseen complications. I would seriously hesitate
taking any course of action.

But, it's his call. Personally, I'd stay out of it.

No conundrum really, the best course of action is of course to advise the potential neighbours to get a full pest and building inspection and that should tell them what they need to know.

The upshot of this is of course, that whatever the building inspectors tell them they will then have to live with, the inspectors will also give them an estimate on what it may cost to rectify defects on the property. If the property is at the right price then may buy it anyway. It is not your place to give what is essentially professional advice. If they are asking you, maybe they are cheapskates and don't want to pay for what they should be to protect themselves when buying a property. Would they be much better than the current ones if that is the case?

Caveat emptor. Not your problem.

Dear examinator,

I think Bugsy's advice is excellent.

All eAnt needs to do, as Bugsy suggests - is
advise his potention neighbours to have a
Building Inspection.

The inspectors will do the rest.

Foxy, what a nasty, hypocritical passive-aggressive approach. "It's not my doing, it was the inspectors", all the while feeling suitably virtuous no doubt and telling the neighbour how you can't understand how they found out...

If he has an ounce of ethical fibre he'll tell them. I was placed in a similar position last year when I terminated the lease on my business premises, mostly because the landlord wouldn't do necessary repairs, such as guttering and a leaky roof.

They decided to sell and advertised before I left, with the agent asking if I'd mind if he directed interested parties to the property, to which I agreed.

My policy was this, in regard to answering their questions: if they asked, I told. There were no hidden problems; the roof leaks required one to either get there in the rain or climb onto the roof, but it was otherwise an "honest" building

Out of about 8 potential buyers, 6 asked and were told. The other two were just tyre-kickers anyway, or worked it out for themselves, since they never made an offer apparently. One of those I told eventually bought the place, for what seemed like far too much to me (and the Agent). If she tried to sell now, 12 months later, I suspect she'd be very unhappy.

My point is that if you are going to do what you regard as the ethical thing, have the courage of your convictions. Hiding behind someone else is simply morally gutless.

Not at all Antiseptic. If there is that much wrong with the property, then it is quite possible that the neighbour doesn't know everything that is wrong with it. Nor would they likely know what species of termites are in the fence or even if they are still active or in the house. Professional advice is always advisable and building inspectors are quite adept at detecting defects. It would probably be best to tell the inspector so that a professional opinion could be given on particular defects.

You were a tenant of a business premises, fine. I would tell anyone who asked as well in that case. But you didn't have to live with whoever moves in next door. When it comes to advice on property, you get what you pay for. And finally, even if you did point out all the flaws in the property and the they still bought, you are just setting yourself up as the busybody that knows everything that goes on with the neighbours property. You open yourself up to all sorts of perceptions and accusations like if it doesn't sell, it's because you actively discouraged buyers etc.

Telling them to get professional advice is not gutless.

Bugsy, if anyone buying a home doesn't seek a qualified opinion, they're mad. Having said that, if they ask, I feel one is beholden ethically to tell what one knows. The fact that they may be your new neighbours is a pretty good reason to get off on the right foot, even if you don't see the ethics in that position. Hiding behind the inspector, who is quite likely to miss things if the property is superficially sound, is ethically bereft, at least in my view.

Dear Antiseptic,

It's common practice to engage professional building
inspectors to assess a property before purchase and it
is frequently recommended by the Real Estate Agents to do
so, as we've experienced only a few days ago when we were
viewing a property. It would be mean and vindictive to
interfere with the sale of the property beyond normal
acceptable practice (i.e. building inspectors).

Building inspectors are registered, licensed, practitioners,
and they know what to look for. Every major city in every
state has that service. If there is a problem in your
neighbourhood - you don't ask your neighbours, you call the
police - whose job it is to take care of problems.

The fact is we agree antiseptic, seeking a qualified opinion is paramount. But the thing is, when you buy a car you don't ask the neighbour. You get a mechanic to check it out. The cost to fix identified flaws in a property are often used to negotiate the price. Would you tell what it might cost to fix these flaws? No. Who are these people that ask the neighbours directly if there is anything wrong with the place?

