Jenny Macklen today defended sending stimulus payments to non Australian residents.
Good grief woman how did this happen.
It makes a joke e mail circulating look good.
Who is stimulated in those distant country's?
I want that lady to consider leaving the Parliament, had she just said we got it wrong but to defend this stupid act is the end for a woman I never had much faith in to Begin with.
$1400 to one woman in NZ if every check was that much we just exported 3 jobs.

*Good grief woman how did this happen.*

Ah, when the masses think that all will be well, if we
just leave it up to well meaning Govts, they might
just be in for a shock!

My maths let me down didn't they?
69 times 1.400? a lot of jobs.
While I am welded on ALP, proud of our progress from our entry as government.
Why is this story hidden? few press entry's are telling the full story.
Are Medea more interested in the spoiling tactics of Peter Costello?
This should be front page news yet Costello a man who could not win a raffle is?
My ALP, please understand this is horrible, it is things like this that turn voters away.
One day such an event will be the first rock in a landslide that removes us from office.
For it to happen is dreadful, to defend it? horrible.

I met a lady yesterday with six children to five fathers and none of them are her current partner.

That's 6 x $950.00
6 x maintinance payments
and our seniors are going to miss out if they are the ones who worked to hard and achieved to much, despite providing the best for thier children.

Please put this on the list of 'fix it's' while you're at it.

I say again, welfare should consist of goods and services, not cash, as all to often the kids miss out.

rehctub,
More information please.
This on the surface sounds wrong.
First is she on welfare? in which case she gets zero.
Welfare is also related to how much comes in i.e. how much maintenance she gets.
I understood the $950 was per tax payer not related to the number of children she has.
Are the 6 children all under aged or working? Are they all at home?

Dear Belly,

69,000 cheques sent overseas - this does sound
like a major computer error. These cheques
for pensioners that were issued in December 2008,
for $1,400 for pensioners on full pensions, were
supposed to help pensioners in Australia, or so
I thought. However, I don't know what sort of
'agreements' Australia has entered into for Australian
pensioners living overseas. Are they still eligible to
receive Australian pensions? Belly, that does need
clearing up before judgements are made.

What worries me is that on last night's news - it appears
that cheques were also issued to people who were deceased.
This indicates a major records error. Centrelink should
go over its records. I don't know what the answer is to
these mistakes. Or who's to blame. The Government meant well,
at least it tried to do something - but as always, there are
mistakes that will occur in a major government project
such as this one.

The sum value of 69,000 cheques will be small compared with the wealth to eventually go off-shore when Australia region dividends are paid to manufacturers' head offices in Japan and South Korea. Albeit, the stimulis should keep the Retail sector bouyant.

While "Buy Australian" is protectionist and open international markets are preferred in poor economic times, this current short-term stimulus is best limited to keep people in jobs, unless Japan and Korean et al provide contra a stimulus to our markets, as we are (indirectly)supporting their manufacturing sector (via profit repatriation). Both sides need to be open for the true Market system to work.

Recipients reducing household debt is not the Government's preferred option, yet debt reduction means paying less interest on principal debt, not merely the principal itself. Taking $1,000 of a credit debt will save the creditor several thousands of dollars to the Banks in the longer term. (The effect of paying a high interest rates and a minimum balance means the debt is paid back to the Bank many times over

Oh dear oh dear;
To make matters worse she gave the lame excuse that the government was
tied to the international pension agreement.
It is not a pension payment but a one off payment to people, some of
whom happen to be pensioners.

Is this the quality of ministers ?
I can understand a mistake which could be corrected by stopping the cheques.
But to give such a pathetic excuse just made it worse.

Oh my gord, you couldn't make it up !

