Leigh,

I suppose the ordinary Afghans would fight the Taliban if they could. But when you're up against a totalitarian group of fanatics who hold the whip-hand, you have very little to actually fight for, and you start from behind the 8-ball, it's pretty hard to be motivated, let alone do anything much about it, except to flee. It's simple physics really. As the saying goes, you can't fight City Hall.

To take your argument further, what is is that we Australians have done to deserve the standard of living we have today? Sure, our defence forces have fought for this country, but being a Western country, we've had the distinct advantage of starting from a position of strength. We had the opportunity to do something about despots like Hitler and we took it - fair enough. How do you know the Afghans wouldn't do something similar if they had a realistic chance of success?

Also, there are many, many Australians who have benefited from our standard of living who would never pick up a weapon to save themselves. Do you have the same rather jaundiced view of them? For the sake of the argument, why shouldn't they be banned from receiving scholarships overseas, until they've spent some time in the Army Reserve, say. Where does the logic stop? Why is your argument only used one way - ie on those with the least?

RobP,

Well, it’s still up to people to pull their own country into the present time, and fight their own fights. If they can’t get “motivated” as you put it, they have to live with what they have. You might say that’s OK for me to say (not being in that situation) but that’s life.

“To take your argument further, what is is that we Australians have done to deserve the standard of living we have today?”

Our ancestors did a hell of a lot – including those who never saw Australia. People came from the UK, Ireland and Europe where they had sorted out the bones of what the first settlers here stared with. It was a time of enlightenment, and it wasn’t long before we cast off the the few remaining shackles that Europe still had.

Our ancestors fought for everything we now enjoy; it wasn’t luck or a gift. All Western countries did the same. The non-Western ones, so far, haven’t. We cannot do it for them. They have to do it, but it seems that many of them do not want to. It really is not our responsibility to hand out the benefits to people who haven’t lifted a hand to help themselves.

As you say, many of us didn’t do much towards getting what we have. Our ancestor did it for us – not foreigners, like we are in the Middle East.

CJ Morgan,

I’m not aware of your links, but I never look at them. Not because it’s you – I never look at anyone’s links; the net is notoriously inaccurate because all and sundry can put up what they like. Some of it’s OK, much of it is not. Unless you know the person behind the information, it’s hard to tell good from bad. Added to that, I don’t think you would be referring to anything you didn’t agree with:) , and I don’t like to go over my megabyte allowance.

It “may surprise you”, too, that I do not support Australian involvement in Afghanistan. I did go along with Iraq, but only until they got rid of Saddam. I also agree that our involvement in foreign countries encourages asylum seekers to think that it’s OK to come here (they don’t know me, hey?) as happened with the Vietnam war, which, incidentally I was firmly against. I had a younger brother jailed because he refused to register for conscription, in writing, to the government. His twin brother didnt' bother to register, and their number never came up anyway!

Leigh, let me try to understand this. Able bodied men that should be working to support their families should be forced to (or at least shamed into) joining an army to fight against whoever may oppress them, but definitely not allowed to leave the country to seek refuge if hassled by said oppressors? meanwhile leaving their women and children to fend for themselves no doubt.

But if the war is not in your country, then you should never have to join the army. In fact, we and our allies (you know, the ones we have security treaties with) should never send our armies to help those people who would otherwise become refugees in countries that don't want them, because that only encourages them to want to seek refuge in our countries.

Yeah, that's pretty grey.

Dear Yabby,

If you saw that particular interview
and still have to ask me - what's my point?

Then I guess clearly for you there
isn't one.

I thought that by reading the transcript
of that interview - you would better
understand the Government's position
on asylum seekers. Which would make you
think twice before making accusations
that aren't valid.

Silly me.

Ginx

1-- ‘ It seems that any one of us leaving our country of origin are doing so because we feel there a better life to be had in our chosen country’.
There are two parties to such a transaction . Increasingly it’s the case that if you want to move to another country you must have some skill or association they want.If you’re seeking to use the UN refugee convention you must have a well founded fear of being persecuted .For Aust to open its borders, in this day and age, to people merely because the new comers envisaged they might have a –better life– here is both unstainable & just plain … ‘stoopid’

2-- To have “had (ones) country destroyed …and want to get away from it…”
Might be a recognised reason for seeking refugee status – BUT …
1)If you really were running for your life ---the UN convention facilities you stopping at the FIRST haven --- It does not endorse your shopping-around for the best social welfare system , the best clime or the best beaches. To allow ‘refugees’ to shop around is contrary the convention they are seeking relief under and, it we allow them to get away with it is just plain ….’stoopid’
2) And if you were really running for your life, you wouldn’t be seeking to return to that old country soon after securing Aust residency. To do so would show you weren’t a genuine refuge or, you were just plain …‘stoopid’

Yet, quite number of our ‘refugees’ both shop around & return to their old country soon afterwards. Is it them or us who are just plain …stoopid

As for liberating the Afganistan, Rowan & Martin, Waterage, Nixon these issues for other threads & other days .To get side tracked on such peripheral issues would be just plain …’stoopid’

You said it … “stoopid is as stoopid does”