And if a notice is going to be served, this should show up on council searches. Advice during a chat along the lines of "I'd get a professional opinion on the building and pest if I were you, tell the inspector to especially check the pool and for possible subsidence" is not "hiding behind a professional", in fact it is the most ethical thing to do under the circumstances.

If I was looking to buy a property, and had a chat with a neighbour who suggested that I get a professional property inspection, I'd undoubtedly twig that the neighbour knew something was amiss. I'd then probably have a much closer look at the property myself, and if still interested I'd pay for a professional property inspection.

Anything that showed up would undoubtedly be very useful in negotiating a lower price.

Foxy,
He knows so much because of the following.

The pool leaks into his property.
The trees shade out his clothes line aid he has had pest controller into his house and they pointed to the fences.
He has recently replaced the fence and retaining wall. And the woman conned the workman to pour poison into a tree trunk on her property which he witnessed.
She has complained to him that subsidence was due to 'his' retaining wall said is rubbish telling him he had to fix the damage. He had to hire an engineer to inspect she refused access but he was able to see that the damage had noting to do with him.
She had let a leaking tap undermine the concrete path for 6 months ignoring his requests as it was watering his garden and running into his lawn
The pool overflow goes into his bush care area and he sees the environmental damage. The plumber has told him this is because the previous owner illegally plumbed it that way.
The lack of maintenance is obvious in that only now her 'son'("devil spawn")cleaned the gutters. First time in ten years. They always overflow into his back yard. Like me eAnt has issues with neighbours because they see his bush activities and impinging on their 'rights' Lifestyle (to abuse the law and the special reserve at the back).(including state protected wet lands).
He simply doesn't want any more fuss hence he hasn't gone to the council about the problems.
Like I said he's got an awful neighbour. :-(

Examinator

I'm with Bugsy, Foxy & CJ - it is good practice to engage a building inspector when interested in a property.

The faults with eAnt's neighbour's property sound like they are very obvious, therefore quietly advising the potential buyer to seek a professional opinion (who doubtless will find more than eAnt is aware of) is friendly without sounding like an interfering gossip.

What CJ said. Perfick!

It is the best way around it. Much as I would do ANYTHING to get my a-wipe to move. If the house was rapc, I would find a way of letting prospective buyers know. It's selfish really. Boot on other foot thing.

Actually......come to think of it! I did tip of the purchaser of the cottage next door (other side), about the fact that the so-called redevelopment by the odious property investor was not Council approved. The buyer withdrew within the specified 'pulling out' time.
The investor had to part demolish and redo;-then he sold at silent auction!

Septic;-'nasty/hypocritical'? Calm down kiddo. We are simply giving our views on this tricky problem in the way we see best. Just stating your view would have done fine.

The problem I have found is that building inspections check 140 items regarding the house not the pool, the trees etc. A pest inspection should cover the white ants (no relation :-) ).

I agree with CJ when I bought a house I spoke to neighbours etc and that gave me amunition to $ cover unseen flaws.

The women accross the road got all the reports but after a BIG downpour the plumbing flaws/ tiles leaking and blowing off came to light including a broken pipe. and collapsed drainage pipes to drain the back yard!
So far it has cost this pair of aging sisters better than $12000 they hadn't budgeted for to fix the problems that didn't show up on the reports. They are fighting with their insurance co. The building inspectors claim their small print covers them. Eeek.
How do we know all this we helped them mop up and they told us...no busybodyness involved just neighbourly help to new arrivals.
eAnt used to help the old man who previously owned the property the new owners were told that if in trouble the two brothers across the road would help. 10 Pm in horrible wet weather Gee thanks old fella
:-)

Dear examinator,

Thanks for the additional information about eAnt's
situation. The neighbour sounds dreadful. We're
lucky - all of ours are nice people.