Tax bonus
Am I eligible?
Temporary residents
If you were an Australian resident for tax purposes for the 2007-08 financial year, and you meet all the other eligibility criteria, you will receive the tax bonus payment. It does not matter whether you were here on a temporary resident visa or not.
Deceased estates
If a person dies after 30 June 2008 and an income tax return for the 2007-08 year has been lodged by them or on their behalf before 30 June 2009, a tax bonus payment will be made to the deceased estate provided all of the eligibility criteria is met.
http://www.ato.gov.au/corporate/content.asp?doc=/content/00178930.htm&page=2&H2

69,000. poor pensions could of done with this money ,me being one of them , i haven;t had a decent feed in years ,after i pay my bills im living on scaps from the day before , thats right us pensions are being treat like stray animals ,get a feed when we can , and fight to get justice for the abuse we suffered as children while in state care as a child in new south wales , how corupt is our goverment ,sure the 69,000.cheques , are not been sent to the same bank address with the same account name , for the same person

It is clear some do not understand the distribution of these so called economic stimulus packages.
Round one, already given went to parents and pensioners, this farce of sending money over seas appears to be related to that.
After all round two checks only went out this week.
Round two did include payments for children, $950 dollars each child.
It also[ next month] will see those earning $100.000 or less get on a sliding scale, a handout.
I will get one, and spend it on Australian made goods.
Now we need to get our heads around this, while aiming to help the poor government wants us to spend it, most will.
It has already had an impact on sales and it will have another.
If we followed opposition[are they worthy to be called that?] policy and spent it on a work creation scheme.
Say water? how long would it take to recirculate the money?
It will fix nothing but it will help, both the economy and some truly poor people.
rechtub your point is noted but while true I wonder why we dismiss this women, the thousands of them like this?
Her children are ours too.
Foxy, my hurt and pain comes because it was wrong, possible an accident, but a lady not known for thinking should have said sorry.
should have told the Truth, should have seen it never happened.
My party first thoughts are the best, not a cover up, not a lie but removal from the front bench now forever.

worse still Belly, reports today that the dead have received payment too. Maybe this was a reward to those deceased who have faithfully voted ALP #1 all these years? Kevin Rudd, spend early spend often.

If we followed opposition[are they worthy to be called that?] policy and spent it on a work creation scheme.
Say water? how long would it take to recirculate the money?

Two thing belly.
1. You have a very short memory, or do you simply choose to forget how bad labor was doing prior to Krud.

2. The money should have gone to creating jobs, reducing the red tape for small business associated with employment and building programs. Yes, it would take some time for the money to recirculate but at least if you build the chicken, you can then continue to enjoy the eggs for a long long time.This money will be gone again soon, just like the last lot and then what?

Belly
1 I do not think the money went to pensioners overseas, or that any pensioner will take any cent in Australia or overseas.
According to ATO
You are eligible to receive the payment if:
your 2007-08 taxable income does not exceed $100,000
your adjusted tax liability for 2007-08 is greater than zero (that is, you paid tax) you lodge your 2007-08 tax return by 30 June 2009 or by the deferred date granted to you by the Tax Office, and
you were an Australian resident for tax purposes during the 2007-08 financial year.
http://www.ato.gov.au/corporate/content.asp?doc=/content/00178930.htm&page=2&H2
OK?
2.IT WAS NOT WRONG! The money went overseas to Australians who are overseas temporary, working, studiing, sick etc OR to people who was here on temporary visa with the right to work during their residency in Australia. Australia has signed agreements with many countries to give (both sides) temporary visa to young people with full?? working rights.(mainly European, UK, Greece, Italy, etc)
If Australian government decided to give the bonus to all persons who paid tax on 2007-2008, then Australia had to pay the bonus to temporary residents who paid tax on this year, In other case Australia would violate its agreement,
Australian Government and Australia (as country)honor their sign and are not at all cheap or dirty!
The 69.000 cheques sent over seas INDICATE THAT AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT AND AUSTRALIA (AS A COUNTRY) ARE VERY CREDIBLY AND HONOR THEIR SIGN.
I am very proud for these 69.000 cheques which will go overseas.
EVIVA AUSTRALIA, BRAVO ALP GOVERNMENT!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Tax bonus
Payments administered by Centrelink
Centrelink is responsible for administering the following payments:

