Dear Foxy,

"At the root of this controversy is a basic value judgement about the human status of the fetus. Is it a baby or a mere collection of cells and tissue... The conflicting value judgements stem from this ambiguity."

I agree on this point entirely. Whether or not people believe that abortion is an acceptable practice goes to their upbringing and the cultural environment in which they developed, normally from a young age.

Without trying to make this a contentious issue, I'll try to put my reasons, from first principles, why abortion is not a good practice.

First, let's look at what we know for sure. The foetus starts off as a clump of cells that goes through an evolutionary, but predictable, process of development ... there are distinct timings when the foetus can be said to have reached another stage in its development. We also know that after 9 months, at the end of the process of pregnancy, a baby comes out that has distinct human characteristics. I think all mothers would say their baby has its own individual identity.

The real question of import to the debate on abortion is what are the hitherto invisible processes that cause a clump of biological cells to develop to a human with "all the bells and whistles" including having a spiritual core. [What a complex development in just 9 months!]

Logic suggests there can be no way the process is purely a one-dimensional biological one. Mothers have said that the baby first starts kicking at about 4 and half months. It has also been posited that this is when the spiritual part of the baby enters its body. This seems to be perfectly logical. In light of that, there is no doubt in my mind that having an abortion after this date is murder just like any other that occurs in the physical world.

TBC

(Cont.)

On top of that, there are other connections made during the baby's development. The 4 and a half month milestone is when the baby's development has MATURED to the point where the spiritual part can enter the body. But, as in any physical development, there is an earlier period when the development is immature and still growing. How do we know there aren't many other connections being made in a synchronous order along a prescribed time line all the way through the 9 months of pregnancy? [Think of the Star Wars movies where the reversed time order of the three “prequels” (viz the original trilogy) dramatically showed there were previous episodes to the story that existed in a whole different setting but whose individual strands evolved seamlessly into the final trilogy.]

So, I’d suggest that even having an abortion after a short time after conception is likely to be shutting down or deadening connections that have already opened, are opening up or are about to open. I know from my job that to get a computer program to work requires the programmer to precisely open ports, via a layered series of parallel shells, that connect as needed to external files, sockets and processes. Why shouldn’t similar physical processes also occur in human pregnancy?

Is it right to abort these processes? I definitely believe not

If we agree to disagree about the rights and wrongs or potential life denied, then we must be realistic about one other important fact.
That is, that women, for whatever reason, have always, and presumably WILL always, seek abortions.
If we accept that, we must ask, is it preferable to ban them, and suffer all the death and misery that inevitably follows, or provide them in safety, despite the wide variety of opinions and religious stances in the population?
Seems a no-brainer in this modern world, to me anyway.

Dear RobP,

Thank you for going to so much trouble to explain
your stance on this subject to me. I fully
understand your position.

As I stated in an earlier post - would I have an
abortion? I honestly don't know. It would depend
on the circumstances involved. It took me five
years to get pregnant after I was married. Then
I had two boys, one after another. We were told
we couldn't have children - so to me, my babies
were 'miracles.'

However, as Max pointed out - women will continue
to have abortions - regardless of what any of us
think. And I have to agree that making it safe
for them to do so - is a wiser option than
the nightmare of "backstreet abortions," that
existed in the past.

No true a word has been spoken.

Personally, I'm with Graham on this - we need some new, interesting topics rather than kicking around the same old crap that doesn't alter anybody's perspective.
Posted by CJ Morgan, Saturday, 4 April 2009 8:35:14 PM

EVO

So its pretty obvious the planet is getting very small, especially in the world of interesting topics. Here is a little idea. "space the final frontier". And in reality we also need something to boost the worlds economy, and a new world project is the only answer because we have all ran out of goals here on earth. Again its pretty obvious that the worlds problems cannot be fixed and like I've said and many are feeling it, that we are all going around and around in circles and there is no way anyone is going to take any notice cause quite simply, humans do not listen. You would have to make a global law and enforce it with jail penalties to stop the worlds reproduction wows. I and many others see the big picture so clearly and what resources we have left should be put in above and beyond this planet before the entire planetary system fails.

Basically the youth of the planet need a new direction, something to go for, something exciting and dangerous and we can all imagine how great the feeling was for our great explorers like Captain Cook, Christopher Columbus and so on. All the worlds industries would be making parts for space exploration in building habitats and other space technologies and within 50 years we could be mining the moon, using it for tourism and most of importantly of all a second base in case something here on earth goes catastrophically wrong. All dangerous experiments can be conducted in safety without jeopardizing the fragile flora and fauna of this planet and don't say we don't have the technology or nohow, because we have! and those in the know know it.

And to keep on topic about abortions, once mankind gets off this depleted rock there wont be any need for threads like this to be discussed ever again.

Wishful thinking? Not at all. Then mars, here we come. Under-ground at first, then who knows.

In all reality, staying here is certain death and all realist know it.

Just a thought.

EVO