Anyway, I wish eAnt every success with whatever
he decides to do, and I hope that his next neighbour
will be a more responsible and a more caring person.

Take care.

Ginx:"Just stating your view would have done fine"

That IS my view, Ginx. If someone came to me in that position and asked, i'd tell them all i know. I wouldn't say "get an inspector" and then look surprised when the neighbour told me they pulled out of the sale. if the neighbour got upset, I'd tell her to pull his head in and be honest up front.

There are too many people looking for other people to hide behind. When the motive for doing so is to produce a negative outcome for someone while eschewing responsibility for their reaction we call it passive-aggression.

So, your act in "tipping off" a prospective buyer, presumably without the knowledge of the owner of the property, if done in good faith would be good citizenship, but if done because the existing owner is "odious", may well be passive-aggressive.

My point remains: as an ethical person, if asked, I would tell and I may well advise the other party that I have done so. Far better for them to know that they must fix the problems or drop the price than to wonder why it hasn't sold. If they got upset at me, that would be fine - their own house is the one not in order.

Do you also give quotes with your advice Anti?

bugsy:"Do you also give quotes with your advice Anti?"

As I said earlier, anyone who doesn't get an inspection is a fool. However, inspections are quite cursory and miss a lot of things that can be expensive. I work in the industry and I speak from experience in this. As a neighbour who knows some of those things that may be missed, I should speak up.

If I don't and the new owner takes it on, from a purely personal POV how am I going to be able to stand and listen to their complaints about how they were ripped off? I'd either have to tell and risk the "why are you just telling me now", or remain silent and know I was both dishonest and a coward. You might be able to convince yourself that passing the buck is good enough, but I can't.

Yeah that's right, you're the only ethical one around here. Everyone else is hiding behind a professional because they're passive aggressive and ethically bereft.

Bugsy:"Everyone else is hiding behind a professional"

Me, in the previous post:"anyone who doesn't get an inspection is a fool."

You might like to ruminate a little on the old advice "'tis better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than speak and remove all doubt".

Let me ask you a slightly simpler one: if you were selling a car, would you tell the prospective buyer about the rust, or would you paint it over and hope they didn't notice?

See, this is why we can't have nice things.

You may want to take your own advice sometime big man.

A-septic

No-one is "hiding behind a professional" as you so curiously claim.

1. It is professional to seek specialised advice whenever making a large purchase such as a house or car. I bought my current car from a friend - I still had it checked before closing deal.

2. A tip to any Prospective Buyer (PB), that the property they are asking eAnt about, to seek a qualified inspector should be enough.

3. Then eAnt could, when asked by PB, advise specific details.

4. It is malicious and unprofessional to gossip behind people's backs.

5. It is not so much what you do as how you do or say it. A lack of discretion on eAnt's part now, could indicate to PB that further down the track eAnt would gossip about them.

Thank you for all your thoughts and yes he agonized over his actions. He considered both perspectives. His actions were in the final analysis his to make.
When I wrote the question the matter had been already actioned but we were both interested if there was any other POV or factors that had been missed.
We both thank you all.
Perhaps next time he's on line you can ask him what he did. It his right to tell you. To me the question stood as a topic on its own.

"That IS my view, Ginx. If someone came to me in that position and asked, i'd tell them all i know. I wouldn't say "get an inspector" and then look surprised when the neighbour told me they pulled out of the sale. if the neighbour got upset, I'd tell her to pull his head in and be honest up front." (Quote: septic)

How very noble. Good for you.

Next time stick with that, and leave out the nasty/hypocritical thing.
............which of course you are fully aware is what I meant..
__________________

Examinator, I hope eAnt found a painless way to deal with this. And I fervently hope the harridan and spawn moved out!

Fractelle:""hiding behind a professional" as you so curiously claim."

Only I didn't claim that.Bugsy has some good advice for you.

A-septic

"There are too many people looking for other people to hide behind."

Posted by Antiseptic, Saturday, 2 May 2009 5:19:38 AM