Single income family bonus: 13 61 50

Farmers hardship bonus: 13 23 16

Back to school bonus: 13 61 50

Training and learning bonus: 13 24 90

If you are eligible for any of these payments Centrelink will deposit them directly into your bank account.
http://www.ato.gov.au/corporate/content.asp?doc=/content/00178930.htm&page=5&H5

I did not find anything, anywhere aboud the pensioners
Antonis

It reminds me of Borat when he thought that the the two old Jewish people had turned into cockroaches."Quick throw money at them!"
Kevin is no leader.He is the most pretentious leader we've had in our history.He has over reacted and has not inspired confidence in the nation.Costello is biding his time.

Arjay
Costello? Are you joking? Do not you know that we will have problems in the future of cause the new-conservative's policy last years?
Costello CAN NOT STAY IN DIFICULT DAYS. He will run every time we have a problem, AS HE DID AFTER THE LAST ELECTIONS.

My last post was wasted on some wasn't it?
The first round, now over, bought about this scandal, bought into the open this insanity.
In that round Australian pensioners got $1.400 for a married couple.
$900 or there abouts for a single pensioner, with me so far AS?
Calm down rechtub remember your blood pressure.
Arjay?, well ?get ready for ten more years of Rudd.
The strange lady, a left over from Simon Creans attempt to destroy the party, has to go.
She claims, and the very foolish will believe her, it is ok, it is just the way Australia has always had international agreements to pay overseas pensions.
Stimulate those who live in other country's?
If you had gone back to your place of birth AS say 25 years ago, and received an Australian pension you would be spending it now.
I am ashamed of her, yes she never thought about it, no she can not say it is ok
But rechtub, AS, Arjay, like it or not I remain proud of my government and sure of its future.
Costello?
you have to laugh,
rechtub you do have issues with the poor don't you?

Antonius and some others havn't a clue.
The money that went overseas to taxpayers will be those that have property
or share investments in Australia. Some will be Australians living
either temporarily or permanently overseas.

They should not get the money as it is intended to be put into
circulation here.

If the purpose is to get industry cranked up here, why didn't the
government just put it into a bank account.
The banks could have just lent it out.
It would not be going to China to pay for TVs.

Dear Belly, I remember getting a toy for Christmas, a plastic cash register, some plastic money and some “things to sell” so we could play shops. Our government is like a bunch of kids playing a pretend game of running the country. As with all kids they play out the game with imagination but no concept whatsoever of reality.

Act 1. Scene1.We have Ping Pong saying, let’s pretend you want to buy one of these.
Customer; What is it Ping Pong?
Ping; Well, it’s an ETS.
Customer; Oh goody, what does it do?
Ping; Well, it will add $11.8bn into general revenue in year one.
Customer; Oh good, how much will it cost me in Jobs, about $11.8bn I guess?
Ping; It won’t cost any jobs silly, because we will grow new jobs in the renewable energy sector.
Customer; Oh! I see, you mean if we can grow the renewable sector it will replace the jobs we won’t lose because of the ETS?
Ping; Exactly! Well, err! No, because we won’t lose any jobs so we won’t have to replace them.
Customer; so why mention jobs growth in renewable sector?
Ping; Look, it’s just a game, why can’t you just go along with this and stop asking silly questions, just “pretend” its real, OK?
Customer; OooohKaaaaay. But can I just ask, how will these renewable energy jobs we don’t need be made?
Ping; Well,”industry” of course, silly.
Customer; Look, I know this is silly to ask Ping, but don’t we have a global financial crisis, a credit crunch and even existing industry can’t get funds, so how will a new and speculative industry be able to start up?
Ping; I’m not playing with you any more.
Customer; Well do you have any other things I can buy?
Ping; well actually yes, how about this, we have a Stimulus Package, an IR thingy, an Education Revolution and an “End the Blame” game.
Customer: Are all these made by “Knee Jerk Pty Ltd”?
Ping; Right that’s it, if you can’t play nicely I’m not playing!

