Sorry, Yabby, I should have 'refreshed' before I posted.

Thanks for your reply. It's only half an answer though.

"Only accept asylum seekers who are nationals of countries which are our neighbours."

So how do you put that into practice? You know full well the majority of asylum seekers are coming from the Middle East, so how do you exclude them without running a discriminatory system, and one that would very quickly and correctly be open to claims of racism?

"All the rest are selected from refugee camps or similar, in other parts of the world. Be that 13000 or 30000, is not an issue for me."

So how do you propose we deal with boat people?

You haven't thought it through very well yet, Yabby. Not like you, but I'm confident you can do better.

"Bronwyn, 30'000 a year is not an unreasonable figure. You will just need to convince the rest of the Australian people that your suggested number is a fair one. Any political party could include it in their platform."

I think you'll find the Greens policy is already fairly close to what I've outlined. Getting either of the other parties to forgo the skilled migration milking cow is a huge ask and won't happen for a long time yet

*I learnt long ago that Yabby's heart is well and truly ruled by his head. *

Well I should friggin hope so LOL. The emotionally engulfed are
slaves to their emotions. I have learnt to cope with life and
its realities. You should go back and read Goleman's "Emotional
Intelligence" once again.

*so how do you exclude them without running a discriminatory system, and one that would very quickly and correctly be open to claims of racism?*

No matter what system you come up with, somebody will complain, but
such is life. There are refugees all over the world, so take some
from all areas. How many from Burma manage to sail to Australia?
Why are they forgotten? What about North Koreans?

*So how do you propose we deal with boat people?*

So close down the boat trade. Take nobody. They get towed back to
where they came from. After the original howls of protest, when
people realise there is no chance, they won't waste their money.
You won't have a boat trade. We only have one because people
realise that there is a very good chance of a visa in Australia,
just like their relatives landed up doing.

In an ever more crowded world, this problem is only going to get
bigger, not smaller. At some point in the future you are going
to have to deal with it.

Horrendous, you responded to me back a bit, and I truthfully think it isn't polite not to respond back. (OK. I know that's lousy grammar!)

I can't be bothered to respond to the substance however. You are holding your own on this thread very well, and I view with some pleasure and satisfaction that there are those here who can dispute some of what you and your likeminded say, with far more skill than myself.

With great respect to all (sincerely): hospitalisation/overseas/and getting back pronto for more emergency surgery with more to come has done two things;

1) I notice I am struggling to do what was easier previously,-the spell checker has become a bosom pal, and for someone who spells well, it appalls me to view sometimes what I've just written-it wasn't in my head like that!! It's so damned annoying, because I came back to OLO looking for precisely this topic....I knew it would be here!

2) This is the 'great respect part: nothing changes.It's like picking up on a soapie after a long absence.I don't agree with the views of folk like you Horrors; and you don't agree with me. Have we ever changed the view of someone here or elsewhere on discussion forums? maybe in some degree, but not specifically.

Having said that, the importance of such discussion cannot be underestimated. It is a vital democratic tool, and has on rare occasion,- influenced Governmental decisions.

There are good counterclaptrapper folk and folkesses in this place. Meaning of course, that those I disagree with, are talking .rap!

So do carry on.

>>As for the rest, I'm ambivalent. There may be some who are just seeking to take advantage, but I suspect that most of the people who are prepared to up stumps and leave their country for a slim chance at being allowed to enter a different one are genuine strivers. Whether the actual impetus to leave was financial or more dire, these are people who are prepared to "have a go".<<

To further this point a bit, in the latter half of his Government, John Howard effectively offered a mea culpa for his disparaging comments towards Vietnamese boatpeople during the 1970s and 80s. Even though, he may have done this partly for electoral advantage, I doubt he would have said it if he didn't mean it. Coming from Howard that was strong endorsement for the powers of industriousness and persistence of the Vietnamese.

It just goes to show you can't judge a book by its cover. Normally, the refugees that have had the hardest time, are the ones that turn out to be the best citizens because they're so happy to be here. It's more likely to be the native population that get everything put on a plate that develop a sense of entitlement and who turn into fat, lazy cats. Just have a look at the Public Service. Not too many refugees there!

Yabby,
Have been away for a bit and looks like this thread has attracted a lot of posts.

Looks like Sancho has gone after being confronted a few facts. Hope that is the end of the 'more illegals come by air' speil.

You mentioned that the UNHCR criteria defining a genuine refugee was stricter that what the Aussie criteria is. I have heard that also. Are you aware of any evidence or documentation about this? It could be handy as it looks like more illegals will be arriving.

I notice that the latest arrivals are all young males and that stengthens my beleif that that the illegals do know they will only have to be on Christmas Island for a couple of months and then granted permanent residency, thus giving them access to more social welfare and services with the BIG plus of bringing the rest of their families here under the family reunion provisions.

The Temporary Protection Visas of the previous government did not allow this and I reckon that is the big attraction now.

Even though they seem to have funds to pay others for passage, they do not come as tourists and then simply dissappear when their visa expires. No they want to get permanent residency so they can get our welfare and bring others here.

We have problems in sending them back as Indonesia doesn't want them and if they have no documentation we cannot prove where they actually come from.

It should have been made a point earlier - But 6-7 thousand Asian Girls smuggled into the country as sex slaves- By Air I assume.
No leaky boats detected ; Maybe Sancho means these Girls in his count . But they are real victims- and silence of the lambs
That is a good reason to be; not just critical of the Government, but all of its departments.
I don’t know how much faith in the Buaerocratic system some may hold, but if Trafficking sex slaves can fly in , and the human misery industry flourishes , it would be reasonable to ask how this is possible ? Who is getting cash up front bonus?
And they are in charge of the country .