Curtain slowly descends.

Well with continued cuts to the public service more mistakes like this are bound to happen.

Particularly such as in this case, for agencies like Centrelink who have a high operational function and forever seem to be faced by staffing cuts usually from the frontline staff who are required to deal with members of the public. And then face the ire from the public when things go awry.

The senior executive end of the APS is rarely cut, the cuts are always made at the lower end where the service is provided.

The latest APSC report noted the rise in senior roles over the last years and the reduction in lower end staff. This is not an efficient way to run a public service, when the aim is to provide a public service.

That's very funny spindoc and very accurate.

The alternative energy industries are promising us 2-3 times the number of jobs created than other industries for every dollar spent too. A fall in productivity is the way to go apparently.

Belly to date nobody is blaming Rudd for the economic mess, but the minute unemployment rises after the enactment of the ETS and after the new IR laws come in, and after he raises taxes to pay for the handouts; this will begin to be seen as Kevins Recession.

Dear Belly,

The following website may clear some things up
for posters:

It's from the Sydney Morning Herald entitled:
"Thousands of foreigners splurge stimulus overseas."

http://www.smh.com.au/national/thousands-of-foreigners-splurge-stimulus-overseas-20090311-8vcg.html?page=1

69,000 cheques sent overseas,About $100.000 AUD.
Do you know how many millions of dollars win australian taxpayers each year from Australian pensioners who have lived out from Australia?
Do we give them rent assist? NO!
Do we give them water, elecricity, buss tickets etc? NO!
We we give them their medicine? No!
Do we give them money for hospitals, doctors, etc NO!
So we pay carers for them?No!
Can you estimate how many millions of dollars we win because some from our pensioners live overseas and not in Australia?
Do you think we can descriminate against them? Stimulus or not stimulus pack what we give to pensioners here the same we MUST give to our pensioners overseas.
Are we croocks? are we so cheap, so dirty to violate their rights for $100.000 dollars?
The Australian government IS RESPONSIBLE AND MATURE AND IT DID THE RIGHT THING, BUT MOST WRITERS OF THIS FORUM ARE NATIONALISTS AND DOES NOT CARE AT ALL FOR OUR PENSIONERS RIGHTS WHO LIVE OVERSEAS.
Now I understand why you do not use your real name,
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Dear Antonios,

Please read the website I gave.

It explains quite a few things - including why
the Government is doing what it is doing.
Also, don't make assumptions about other people,
especially people you know nothing about.
If you're for human rights - you should be
against 'labeling,' people.

You can't judge the majority, by the actions
of a few. But, I'm sure you know that.

Bazz the money went to over seas pensioners, I know of no scheme rewarding land or business owners.
Thanks Foxy I understand the issue and why it happened, no one has by the way admitted it was a mistake.
Public servants are not immune to job loss, some in fact are wage collectors not workers.
Their loss has nothing to do with this blunder.
It is a blunder.
AS, put down your copy of the socialist review and talk to me.
A package called stimulus, so named because it is intended to be spent within the Australian economy.
How do you tell me it should go to people all over the world? what help to us?
Mate can you once again address my question?
Why are you posts so different? even again in this thread a vast different is screaming that question.
Why are you so willing to take issue with Australia? yes we all do, we all have the right even duty to ask questions, I did with this thread.
But your last post was heated, and lacked understanding of this issue.
I want to cut no pension, none.
But to give Christmas presents this time of year in some very far away places is madness.

Belly said;
Bazz the money went to over seas pensioners, I know of no scheme rewarding land or business owners.

I understand that if you pay tax in Australia you get it.
There is no valid reason why the money should have gone out of the country.

The minister's excuse is just that an excuse.
Some one should lose their job over it.
Multi millions of dollars down the drain, for no reason whatsoever.

There can be no excuse !

rechtub you do have issues with the poor don't you?
No belly,I do not have issues with ALL THE POOR, just the lazy, good for nothing ones whos claimed poverty is self induced, and they still winge!

AS and belly, you both have strong arguments to this thread however I do have to agree with belly on this one, the stimulis was created to stimulate OUR ECCONOMY.

AS, if any of our over seas pensioners wished to move back for a period of time, say six months then they should have received the package, collected here to spend here.

Belly, as for your beloved Krud and crew, they have been in office for bearly one year with, no east temor, little action in either afganistan or irac yet in less than 18 months they have managed to turn our great ecconomy on its head.

Now, after having stopped the 'go-forward' they intend to further ruin our ecconomy by re-introducing some of the worst job crippling laws in modern history with thier intended IR overhaul.

Now once they have had thier fill of 'ecconomy bashing' and provided us with 'backward growth',huge deficits and record unemployment.
just remember, there are no more 'telstras' left to sell, so what then. God help us if your prediction of 10 years is right!

There are three things labor is famous for and will always be remembed for.
1. It's the recesion we had to have!
2. Unfair dismisal, protection of the laziest!
3. Huge deficits, high unemployment and backward growth.
( ALL 3 TROPHIES ARE IN THE LABOR PARTIES TROPHY CASE BY THE WAY)

It's a bit like the 'under arm ball', people who saw it will NEVR FORGET!

Of cause, as usual they blame someone else, this time it's the rest of the worlds fault.

Dear rehctub,

Liberals are going to be remembered for quite a
few things as well...

1) Not saying sorry to our Indigenous Australians.
2) Putting men, women and children behind barbed wires.
3) AWB scandal.
4) Workchoices. - taking away from working people the right
to preserve and protect their livelihoods.
5) The politics of money and power - an ideology of greed.
Leaving no room for social equity,compassion - or the idea
of an eglitarian society.
6) Attacking and blaming labor for everything -
but offering no solutions.
7) Constant party-infighting.
8) Looking for a Leader.
9) The belief that welfare is not good for business.
10) Destroying education, health (especially under Kennett
in Victoria).
11) Not signing Kyoto.
12) Sending troops to Iraq
13) Brown-nosing George W.
And the list goes on ...

Foxy, you forgot one very important point. They started from a very long run and got the ball rolling.

Also, I doubt there is one decent Aussie alive that is not sorry for what happened to the indiginous, however, as JH often said, "I am sorry for what happened but how can we appolagise for something we did not do".

) Putting men, women and children behind barbed wires.
Do you mean ILLEGAL IMIGRANTS? Arriving uninvited.

Then there is kyoto. Do you really think we can remain competetive in a global market if we are committed to kyoto but the large poluters are not?

As for sending troops, I hated the idea and still do.

I don't have much comment to make on IR laws as I have not worked for
an employer for 27 years but there is one thing I simply do not
understand;
Why would someone try and apply a law to retain their job if the
employer did not want them ?

Obviously in those circumstances you have no future in the company
so why not get out and find a job where you would be appreciated ?

If all employees could force their retention then it would not be
long before the company collapsed.

Bazz this mentality was born out of a public service union.I exist, therefore the world owes me a job under my conditions.Private enterprise provides the competitive efficiency for this mentality to exist and the unions want to bite the hand that feeds them.

80% of Union power exists in the pretend/wishful world of the Public Service.It is totally divorced from the reality of performance,efficiency and outcomes,hence we have all this over regulation stiffling the economy.

Come on Bazz I expect it from rechtub and Arjay but the thread has
nothing to do with IR laws, surely you want only to divert the subject?
And mate the simple fact is those checks, round one remember, are to pensioners.
AS calls for us to pay rent assistance and heaps more to people already living maybe very well, in other country's, I will always differ with him, so too should we all.
NO one, wish I could underline that, or italics, is not sick of wasted welfare, here or any place.
rechtub, sorry mate I have miss judged you,
From your first post I thought of you as unhappy but having good points and bad, that you lacked understanding at times but are no dill.
Sorry bloke I got it wrong, your krud rubbish, and blaming him for this financial crisis show starkly you are out of your depth, have no under standing of this issue, welfare issues or how hard life can be for the true poor.
Not one dollar of welfare should ever be wasted, note please this proud trade unionist, equally proud ALP member started this thread to kick the Kiber of one waster of air in my party.
Why, truth matters!

Dear Belly,

Of course truth matters.

I remember quite well our visit to Canberra
to Parliament's "Question Time." Of seeing
the Members of Parliament go through their
paces, and after wards of us doing a tour of
Parliament House. It was awesome. What a
privilege it must be to be an elected official.

Yet it's something that so many of them seem to
have forgotten.

Wouldn't it be great - if instead of playing
'politics,' Members of Parliament would all come
together to do 'good,' for us all? Wouldn't it
be great - if it no longer mattered whose idea it
was - if it's a good idea - let's all support it!

But, I guess I'm dreaming.

I look forward to the time when a few more individuals actually have a read of the law and move beyond the normal shallow and fragmented comments that have become all too common in this place.

Some of those overseas fall into the category of "severely" disabled, and have moved to places like India where they can afford their non PBS medication, ongoing treatment and live out the remainder of their days with some degree of dignity.

The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights guarantees "economic security and a decent standard of living" to these people but ugly australia only honours it to the extent that it is not inconsistent with either immigration or social security law.

Having spoken to some of this mob, I note that some still call Oz home, but have little choice in the matter from a financial perspective.

So, personally, having regard also to the pensioners who in no insignificant manner built this cuntry with their blood, sweat and tears, the BlakFellas enslaved and classified as animals who helped to open it up and reveal its secrets, the knowingly and deliberately nuked vets amongst others who defended it, exactly what do they get for a financial security solution?

I should like to see a serious thread detailing the current australian standard and what people get for their $500approx a fortnight after a lifetime of service.

Of course, juxtaposition from history may help some. The likes of Adolph and those on the p!ss with him in the pre WWII olympics perhaps would prescribe to gas, burn and turn them into fertiliser.

Hey? How about the current solution. Just let the current crazies (pardon me) walk around wacked and psychotic on jap/german WWII Ice drug derivative (see Wikipedia for more info) and if they go sick and become violent, just put em down with an illegal hollow point to the chest,

AND

now let's all say Lordies Prayer before guvment starts .. what a sick joke.

Well belly, you got me there mate, I was playing politician then. It is what every poli does, they blame all the worlds problems on the sitting party. Mind you, I still feel the money would have been better spent on job creation. The first round was a flop, unless of cause you count the short term pub/club staff that were required to handle the huge splash of cash that came out of the blue.

So here we go again.

While on politics, our qld premier has a slogon 'let's keep qld strong'. Wow! i would hate to see what she and the labor party calls 'weak'! Hopefully we won't have to get to that.

And mate, I can asure you I am no dill. I have answered most of your questions in all posts, something you seem to be very good at avoiding. I also admit when I am wrong, another weakness you and most labor/unionists lack, all because you are usually one eyed, union labor lovers.

Take a good hard look around mate, the small business employers of this ecconomy (THE BACKBONE) are trying desparely to warn you guys of the consequences of your intened actions, you just won't admit that your beloved leaders/leaderess have got it wrong.

Remember, you lot have been warned!

Now I have to go so I can help the other 58%ers pay the bills tomorrow.

Further, I personally find it shameful to hear these shriekers of the catch cry "welfare bludgers" etc when in reality, some of you clearly have got little idea what a society without

SOCIAL SECURITY

is like. The Indos for example are a great one for it with their prinsep (principal) of "cari sendiri"

(search individually - search by yourself - search for $ by yourself)

and it leads to situations where well, if u can't sell your house or rice field to the local "baron" in order to pay the $ grubbers at the hospital when yr crook, then you die. Yes, emporor nasi goreng and too many rabbits.

And not to overly digress but U know where they go then don't U. Straight into the Loving arms of the hard liners. (and this is of course just the tip of the ice berg)

So, I ask you, given their airports don't make the grade and neither do their maintenance routines as a collective, and yes whilst I am not an expert I did earn an UnRestricted Private Pilot's License at Bankstown, why is that Garuda gets multi daily flights in and out of Bali/Oz but QANTAS no longer bothers and JetStar/Virgin only get a couple of flights a week? So, before you start running off at the mouth about $ haemoraging on pensioners, I would suggest ...

VOTE 1 - Green Browny for PreZ

One of the oldest tricks in the book of Noddy control is to tell the poor white australian "trash" that the blakfellas are going to get more than them on better conditions, and watch u all fall upon one another and run about frothing at the mouth and nashing your teeth.

And well, spiritually speaking, until such a time as other wise,

"Our Lord Satan's Will be done."

Holy, Holy, Holy
Thank __ck the BlakFellas aren't pommies or fundies or faerie folk.

rechtub, is it not clear this thread is evidence I am not one eyed?
Dream on, how many blaks did I kill? or take land from?
IF we look at those you highlight living over seas what percentage are they in this 69.000?
Emotional words but as useless as udders on a bull.
NO ONE none of us, has said over seas pensions should stop, in fact if we stop waste in welfare we can give a living pension to EVERY one.
The was to help this country, to be spent here, to both give back to them and our economy.
Foxy yes you are right but the game played in Parliament will never change, did you see Costello?
Yesterday Obama, a great and historic leader complemented Rudd on his actions in stimulating our economy.
Rudd still leads the polls, by enough to increase his majority and wound conservatives for years to come.
We should remember that, the voices raised here are minority ones.
unions and the slander shown here are nothing to do with the thread, just a weak unfocused way insult me rather than debate the issue.
one eyed unionists rechtub? give me some insights into the wrongs of your mob.

NO ONE none of us, has said over seas pensions should stop, in fact if we stop waste in welfare we can give a living pension to EVERY one.
Yee Haa, woudn't that be great. Just what I have been wishing for for years, bring it on!

By the way, at no time did I say that OS persions should stop, in fact, if you had opened your mind you would have noticed that I agreed with you that only pensioners living here should receive the cash splash.

Yesterday Obama, a great and historic leader
You're kidding, he hasn't even worn the plastic coating off his chair yet, how can you call him a 'great' leader, historic yes, but this is only due to his color, nothing more. For the record, I would have voted for him if I was given the chance but let him prove himself hey.

re read my last post rechtub, clearly I said no one had said over seas pensions should stop so what is your issue?
Yes I noted you agreed with me on that point is it not true most would?
I did start the thread to question insanity sending it was bad, defending it shameful.
I expect better from my team but worse from this foolish lady, she has form for getting it wrong.

Why shouldnt the overseas Australians not get the $9oo odd dollars?

So its ok if someone gets the money here then leaves for a an overseas destination?
Did those o'seas Aussies not work hard to serve the country and contribute ?
How about holding it for them till they returned?Would that make you whingers any happier?

socratease

What do you mean till they return?
Before you put your paddle in the water understanding of the issue would help.
In country's all over the world, we pay pensions to those who live over seas, some returned home, past story's say and live very well on better pensions that others in those country's.
We have people here who get over seas pensions or part there of.
Few are planning to return, few ever do.
So maybe you need to re think your blast, it miss fired.
STIMULUS an agreed amount given with the hope and intention it will be spent, soon, here in Australia.
This country is the one we want to stimulate.
In fact we gave this money away, took it out of our economy.
I still want to know why?
no intent to question over seas pensioners just common sense why?

socratease,
Why shouldnt the overseas Australians not get the $9oo odd dollars?
As belly says, it was intended to stimulate our ecconomy, here and now. They should be welcome to return if they wish to collect it and spend it now.

Unfortunately Krud got it wrong the first time by handing out cash and here he is making the same mistake again.

There is a solution to this, put simply, DON'T HAND OUT CASH!

Why can't the government issue special debit cards with a credit balance of X$ depending on your circumatances.

Now these cards can't buy grog, cigs and can't be used to withdraw cash or pay off bills and, have a 'use by date'. Then, if the money is not spent wisely within a certain time frame, the credit simply lappes and the card is useless. You either spend the money to stimulate the ecconomy, or you forefit it!

Any problems with this idea?

rehctub
so if they returned they'd be entitled to their stimulus package and then take it out ! That ok for you? it still neednt be spewnt in australia

socratease

The world seen by your eyes rechtub must be a dreadful sight.
this first round was to pensioners.
We know of no miss payments in the second round,,yet.
That round has not yet fully rolled out, yes kids got money in the first round.
Some of that would have been miss spent, maybe on grog smokes poker machines.
But you seem to see a world others do not, our pensioners out on the town, drinking.
Your idea of serving up cards that allow goods to be bought only is weird, in fact like Socrates's well away from my real world.
I know of pensioners who paid rates with it, fact is our pensioners are not second grade people.
In one swoop you want to introduce one of the most controversial actions of the [much needed] NT intervention to every person who is on welfare?

socratease,Read the post!

Belly, my Dad was a labor man and a unionist right to the bone, so I know why you are so one eyed, you have been brain washed mate.
You wrote'
I know of pensioners who paid rates with it,
Ok, I have no problem with ligit bills.

My mother is a single pensioner with a life savings of around $60K (that's about $1,000 per year of Dads working life) and the house they owned.

She now lives quite a comfortable life enjoying lawn bowls, in fact she is now starting to travel and guess what! Appart from the $20K she withdrew to buy a new car four years ago, she still has her life savings. Why? Because she dose not WASTE HER MONEY. No grog, no cigs and no gambling. And she will be so grateful for any pension increase as it will allow her to spend just a little extra on the grandkids.

Now she does not pay for meat but that is the least I can do. After all, she and Dad when through some pretty rough times to give us a decent upbringing. It's a shame many today won't have that opportunity as the intended funding for their upbringing is being either lit up, pissed away or squeesed into a slot machine.

Until we stop handing out CASH, little will change.

One more point. Imagine giving your child say $30 on Monday for their weeks tuckshop money only to find out they wasted it on pnone credit and ring tones.

Well this is what is happening IN MANY CASES to tax payers money.

Welfare was always intended to support peoples needs. Gambling, cigs and grog are WANTS, not NEEDS!

And remember, every dollar of welfare that goes to these was a dollar intended for the needs of families.

Now if you disagree with that then you are simply blind!

Was your dad then one eyed rechtub?
Or do you want to tell me the reality's he lived with are different from todays?
In starting this thread it was my intention to remind my ALP we expect better.
Starting threads such as 33% wage rise was and forever is to remind the too vocal loony left minority of the union movement they are often very wrong.
Hardly evidence for being one eyed is it?
today just like every single day in my job, I took no scalps.
made zero threats, excepted an invitation from a very large firm to inspect traffic control plans based on my training and understanding, at no cost set changes in place.
A unionist does not spend his/her time plotting to over throw the ruling class, in fact we often are the bosses.
two members left with our best wishes to take up rolls in management, one an ex police man was my delegate, he will go far his hard work and honesty his commitment to do it once do it right will see to that.
this took place in the last day of last week and today, no two headed unionist here mate no one eyed ones either.

Belly, he was your typical one eyed unionists through and through. Labor to the core and beyond. He hated the day I voted for JH but that was only after my favourite PM was kicked out by the imfamous 'the recesion we have to have' PK.